Picard 3x08 "Surrender"

[Sithborg]

"Vadic forces Picard to make an impossible choice: deliver what he can never give or watch his crew perish."

 

[misjuevos]

Mostly disappointing, we still have no answers. At this point it will be hard to satisfy after so much build up. If Vadic is actually dead that would be a surprise since we know changelings can survive in space. Not to mention Vadic is some evolved super changeling so you would assume she can do what a regular changeling can plus more, not less. We also saw one test last episode where a changeling was crystallized and broken apart.

Riker and Troi were good together. They seem to be the most like their TNG selves which I liked. I would think that Beverly's body ends up in the secret Daystrom Station now since she keeps on having these super-powered kids. Somebody really needs to look into her. I don't like Jack or his powers, it just isn't the direction I would prefer.

Worf shows up and again stabs someone in the "back", it was a changeling so technically it's only a back in appearance. Still Worf doing that doesn't sit right with how honorable he has always been. He also talks about he had slaughtered many enemies. I would've preferred defeated. An honorable warrior would not slaughter.

Raffi fighting the changelings was very dumb. They suddenly have no phasers, and they decide to just use hand to hand weapons. Meanwhile they can form into spikes and just bombard her with tendrils of death.

Data's story was ok. I didn't like Sydney's line about needing Data, that was very saturday morning cartoonish. Data's Lore battle I figured when he started dumping all his memories to Lore he was just taking him over. Like when you copy all your files to a new hard drive. I was hoping Data's daughter Lal would show up to actually help Data defeat Lore.

They probably should've merged episode 7 and 8 in to one. These two episodes just dragged out and didn't give us any answers.

I don't remember but is there a reason Vadic couldn't scan the ship to find Jack, Picard, and Beverly? She could then just do a site to site transport of Jack or the other two to force him onto the bridge.

 

[Holy Slapper]

DATA, YOU BEAUTIFUL POSITRONIC GENIUS BASTARD!

Loved the episode, exceed my expectations.

 

[DKDetective]

While I am very much enjoying the character work on this show, they have really stretched out the main plot and the whole mystery box surrounding Jack. At this point, the only possible answer is that The Face is

Spoiler

the Borg. It is the only TNG era villain that has been remotely referenced or foreshadowed at all this season.

The season premiere began with Picard's log entry from The Best of Both Worlds playing with Picard talking about not understanding the Borg's special interest in him personally. We have Captain Shaw, who is a PTSD-ridden survivor of Wolf 359 and who made pointed references earlier about the real Borg being out there in the Delta Quadrant licking their wounds.

Whomever the villain is wants Picard and Jack for their brain abnormalities which allows Jack to connect with and control others. Ie. Abilities the Borg would find uniquely valuable.

The voices that Jack hears in his head are reminiscent of how Picard heard the Borg Queen in his mind in First Contact. The Face has talked about Changling physiology, its lack of uniqueness, and how Vadic's people are expendable. All Borg-like language. Also think it spoke using plural pronouns.

 

[Gaultheria]

Worf shows up and again stabs someone in the "back", it was a changeling so technically it's only a back in appearance. Still Worf doing that doesn't sit right with how honorable he has always been. He also talks about he had slaughtered many enemies. I would've preferred defeated. An honorable warrior would not slaughter.

"Well, it's the safest way, isn't it?" (Garak, "Call to Arms", DS9 5x26)

"In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory." (Worf, "The Way of the Warrior", DS9 4x01/02)

The voices that Jack hears in his head are reminiscent of how Picard heard the Borg Queen in his mind in First Contact. The Face has talked about Changling physiology, its lack of uniqueness, and how Vadic's people are expendable. All Borg-like language. Also think it spoke using plural pronouns.

Also, Jack's visions have the fisheye distortion that Trek uses for showing scenes from a Borg point of view.

 

[misjuevos]

While I am very much enjoying the character work on this show, they have really stretched out the main plot and the whole mystery box surrounding Jack. At this point, the only possible answer is that The Face is

Spoiler

the Borg. It is the only TNG era villain that has been remotely referenced or foreshadowed at all this season.

The season premiere began with Picard's log entry from The Best of Both Worlds playing with Picard talking about not understanding the Borg's special interest in him personally. We have Captain Shaw, who is a PTSD-ridden survivor of Wolf 359 and who made pointed references earlier about the real Borg being out there in the Delta Quadrant licking their wounds.

Whomever the villain is wants Picard and Jack for their brain abnormalities which allows Jack to connect with and control others. Ie. Abilities the Borg would find uniquely valuable.

The voices that Jack hears in his head are reminiscent of how Picard heard the Borg Queen in his mind in First Contact. The Face has talked about Changling physiology, its lack of uniqueness, and how Vadic's people are expendable. All Borg-like language. Also think it spoke using plural pronouns.

Yeah after episode 6 the borg were my guess as well. I also thought Species 8472. I can't believe we have to wait till episode 9 to find out who the actual villain is and what Jack is.

 

[Gaultheria]

I don't remember[/B] but is there a reason Vadic couldn't scan the ship to find Jack, Picard, and Beverly? She could then just do a site to site transport of Jack or the other two to force him onto the bridge.

Lore had control of the security and transporter systems and wasn't letting anyone else use them.

 

[DCnightwing23]

Just came here to vent about the god-awful uniforms in this series. The costume designers should be ashamed of themselves here. These are some of the most inconsistently tailored uniforms and poorly executed uniform designs in all of Trek, just terrible. And the shoulder pads... ugh. Why so much shoulder pad??? Whyyyyyyyy

Still hoping to see something match the level of beauty these achieved:

At least the TNG crew have their own leather jacket variant of Federation uniforms, similar to the Captain's jacket from TNG, Data looked much better in that:

(for comparison)

But man.. the lack of textures and better materials + the poor tailoring make these look like Aliexpress knockoff cosplay uniforms. I mean..

No wonder the lighting is so damn dim on set lol. Picard, seasons 1 thru 3, worst. uniforms. ever.

 

[misjuevos]

"Well, it's the safest way, isn't it?" (Garak, "Call to Arms", DS9 5x26)

"In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory." (Worf, "The Way of the Warrior", DS9 4x01/02)
.

Worf was talking about cloaked klingon ships. He was explaining to Bashir the Klingons battle tactic. Worf himself is probably the most honorable Klingon and often times stands apart. So I don't believe he would stab in the back and slaughter his enemies. He is both a Klingon and Starfleet Officer, he holds himself to a much higher standard than the other Klingons.

Lore had control of the security and transporter systems and wasn't letting anyone else use them.

Ok, thanks I really didn't want to watch it again to remember.

 

[Baggers]

Spoiler

Love the way Seven and Shaw argue, I know it's against Gene's original vision and against the Trek norm but love this new dynamic between Captain and Commander. I've said this before but it's like Captain Jellico and Commander Riker in Chain Of Command Part 1/2 (if and when Star Trek: Legacy is announced I hope they continue this dynamic!!!)

Great seeing Riker and Troi together again, true love reigns true.

Jack's new power could it be "The Inner Light" Kataan probe related? It was able to transfer memories to another person, so who to say can't do the same to others?! (I have been seeing other people online saying when Jack goes all "mind hoping" that it's very much Borg "fish bowl" eye view so could still be Borg related? But after Season 1 and 2 being Borg heavy do we really need Season 3 to be that too?!)

Bye bye Vulcan Lt. T’Veen we hardly knew you (it's crazy how much in a short time we care for this Crew that I was so stressed to see who was gonna die. In a space of only 8 episodes we already build up a connection with the Titan crew!!!)

Worf with the rescue what a legend and who would have thought Worf could be such a smoothie in his old age.

Data vs. Lore: using kindness and memories against his enemy, that's such a Data thing to do, also Spot and Tasha!!!

That's one way to take back the Ship: Raffi being a badass, and Data just be OG, loved it!!!

Death of Vadic?!!

A darkness on the Ship?! A voice ancient and weak?!! Now I'm back on my Pah-wraith fan theory again lol.

Great to see Data finally got what he always wanted to be...human, so hello to this "new" Data.

Data and Geordi's Bromance!!!

The Band is officially back to together

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

My random comment.
As usual a cat saved the day.
Aaannd the cool looking Vulcan is gone

 

[Baggers]

Spoiler: Star Trek: Lower Decks "Reflections" and Star Trek: Picard "Surrender"

I'm loving the continuity of when The Rutherfords and Data/Lore are in there personal "Mind Scapes!!!"

Just makes it all feel like one shared Universe and the OCD in me likes that.

 

[Dave McFly]

Spoiler

now THAT is how you take out a Trek villain!

 

[Baggers]

Spoiler

now THAT is how you take out a Trek villain!

Spoiler

Yes!!!
The way Seven shouted “Get off my Bridge” gave me chills!!!

 

[Teelie]

While I am very much enjoying the character work on this show, they have really stretched out the main plot and the whole mystery box surrounding Jack. At this point, the only possible answer is that The Face is

Spoiler

the Borg. It is the only TNG era villain that has been remotely referenced or foreshadowed at all this season.

The season premiere began with Picard's log entry from The Best of Both Worlds playing with Picard talking about not understanding the Borg's special interest in him personally. We have Captain Shaw, who is a PTSD-ridden survivor of Wolf 359 and who made pointed references earlier about the real Borg being out there in the Delta Quadrant licking their wounds.

Whomever the villain is wants Picard and Jack for their brain abnormalities which allows Jack to connect with and control others. Ie. Abilities the Borg would find uniquely valuable.

The voices that Jack hears in his head are reminiscent of how Picard heard the Borg Queen in his mind in First Contact. The Face has talked about Changling physiology, its lack of uniqueness, and how Vadic's people are expendable. All Borg-like language. Also think it spoke using plural pronouns.

Still not buying it. Not after season 2's conclusion. I think that arc is done for. While that all makes sense pre-Picard season 2, it doesn't post. Too many questions as to why/how they would know about Jack and why only now instead of before if he were so vital to their future.

There is something else going on, Troi's reference to that darkness and evil inside is a clue. Whatever is going on with him definitely involves another foe. Plus, Picard never once showed even a hint of whatever Jack is seeing.

 

[DKDetective]

Still not buying it. Not after season 2's conclusion. I think that arc is done for. While that all makes sense pre-Picard season 2, it doesn't post. Too many questions as to why/how they would know about Jack and why only now instead of before if he were so vital to their future.

There is something else going on, Troi's reference to that darkness and evil inside is a clue. Whatever is going on with him definitely involves another foe. Plus, Picard never once showed even a hint of whatever Jack is seeing.

I'm not saying it is good storytelling, or make good sense after last season,

Spoiler

but there is nothing else from Trek canon that has been foreshadowed at all this season. The season has made a major point about repeatedly bringing up Picard's time as Locutus of Borg. The season open with his BOBW log discussing the Borg's "special" interest in him. We have Shaw going all anti-Borg and specifically mentioning that the real Borg are still out there licking their wounds, which Matalas has also said on Twitter.

There was a screw-up with the closed captions in one market where they identified the voice Jack hears as the Borg Queen. I would also note that Picard did hear the Borg Queen in his mind and was still somewhat connected to the Collective in First Contact, so what Jack is experiencing is not completely new.

Now, episode 3x09 where we are finally going to learn what is up is titled "Vox", ie. Latin for "voice". Locutus is Latin for roughly the "one who speaks" and was referred to as the "voice" of the Borg.

In thematic terms, it has always made sense for the TNG crew's last adventure to either be about Q or the Borg. Those are the two biggest and most prominent TNG adversaries. The Borg are arguably the villains of both the best TNG episode and movie. It would make sense to come back to them at the end. Last season was a misuse of them.

 

[Gaultheria]

Still not buying it. Not after season 2's conclusion. I think that arc is done for.

but there is nothing else from Trek canon that has been foreshadowed at all this season.

I'm guessing that there's another level to the Borg, much like the Queen's appearance in First Contact. Season 1's revelation of the ancient machine civilization hostile to all biological life is a plot thread that needs a followup. Jurati's Borg are really concerned about the whatever-it-is from the season 2 finale, so they probably know something about it that the Federation and the audience don't. Season 3 doesn't have enough time left to wrap up the thing about Jack, but there's at least time to set up an unresolved danger as the focus of the next series. I'd guess that the three seasons' separate threats are a blindfolded-people-describing-an-elephant situation.

 

[Sithborg]

The big problem I see is Borg is associated with green, not red.

Anyway, good episode. Just letting Brent Spiner have some fun, I support that. The reunion around the table has been too long coming. I loved it.

 

[DCnightwing23]

I'm putting money down that it's the Pah-Wraiths

 

[Teelie]

Pah-Wraiths would be a contender but we have seen nothing of Sisko or Bajorans in general to suddenly take a turn into them.

Making it the Borg still feels like digging in a dry well. Had last season not happened I would more easily bet on that. It still could be but after we saw the Borg become semi-members of the Federation? And Jurati now the Queen? Unless we're getting another "the Borg have splintered" arc which itself has been done at least two or three times previously, I think the answer is someone/thing else.

Q could have been an excellent final antagonist but they mis-spent him last season.

 

[DKDetective]

Pah-Wraiths would be a contender but we have seen nothing of Sisko or Bajorans in general to suddenly take a turn into them.

Making it the Borg still feels like digging in a dry well. Had last season not happened I would more easily bet on that. It still could be but after we saw the Borg become semi-members of the Federation? And Jurati now the Queen? Unless we're getting another "the Borg have splintered" arc which itself has been done at least two or three times previously, I think the answer is someone/thing else.

Q could have been an excellent final antagonist but they mis-spent him last season.

Matalas is on record saying exactly that and even has Shaw say it in an episode from the start of the season.

They mis-spent both the Borg and Q last season.