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Homecoming Should they push things back?

How much would Sony be willing to take? The last two movies made 1.4 billion. Spider-Man is the 3rd most iconic superhero on the planet.

How much would Disney pay? They are making a fortune without Spider-Man and have mapped out the next 5 years.
Whatever they pay for Spidey they'll make back after a few solo movies plus whatever boost he brings to the Avengers/crossover movies. Once he's paid off they'll have another billion dollar superhero to add to their collection.
 
Anyone remember Django Unchained the scene of how King and Django plan on getting Broomhillda free?

You don't get up to someone and say we want the cow on their free. You make an offer so ridiculous like go up to him and want to buy the farm.

Disney buy Sony and fire Avi. You get Spidey back.
 
Anyone remember Django Unchained the scene of how King and Django plan on getting Broomhillda free?

You don't get up to someone and say we want the cow on their free. You make an offer so ridiculous like go up to him and want to buy the farm.

Disney buy Sony and fire Avi. You get Spidey back.
I don't think they're that aggressive... That would be wild though.
 
Things are not looking good for Sony.

2015
AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON
ANT-MAN

2016
CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR
DOCTOR STRANGE
Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice
Suicide Squad

2017
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY 2
THOR: RAGNAROK
BLACK PANTHER
Wonder Woman
Justice League Part I

2018
AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR PART I
CAPTAIN MARVEL
INHUMANS
The Flash
Aquaman


2019
AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR PART II
Shazam
Justice League Part II

With a dwindling BO and decreasing interest in 'their' Spider-Man franchise, they have a lot to compete with over the next few years. Whatever they intend to do to regain that interest with Spidey, they have some serious work ahead. I don't think it is impossible to turn this around but I also don't have much faith in them at the moment.
 
This is Sony's reaction to the DCU announcement:

i-give-up.gif


This is Sony's reaction to the MCU announcement:

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Looking at the schedule I don't think things are as dire as people are trying to make it out...

First, if you can be honest with yourselves then you will agree that Sony is making money with Spiderman. That means that there is no way, ever, that Sony would sell the franchise back unless Disney was willing to pay over the top dollar, which I can't see them doing.

So that's pretty much it, Sony is keeping Spiderman. Lets deal with and accept it and move on...

It makes much more sense to come out with another Spiderman movie, based on the set up from TASM1 and 2 (and not reboot), which keeps Garfield and Sally, with cameos from Emma (in either nightmare sequences or as a plot device used by the villains). If they planned the release correctly it would be able to compete and again, make Sony a lot of money.

So lets look at the 2016 CBM release dates:

February 12: Deadpool (Fox)

Anyone else totally psyched?

March 25: Batman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice

I'll see it, but this is another one I'm not totally sold on. Aflack as Batman, really?

May 6: Captain America: Civil War (new sub-title)

Yup, wouldn't want to be up against this.

May 27: X-Men: Apocalypse (Fox)

Or this! Please give me a young Nightcrawler!

July 8: (originally reserved by Marvel Studios but no mention made during Marvel's 10/28 event)

Hmmm...

August 5: Suicide Squad

Not so convinced that this one will be a big deal. Most people will say "who?"

November 4: Doctor Strange (new addition)

Will crush S6 if they keep their November 11th opening date, or unless they change it to a Spiderman movie. Cumberbach should be amazing!

November 11: Sinister Six (Sony)

So here's the thing...

The GA (which is where the profits come from) knows Spiderman. Some know of the S6 because of what was set up in TASM2, but they don't know them that well. What the GA wants (and frankly what most of us fanboys want) is a Spiderman movie with Peter Parker going up against one of his major villains (like Kraven or Mysterio), dealing with his family, school and work issues (Daily Bugle), and his personal relationships (MJ and Black Cat at this point).

The truth is that Sony can still do a lot with where they are at. Some people above say screw it, they have messed up things so badly that they should just quit. First, as explained above, it's not happening. But second, what have they done that is that bad?

- Yes, it appears that Norman is dead. Yes, most of us would rather have Norman as Green Goblin, but at this point, whatever. At least they didn't turn Norman into Venom or make him have sex with Gwen!

- Yes, there are some things that are not resolved, but is that really that bad of a thing? Yes, the Peter's parents story is not yet fully resolved, but they can either leave that one alone for now, or they could integrate it into the next story and resolve it. Actually, with the right villains (Cameleon or Mysterio) they could make it a main plot point (just imagine Peter seeing his father and what that would do to him mentally).

- Is there too many subplots? Maybe so, which kind of goes along with the above point. But again, they can either leave some be for now, or go ahead and make them a part of the story and resolve them in this next one.

- The villains have been sub-par. Yes, this may be the biggest issue with this series, but if they focus they can fix this. This is one of the reasons why I'm all for focusing on one or two villains, and not going with the Six! See, if it was a story about Kraven and maybe Cameleon then you get a focused story. Yes, maybe Kraven was hired by the Gentleman or the Goblin, but the focus could be on the main villain. IMO, Rhino wasn't that great and that last scene was stupid, and although Jamie Foxx is an amazing actor (as is Giamatti) his over the top performance of Dillon almost ruined the movie for me. A Mech Rhino was just stupidity, and although I ended up liking the look of Electro in the end, Dillon was so pitiful it ruined the character and the story for me. The Villain(s) need to be done right this time.

- These movies seem to be just setting up future movies. Well yes, that is the drawback to a franchise, sometimes too much goes into setting up the future. Marvel got it right cause they were able to use numerous movies to set up their one big one, which worked. It allowed the GA to meet all of the individuals before they were brought together. But that isn't possible in the Spiderman franchise. But, they've done enough setting up so hopefully the next one can minimize that and focus on the story of Spiderman and his main villain!

So IMO what Sony should do is:

1. Schedule their next movie for July 2016 (seems to be an open date) with just enough inbetween time from X-Men and this Suicide Squad thing.
2. Make it a Spiderman movie and not some movie focused on villains redeeming themselves. The GA knows Spiderman, so focus on him. Everything hinges on Sony realizing this!
3. Keep Garfield for this one. Truth is he wasn't that bad (much better than Macguire IMO). I still have nightmares where Toby is dancing!
4. Use Emma through either nightmares or as a plot device. She still has star power and most would like to see her. And lets be honest, part of the story still needs to be Peter's guilt.
5. Have Black Cat in the movie as a sexual tension plot point to add to everything Peter is dealing with. The difference is that she is flirting with Spiderman, not Peter.
6. Introduce MJ, but don't allow it to become romantic yet. Do that too soon and it will be ruined. Also, who they cast for MJ will be very critical! They need the 616 MJ so she's different than Gwen. Effectively make her a friend for now and one that Peter can go too to help deal with his issues. At the same time he must (for now) keep his secret from her.
7. Focus on the villains. Have one main and maybe one minor, with the Gentleman and/or GG in the background.
8. Don't go for the big one yet, which means hold off on the S6 to give more time for the setup and don't go for Venom, though Eddie Brock can be introduced. Good candidates would be Kraven and his brother Cameleon, or (and I think many of you would love this) Mysterio
9. Give us what we want as far as Peter's school and work, which means lets see him at school (Professor Warren) and lets see the Bugle, but a little less campy this time.
10. Set up the future Spiderman movies (and not villain spin-off movies) through specific plot points (like Eddie Brock falling from grace) and through mid/post credit scenes (the S6 training with Doc Ock as the leader).

I'm willing to bet that if they went with Kraven or better yet, Mysterio as the main villain more of you would be willing to give it a chance?
 
That was a really good read, Jim.

That said, I still want to see a movie from villains perspective.
I think the star power of Suicide Squad will tie the hands of the director for that movie but Goddard has free reign (you'd hope) to turn in a villain movie that surprises.
 
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Ayer worked with Brad Pitt on Fury. Fury's also one of the best films I've seen all year.

Ayer's gonna kill it on Suicide Squad. I trust the dude who's done Fury, End of Warch, and wrote Training Day over Goddard bc Sony will not let Goddard be free. WB greenlit a David S Goyer Superman script so I doubt they wouldn't give Ayer freedom.
 
Ayer worked with Brad Pitt on Fury. Fury's also one of the best films I've seen all year.

Ayer's gonna kill it on Suicide Squad. I trust the dude who's done Fury, End of Warch, and wrote Training Day over Goddard bc Sony will not let Goddard be free. WB greenlit a David S Goyer Superman script so I doubt they wouldn't give Ayer freedom.

I hope Suicide Squad is good seeing as I am going to pay money to see it. I'm simply saying star power may hamper a relatively inexperienced director. I'll take your word on Fury as war movies aren't my thing.
 
So IMO what Sony should do is:

1. Schedule their next movie for July 2016 (seems to be an open date) with just enough inbetween time from X-Men and this Suicide Squad thing.
2. Make it a Spiderman movie and not some movie focused on villains redeeming themselves. The GA knows Spiderman, so focus on him. Everything hinges on Sony realizing this!
3. Keep Garfield for this one. Truth is he wasn't that bad (much better than Macguire IMO). I still have nightmares where Toby is dancing!
4. Use Emma through either nightmares or as a plot device. She still has star power and most would like to see her. And lets be honest, part of the story still needs to be Peter's guilt.
5. Have Black Cat in the movie as a sexual tension plot point to add to everything Peter is dealing with. The difference is that she is flirting with Spiderman, not Peter.
6. Introduce MJ, but don't allow it to become romantic yet. Do that too soon and it will be ruined. Also, who they cast for MJ will be very critical! They need the 616 MJ so she's different than Gwen. Effectively make her a friend for now and one that Peter can go too to help deal with his issues. At the same time he must (for now) keep his secret from her.
7. Focus on the villains. Have one main and maybe one minor, with the Gentleman and/or GG in the background.
8. Don't go for the big one yet, which means hold off on the S6 to give more time for the setup and don't go for Venom, though Eddie Brock can be introduced. Good candidates would be Kraven and his brother Cameleon, or (and I think many of you would love this) Mysterio
9. Give us what we want as far as Peter's school and work, which means lets see him at school (Professor Warren) and lets see the Bugle, but a little less campy this time.
10. Set up the future Spiderman movies (and not villain spin-off movies) through specific plot points (like Eddie Brock falling from grace) and through mid/post credit scenes (the S6 training with Doc Ock as the leader).

I'm willing to bet that if they went with Kraven or better yet, Mysterio as the main villain more of you would be willing to give it a chance?

I'm skeptical about introducing Brock and MJ for now unless they help the story push the story along in a specific way and they aren't just 'cameo' roles.
Everything else, however, I agree with. Is it too late for them to start writing a script for TASM3? I shouldn't think so.
 
Sinister Six now has to deal with Dr. Strange, King Kong Origin: Skull Island and the Harry Potter spin-off. I doubt they keep that date. The other question would be, where would they move it to? Not a lot of options if you ask me.
 
^ I believe they should move it up by 1 or 2 months. You're right that the Cumberbach featured Doctor Strange movie will be a bit difficult to compete against. In reality Spiderman is way more known to the GA than Doctor Strange, but Avengers and Disney will hype the heck out of it.

If they move it up to somewhere between September and October then they have almost no competition for that time. All that is happening around that time is:

The August 5th Suicide Squad, which I'm not so sure the GA will care that much about. And in the end, if they reschedule for September or October, it will be enough time inbetween that this Suicide Squad movie will have died down a bit, making the release of Spiderman the big thing.

Of course, this is all hinged on Sony waking up and realizing that their Spiderman movies need to be about Spiderman and have Spiderman in the title. A movie about the villains is (barring Suicide Squad) stupid!!!!!

Any chance we can convince Disney to purchase Sony?????????
 
Well...nobody thought Guardians Of The Galaxy would have been as successful as it was. A Suicide Squad movie could do the same thing and surprise you. I personally believe they just need to make TASM3 with Sinister Six and get it over with. They need to focus on making a good Spider-man movie first. These spin-offs are an insult and a slap in the face to most Spider-Man fans
 
Honestly, the title excluding Spider-Man or the movie in general having only a Spidey cameo isn't what's going to hurt it.

These spinoffs are becoming trendy and are becoming more and more favorable by the general audience. Sooner or later, whether it's Marvel or Sony, someone is going to eventually go in the direction where the main superhero of the series doesn't play a dominant role in a spinoff.

It all depends on the marketing of the story, which Sony needs to appeal to the public. If this series was a smashing hit thus far, I don't think many people would be concerned about Spidey's role in S6. Conversely, even though the series isn't doing that well right now, I don't think it makes a difference whether or not Spidey has a premiere role in S6.

A compelling story will be what either makes S6 a hit or a miss. I still believe "The Sinister Six," generally, is a name that rolls of the tongue well and is enough to spark some kind of interest for the film. Furthermore, with the amount of superhero films coming out in the next couple of years, I believe there will be a seed planted in the general audience that makes superhero films more of an interest. Regardless of the studio, who knows? Maybe the hype around superhero films might benefit new releases to an extent, even if the public isn't too fond of some characters.

Unlike TASM2, Sony just needs to focus on letting Goddard make a stand alone film that will focus well on each of the characters involved. They need to bring back the congruence of the plot that was felt in TASM1 (in my opinion), and if the story is great, it'll lead into TASM3 itself.
 
The only compelling story that can work for the Sinister Six is one where they are the villains going against Spiderman!!!!!

Spiderman is what the GA cares about!

Peter Parker is the person who the GA feels for. Not some villain or group of villains, no matter how much they may feel remorse.

Think about this...

Why should the GA care about the Rhino? He's a murderer and a mobster. All the GA wants to see is him get his arse handed to him by Spiderman.

Same with Electro. Yes, Maxx Dillon wasn't a bad man, though he was a bad character (sorry Jamie Foxx, but it's true). But he turned into a monster and a bully who tried to kill people. No redeption there, sorry.

Doc Ock is going to likely be some scietist dude wearing the harness, so the only route to redeption is that he's in it for the science. Sorry, if you're a villain, whether you're doing it for the science or not, the GA just doesn't like you. He may look cool, and hopefully he'll be the leader, but the GA will not want him to be redeemed, unless it means him sacrificing himself for the greater good, which goies against who these people are!

The point is that no one cares about these villains trying to be good guys, or trying to be redeemed. There is no redeption for them. All we want is to see them go after Spiderman, causing him more problems and difficult choices than ever before, with the end product being that he beats their arses!

So no Sinister Six movie where it's not a Spiderman movie, thank you. Sony, wisen up and give us what we deserve, which is a Spiderman movie with the Sinister Six as the straight out villains!!! Plain and simple!!!
 
I think they should split TASM3 into 2 parts for the Sinister Six.
 
I'm with Levi. Cancel everything and sell to the MCU.
I'm with you guys.. just give up Sony, and sell the rights back to Marvel.

Or work out some kind of deal with them.
 
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Things are not looking good for Sony.

Lol, things are not looking good for anyone, tbh.

I really have never witnessed anything on the scale Marvel Studios are going at it right now.

It's almost ridiculous.
 
Marvel Studios just pimped slapped everybody wearing the Gauntlet
 
I'm skeptical about introducing Brock and MJ for now unless they help the story push the story along in a specific way and they aren't just 'cameo' roles.
Everything else, however, I agree with. Is it too late for them to start writing a script for TASM3? I shouldn't think so.

Spider-Man doesn't need EBJ any more. I have just read the Flash incarnation of the Venom character and he is infinitely more interesting than the EBJ drooling idiot Venom.
 
I disagree completely about Sinister Six. You can make ANYTHING compelling and engaging with good story telling. Be honest, who was interested in a Magneto solo movie? But the Magneto opening was the best thing about X:FC and I could have watched a whole movie with just that character hunting Nazis.

So you can say Sinister Six will have trouble attracting attention in a busy winter, that's fair. But saying Sinister Six wont be interesting is just negative speculation based on what Sony has done in the past and to be fair Sony's recent track record has been great. Brilliant direction and writing is what Sony needs to make a compelling and engaging story with interesting characters.

Basically what I am saying is you can't say the general audience wont be interested in a movie about villains that has no Spider-Man. The audience will watch whatever you tell them to watch with creative marketing. Once they are sat in the cinema it is up to you to keep them engaged and you do that with compelling villains. If the audience are engaged with a compelling story and interesting characters then they will forget all about Spider-Man's connection to the villains. Guardians is a perfect example of a totally foreign concept striking a cord with the general audience. The Marvel brand brought them to the cinema but it was the characters and story that made the movie a success.

People are talking about wanting movies to fail. I am going to be paying good money to see pretty much every comic book movie out there so first and foremost I want to see GOOD movies. After that, whatever happens with regards to Spider-Man's ownership, happens.
 
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I think for S6 to work alot of elements have to come into play beyond a good story. Sony has to be willing to allow the filmmakers to make a good story. Sony has micromanged the hell out of the last three films which has been to the detriment to the quality of the stories. Good story isn't enough if Sony is gonna demand changes and shift things around because they suddenly wanna take the franchise into another direction.

Beyond that you're gonna need compelling characters and not every Spiderman villain is gonna be compelling no matter what backstory or actor you get to play the part. Sandman, Rhino, Electro are pretty one note villains and don't really have much there there beyond their abilities. I know fans don't like to hear that ,but I don't believe this idea that ANY character can be made compelling depending on the script. You need villains who have to potential to be compelling at least not just using them for the sake of being in the comics.

You're also gonna need some dynamic actors who can bring something to the characters beyond what's on the page. They odviously don't need to be big names but they're gonna need more Alfred Molina's, William Defoe's, and Rhys Ifans's.

As far as the story goes, I still not convinced that the s6 redemption story minus Spiderman with its ties to ASM 2 is truly gonna be interesting enough for the GA to keep going back time and time again. I just don't see it. Now, the rumored Spidey teaming up with his worse foes to face a greater threat can work I think and has a much greater potential for good storytelling.

I do think the rumored new S6 story could work given the right story and talent.
 

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