BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - Part 305

[FlawlessVictory]

So you're telling me that NOBODY in the cars that were protecting the truck that Batman took out died. I mean you're telling me a human can survive that? Even the car Batman directly shot at and it completely fell apart because of the rounds of his billets and started flipping and he ran straight through it and exploded. Those guys survived too? Come on guys, seriously? Like omg.

I clearly said in my post maybe they died, maybe they didn't. I can't say for a fact either way. The person operating the gun died when Batman shot at it, absolutely.

 

[TeeKay]

Not suggesting Batman is a police officer but as example.

Q:
A group of armed criminals just robbed a bank and shot a teller.

They jump in their car and race off at high speed.

The cops give high speed pursuit.

After many miles and attempts to safely stop the dangerous robbers, the cops put down spike strips and blow out the criminals tires causing the car to crash and flip end over end killing some of the bad guy passengers...

Did the cops "murder" the bad guy passengers?

Your analogy here doesn't work for the simple fact that Lex's crew never shot anybody. They were quietly transporting that kryptonite. I mean Batman shot a tracker at the truck. Cool. You'd assume he's either follow the truck or just wait and break into Lex Corp (which he did anyways). Then what does he do next? Instigate an attack. The whole scene was dumb and unnecessary. Batman isn't the police. They took away his moral code in this film and turned him into a murderer. That's what's being debated here. That was some Frank Castle **** he was doing. First is was "death by proxy" and now we're being told those guys didn't even die because we see it happen. Jesus.

He's the BATMAN. Beginning and the End. They should have run,they tempted fate,they paid.

That's not even the point.

 

[TeeKay]

The only people I can tell for certain died in that chase sequence are the occupants of the car that had the gattling gun mounted at the rear end.

This is ridiculous. 5 months later and still the same issue.

Yet you're still taking time to reply to my posts. I mean you can just ignore it if you don't like it. I'm just giving my opinion since you know, it's a discussion forum.

I clearly said in my post maybe they died, maybe they didn't. I can't say for a fact either way. The person operating the gun died when Batman shot at it, absolutely.

Which is ummm what's the wrong I'm looking for. Oh yes murder.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Which is ummm what's the wrong I'm looking for. Oh yes murder.

He was being shot at. He shot back at the car and the car flips over and explodes. It wasn't premeditated, which is part of the definition of murder.

 

[Flint Marko]

I love that we're actually discussing the semantics of the word "murder" to defend this film.
For the record, murder does not have to be pre-meditated to still legally be considered murder.

 

[gdw]

The only people I can tell for certain died in that chase sequence are the occupants of the car that had the gattling gun mounted at the rear end.

This is ridiculous. 5 months later and still the same issue.

Just curious, what do you think happened to the guys in the car he flipped, then dragged for a couple blocks, then launched onto another car?
Similarly, the people in the car that one landed on?

Lastly, what about this guy's head:

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Batman drives like an a**hole. What else is new. The dude was blowing up parked cars in TDK without even knowing if anyone was sleeping in the backseat of any of them.

 

[misslane38]

Car chase from Batman Begins:

How do I know these cops aren't dead?

 

[Sleiek]

Just curious, what do you think happened to the guys in the car he flipped, then dragged for a couple blocks, then launched onto another car?
Similarly, the people in the car that one landed on?

Lastly, what about this guy's head:

People survive from car being flipped around if you don't know. Again, we don't know what happened to that guy in the truck. I don't see his head splattering. He disappears behind the batmobile. If KGBeast survived, there is a possibility the guy also did.

What I said in my previous post is the deaths I know for CERTAIN. The key word is certain. The rest I don't know, we weren't shown what happened next to those guys who got tossed around in their vehicles. We know people die from being shot or if they are in an explosion. But we also know some people survive car crashes.

I love that we're actually discussing the semantics of the word "murder" to defend this film.
For the record, murder does not have to be pre-meditated to still legally be considered murder.

I wonder what you think of all the other superheroes who don't have a problem killing if the situation calls for it. If it is morally wrong to kill, do you only support superheroes who have the strict no kill rule which very few superheroes have?

 

[souperman]

Your analogy here doesn't work for the simple fact that Lex's crew never shot anybody. They were quietly transporting that kryptonite. I mean Batman shot a tracker at the truck. Cool. You'd assume he's either follow the truck or just wait and break into Lex Corp (which he did anyways). Then what does he do next? Instigate an attack. The whole scene was dumb and unnecessary. Batman isn't the police. They took away his moral code in this film and turned him into a murderer. That's what's being debated here. That was some Frank Castle **** he was doing. First is was "death by proxy" and now we're being told those guys didn't even die because we see it happen. Jesus.



That's not even the point.

My point was the discrimination between circumstantial and collateral injuries and deaths and "murder" so my apology is quite appropriate.
He did not "murder" the men. They died as a result of the actions of both parties. My other post describing the line batman has smudged for himself explains the rational behind it.

They stole and smuggled into the country a radioactive weapon, and because they did it quietly, sneaking around and didn't start shouting before batman raced out toward them we should excuse them and let them go?

I did not make the " we didn't see them die" argument here, but have used it as an example before. Your assumption is they died even tho we did not see it or had confirmation.

KGBeast survived the batmoble crashing on his head.

The debate is simple. If the production wants them to survive, they do. Many horrendous crashes and explosions have been survived in many other films is the point. It is not claiming they "did"survive, but that they " could have."

Refrigerator Indy Jones anyone. For real?

It is movie entertainment. The wow factor. I was wowed. It looked great.

 

[Charlatan]

 

[Infinity9999x]

Car chase from Batman Begins:

How do I know these cops aren't dead?

Because when we see the chase being reported on TV as Bruce returns to the Manor and Alfred is calling him out, it says there were no serious injuries.

I thought that was really weak myself, but they did address it.

 

[Sleiek]

Because when we see the chase being reported on TV as Bruce returns to the Manor and Alfred is calling him out, it says there were no serious injuries.

I thought that was really weak myself, bu they did address it.

That's convenient, isn't it? You just have to say there were no serious injuries for Batman to get away from his actions which COULD have killed/hurt those cops.
Like the scenes in BvS where they say "this is inhabited" "that is inhabited" and people just believe it.

 

[souperman]

Batman drives like an a**hole. What else is new. The dude was blowing up parked cars in TDK without even knowing if anyone was sleeping in the backseat of any of them.

This is true!
Batman drives for **it in all films. He thinks he's driving a bumper car.

 

[The Batman]

Car chase from Batman Begins:

How do I know these cops aren't dead?

Um....by actually watching and paying attention to the movie?

 

[souperman]

Someone's got sharp eyes...

 

[Sleiek]

DAMN!!!

 

[souperman]

That's convenient, isn't it? You just have to say there were serious injuries for Batman to get away from possibly seriously hurting the officers.

Like the scenes in BvS where they say "this is inhabited" "that is inhabited" and people just believe it.

Great. Superman said he didn't kill those men...glad that's settled.

Batman remains quiet...exercises 5th amendment rights...

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Nice pick up Charlatan

 

[Batsfan1]

Batman drives like an a**hole. What else is new. The dude was blowing up parked cars in TDK without even knowing if anyone was sleeping in the backseat of any of them.

Being reckless and a butthole behind the wheel is different than brutally murdering people with your vehicle.

Because when we see the chase being reported on TV as Bruce returns to the Manor and Alfred is calling him out, it says there were no serious injuries.

I thought that was really weak myself, but they did address it.

Alfred says, "It's a miracle no one was killed." But yes, confirmed. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

 

[gdw]

Car chase from Batman Begins:

How do I know these cops aren't dead?

As others have said, the film latter explicitly states the outcomes, however, without context, you can't know. Although, what these cars are put through is NOTHING compared to what Batman does to the car he drags behind him in BvS. It'd be FAR more of a possibility, albeit a remote one, that the police could have walked away unscathed, than the guys in BvS.

 

[Sleiek]

Alfred says, "It's a miracle no one was killed." But yes, confirmed. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

"It's a miracle no one was killed"

Hmm.

Does that mean Batman didn't do anything wrong though?

 

[gdw]

That's convenient, isn't it? You just have to say there were no serious injuries for Batman to get away from his actions which COULD have killed/hurt those cops.
Like the scenes in BvS where they say "this is inhabited" "that is inhabited" and people just believe it.

You mean the film gets to define it's own reality? Just like every other film in history.
Unless they're saying something that is in absolute contradiction to what was shown (as opposed to clarifying it,) or we're dealing with an unreliable narrator, or other dramatic device or artistic approach, if the film says something happened, or did not happen, that's the reality.

Great. Superman said he didn't kill those men...glad that's settled.

Batman remains quiet...exercises 5th amendment rights...

Well, yeah, pretty much. If we assume Superman isn't lying, to the best of his knowledge, we can be pretty certain he would know. He'd be able to see the exact extent of any, and all injuries he caused someone. Side note, that would have been a nice touch in the post senate bomb scene, if Superman got a chance to speak, and told the EMS what injuries the person he was carrying had.

Back on track, Superman's comment, "I didn't kill those men", seems to be specifically referring to the men KGBeast and his men shot, and burned.
Superman is only seen dealing with on individual.
He doesn't say he did not kill anyone: He's responding to the blame for the massacre itself in this moment.
Obviously just nitpicking/semantics really, but the line remains at least partially ambiguous, as to whether or not Superman killed anyone.

We can reach, and assume it means the war lord survived being slammed through multiple brick walls, but we'd still be assuming, technically. But it's far LESS of a reach than assuming any of the occupants of any the cars Batman destroyed in the chase scene, survived.

 

[gdw]

"It's a miracle no one was killed"

Hmm.

Does that mean Batman didn't do anything wrong though?

No, no it does not. He easily could have killed countless (more) people in those films.

 

[The Joker]

I love that we're actually discussing the semantics of the word "murder" to defend this film.
For the record, murder does not have to be pre-meditated to still legally be considered murder.

Correct.

Being reckless and a butthole behind the wheel is different than brutally murdering people with your vehicle.Alfred says, "It's a miracle no one was killed." But yes, confirmed. Have a very great day!

Also correct.