The Dark Knight Rises Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

[BatLobster]

How about Michael Keaton? "Oh yeah, those are all great" one minute, then the next, "nah, I haven't seen them, haven't even completed mine". That's the truth, you think these actors and actresses watch the films at the premiere? Do you think all of them watch their own films?

Michael Keaton could not seem more genuine about the fact that he likes the direction the Nolan movies went in. He went on and on about it on a recent podcast (heard by no one), while fully admitting that he hasn't seen the movies in their entirety.

And Nolan praised Burton's films as "visionary" and "brilliant". Is that all just an act too? Or when Hathaway said she was at first intimidated to follow in Michelle's footsteps? When Ledger praised Nicholson? Etc. etc.

I think sometimes there's such a thing as being too skeptical. At the end of the day we have to make up our own minds about who's genuine and who's not, and I've made up mine. Or we can just not care about their opinions at all, which is perfectly valid too.

But as Batman fans, we ALL like to see what various people have to say about various incarnations. It's natural.

 

[regwec]

BatLobster, I don't think anyone is willing themselves to disbelieve the veracity of Michelle's words: it is just that they are merely what professional protocol demands. They might be genuinely meant, or not. There is no way to know. It would be a huge deal if she had said of Hathaway, "no range, no class, no charisma", because that just isn't what's done.

This is why Nicholson's bizarre comments about Heath Ledger were so troubling.

All this means is that Michelle's words, in this context, are meaningless. It doesn't mean that they are wrong per se.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Look I'm sure Michelle thinks that Anne is a great actress and has been full of nothing but praise for her.

Believe me... I've seen enough Michelle interviews to know when shes being genuine and yeah, she genuinely wishes Anne well.

But it's also clear that she was being courteous. During the promotion of Dark Shadows and People Like Us last year she was bombarded with Catwoman/Batman Returns/Anne Hathway questions... and by the end it was obvious she was done talking about it. What else could she say...

- She's a good actress
- I'm sure she'll be wonderful
- That the nature of these characters. They have to reinvent them.
- I hope she had fun with it.
- I wonder how she handled the whip

She was being genuine but she was also being polite.

 

[BatLobster]

I agree with all of that PP. No objection from me.

And as I said regwec, there were ways she could have sidestepped the issue while still being diplomatic if she didn't feel that way about Anne's ability. She could have just said, "I can't wait to see her in the role, I love that character and can't wait to see how they reinvent it", etc. etc. But she went the extra mile and specifically mentioned her ability to go dark places, her ability to do comedy, the fact that she thought she had all the right tools to do the part justice and that she was a big fan of her. There is a difference there. If it came across as an obligatory professional courtesy to me, I wouldn't have referenced it in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say "because Pfeiffer said this, it's true and Anne is good!". That's not the point at all. It's just about certain people in this thread needing a wake up call and realizing that just because they think Hathaway is a bad actress doesn't mean other people (with talent and good taste) feel the same *cough OutRiddled*. I like Pfieffer a lot, in part because she does seem quite genuine to me. Which, ironically, is precisely what a lot of Anne Hathaway haters feel Anne isn't.

 

[regwec]

Let's not resort to the 'haters' label. Hathaway does little for me, but I don't know her, much less hate her.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm not labeling you at all regwec. My apologies if it came off that way. I don't presume anyone who doesn't like Hathaway much is a "hater". But there very much is a movement of Hathaway hate out there, and someone who's been active in this thread is flying the flag for that particular crowd/school of thought. The poster I was addressing in the first place.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Anne does come across very stage school... but I don't care. She's talented, hard-working and clearly strove for loftier ambitions than being a Disney girl (Which she acheived).

It's fine to compare both actresses with the role of Catwoman but thats where you should draw the line.

Michelle will be 55 this year (This month... she really need to stop aging). Their careers aren't something you can really compare. While Michelle was in her 20's the movie industry was a different beast.

 

[BatLobster]

Anne does come across very stage school... but I don't care. She's talented, hard-working and clearly strove for loftier ambitions than being a Disney girl (Which she acheived).

It's fine to compare both actresses with the role of Catwoman but thats where you should draw the line.

Michelle will be 55 this year (This month... she really need to stop aging). Their careers aren't something you can really compare. While Michelle was in her 20's the movie industry was a different beast.

 

[Just_Human]

Anne will be in the next Nolan movie

It'll be starring Matthew McConaughey and (recently) Anne Hathaway just agreed to be in the film as well!

The Plot:


An exploration of physicist Kip Thorne's theories of gravity fields, wormholes and several hypotheses that Albert Einstein was never able to prove.

 

[OutRiddled]

It's just about certain people in this thread needing a wake up call and realizing that just because they think Hathaway is a bad actress doesn't mean other people (with talent and good taste) feel the same *cough OutRiddled*.

When did I ever say she was a "bad actress"?

I am only judging her performance as Selina Kyle/Catwoman..

To be honest, I have only seen her in Havoc, Alice in Wonderland and The Dark Knight Rises.

 

[Schrute]

Just watched Returns last night, and it has to be Pfeiffer. I just don't think Anne's Catwoman has anything memorable to do in the film besides killing Bane (which I thought was a pretty weak death imo). She helps trap Batman, but all I can think about while watching that scene is that Bane and his men know Batman is Bruce Wayne and could have stormed in on him and Talia when they were sitting by the fireplace 5 minutes earlier.

She does help Batman save the city which I like, but it was kind of predictable but not in a bad way. I just love that you don't really know what Pfeiffer's Catwoman is going to do at the end of the film, instead of going back with Bruce she attacks him and kills Max and is just gone.

I've said this before but I don't think Rises gave Hathaway anything really juicy to chew on as an actress, while Returns gave Pfeiffer a lot to work with.

 

[lililatigresse]

Well, I don't like Catwoman and to be honest, I also don't like Hathaway.
Pfeiffer's Catwoman is the only Catwoman I like. When I was little, I was fascinated by her she's what made me interested in Batman but then I realized that the Catwoman is the comics was definitely not as cool. Maybe that's why I have never been a fan of Catwoman, the disapointment was huge.

Anyway, this one is easy to me, as I would place Pfeiffer next to Ledger. Pfeiffer's Catwoman is with Emma Peel and Ellen Ripley my favorite female character in a film/television.
Even though I don't like Hathaway, I admit that she was not the disaster I thought she would be, she did what she could with what she was given but sincerely, there's nothing iconic about this performance. Honestly.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Anne was good enough but she came off as more like ScarJo in Iron Man 2. Michelle bought the character chewed it up and devoured it.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Nothing really wrong with Anne Hathaway, but Michelle Pfeiffer was immensely better.

 

[Filmfreak]

Hathaway for me. Although I really liked Pfeifer and I think she suited perfectly to the tone and mood of Burton's version I find her performance a little bit outdated by today's standards especially compared to Anne's. She just felt more of a Catwoman to me and despite my initial fears I thought she was the greatest incarnation so far.

 

[Stevejack]

My vote goes to Michelle Pfeiffer. Last night I saw her Grease 2 Film. Pink Ladies character is superb and she is looking so natural and crazy like ever,

So, what you think ? She is awesome I design his Pink Ladies Reversible jacket in satin here, **name of store removed....because, hey, spamming raises people's chloesterol and gives you zits** .

 

[regwec]

If you're going to spam, you may as well remember to link.

 

[icehero]

They're both good Michelle Pfifer is way more iconic !

 

[shauner111]

True. But only more iconic IMO because Michelle delivered a wilder performance in a much more sexualized suit. Not because her version is more "Catwoman" than Anne's which is simply not true because it's barely the character. It's been proven that the louder the performance, the more memorable it is. But that doesn't mean it's better than the more subtle version.

Let's give Rises another 20 years and then we'll see how Anne's version holds up. But i still believe it has to do with a shallow mindset. "I think Michelle was hotter than Anne in her prime, i like Michelle's catsuit more, it had a cowl, she had a whip!". OK maybe that makes it more memorable or iconic. I can understand that. But does that mean it's the better performance? Or more in line with the character of Selina Kyle? Not to me.

My criteria is different then. Because i see good in Michelle's performance and liked her suit and how she looked in it. But i hate her version of the character and thought she over-acted at times. Then again when you have lines like "HEAR ME ROAAAAR!" i guess you're told to deliver them a certain way, or feel compelled to at least, in such a tone.

Anne, for the first time ever, brought the character of Selina Kyle to life. The thief. The grey character, not black or white. Returns gave me a different woman and she should have been called a different name like Halle Berry had a different name yet she still became Catwoman. Hathaway had the ears, the long dark hair, she was sexy enough, just not in the over-sexualized way that most wanted to see. And so i think i will remember her version more than Michelle's when the decades roll on. Even though i have to applaud Pfeiffer's effort for sure.

I can't fault a fan for remembering the Batman Returns version of Catwoman though, because it was a part of many of our childhoods. And yes she was damn sexy. But i gotta be that guy who thinks she was a bit annoying in the role, especially her put-on voice just doesn't click with me when i watch her now.

 

[BatLobster]

I think even minus the over the top comic book elements, Michelle just had a bit more dramatic emotional material to work with even outside the suit. Scenes like the dance with Bruce, the end scene with Bruce and Max. She had more of a chance to explore Selina's emotionally torn state in a more pronounced way. Anne's was a little more emotionally restrained...tougher and more hardened on the inside.

That said, it's pretty amazing that Anne was able to play it so straight and subtle and still steal the movie for a lot of people, even without a ton of screen time. She completely owned it and was a perfect Selina, both for that universe and in general.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Oh, what a joy... this thread again.

What a long winded way of dismissing a great performance as loud.

I guess we can dismiss Heath Ledger's performance just because it's loud. Yes, people will only remember him in 20 years because he was loud. It has nothing to do with acting ability.

And let's not even talk about ''put-on'' voices. Between Hardy's Bane and Anne's ''I learned how to talk like Hedy Lamarr'' shtick. Oh really Anne, what scene was that exactly?

What some call subtle, others call boring.

 

[BatLobster]

I cursed the moment this thread was spam-bumped tbh. For whatever reason it's hard to have a civil, even-handed discussion about this.

A pity because I love both performances and think they're both great versions of the character.

 

[shauner111]

I hear the Lamar influence for sure. It's there, it's just not a direct copy. Ledger had his influences for his voice as well.

Pfeiffer had her own voice for Catwoman. Sometimes it worked, other times it was annoying.

You said it, what some will call subtle others will call boring. That's the point of opinions. Some think it's boring, i dont. If it works for the character then im intrigued. I dont need wild and loud to be entertained.

Some think Hardys voice was annoying and i get it. Im not talking about that, why do you get defensive and then start putting other performances from different movies down to make yourself feel better? Im talking about Pfeiffer vs Hathaway here. I didnt like the put-on voice at times. Can't change my mind.

My reasoning behind not caring for Pfeiffer's louder performance vs Ledger's louder performance is simple. You may not agree and that's cool. It's because i think Ledger's loud performance, Nicholsons too (any Joker for that matter) works for that character. And the essence of who he's supposed to be. I don't like when Catwoman is overdone. I dont think she should be a whacko or being as high energy as a Joker, just on the female side. Leave that to Harley Quinn. Catwoman to me is not boring (i didnt think Hathaway was boring, and many others thought she stole the film so there u go), but she's also not the most charismatic show-woman to ever enter your living room. She's sly, she has some dark humor, she's damaged, but she's not yelling and screaming when she's by her lonesome. She doesn't crack.

That's why i say you may not agree. Because i dont just judge the performance, i judge the character. Yes, for Michelle's version, it called for a whacko. But that's not how i see Catwoman so i naturally gravitate to Hathaway's subtlety.

BatLobster, i think we can have a civil one. The best way to do so would be for Pfeiffer-PFan to stop dissing on other actors/characters, taking pot-shots when it has zero relevance to the topic at hand.

 

[shauner111]

"oh what a joy this thread again". You can ignore threads you know..

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Oh please, this mighter-than-thou stuff gets real old. You've found yourself in the Batman Returns thread many times taking ''pot-shots''.

This thread is ridiculous. You prefer Hathaway's version... fine. Work away if it does it for you.

What I object to is completely dismissing a performance for no good reason. Comments like this don't exactly help your case:

True. But only more iconic IMO because Michelle delivered a wilder performance in a much more sexualized suit.

Don't reduce Michelle to a sexy outfit. It was her performance that made the character sexy. Some of the dialogue is quite silly, but she pulled it off and sold it (as a package) to the audience.

But i still believe it has to do with a shallow mindset. "I think Michelle was hotter than Anne in her prime, i like Michelle's catsuit more, it had a cowl, she had a whip!". OK maybe that makes it more memorable or iconic. I can understand that. But does that mean it's the better performance?

So all Michelle had going for her was her looks and a whip? Surely this Oscar-nominated actress had more tools in her belt than that?... and the screen presence to back it up.

I can't fault a fan for remembering the Batman Returns version of Catwoman though, because it was a part of many of our childhoods.

Yep, Shauner, it's all nostalgia. Nostalgia, sexy outfits, whips and an annoying actress with a put on voice. That's why this has been vividly remembered for over 20 years later.