The Joker Thread - Part 1

Boom said:
This shot is why all the manips of his face aren't working for me. Even with the mouth prosthetics and false teeth, Keoghan still very much looks like himself.
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I think it's because the shot people are using is too big, and it's misplaced when combined with the upper half. Plus, the top half is from when Joker is serious, and the bottom is from when he starts to laugh, so there's an uncanny valley thing going on.
 
BatLobster said:
Even so though, there's still going to be more movies. It's not like this was Reeves' one and only chance to establish The Joker in this world. Overall it just feels like they made a short fan film while they were filming the movie and then decided to release it.

I get that it scratches a certain itch- I think the Hannibal Lecter dynamic where Batman consults Joker in Arkham about another villain has always been something fans have talked about seeing. So maybe the opportunity here was just too unique for Reeves to pass up here with his take on the Riddler being what it was.

I guess I'm still just getting used to the idea that the canon for this world is going to be be built with a lot of materials outside the actual movies.

I'm old fashioned AF, but I think I would've actually loved it more if the viral marketing led to fan screenings of this in theaters. Or a special screening of The Batman that had this scene in the film. Just something to build up the allure. Let the leaked footage circulate, only adds to the hype IMO!

Just make more of an "event" out of it, ya know? Seeing the IMAX prologue to TDK at the viral fan screening is one of my most treasured memories as a fan. I miss that aspect of these movies. The Youtube release just made it feel so mundane to me. It feels a bit cheapened. I think that's my biggest hangup here. We live in a fan service era, and this just feels like another obligatory cog in that machine.

Sorry if that's an overly cynical take, but I just wanted to get that off my chest. I think that's at the root at what's felt somewhat 'off' to me about this. The more I've seen the scene, the more I actually appreciate it-- Barry's performance, the writing, etc. as an isolated thing. I just overall could've lived without seeing it just yet. The movie is plenty to digest on its own.
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You know I was thinking about that. Ever since 1989 WB has usually gone all out on the marketing for Batman films with the possible exception of Begins. However, with this one the marketing didn’t seem as prominent and I don’t know if COVID is to blame.
 
BatLobster said:
Even so though, there's still going to be more movies. It's not like this was Reeves' one and only chance to establish The Joker in this world. Overall it just feels like they made a short fan film while they were filming the movie and then decided to release it.

I get that it scratches a certain itch- I think the Hannibal Lecter dynamic where Batman consults Joker in Arkham about another villain has always been something fans have talked about seeing. So maybe the opportunity here was just too unique for Reeves to pass up here with his take on the Riddler being what it was.

I guess I'm still just getting used to the idea that the canon for this world is going to be be built with a lot of materials outside the actual movies.

I'm old fashioned AF, but I think I would've actually loved it more if the viral marketing led to fan screenings of this in theaters. Or a special screening of The Batman that had this scene in the film. Just something to build up the allure. Let the leaked footage circulate, only adds to the hype IMO!

Just make more of an "event" out of it, ya know? Seeing the IMAX prologue to TDK at the viral fan screening is one of my most treasured memories as a fan. I miss that aspect of these movies. The Youtube release just made it feel so mundane to me. It feels a bit cheapened. I think that's my biggest hangup here. We live in a fan service era, and this just feels like another obligatory cog in that machine.

Sorry if that's an overly cynical take, but I just wanted to get that off my chest. I think that's at the root at what's felt somewhat 'off' to me about this. The more I've seen the scene, the more I actually appreciate it-- Barry's performance, the writing, etc. as an isolated thing. I just overall could've lived without seeing it just yet. The movie is plenty to digest on its own.
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I get what you mean.

I miss Nolan's style of making new information a event for us instead of casually dropping things for the whole world.

As great as this scene is I wouldn't have minded seeing this scene put in the Arhkam show instead as a surprise.

But as you said yourself we live in different time so things aren't gonna be exactly the same.
 
2022-THE-BATMAN-0-I.jpg
 
BatLobster said:
This was a cool breakdown. I do think it's a very well-written scene that conveys a lot of information in a smooth way, and I think the characterization of The Joker is spot-on in terms of the character I know while feeling like a fresh enough take. So those are positives for me.

I have to say though...the first thing he talks about in the video is how important first impressions are.

It's hard for me to get around the fact the first impression of this Joker was a scene I didn't care for in the movie, and then a deleted scene that I watched on Youtube. The overall feeling for me is that this got off on the wrong foot. It's just kind of hard for me not to compare that to things from the past, especially knowing how effective a great Joker reveal can be. I just wish that side of things could've been given a bit more love. I feel like they could've been more patient with how they rolled this out the reveal of this Joker, especially with the Arkham show coming. It seems like a missed opportunity to build up some intrigue around him. I feel more strongly than ever than the scene at the end should not have been included in the film.

Maybe there was no 'epic' way to do it since they're going with the 'media res' starting point to their relationship and frankly just the fact that we've had so many Jokers as of late, it doesn't feel as special. I just find myself wishing they had shown a little more restraint here.
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Maybe it's because I'd anticipated that Joker was likely in this film for so long in the first place, but I can't really find myself agreeing with your position here. I do absolutely get where you're coming from though! Ultimately individual tastes and perspectives will inform our opinions on these matters.

For me, the more time that goes by for both the movie and the deleted scene to sink in for me, the more appreciative I am of how unique and refreshingly specific a take this incarnation of Batman and the overall mythology is. Even down to the Joker.

We've seen four separate live-action Jokers in the last fifteen years alone. And sure, that's bound to be taxing for some fans! For me, what I'm more fascinated and entranced by is how all four of those takes brought something very different to the table... and three of them did so with flying colors in my book!

There's traces, obvious DNA lineage going back to the comics that connect them all in various ways beyond just being adaptations of the same character, but they all look and feel distinct. For instance, Heath and Barry's Jokers both clearly hold a fair bit of inspiration from Lee Bermejo's Joker, but there's still very distinctive, immediate differences in how both crew teams and actors translated that shared inspiration into live action.

And I think for me, the lack of that theatrical aplomb that was so prominent in the Nolan era is more than compensated by that unique flair and authorial diversity of interpretation. God knows, if Joker just looked like a real life 1:1 translation of the classic Joker design from say the Arkham Asylum video game- complete with a pitch perfect impression of Mark Hamill's Joker in his BTAS-era prime- and fans got their first proper look at him through a teaser scene in limited screenings at IMAX theaters, I'd probably be pretty bored by what I'd feel as being a lack of visual creativity. Much like how I felt when I saw Batfleck in his main BvS suit for the first time.

All the pomp and circumstance surrounding such an occasion wouldn't stop me from sighing sadly and trying to shake off my disappointment and just go on appreciating the moment for other elements.
 
Anyone think we'll get some stills of him in The Art of The Batman? The guy who leaked the Joker's description said that he saw official stills, so we know they were taken for something.
 
Boom said:
Anyone think we'll get some stills of him in The Art of The Batman? The guy who leaked the Joker's description said that he saw official stills, so we know they were taken for something.
Click to expand...

I definitely think so!

In fact, I've been assuming for ages now that at least part of why they delayed the release of the book was specifically because there's images and artwork of Barry's Joker in there. :funny:
 
C Prometheus said:
Maybe it's because I'd anticipated that Joker was likely in this film for so long in the first place, but I can't really find myself agreeing with your position here. I do absolutely get where you're coming from though! Ultimately individual tastes and perspectives will inform our opinions on these matters.

For me, the more time that goes by for both the movie and the deleted scene to sink in for me, the more appreciative I am of how unique and refreshingly specific a take this incarnation of Batman and the overall mythology is. Even down to the Joker.

We've seen four separate live-action Jokers in the last fifteen years alone. And sure, that's bound to be taxing for some fans! For me, what I'm more fascinated and entranced by is how all four of those takes brought something very different to the table... and three of them did so with flying colors in my book!

There's traces, obvious DNA lineage going back to the comics that connect them all in various ways beyond just being adaptations of the same character, but they all look and feel distinct. For instance, Heath and Barry's Jokers both clearly hold a fair bit of inspiration from Lee Bermejo's Joker, but there's still very distinctive, immediate differences in how both crew teams and actors translated that shared inspiration into live action.

And I think for me, the lack of that theatrical aplomb that was so prominent in the Nolan era is more than compensated by that unique flair and authorial diversity of interpretation. God knows, if Joker just looked like a real life 1:1 translation of the classic Joker design from say the Arkham Asylum video game- complete with a pitch perfect impression of Mark Hamill's Joker in his BTAS-era prime- and fans got their first proper look at him through a teaser scene in limited screenings at IMAX theaters, I'd probably be pretty bored by what I'd feel as being a lack of visual creativity. Much like how I felt when I saw Batfleck in his main BvS suit for the first time.

All the pomp and circumstance surrounding such an occasion wouldn't stop me from sighing sadly and trying to shake off my disappointment and just go on appreciating the moment for other elements.
Click to expand...

And to be clear, I'm not saying I'm not interested to see more of Barry's Joker. I don't think this is a misfire or anything, I think it could end up being a great take on the character-- and I understand that any take on Batman that is striving to be "definitive" (I don't really believe that truly exists, but that's another story :oldrazz:) is going to have to address The Joker at some point. I just think didn't feel this was absolutely necessary at this particular moment, when the movie already offers so much meat to chew on, that's all. As @Pfeiffer-Pfan put it, it just felt like being force-fed a meal when your belly is already full.

I relate to what you said about the Batfleck suit though. It never really moved the needle for me.
 
Overall, I don't think the Joker needed to be in this film, and I realllly wish Reeves held off on introducing the character again so early.

We've now had 3 different cinematic iterations of the Joker within a 6 year period. I do believe it would've been in Reeves' best interest to hold off, and subtly imply the character's existence in his world-- building up a sense of mystery, and perhaps even dread, as to what the Joker of this nightmare world would look like.

It would've gave Reeves more time to come up with something more creative, and maybe even cast a better actor in the role. As it stands, this Joker comes off as a bootleg Heath Ledger
 
Marvel united said:
Overall, I don't think the Joker needed to be in this film, and I realllly wish Reeves held off on introducing the character again so early.

We've now had 3 different cinematic iterations of the Joker within a 6 year period. I do believe it would've been in Reeves' best interest to hold off, and subtly imply the character's existence in his world-- building up a sense of mystery, and perhaps even dread, as to what the Joker of this nightmare world would look like.

It would've gave Reeves more time to come up with something more creative, and maybe even cast a better actor in the role. As it stands, this Joker comes off as a bootleg Heath Ledger
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Fam, he was in the final movie for two minutes. Was the scene unnecessary? Perhaps. Was it one of the weaker parts of the film? Sure. But the whole "saturation" complaint simply does not hold up here. Especially when you have people out there who didn't even know it was supposed to be The Joker.

Not even gonna touch the last part of your post, for reasons that should be obvious.
 
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I dunno if anyone posted gifs of it already but i'm sure it's out there. I will say though, I'm downloading the video rn through Matt Reeves vimeo page and holy **** it's 24 GB.

2Oh3aHi.png
 
Kane52630 said:
I dunno if anyone posted gifs of it already but i'm sure it's out there. I will say though, I'm downloading the video rn through Matt Reeves vimeo page and holy **** it's 24 GB.

2Oh3aHi.png
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We want the Kane gifs.
 
I got it downloaded, any particular part of it you guys want me to gif?
 
Kane52630 said:
I got it downloaded, any particular part of it you guys want me to gif?
Click to expand...
-The giggling while he looks through the files. Before "The violence is so baroque."
-The chuckle after "You have pictures."
-"Why? You're so much more fun!"
-"You afraid he makes you look soft?"
-"You think they deserved it, huh? You think they deserved it."
-Final laugh.
 
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