10 reasons why the mcu spider-man is the worst

[Frodo]

Holland is a great Spiderman and I've really enjoyed what they've done with him so far.

The only bugaboo I have with the MCU Spiderman is Tony making his suit in CW. I do prefer the idea that Peter makes his own suit, and I prefer that his suit doesn't have A.I. in it , even though it was very funny in SMHC.

His Infinity War suit is different imo.

But other than that, I'm glad they didn't go into the whole Uncle Ben thing again right off the bat.
There's nothing to say they can't go back to it at some point.

I liked that these films have placed emphasis on Peter's highschool and social life, his joy at being Spiderman, and his relation to being part of a larger universe.

They can save the working at the Bugle,struggling to make ends meet, going to college, being in love triangles, losing Gwen, meeting the Osborns, dealing with more tragic losses ,being tortured about being Spiderman, i.e, stuff we've seen in the other films , after he's out of highschool.

I see these as almost as his happy times, before things really get hard for him as a young man .

 

[Venom 1988]

You simply cannot do Spider-Man without acknowledging Uncle Ben. That's like doing Batman without his parents getting murdered or Superman without the Kent's.

Not acknowledging =/= not happening. There's are hundreds of Spider-Man/Batman/Superman comics that do not acknowledge said character's tragic backstory. You do not need to dive into that well (in any capacity) in order to be true to the character.

 

[Herofan]

Would a 15 year old Peter Parker be star struck by the Avengers? I think so.

Any kid would. It's like a 15 year old basketball player meeting Michael Jordan or Kobe. OF COURSE they would be star struck.

So that's just Marvel Studios using the chance to crossover franchises to explore how a teenage superhero would react to being mentored by Tony Stark and joining the Avengers. It would be like a teenager going on tour with the biggest rockband. A dream come true.

And yet in the comics he, at 18 or 19, refused to turn over the Hulk/Banner to the Avengers in order to impress and get to join them. He wouldn't have sided and fought against Captain America and for months remain on Iron Man's side (including or especially after apparently all the other Avengers aside from Iron Man left) on the claim that Captain America went crazy or something.

The lessons Peter learns from Tony are very loyal to the comics though it's new material. Parker learns that he can't rely on a hi tech suit. That his own ingenuity and courage is more important. That's classic Spider-man imo. Not because it's canon but because it easily could be canon.

There's nothing that occurs in the MCU Spidey appearances that would feel out of place in the comics. That's good adaptation.

When in the comics did or would he rely on (given-away) technology, to the point hat he thought/would think he was nothing without it? I think comic book Peter would, if he did get advanced technology, refuse to use it, and grow skeptical of Tony Stark, after learning it had an instant-kill mode.

Comic book high school Peter, I'm pretty sure, didn't go around bragging that he knew Spider-Man or even about where he worked. Or want to drop out of high school.

 

[Chris B]

Tony Stark playing a mentor ship role has never really bothered me as that was never role exclusive to Uncle Ben in the comics, but I do agree that Uncle Ben should get more acknowledgement than he has. Always the chance that the third film might do that though.

The apparent name slaps and the handling of some of the supporting cast is still a pet peeve for me however. I get not wanting to use Harry again but they could've used someone like Randy Robertson instead of co opting Ganke and renaming him Ned Leeds.

Zendaya should've been a proper Mary Jane or an adaptation of Debra Whitman if they insisted on the awkward friend angle.

I actually don't mind the more preppy approach they took with Flash but as others have pointed out, I've never gotten the sense that he's particularly well liked or popular among Peter's classmates which undermines the whole bully angle obviously.

 

[Herofan]

Peter Parker always had mentor issues with scientist he looked up to. And Tony Stark was his mentor in the comics. That's were Iron Spidey came from, the comics.

In the comics Peter learns that Iron Man is untrustworthy and at best unethical and controlling and that it was wrong for him to take Tony's technology, leadership and control, the films, despite prominently showing Iron Man's flaws and their consequences, has Peter not seeing them or not caring about them.

Did they emphasize how much Peter's humble roots conflicted with the legend of Tony Stark? No but this is a perfect example of Parker's blue collar problems and should be explored.

A sad Parker tells Tony, "When you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you."

The films showed Peter as being gullible, believing that Tony Stark fights for the underdog and so he should follow him and fight with him as his protege including against other widely-admired heroes because the others went crazy.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I suggest a better title for this thread:

"10 reasons why MCU Spider-Man doesn't work for me but is still a valid take and why it's okay to have differing opinions."

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

In the comics Peter learns that Iron Man is untrustworthy and at best unethical and controlling and that it was wrong for him to take Tony's technology, leadership and control, the films, despite prominently showing Iron Man's flaws and their consequences, has Peter not seeing them or not caring about them.





The films showed Peter as being gullible, believing that Tony Stark fights for the underdog and so he should follow him and fight with him as his protege including against other widely-admired heroes because the others went crazy.

Yes Peter is younger and Stark is more sympathetic than the comics. So Peter being more loyal to Tony makes sense.

 

[Dark Raven]

Tony Stark playing a mentor ship role has never really bothered me as that was never role exclusive to Uncle Ben in the comics, but I do agree that Uncle Ben should get more acknowledgement than he has. Always the chance that the third film might do that though.

The apparent name slaps and the handling of some of the supporting cast is still a pet peeve for me however. I get not wanting to use Harry again but they could've used someone like Randy Robertson instead of co opting Ganke and renaming him Ned Leeds.

Zendaya should've been a proper Mary Jane or an adaptation of Debra Whitman if they insisted on the awkward friend angle.

I actually don't mind the more preppy approach they took with Flash but as others have pointed out, I've never gotten the sense that he's particularly well liked or popular among Peter's classmates which undermines the whole bully angle obviously.

Flash in the comics was supposed to be one of the most popular kids in high school. He was the big man on campus. People followed him and his opinions. This Flash definitely seems undermined, because he seems like the annoying kid no-one likes. Who would even be following him on social media?

 

[Frodo]

Once they changed Midtown to a Science school, I think it pretty much changed the dynamics with Flash and Peter's other supporting cast at the school.

This Flash isn't be the jock and popular man on campus,of the previous films and comics ,since he's in a school in which you have several brilliant and gifted students as opposed to Peter being the lone nerd among jocks and popular girls.

So this Flash's bullying is different in that he insults Peter, and is his intellectual rival, or at least he thinks he is.

To be clear though, this Flash is played more for laughs than the previous versions have been. He thinks he's cool but he's not.

I've always thought of the Flash in Highschool, pre his war hero days, as a bully and an idiot anyway, so the films have pretty much kept that core element to the character imo.

I actually have more of an issue with the whole Michelle/MJ identity stuff than the MCU version of Flash.

 

[fan4stic]

Not acknowledging =/= not happening. There's are hundreds of Spider-Man/Batman/Superman comics that do not acknowledge said character's tragic backstory. You do not need to dive into that well (in any capacity) in order to be true to the character.

Those are in the same continuity as comics that acknowledge those things, at least in some way(s), I assume. If so, I don't think, to me, that's the same as MCU SM.

In this case, I don't think MCU SM really does it much, if at all. His name isn't even mentioned, as far as I remember.

 

[Nolidoli]

Yep, I pretty much agree with this whole thing. Personally, I think Marvel cast the perfect actor for Spiderman but after stripping everything that made Spiderman who he is I just don't care about this version of the character. I honestly haven't even seen the second Marvel Spiderman movie. I'll probably see it someday but I've just never felt excited to see it.

 

[Boom]

Really not liking the MCU Spider-Man very much. Nothing clicks for me outside of the villains. My interest in No Way Home is driven purely by the Raimiverse at this point. Heck, I'd even be excited to see Garfield if he were to show up.

Looking forward to the next iteration of the character that (God willing) puts him back in college or in post-grad.

 

[Pennywise]

Really not liking the MCU Spider-Man very much. Nothing clicks for me outside of the villains. My interest in No Way Home is driven purely by the Raimiverse at this point. Heck, I'd even be excited to see Garfield if he were to show up.

Looking forward to the next iteration of the character that (God willing) puts him back in college or in post-grad.

This.

 

[Mandon Knight]

MCU Spider-Man is **ck awful.

 

[Detective Conan]

MCU Spider-Man is merely expanding the relatable Everyman aspect of the character by reconfiguring it in the context of a shared universe with other heroes. MCU Peter is the audience surrogate, clearly being used as a mirror of the younger audience and how they grew up with Iron Man and Captain America; within the fictional MCU universe Peter Parker actually grew up in a world watching these characters. Which in a way, is more truer to the original Ditko/Lee comics where he always was part of the shared Marvel universe since his inception.

Ditko Peter Parker did have a bit of inferiority complex since he often envied beloved celebrity superheroes like F4, and pondered how they do the superhero thing with getting even a fraction of the backlash he gets. Lee/Ditko Peter was a mouthy in-over-his-head kid eager to make a name for himself in the world of superheroes. Which I think Homecoming kind of reflects this. Peter in that movie does want to prove himself to Iron Man that he can be among the big leagues but he screws up, fumbles the ball, and makes mistakes. Now I’m not saying MCU Peter is accurate to Ditko Peter personality-wise since there are core differences between them, but I think how both those early comics and Homecoming uses the character as that underdog, everyman POV on the world of superheroes is fairly similar.

 

[Boom]

MCU Spider-Man is merely expanding the relatable Everyman aspect of the character by recontext the character as the audience surrogate. Marvel clearly is using Peter Parker as a mirror to the younger audience POV.

Which is totally fine. Just not my cup of tea.

To be fair, I grew up on the 90's animated series so I've always had a preference for college/post-grad Spider-Man.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

The only of the opening post's points that I really care about is the whole "all of Peter's supporting cast got snapped" thing. That was definitely lame.

Aunt May should have survived the snap, they could've used the opportunity to put a little grey in her hair and mellow out her personality just a tad. Ned also should have survived the snap, which would have helped with the fact that his actor no longer passes for a teenager. It would have been so interesting to see how Peter and Ned's friendship would be impacted now that Ned's in college or whatever.

 

[Herofan]

MCU Peter is the audience surrogate, clearly being used as a mirror of the younger audience and how they grew up with Iron Man and Captain America; within the fictional MCU universe Peter Parker actually grew up in a world watching these characters.

Even young as he was he should have noticed they were widely controversial as well as internally divided.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Now I want to start by saying I have always wanted Spider-Man to be in the MCU and was initially excited after Civil War despite being kinda shoehorned in. However Homecoming and FFH have been nothing short but complete disappointments and Holland just isn't great in those movies unlike the Avengers movies. But even then his Spider-Man is easily my least favorite of the three. I do put Homecoming and FFH above TASM2 but below every other Spider-Man movie. Simply put here is a few reason why I feel he has been the worst Spider-man

1. The suit- When I first saw the Spider-Man suit I hated it. I hated the web pattern, I hated the piping it just didn't do it for me and I also hated the hexagon spider symbol. What is worse is there was a test suit that looks MUCH better than the final product.
This was also coming off TASM2 suit which is just a masterpiece. As if that wasn't bad enough Marvel decided instead of Peter making his suit it was given to him by Papa Iron Man (that'll be a theme) coming with all these new bells and whistles and then promptly introduced the red and black suit which feel like it'll be his new main suit. Peter is suppose to be a genius yet he can't invent his own tech? Also if that red and black suit isn't leading to Superior Spider-Man I'll be pissed
The Iron Spider in Infinity War and Endgame was good though (I'm a sucker for large bold symbols) but knowing what we could've from the comics gotten pisses me off

2. Isn't relatable- A big part of Spider-man is how he is a regular kid mostly who just happened to get super powers (minus being able to make web but hey stretch your disbelief). Here though he is Iron Man's chosen one and is gifted with all this new stuff. The Raimi and Webb movies nailed this aspect unlike the MCU. He goes to what looks like a higher end public school or private school that can afford trips to DC and Europe, that has chemicals to make spider web, he gets all this tech from Stark and is treated like the chosen one. People complain about Peter having special blood in TASM but this is far more egregious

3. Personal life struggles- Another big facet to Peter Parker and going hand and hand with the previous point is he is essentially a loser plain and simply. He struggles at his jobs, can't pay his rent, has girl problems etc. Here we get none of that. The Raimi movies did it fantastic and Webb did a decent job but here it is thrown out. Aunt May being a struggling single parent? Nah let's have a cool young May who can take care of peter and pay off living in a decently sized apartment in NYC. Having problem paying rent? Nope not an issue and apparently can pay the electricity to charge the Iron Spider. Peter school life hurting because of his duty as Spider-Man? What a joke he can skip out on detention or decathlon club and not get any meaningful consequence. Why should've I care about this Spider-man now?

4. Peter Parker and Spider-Man- A lot of people say Andrew Garfield's Peter Parker was bad but one thing you can't deny is how different Peter Parker and Spider-Man was. Peter is shown to be quiet, polite and nervous around girls. In the MCU Peter and Spider-man are basically the same character. I really can't tell any difference between Peter Parker and Spider-man

5. Lack of consequence- This focuses more on Homecoming but it does a little but for FFH however Peter just doesn't suffer any consequences. FFH was a little better but it would've been better if it didn't come from Peter making stupid decisions and if one of his classmates or teachers died. As I mentioned before he doesn't get kicked off the decathlon team or anything like that. I guess he lost his suit but it was of course the message of you're more than a suit that Iron Man went through in Iron Man 3 but it doesn't work here because unlike Iron Man Peter has super powers and even made his own webs unlike Stark who is a regular person without his suit. The closest we get it Liz having to move which should be heartbreaking but A. she was underdeveloped and B. MJ is just there to take her place and for her to never be mentioned again. That moves onto

6. Worst love interests- Gwen Stacy was amazing in TASM movies and while MJ was a bit dull in the Raimi trilogy they are still way better than Liz or MJ in the MCU. Liz simply isn't given any time to be developed and is just Peter's high school crush. He likes her because she is smart and hot and popular but we learn barely anything of her interests or ambitions and then is promptly written out at the end killing any chance for her to be developed later especially knowing her father was Vulture. Now Michelle "MJ" Jones is a little better but still incredibly underdeveloped and having her take Mary Jane Watson's role is just insult to injury

7. Action and movement- The action and the movement of Spider-Man in the mcu is incredibly underwhelming which I can't understand why given what we got in TASM2 which had the best web slinging and crawling (I always loved how Spider-Man crawled like an actual spider). The action is also incredibly bland compared to the Raimi trilogy or TASM and on top of that Spider-Man pretty much always gets his assed kicked in these movies. It makes me wonder what Iron Man saw in Peter

8. Weak supporting cast- Even though this is probably the largest supporting cast it is also the weakest. None of the decathlon kids have any personality or gets developed outside of just being Peter's vague friends. Ned was OK but nothing special and again Aunt May is just terrible. In the Raimi trilogy basically everyone has their quirks like JJJ or even Betty. Harry though is way better than Ned and could've had an interesting payoff in Spider-man 3 and although his arc was rushed in TASM2 Harry is still a lot better than Ned and Dane DeHaan was actually pretty good as Harry but just needed a better script. I even question why Peter needed to have a clique

9. Missed potential. Maybe it was just the fact the Sony-Marvel deal came so late but it is honestly such wasted potential that we will never see Spider-Man be a full on Avenger with the classic Avengers. On top of that the snap was also a wasted opportunity. They basically play it off as a joke and as an excuse to introduce Brad (who is just the worst). How convenient that literally all the supporting cast including May, Ned and MJ were snapped away so they can all come back in this movie. Remember how when Scott Lang came back he found his daughter grown up? It would've been awesome seeing these kids adapting to a new world and how half the people they grew up with are now older than them. FFH barely feels like a movie set in a recovery earth after the apocalypse and the only hints we get at were the opening and them briefly mentioning how Brad is a cool hunk now. They also wasted the opportunity to have FFH be about Peter taking up the responsibility of Iron Man and losing his father figure. It is barely a part of the movie

10. Too much Iron Man focus- I really get what they were going for but Iron Man just comes off as borderline replacing Uncle Ben. They just made Iron Man way too much of a focus or focus on the wrong elements. Like I said FFH should've been about Peter coping with losing another father figure in a span of a few years. But instead they decide to focus on Iron Man's technology, Happy Hogan banging Aunt May and how Peter wants to be like Iron Man

I've seen a lot of people mention how Miles should've been Spider-Man given the similarities and maybe it would've been better but all I known is what we got has been disappointing. I just don't understand the love this Spider-man gets over Tobey or even Andrew. I see people praise Holland for looking like an actual teenager or more of a focus on high school but I feel like the core of Spider-Man has been left out. It almost feels like Marvel has focused on the superficial of Spider-Man. As an example I saw a video playing Peter Parker and Peter B Parker's monologues from Spiderverse side by side and someone commented the PP is what casual fans think Spider-Man is like and PBP is what Spider-Man is actual like in the comics and I have to say I feel like sony, marvel, disney, Jon Watts or whoever views Spider-Man like a casual fan. They focus on the heroic and fun elements of Spider-man which isn't entirely wrong but leaving out his personal life takes out some of the most interesting aspects of the character. I also get there is a need to make this Spider-Man different from the previous two but I just feel the changes haven't been good changes. I don't mind change but it has to be good

TL;DR: MCU Spider-man just lacks the main essence of Spider-Man and couple that with an uninteresting supporting cast, terrible suits, mediocre action and too much Iron Man focus it just makes a character who looks and acts like Spider-Man but never really feel like him

I'm responding to all of this. I think its absurd to say objectively Tom is the worst of the three Spider-Mans. He can be your least favorite, that's fine. But that is opinion, not fact. In no way is he objectively the worst.

1. The suit. You can enjoy raised webbing all you want. I imagine it's a huge nostalgia kick for you considering Raimi was the first one you saw. But prior to 2002, there's little to no evidence of raised webbing in the comics. And if its nostalgia you want, the tick shaped spidey symbol harkens back to the 90s cartoons and for most that is pretty definitive. I also love TASM2 suit, but we are talking about who is the best *spidey* and the abomination that is TASM suit doesnt even factor into your decision-making process?

Personally, I hated raised webbing. I also hate organic webbing. It's disgusting, weird, and doesnt' showcase Peter's engineering ability.

2. How can you so matter-of-factly state that Tom's Peter isn't relatable? Literally everyone did that for Andrew's because "he skateboards" and I thought that was so stupid too. I skateboarded in high school like Andrew, I tested into advanced classes in high school like Tom and the AcDec team defintely went on special trips. It's not as *unrelatable* as you claim. In a world with superheroes like Tony Stark, Spider-Man's powers and Peter's genius and talents would not go unnoticed. That's the whole point.

3. Personal struggles? Tom has girl problems, money problems (dumpster diving), problems balancing his time spent as spidey. Currently he is able to rely on Stark (a byproduct of being part of the larger MCU) and his Aunt. Give him time to grow up and *get* a job and bills. He's still a kid. This is our chance to see Spidey as the youthful hero he's meant to be. The rest of the heroes are grown adults, can we have *one* hero who is just a kid for a while?

4. I don't think it's fair to say Tom's Peter and Spidey are teh same. Tom's peter around his best friends is way different than who he is around the cool kids, etc. He's shy and overly polite around most, and confident around his friends and when the suit is on. He's polite and earnest as peter (which webb got wrong) and quippy as spidey (which raimi got wrong).

5. These are *movies* they have to have conflict but ultimately end happily. And even in another point you made you claim that he gets beat up too badly. WTH? You can't have it both ways. In both solo movies he loses in battle and in real life. In Homecoming he lost the "stark internship," in FFH he was duped by Mysterio, lost yet another mentor and almost lost his friends. His first mentor dies in Endgame, and HE dies in Infinity War. Lack of consequences... lol maybe that's you critiquing the MCU not specifically this spider-man.

6. Gwen Stacy was by far the best. Agreed. But Dunst's MJ was significantly worse than Zendaya's. She was boring, cloying and fickle. At least this one has a brain and thinks for herself. Liz is just that, a crush. I wouldn't have considered her a "love interest" at all.

7. This is the worst point you've made. Demonstrably and categorically false. We got to see Spidey fight vulture while on a jet with retroreflective paneling. One of the coolest fight scenes in any MCU film. And then we got to see him fight Mysterio's illusions potentially *the* best VFX scene in any superhero film other than Doctor Strange. IDK what you are asking for here, but whatever point you are making it's absurd.

8. Ned and Michelle are great characters. Revelori's Flash is a consistent character at least (compared to the Flash bully trope they drop very quickly in the Raimi's and Webbs series). You feel free to dislike how they were adapted from the comics, but I have faith that MJ is leading to a butterfly "Face it Tiger" moment and that Harry will appear sooner or later. This alone is not enough of a reason to write off Tom's spider-man as a character. As we are talking about supporting characters now.

9. The fact that two studios came together for this deal and successfully pulled it off is amazing. Not only that but even *reasonably* adding him into the MCU at large was an astonishing feat. Your standards are so high, yet you conveniently glance over all the missed potential of Raimi's and Webb's spider-man franchises.

10. Fine. You don't like how big of a presence Iron Man is in the spider-man films. You and everyone else in the world man. Once again, this is a critique of the MCU not of Spider-Man as a character. Tony Stark IS the first 25 films of the MCU. He's tied directly to the formation of the Avengers, he's placed as the forefront protagonist against Thanos and lays the groundwork for everything that comes after. RDJ did a great job with this responsibility, I would almost count this as a valid critique if he did a poor job at any point.

I have no interest in changing your mind about Tom Holland's Spider-Man. But for you to claim he is the worst as a statement of fact is annoyingly closeminded and dare I say, short-sighted. We have a lot more potential for Tom Holland to explore the role. He hasnt even graduated high school. You act like these two movies never made you smile or feel like a kid again. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[HydraSith12]

Amazing>Ultimate
Adult Peter Parker> Teen Peter Parker

 

[spidercide89]

10. Too much Iron Man focus- I really get what they were going for but Iron Man just comes off as borderline replacing Uncle Ben. They just made Iron Man way too much of a focus or focus on the wrong elements. Like I said FFH should've been about Peter coping with losing another father figure in a span of a few years. But instead they decide to focus on Iron Man's technology, Happy Hogan banging Aunt May and how Peter wants to be like Iron Man.

Amazing analysis, and I agree with pretty much 100% of what you posted.

I singled out your final point because I believe this was the biggest miscalculation in the Sony/Marvel reinterpretation. The main ethos of the Spider-Man character is the guilt he feels over his involvement in Uncle Ben's death. He was driven to become a superhero because his uncle's death taught him that his powers gave him that responsibility. Pure and simple.

By providing Peter with a Father Figure in Tony, they have basically invalidated the entire concept of the character. Tony's death may have given Peter an excuse to grieve, but it feels cheap within the basic concept of the MCU. Tony wasn't an innocent at the wrong place and time like Ben was. Tony was an Avenger with remarkable power who chose his role and basically chose his own fate as well. Peter may miss him but he was no more responsible for his death than the other billions of people that Tony chose to save.

Anyway, I hope we eventually see the rights to Spider-Man revert completely to Marvel so they have an opportunity to really do the character justice. Thanks for posting!

 

[joushsh]

I have similar thoughts in regards to the MCU Spider-Man as you!)

 

[Captain Tired]

All I know is that Holland definitely ain't my Spider-Man. And I'm cool with that.

 

[fan4stic]

1. The suit. You can enjoy raised webbing all you want. I imagine it's a huge nostalgia kick for you considering Raimi was the first one you saw. But prior to 2002, there's little to no evidence of raised webbing in the comics. And if its nostalgia you want, the tick shaped spidey symbol harkens back to the 90s cartoons and for most that is pretty definitive. I also love TASM2 suit, but we are talking about who is the best *spidey* and the abomination that is TASM suit doesnt even factor into your decision-making process?

Personally, I hated raised webbing. I also hate organic webbing. It's disgusting, weird, and doesnt' showcase Peter's engineering ability.

I like the Raimi suit, but that doesn't need to be the only one. I'm not that against what they do in the look, but I'd like if they took off the black marks. But, the I think moreso, to me I think the weaker part there, is the new suits Peter has in the MCU. He has like 2 new suits in FFH.

2. How can you so matter-of-factly state that Tom's Peter isn't relatable? Literally everyone did that for Andrew's because "he skateboards" and I thought that was so stupid too. I skateboarded in high school like Andrew, I tested into advanced classes in high school like Tom and the AcDec team defintely went on special trips. It's not as *unrelatable* as you claim. In a world with superheroes like Tony Stark, Spider-Man's powers and Peter's genius and talents would not go unnoticed. That's the whole point.

There's no reason why Peter being noticed should be used to do all that they do in these movies. Some things I can get. New suit from Tony, I think works, but I'd have preferred if the original suit Peter had looked more like the suit, so it doesn't seem like Tony's doing everything.

3. Personal struggles? Tom has girl problems, money problems (dumpster diving), problems balancing his time spent as spidey. Currently he is able to rely on Stark (a byproduct of being part of the larger MCU) and his Aunt. Give him time to grow up and *get* a job and bills. He's still a kid. This is our chance to see Spidey as the youthful hero he's meant to be. The rest of the heroes are grown adults, can we have *one* hero who is just a kid for a while?

He doesn't have girl problems, as he never actually has problems with girls, there's never a real struggle there, Liz is very ammicable in everything, there's no problems. Liz has to leave, but that's not a real problem for Peter personally. Him having money problems is never developed to be a problem for his character (his dumpster diving is basically a handwavey thing, there's never shown to be money based hardships for him in these movies). Similar, though less so, with balancing time. His aunt is one person. And Tony is apart of the issue. Peter can already be having bills, as his aunt is one person and can only do so much. Teens can get jobs at his age.

4. I don't think it's fair to say Tom's Peter and Spidey are teh same. Tom's peter around his best friends is way different than who he is around the cool kids, etc. He's shy and overly polite around most, and confident around his friends and when the suit is on. He's polite and earnest as peter (which webb got wrong) and quippy as spidey (which raimi got wrong).

Raimi Spider-Man absolutely had quips. I think he's had about as much as MCU's. I think MCU's is more remarks that are found funny by some, than cracking wise.

5. These are *movies* they have to have conflict but ultimately end happily. And even in another point you made you claim that he gets beat up too badly. WTH? You can't have it both ways. In both solo movies he loses in battle and in real life. In Homecoming he lost the "stark internship," in FFH he was duped by Mysterio, lost yet another mentor and almost lost his friends. His first mentor dies in Endgame, and HE dies in Infinity War. Lack of consequences... lol maybe that's you critiquing the MCU not specifically this spider-man.

Mysterio duping him, I feel like was easily not held to, in that movie. I don't have a real issue with the duping, but I think it's a more limited thing. Maybe it'll be an important thing going forward, but even in what I've seen I think it's weak.I think Tony's death isn't real consequences, how the movies deal with it is, and it's not really important to Peter's story, as I think it doesn't have real legitimate personal real buyable significance for Peter, and I don't think it works in how important I think they may want it to be (Tony Stark's loss is about Stark and his main connections, he's the main character of his own story), but I think the loss could be used to emphasize the weight and the guilt and such Peter feels about Ben and how Tony's death for Peter is a reminder of that loss, but I think they don't use it in a strong way. I think it's boiled down moreso to whether Peter is going to be the next Iron Man or not. I think it takes a potential and doesn't use the dramatic weight of it. I think it's use is more trivial. Peter kinda dying has no emotional consequences in the movies so far. The loss of the stark internship is Homecoming, and I think it works for the most part, though I think it doesn't have enough buyable emotional significance for the character. I think Homecoming is the stronger, for the most part, out of the 2 MCU Spider-Man movies.

6. Gwen Stacy was by far the best. Agreed. But Dunst's MJ was significantly worse than Zendaya's. She was boring, cloying and fickle. At least this one has a brain and thinks for herself. Liz is just that, a crush. I wouldn't have considered her a "love interest" at all.

Dunst's Mary-Jane had more character in the first half of Raimi's first Spider-Man movie than any of the high school teen supporting cast has had in 2 movies combined. Dunst's Mary-Jane was a character. Zendaya's MJ isn't. Gwen Stacy is also below Dunst's Mary-Jane. Gwen was a character with limited motivation or character drive. Zendaya's MJ is basically only love interest girl, and not a lot else really.

7. This is the worst point you've made. Demonstrably and categorically false. We got to see Spidey fight vulture while on a jet with retroreflective paneling. One of the coolest fight scenes in any MCU film. And then we got to see him fight Mysterio's illusions potentially *the* best VFX scene in any superhero film other than Doctor Strange. IDK what you are asking for here, but whatever point you are making it's absurd.

This doesn't make them not bland. I think both don't have a lot of creativity in structure. I think the animated series had more creative chops than what the VFX in FFH were giving.

8. Ned and Michelle are great characters. Revelori's Flash is a consistent character at least (compared to the Flash bully trope they drop very quickly in the Raimi's and Webbs series). You feel free to dislike how they were adapted from the comics, but I have faith that MJ is leading to a butterfly "Face it Tiger" moment and that Harry will appear sooner or later. This alone is not enough of a reason to write off Tom's spider-man as a character. As we are talking about supporting characters now.

They're barely characters, so I don't see how they're great characters. I don't know what you're citing as inconsistent about his character, in Raimi's Flash Thompson. He's not a main character, he's barely in it, how can he be inconsistent? Unless you're citing an issue with him not being in the whole movie and suggesting that's inconsistent, but it's not. The movie's not about a high school Peter dealing with that stuff. If you don't like it that's fine, but it's not what the movie is.

Your discussing what could be and not what is in the MJ and Harry stuff. That's not in these movies. And that's also not the character of Mary-Jane Watson. That's not all that they're citing as reasons to write off the character.

9. The fact that two studios came together for this deal and successfully pulled it off is amazing. Not only that but even *reasonably* adding him into the MCU at large was an astonishing feat. Your standards are so high, yet you conveniently glance over all the missed potential of Raimi's and Webb's spider-man franchises.

I can cite missed potential in those, but it doesn't matter, as I think those movies do more with what they do use. I don't think MCU Spider-Man has, as a character.

10. Fine. You don't like how big of a presence Iron Man is in the spider-man films. You and everyone else in the world man. Once again, this is a critique of the MCU not of Spider-Man as a character. Tony Stark IS the first 25 films of the MCU. He's tied directly to the formation of the Avengers, he's placed as the forefront protagonist against Thanos and lays the groundwork for everything that comes after. RDJ did a great job with this responsibility, I would almost count this as a valid critique if he did a poor job at any point.

This isn't a defense of the over-reliance on Tony Stark. Whether he does a strong job or not, that doesn't mean that it should be taking over MCU Spider-Man. It didn't take over the majority of Captain America's movies, Thor's, Guardians, others.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Wow... And there are posters that think I get too long winded.


This has a very written in a shack in the woods quality.

It's the ONLY way to write ones's posts.