The Rise of Skywalker Kelly Marie Tran as Rose Tico (IX)

[Patrick77]

Adapting the Lord of the Rings for the screen presents all kinds of problems. Many of them weren't even solved that successfully in Jackson's films, imho, but just the basic narrative is still a useful example.

The 3rd chapter is responsible for resolving the saga, so it shouldn't feel like there is nothing left to resolve at the end of the the 2nd chapter, or something so basic that it might as well be hero vs. villain.

In Harry Potter, we delve into the problem of the Horcruxes in the 6th book so that the 7th book doesn't have to. It's the same sort of thing.

TRoS basically had to create something, then resolve it. The writers tried to get around that somewhat by bringing back the Emperor, a familiar element, but it's very artificial.

 

[TheVileOne]

Or they could've just gone with the idea that Kylo Ren is the big bad now because that's the new status quo at the end of the film.

 

[Patrick77]

Yeah. But it's still basically: a Jedi and some rebels defeat the First Order.

In the sequel trilogy at this point, there was something like: Darth Sidious' plot to destabilize the Republic comes to fruition, its legendary defenders fall to their ancient enemy, Anakin turns to the dark side, and the Sith are ascendant.

That's a substantial difference.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Does the original Star Wars work better with or without that Biggs scene on Yavin?

And you know what? It's cool to see that Luke has an old friend he knows in the Rebel Alliance. But the fact that we never knew about this character and his pre-established relationship with Luke never hurt those films.

That scene was a great addition, because it ties back to the beginning of the movie, when Luke was talking about all his friends leaving to join the Rebellion. It makes the world feel more like a real place where things are going on outside the context of the movie and outside the orbit of the main characters.

 

[jolldan]

Nothing against the actress but can't say I was upset to her being in this less as she never felt like a character that added anything t the story previously.

And the Canto Bight part was just awful.

 

[Marvolo]

Nothing against the actress but can't say I was upset to her being in this less as she never felt like a character that added anything t the story previously.

And the Canto Bight part was just awful.

To be fair that could said about Finn and Poe as well. Finn being a traitor, former stormtrooper, and even being force sensitive amounted to nothing. The only thing about Finn that had some payoff was him being a janitor in Starkiller base. Poe ended up just being a hotshot flyboy that was repeatedly getting his ass pulled out of the fire by other characters. Even his bromance didnt amount to anything of substance.

 

[jmc]

Finn was royally ****ed over after TFA.

 

[jolldan]

To be fair that could said about Finn and Poe as well. Finn being a traitor, former stormtrooper, and even being force sensitive amounted to nothing. The only thing about Finn that had some payoff was him being a janitor in Starkiller base. Poe ended up just being a hotshot flyboy that was repeatedly getting his ass pulled out of the fire by other characters. Even his bromance didnt amount to anything of substance.

Don't get me wrong im not saying Finn always blew me away but him, Rey and Poe seemed like your main characters so even if at times they're stories or arcs weren't great I didn't think there was any chance of losing them. (especially with them killing off members of the original trilogy each movie)

Where as I couldn't really put my finger on what if anything Rose's character added. Its not a case of anything wrong or against her just think you could have given the time she had in TLJ to either Finn, Poe or Rey to add more to their story.

 

[Spider-Fan]

But what’s the ****ing plot? You all keep bringing up threads that don’t actual drive anything story wise from the first two films. All you literally have is good guys vs bad guys, no actually narrative that flows on from TLJ. This is what I mean by people not understanding what JJ had to work with and how the creative process works and why he’s being unfairly **** upon. TLJ ending with Rey turning and taking Kylo’s hand is exactly the type of narrative point that leads to better creative outcomes because it’s a starting point for JJ or some other director to work with. It sets up a natural flow in the third act for Rey to either turn bad entirely and for Kylo to redeem himself, or for Rey to realise her mistake and realise Kylo has gone to far and must be stopped. But it didn’t leave with that cliffhanger and instead TLJ leaves you with nothing more than Kylo is now running the galaxy and the rebel alliance reforming, which is about as generic a ****ing plot point you can get for the third part of which is suppose to be a 3 act story. You’re basically starting from scratch from that point because the last two movies don’t have a consistent thread that link them together, so is it any wonder this film if a bloody mess with about 2-3 films worth of stuff happening and why Rose was screwed over? It’s because he was trying to do an entire trilogy’s worth of things into one movie.

Why are you always asking people to write a fanfic version of episode 9? Like I don't get this obsession. Nobody on these forums is a paid writing professional. Well, at least not very many. So what does a bunch of fans not coming up with a plot prove? I could easily have come up with a storyline that did advance and build off everything from The Last Jedi if Disney was paying me money, but I know that at the very least I'm not going to come up with ideas just to prove any kind of point to another forum poster. You can keep trying to position that question as some sort of proof that there was no possible story to be told, but it's a strawman. I'm not going to write the outline to a fanfic just to prove a point on the internet and people's lack of desire to do so means nothing. Unless you're going to pay me, of course. Then I will gladly take the mental effort.

But that being said, even if I entertain this notion that there was no thread to pull on for the next movie, nobody forced Abrams to shove in a hundred different plots into the same movie. Abrams could easily have streamlined his own design for this movie in a number of different ways. He didn't need to jam a whole bunch of needless subplots that ultimately are rushed and have no emotional impact because they're rushed. Instead of making a movie that's just a constant chase 400 different macguffins, bring back the Emperor in a stream line plot that makes freaking sense. No one forced Abraham's to overstuff this movie. Abrams did that to himself. So this notion that this movie being overstuffed with crap is somehow the fault of Rian Johnson is just garbage

 

[jmc]

I ask because so many here keep saying it was easy for JJ to pick up where Rian left off. My point being, as someone who does work in the creative industry, it's not nearly as easy as some of you think it is. Being paid doesn't mean **** if you don't have the right tools to work with.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Then hire someone who does. Really it's that simple. Writers give you pitches at interviews. Find someone who has a good pitch that continues those threads. That's the job of a producer, after all.


Preferably hire someone with a better pitch than the garbage we got this movie.

 

[Schlosser85]

Which is why it was so frustrating every time that goddamn Hobbit was on screen.

Oh please.

You repeatedly complain about him as if he wasn't virtually an extra. He's just "there" in the background and says like two lines. Monaghan took extremely little, if anything, away from Tran. It's pretty obvious the bulk of what would have been her role was swapped over to Naomi Ackie's character. Because this movie was still throwing boatloads of superfluous randoms at us in the final chapter with everything else going on.

 

[moviedoors]

Oh please.

You repeatedly complain about him as if he wasn't virtually an extra. He's just "there" in the background and says like two lines. Monaghan took extremely little, if anything, away from Tran.

But he took some. That was my whole point. At the very least, she could've had just a few more lines instead of this distracting nothing character whose only there because he's JJ's buddy.

It's pretty obvious the bulk of what would have been her role was swapped over to Naomi Ackie's character.

That's... also true. Robbed of material on multiple fronts.

Because this movie was still throwing boatloads of superfluous randoms at us in the final chapter with everything else going on.

Which is precisely why that glorified cameo in an already burstingly overstuffed movie was so obnoxious.

I'm not sure what your problem is when you're essentially agreeing with and strengthening my point.

 

[WinchesterMcFly]

The Visual Dictionary says the guy from Lost is a historian. Maybe theres a deleted scene explaining this maybe not. So how would Rose whos a mechanic know about what a historian would know ? Is she supposed to know everything ?

 

[WinchesterMcFly]

It was already a stretch that she knew how The First Order was doing what they were doing in The Last Jedi. If she knew that why didnt she say anything to the Resistance before hand & do it themselves ? The know it all Rose would be ridiculous

 

[moviedoors]

The Visual Dictionary says the guy from Lost is a historian. Maybe theres a deleted scene explaining this maybe not. So how would Rose whos a mechanic know about what a historian would know ? Is she supposed to know everything ?

And how is the audience supposed to know he's a "historian"? If it's not in the text of the movie, it didn't happen. All anyone is thinking is "hey, that's a Hobbit/that guy from Lost."

 

[TheVileOne]

I understand what moviedoors is saying, but giving Rose a few more token lines of dialogue, ones that are rather iffy in the movie in the first place, doesn't really fix the movie's Rose problem or the lack of Rose.

 

[Mani-Man]

And how is the audience supposed to know he's a "historian"? If it's not in the text of the movie, it didn't happen. All anyone is thinking is "hey, that's a Hobbit/that guy from Lost."

My thoughts were constantly, who is the guy and why is he trying to be part of the team?
Why is he talking, what is his purpose...why is he there?

And at the end it was just..."for the love of god man, shut up."
That character was completely pointless and i dont get why they needed him at all.
You could easily have given his screentime to anybody else, have him being mentioned...but other than that, the role was pointless.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

It's pretty obvious the bulk of what would have been her role was swapped over to Naomi Ackie's character.

Jannah is such a better conceived character than Rose, it's not even funny. Her personality, her backstory and connection to Finn, honestly I wish so much that she had been introduced in Ep 8 as Finn's foil instead of Rose, and that instead of Canto Bight we'd gotten a plotline tying into stormtroopers defecting from the First Order.

Rose is like if you tried as hard as you could to make a character as unfitting as possible for Star Wars. Rian just obviously isn't into the kind of fantasy universe that Star Wars is supposed to be, whereas J.J. embraces it full on.

 

[henzINNIT]

Jannah is such a better conceived character than Rose, it's not even funny. Her personality, her backstory and connection to Finn, honestly I wish so much that she had been introduced in Ep 8 as Finn's foil instead of Rose, and that instead of Canto Bight we'd gotten a plotline tying into stormtroopers defecting from the First Order.

Rose is like if you tried as hard as you could to make a character as unfitting as possible for Star Wars. Rian just obviously isn't into the kind of fantasy universe that Star Wars is supposed to be, whereas J.J. embraces it full on.

Disagree on both points.

Jannah is just Finn again, but a girl. How is she a well conceived character? Or a good foil? Their First Order connection had promise but nothing is done with it.

Rose was a good foil because she was a Resistance loyalist at a time when Finn was more preoccupied with running from evil than fighting it. DJ was the other extreme, totally self-serving and loyal to no-one. Rose looked up to Finn at the start of the film as she believed he was a Resistance hero, and was bitterly disappointed by him when they met, only to then admire him again as he grew into that heroic role. If anyone should be joining Finn on a mission to liberate Stormtroopers it should be Rose. She helped Finn find his path afterall.

As for "unfitting", I don't know. She was designed to be a more every-day character sure, but a ship mechanic is hardly a radical departure. She got lumbered with the most divisive material of a divisive movie so her popularity was undeniably shot, however I think Rose had potential going forward, and certainly enough for more than the scraps she was given in TROS.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Disagree on both points.

Jannah is just Finn again, but a girl. How is she a well conceived character? Or a good foil? Their First Order connection had promise but nothing is done with it.

Rose was a good foil because she was a Resistance loyalist at a time when Finn was more preoccupied with running from evil than fighting it. DJ was the other extreme, totally self-serving and loyal to no-one. Rose looked up to Finn at the start of the film as she believed he was a Resistance hero, and was bitterly disappointed by him when they met, only to then admire him again as he grew into that heroic role. If anyone should be joining Finn on a mission to liberate Stormtroopers it should be Rose. She helped Finn find his path afterall.

As for "unfitting", I don't know. She was designed to be a more every-day character sure, but a ship mechanic is hardly a radical departure. She got lumbered with the most divisive material of a divisive movie so her popularity was undeniably shot, however I think Rose had potential going forward, and certainly enough for more than the scraps she was given in TROS.

Jannah isn't just a female version of Finn, though. She was a freedom fighter, independent of the Resistance. If she'd been introduced in Ep 8, she would have given Finn the same perpective: that it's important to oppose the First Order. It also allows for more introspection on why Finn and the other stormtroopers defected, and how they can help other stormtroopers who want to defect or who have already defected.

Rose being a huge fan a Finn didn't even really make sense. It had been only a few days since Finn defected and all Finn did was give the Resistance some intel. Felt way too meta. A more logical and interesting direction would be if the Resistance members were distrustful of Finn at first.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Jannah had a whole 2 scenes of character development. They're chemistry was very superficial IMO. Same for Poe and Russell's character. Those plot lines needed more time to bake.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Jannah had a whole 2 scenes of character development. They're chemistry was very superficial IMO. Same for Poe and Russell's character. Those plot lines needed more time to bake.

Oh I definitely agree about that. Hence why my statements are stipulated on the idea of RoS's plot concepts being stretched across two movies.

 

[jmc]

Then hire someone who does. Really it's that simple. Writers give you pitches at interviews. Find someone who has a good pitch that continues those threads. That's the job of a producer, after all.


Preferably hire someone with a better pitch than the garbage we got this movie.

With the time frame available, the lack of story cohesions between films 7 and 8, and lack of direction from those higher up? Good luck finding quality talent with those stipulations hanging over their head.

 

[thangaran]

This character wasn’t just well written or handled or even needed. What continues to be pathetic and sad is the extent of vitriol and harshness SW fans have poured on Tran. To this day I find it so damn shameful. I actually shouldn’t describe these people as SW fans. They’re deplorable little sh!t scum. Real SW fans would never treat someone like that so poorly. Real SW fans actually learn from all the good deeds demonstrated in the movie by various protagonists and learn from the idea of redemption, not take a fat hot dump all over an actress who has no real control of the script. These movies aren’t deep, but there are basic moral lessons of righteousness, goodness, courage that are detailed over and over; yet so many unfortunate stupid ****s out there claiming to be fans end up doing such damage online for no reason.