Wonder Woman 1984 General Discussion and Speculation

[Willi Berg]

And at the end of the movie, as the disguise starts to fall apart, and Wonder Woman is looking at him, and then for a brief cut it is Steve with Pedro's head, and she does a doubletake and it's back to Steve's head, and she is like, "What's going on; I thought I saw something." And he's like, "who, me?" And it's kind of creepy and chilling in its own way.

I'm experiencing something similar right now where I see Pedro Pascal changing from Maxwell Lord to Doctor Psycho and back again and I don't know which one is real.

 

[TheUndertaker]

Making Steve be someone else would be rapey, and making him be a complete illusion could be awkward when you think about how she would be talking to herself and stuff...

Anyway, I wasn't betting on Maxwell Lord because honestly he's not a Wonder Woman villain at all, and he didn't used to be a villain for some time. Yeah, they made her break his neck, but that was some forced stuff. I never discarded the possibility though because Johns is involved. Will she break his neck? Apparently that's what 'comics fans' want...

Besides, I have no idea how they'll incorporate Cheetah with this.
Also, apparently Max Lord has light mind reading abilities. This is how he could learn about Steve. Or he doesn't even know what he is projecting in Diana's mind. I don't remember if he knew he was making Superman specifically see Doomsday in WW.

 

[Willi Berg]

Making Steve be someone else would be rapey, and making him be a complete illusion could be awkward when you think about how she would be talking to herself and stuff...

Anyway, I wasn't betting on Maxwell Lord because honestly he's not a Wonder Woman villain at all, and he didn't used to be a villain for some time. Yeah, they made her break his neck, but that was some forced stuff. I never discarded the possibility though because Johns is involved. Will she break his neck? Apparently that's what 'comics fans' want...

Besides, I have no idea how they'll incorporate Cheetah with this.
Also, apparently Max Lord has light mind reading abilities. This is how he could learn about Steve. Or he doesn't even know what he is projecting in Diana's mind. I don't remember if he knew he was making Superman specifically see Doomsday in WW.

Do you think it's an alternate timeline?

It could be a mass delusion, where her talking to Steve is no big deal, since everyone is acting strange, and there are cows running around etc.

Oh gee another neck snap...

 

[valmont]

Pedro Pascal sure looks like Maxwell Lord.

He is a manipulator who has access to Brother Eye, some kind of a surveillance system...it seems coherent with the title, 1984 (Big Brother/Brother Eye...) and the omnipresent screens.

The character could be a TV pundit who manipulates people via mass media.
Remember how he framed Diana for his murder? She did killed him, but it was necessary, the video that he created (and broadcasted via Brother Eye) made it look like a cold blooded assassination.
Thing is, in this story WW was very famous, while she is not in this period of the DCEU, maybe he want to expose her or something.

It could also be Glorious Godfrey, who also touches upon these thematics, but I really doubt it's him.

But I am still hoping that he is Dr Psycho because he is a classic WW villain.

That's it for the wild speculations.

 

[ileg01]

Who do you think Gabriella Wilde will be playing?

 

[valmont]

Honestly, I have no idea, at first she gave me a Silver Swan vibe (either the Alexandros or Beaudry version once transformed), but yeah...right now, I just don't know.
She might end up being no one. Remember the model Doutzen Kroes in the first film? Some people thought she'd be an important character, turns out she was just an amazon with barely 3 lines.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Making Steve be someone else would be rapey, and making him be a complete illusion could be awkward when you think about how she would be talking to herself and stuff...

Anyway, I wasn't betting on Maxwell Lord because honestly he's not a Wonder Woman villain at all, and he didn't used to be a villain for some time. Yeah, they made her break his neck, but that was some forced stuff. I never discarded the possibility though because Johns is involved. Will she break his neck? Apparently that's what 'comics fans' want...

Besides, I have no idea how they'll incorporate Cheetah with this.
Also, apparently Max Lord has light mind reading abilities. This is how he could learn about Steve. Or he doesn't even know what he is projecting in Diana's mind. I don't remember if he knew he was making Superman specifically see Doomsday in WW.

Why would it be as you stated "rape"? Why assume that Diana and "Steve" in this film will be intimate onscreen as they were in WW, and for that matter why put a limitation on the evil actions of the villain? Seems arbitrary. Notice I stated actions not how they are shown. It's one thing in these type of films to show one character kill someone. For the most part I think you can get graphic with it only to a degree. You won't see someone torn limb from blood limb in a mainstream CBM let's say.

 

[ileg01]

Honestly, I have no idea, at first she gave me a Silver Swan vibe (either the Alexandros or Beaudry version once transformed), but yeah...right now, I just don't know.
She might end up being no one. Remember the model Doutzen Kroes in the first film? Some people thought she'd be an important character, turns out she was just an amazon with barely 3 lines.

I don't know but perhaps she will be used as CGI Cheetah version of Kristen Wiig? Like a body double? I don't know the comic backgrounds, does Minerva have the power to becoming younger when she is transformed as Cheetah? So Gabriella would fit the youth and athlethism and would be equal to Gals Wonder Woman.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I saw Natasha Rothwell in Love, Simon a couple of days ago and she was great in it.

She's got a lot of sass and she can be very funny.

I have zero idea who she is playing in here but I think it'll be a good and inspired casting decision from Jenkins.

 

[valmont]

I don't know but perhaps she will be used as CGI Cheetah version of Kristen Wiig? Like a body double? I don't know the comic backgrounds, does Minerva have the power to becoming younger when she is transformed as Cheetah? So Gabriella would fit the youth and athlethism and would be equal to Gals Wonder Woman.

No, she does not have that power. She is "empowered" by the god Urzkartaga, when transformed she has strength, super senses, extremely sharp claws, super speed...
I really doubt that she is a double.

 

[Dufusyte]

The Captain Wonder storyline was published in 1984, so they might be doing that story, except swapping in Maxwell Lord for Dr. Psycho, just because Max fits the 80's theme better.

In that case, Silver Swan is in (and will be so cool to see on screen).

Didn't someone say Wonder Woman will wear a new battle armor in WW1984? That would be the gold armor with wings, so she can fly around battling Silver Swan (even though WW does not need wings, but two winged combatants would look cool, I guess).

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

If they did the golden eagle armor I would be over the moon.

 

[TheUndertaker]

Why would it be as you stated "rape"? Why assume that Diana and "Steve" in this film will be intimate onscreen as they were in WW, and for that matter why put a limitation on the evil actions of the villain? Seems arbitrary. Notice I stated actions not how they are shown. It's one thing in these type of films to show one character kill someone. For the most part I think you can get graphic with it only to a degree. You won't see someone torn limb from blood limb in a mainstream CBM let's say.

I don't think they would be "intimate" so to speak but I think there was a photo from when they were filming on the Watergate balcony where they seemed pretty close to each other, almost like about to kiss

And I'm just assuming that would not sit well with a lot of people

The Captain Wonder storyline was published in 1984, so they might be doing that story, except swapping in Maxwell Lord for Dr. Psycho, just because Max fits the 80's theme better.

In that case, Silver Swan is in (and will be so cool to see on screen).

Didn't someone say Wonder Woman will wear a new battle armor in WW1984? That would be the gold armor with wings, so she can fly around battling Silver Swan (even though WW does not need wings, but two winged combatants would look cool, I guess).

We really don't need another case of 3 villains.

And Gabriella Wilde could be young Barbara, although I don't think she looks enough like Kristen Wiig.

 

[Dufusyte]

Luke and Leia kissed, and they are brother and sister.

 

[Thome216]

If it features an epic Amazon battle (with 2000 women of athletic build), I hope they *win*.

The beach battle of the first film appeared to be a tie, casualty-wise (and am never quite sure why the big German gunships don't open fire and bombard the beach while the Amazons are chatting with Pine after the initial landing); the battle with Steppenwolf in JL appeared to be a fiasco with the entire Amazonian army being slaughtered one by one by a single foe. So the Amazons need a victory. And if they can't win a battle in a Wonder Woman movie, then they probably never will.

Come on, Amazons! Win one!!

There was just one cruiser with the long boats deployed, and it was sinking before the battle even began. Ran onto the rocks.

Me too. The scenes on Themyscira were wonderful. And I really want to forget about the Amazonian slaughter in Justice League.

At least all the Amazons didn't die in that scene. Reinforcements were showing up though they would not have made much of a difference against Steppenwolf.

However, recouping those casualties may be impossible for the Amazons considering the zero birthrate they have going. They really should start sending parties out on (man)hunts.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I don't think they would be "intimate" so to speak but I think there was a photo from when they were filming on the Watergate balcony where they seemed pretty close to each other, almost like about to kiss

And I'm just assuming that would not sit well with a lot of people



We really don't need another case of 3 villains.

And Gabriella Wilde could be young Barbara, although I don't think she looks enough like Kristen Wiig.

Uh... Shouldn't the villain be doing things that don't sit well with the audience?

After all... They are villains, no?

 

[Thome216]

Luke and Leia kissed, and they are brother and sister.

Yeah, but they didn't know that at the time... And look, Leia just used Luke as a tool to get at Han.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah their first kiss in ANH was a peck on the cheek for good luck. And this one in ESB was clearly done just to annoy Han/make him jealous.

And yeah no pseudo-rapey undertones with the villain here please. That's an overused cliché with female characters already, it doesn't need to happen with Diana.

 

[Willi Berg]

Pedro Pascal sure looks like Maxwell Lord.

He is a manipulator who has access to Brother Eye, some kind of a surveillance system...it seems coherent with the title, 1984 (Big Brother/Brother Eye...) and the omnipresent screens.

The character could be a TV pundit who manipulates people via mass media.
Remember how he framed Diana for his murder? She did killed him, but it was necessary, the video that he created (and broadcasted via Brother Eye) made it look like a cold blooded assassination.
Thing is, in this story WW was very famous, while she is not in this period of the DCEU, maybe he want to expose her or something.

It could also be Glorious Godfrey, who also touches upon these thematics, but I really doubt it's him.

But I am still hoping that he is Dr Psycho because he is a classic WW villain.

That's it for the wild speculations.

That whole Brother Eye stuff could fit in well with the 80s and the whole spy/espionage game. Lord is a good villain. He even sounded interesting in George Miller's cancelled Justice League movie when Jay Baruchel was going to play him.

I wonder if he is just playing one character as opposed to a "god in disguise". If he is Max I wonder if the movie would alter his character/origin much.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yeah their first kiss in ANH was a peck on the cheek for good luck. And this one in ESB was clearly done just to annoy Han/make him jealous.

And yeah no pseudo-rapey undertones with the villain here please. That's an overused cliché with female characters already, it doesn't need to happen with Diana.

Well then there's only one option available for Trevor in this film then by that standard if he can't be part of a villainous plot against Diana because that equates to "rapey". He has to be the actual Trevor for it to not be somehow alluding to sexual assault under this rubric.

 

[flickchick85]

Where is the Max Lord stuff coming from? Last I checked, he's never really been a Wonder Woman villain, so that feels a bit random to me.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Where is the Max Lord stuff coming from? Last I checked, he's never really been a Wonder Woman villain, so that feels a bit random to me.

A pic was released of Pascal looking very Trumped out and lots just jumped to Max Lord.

I will say he does look a lot like some of Kevin Maguire's art of Max. And while it's true Max isn't strictly a WW character the early 2000's did see him getting linked to her in the infamous neck turning story. I also think people are looking at the time frame of the film and seeing that Max's initial introduction was about including a go-go 80's type business guy into the mix of the JL comics.

Myself... I am withholding judgment. Withut confirmation Pascal could fit any number of scummy tycoon types with that look.

 

[flickchick85]

I mean, "Man in Suit" could be anybody, and the neck turning story wasn't a Wonder Woman story, either. Just seems like quite a jump to me.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I mean, "Man in Suit" could be anybody, and the neck turning story wasn't a Wonder Woman story, either. Just seems like quite a jump to me.

I agree. There are lots of businessmen types you could cast Pascal as with that look.

 

[Dufusyte]

Yeah, but they didn't know that at the time...

And neither did the audience, and neither will the audience who sees WW1984 for the first time. It's only on a second viewing that the whole Steve thing takes on a different meaning.

Speaking of which, the box office success of the first film was driven by repeat viewers: it had an incredibly leggy run, with solid numbers week after week, right up to the home video release, and those numbers were driven by crazy people (like us) who saw it more times than we would like to admit.

So if WW1984 is to rival that domestic run, it needs repeat viewers. Which brings us to our point: a psychological drama is tedious to watch the second time around.

If the twist of a movie is "hey, this main character never really existed," well, it can be a neat twist the first time, but it makes that character extremely boring on a repeat viewing, because, like, you know they are just somebody's imagination, and that kind of robs them of their significance.

So if Steve is just a headgame, you will not see droves of ladies coming back week after week to see him.

Now, if Steve is a villain in disguise, at least he still is meaningful on a repeat viewing, because you see him from the villain's perspective. And if he were an ectoplasmic reconstruction, you could even have him retain his memories and personality (depending on the rules you establish for ectoplasmic reconstructions).

So you could have two characters on strings, as it were: Barbara Ann being taken over by Cheetah whenever Cheetah wills, and poor reconstructed Steve, puzzled by how he is back, and over-ridden by his master Dr. Psycho, whenever Dr. Psycho asserts himself within Steve.