Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x16 - "What If" - Discussion Thread

[Vartha]

A great episode.
The framework is a cool setting.
I loved the school scene with Coulson as a propaganda teacher.
The Triskelion is really well made.

heh I kept looking through the kids in class to see if there was one that looked like Peter Parker lol

 

[Dr Lee]

Was it just me or did Simmons sound like she didn't have a voice for half the episode?

 

[chicagodave]

Was it just me or did Simmons sound like she didn't have a voice for half the episode?

yes i thought that too but then i realized she had been buried for a bit and that was the cause a dry throat and such, or she actually was sick and were using it to that extent, either way her scene with coulson was heartbreaking just an amazing performance.

 

[GeckoMoria]

Was it just me or did Simmons sound like she didn't have a voice for half the episode?

There was a story reason for that, her cords hadn't been used for ages.

 

[Dr Lee]

if it was put on then kudos to Henstridge...

 

[Dasher10]

I missed last night's episode.....funny how when a network takes a show off the air for weeks at a time, people tend to stop turning to that channel. Totally forgot to look for it. Wish these damn shows would decide to either show an entire season without breaks or start making shorter seasons. It's getting ****ing ridiculous.

Shows take breaks on network TV to both allow more time for filming and so they can get feedback from viewers.

 

[Zarex]

With Inhumans coming next year I was resigned to the fact that AOS was likely going to sign off for good in May. But they followed up what may have been their best episode with another great one. And a fantastic title - I used to love "What if?". I'm hoping they get at the very least a shortened season next year.

Fun fact: Last night's show was #82, tying The Incredible Hulk for the longest run for a live action Marvel TV program (not including the Hulk's TV movies)

And according to USA Today, AOS has a good chance of returning:

ABC

Renewed, or almost: American Housewife, Black-ish, Designated Survivor, The Goldbergs, Grey's Anatomy, How to Get Away With Murder, Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., The Middle, Modern Family, Once Upon a Time, Scandal, Speechless

On the bubble: American Crime, The Catch, Fresh Off the Boat, Imaginary Mary, Last Man Standing, Quantico

Canceled, or nearly dead: Conviction, Dr. Ken, Notorious, The Real O'Neals, Secrets and Lies, Time After Time

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...017-returning-canceled-bubble-shows/99982602/

 

[Heretic]

Oops...forgot that the show was back on. I guess I'll have to catch it online.

 

[The Infernal]

Thought it was a good episode. Liked the how they used Ward. Wouldn't have guessed they would go that route. It will be interesting to see how many episodes they carry on the Agents of Hydra/Matrix storyline for.

 

[Delwin]

Great episode - it really feels like comic book on screen . I wonder how they explain existence of the resistance in the world build from the scratch...

 

[Heretic]

Just watched it...after too much hassle trying to get the ABC site to play and cast properly on my tv...

I dont really dig the idea that you can nag someone enough to break the programming...but otherwise, it was a fun episode. I was a bit worried that this would be a harmless and silly "What If" riff...but it sucked me in and there seems to be some actual stakes.

 

[samsnee]

Good episode. Would have been nice to hear if the Avengers still existed in the framework but I get why they weren't name dropped.

 

[Reaver027]

Again an excellet episode. This 4th season has been amazing so far.
I really like these 3 short story arcs instead of dragging one out for a full season. Much less filler and constant story progression. Almost feels like watching three seasons back to back. I hope they will stick to this formula if the show gets renewed.

Oh and after last episode and this episode Elizabeth Henstridge deserves an Emmy.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Weren't all the Daisybots destroyed when LMD!May blew up the base?

If they were, that means a lot of SHIELD agents died too.

 

[Silvermoon]

Great episode - it really feels like comic book on screen . I wonder how they explain existence of the resistance in the world build from the scratch...

Following is just my speculation.. but given the preview of the next episode, I think the resistance probably stemmed from Mace and the removal of his 'regret' (which was probably that he wasn't the superhero/Inhuman that everyone thought him to be - so in the Framework, he's become an actual superhero)

Just watched it...after too much hassle trying to get the ABC site to play and cast properly on my tv...

I dont really dig the idea that you can nag someone enough to break the programming...but otherwise, it was a fun episode. I was a bit worried that this would be a harmless and silly "What If" riff...but it sucked me in and there seems to be some actual stakes.

If you're talking about Coulson, I think his 'breaking the programming' wasn't caused *just* by the nagging. IMO I think it's clear (via his notebook where he's keeping newspaper clippings, and has pages and pages of "It's a magical place" written) that his mind - which already has a history of being played with - has been trying to tell him that something isn't right for a while (before Jemma and Daisy ever showed up in the Framework). So their 'nagging' just exacerbated what was already going on with him. I'm not sure nagging the others will be as effective as it was with Coulson.

Good episode. Would have been nice to hear if the Avengers still existed in the framework but I get why they weren't name dropped.

Some of them might, but some might not. Cap, for example, quite likely might still be in ice inside the Framework (it was primarily Coulson that was pushing the search for him.... so without Coulson as an Agent of SHIELD?)

 

[darthcoolness3]

Following is just my speculation.. but given the preview of the next episode, I think the resistance probably stemmed from Mace and the removal of his 'regret' (which was probably that he wasn't the superhero/Inhuman that everyone thought him to be - so in the Framework, he's become an actual superhero)


If you're talking about Coulson, I think his 'breaking the programming' wasn't caused *just* by the nagging. IMO I think it's clear (via his notebook where he's keeping newspaper clippings, and has pages and pages of "It's a magical place" written) that his mind - which already has a history of being played with - has been trying to tell him that something isn't right for a while (before Jemma and Daisy ever showed up in the Framework). So their 'nagging' just exacerbated what was already going on with him. I'm not sure nagging the others will be as effective as it was with Coulson.


Some of them might, but some might not. Cap, for example, quite likely might still be in ice inside the Framework (it was primarily Coulson that was pushing the search for him.... so without Coulson as an Agent of SHIELD?)

they didn't mention the year that Agent May went after the girl though, the events of that might have been after the Chitauri invasion in The Avengers. Since the events of the episodes are after Captain America: Civil War, Radcliffe and AIDA wouldn't have the ability to plug the Avengers into the framework, because they already signed the Sokovia Accords and split off in their own ways. For example, Tony Stark went off to mentor PeterParker/Spider-Man and the rest of the Avengers went off radar.

 

[scarlet-witch]

I think my main issue with this episode was how forced the entire thing felt. I'm always of the opinion that the characters should move the plot, not the other way around and this just seems so unnatural for lack of a better word. You know that they're going to come out on top, AIDA will be destroyed and everyone will go back to normal. It feels like a waste of time.

That being said, Elizabeth was great acting wise in that episode. She carried it.

 

[KnightErrant]

REALLY enjoyable episode.

 

[Uskok]

they didn't mention the year that Agent May went after the girl though, the events of that might have been after the Chitauri invasion in The Avengers.

Melinda May killed Katya Belyakov in 2008. The Chitauri invasion happened in 2012.

 

[ImSGirl95]

Yeah, the Katya Belyakov thing was way before The Avengers

 

[Shazam]

Get episode! LMD and now Agents of HYDRA have been outstanding!! The best writing I've seen ever, on this series.

Funny..... I knew the female hand that Fitz reached back for was gonna be Aida's !! His fantasy was making out with his "blow up doll" hottie android! And of course she saw the attraction and used it to give him what he wanted in the Framework....thus keeping him happy there. Fitz got a lotta "splainin" to do when Jemma sees what his heart's desire was. t:

Colson wanted normalcy.....something mundane. What better than a school teacher? But why did he have those files in his desk?I think it's because, being the super spy that he is, he's had all kinds of brainwashing resistance training....and even though he got sucked in, his subconscience brought those clues into the Framework with him. I think he would have broken the spell even without Daisy or Jemma....they just helped him shake it sooner.

Skye /Daisy wakes up with Ward. Let's not forget what a number Ward/ HYDRA god did on Daisy's brain. He's still in there as a soft spot....and not as a villain ...but as the hero she wanted him to be.

Mack..... well he's got his dead little girl back and his woman. Normal life... that's gonna be a hard one.

The Director...... from the looks of things in the previews, he's gonna be the tough super spy leader of SHIELD that he was pretending to be and wanted to be..... And I bet he has super strength too..... It might be hard for him to let that go.

Agent May....... that one I cant explain. She wanted the little girl to live....so she does.....thus unleashing a mass murder which causes HYDRA to gain domination. But how she seems to be okay with HYDRA ....Hmmm Maybe it's the guilt that keeps her thinking the HYDRA will help her make things right from her mistake.

Simmons........ now that's a weird one..... How is her entering the Framework, being buried....? Dead? Did she have a death wish no one knew about? Or was this a Fitz or Aida override so that those two can keep their fantasy smokin?? But if Fitz or Aida tried to kill her upon entry, how did Simmons overcome it?

So many questions.....

Love this show! This is finally the SPY show it needs to be.

 

[Shazam]

I agree. GR is far better than LMD and What if.

You have got to be kidding.............

 

[Dr Lee]

Get episode! LMD and now Agents of HYDRA have been outstanding!! The best writing I've seen ever, on this series.

Funny..... I knew the female hand that Fitz reached back for was gonna be Aida's !! His fantasy was making out with his "blow up doll" hottie android! And of course she saw the attraction and used it to give him what he wanted in the Framework....thus keeping him happy there. Fitz got a lotta "splainin" to do when Jemma sees what his hearts desire was. t:

His regret is going to be to do with his father & the relationship they had/didn't have. That & the fact that Jemma wasn't in his life made him into the person we saw in the episode.... but, he still seems to have the drive to protect people close to him and as Aida put herself close to him, his drive is to protect her.

Colson wanted normalcy.....something mundane. What better than a school teacher. But why did he have those files in his desk?I think it's because, being the super spy that he is, he's had all kinds of brainwashing resistance training....and even though he got sucked in, his subconscience brought those clues into the Framework with him. I think he would have broken the spell even without Daisy or Jemma....they just helped him shake it sooner.

What I got from the episode was his mind joining the dots on it's own was probably more to do with T.A.H.I.T.I. rather than any training

Skye /Daisy wakes up with Ward. Let's not forget what a number Ward/ HYDRA god did on Daisy's brain. He's still in there as a soft spot....and not as a villain ...but as the hero she wanted him to be.

Daisy jacked into the Framework through not official means, which meant that her 'avatar' in the FW was just a program rather than her, the situation she was in (living with Ward) isn't to do with her regrets. if her regrets were affecting the FW, then it would have been Lincoln in the bed IMHO.

Mack..... well he's got his dead little girl back and his woman. Normal life... that's gonna be a hard one.

Oh God...This one will break people...

The Director...... from the looks of things in the previews, he's gonna be the tough super spy leader of SHIELD that he was pretending to be and wanted to be..... And I bet he has super strength too..... It might be hard for him to let that go.

Not seen the promo...

Agent May....... that one I cant explain. She wanted the little girl to live....so she does.....thus unleashing a mass murder which causes HYDRA to gain domination. But how she seems to be okay with HYDRA ....Hmmm Maybe it's the guilt that keeps her thinking the HYDRA will help her make things right from her mistake.

I think May is probably more broken than she was at the start of the show, the incident with the kid in RL wrecked her so knowing that the kid wouldn't have killed all the others in the 'Cambridge incident' would completely tear her to pieces. Then HYDRA appears (or already existed publicly) promising to keep people safe from the Inhuman infestation, I could see her joining them and letting herself be run by the rules and order of HYDRA rather than think about her own being (if that makes sense).

Simmons........ now that's a weird one..... How is her entering the Framework, being buried....? Dead? Did she have a death wish no one knew about? Or was this a Fitz or Aida override so that those two can keep their fantasy smokin?? But if Fitz or Aida tried to kill her upon entry, how did Simmons overcome it?

So many questions.....

Love this show! This is finally the SPY show it needs to be.

Like Daisy, Jemma hacked in, her avatar was doing what AIDA wanted rather than what she would have done. Aida knows that the only way to break Fitz from her control is to get him near Simmons.... and that with FitzSimmons together again, they'd eventually escape to stop her in the Real World... so she had the Avatar of Simmons murdered in the HYDRA uprising to keep Fitz from being able to escape her grasp.

 

[Asharad]

You have got to be kidding.............

Nope. I'm hoping they leave the What-If world very quickly and get back into real problems.

 

[giveyourself12%]

This show keeps amazing me. Brilliant episode. For me, one of the best ever.

This show is birthday cake.