Does Black Panther increase odds of Falcon as Captain America?

[semper]

I feel like most people automatically presume that if Steve rogers gets killed or benched after Infinity War, Bucky will be the new Cap. But Falcon (Sam Wilson) has also worn the mantle of Captain America in the comics.

Before the gigantic success of Black Panther, I would have expected people to argue that a Black Captain America would be a risk, particularly overseas, where the myth was that black leads/casts don't sell. Black Panther has sort of ended that.

I wonder if both Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan are hitting up Kevin Fiege about the possibility of being Cap.

I feel like Mackie could carry a movie better than Stan as well. Stan broods and has Vidal Sasoon hair, but I'm not sure if he could carry a film better than the effortlessly charasmatic Mackie.

 

[Kuwolski]

Falcon is just a sidekick and hasn't earned the mantle or emotional investment from the audience. The payoff of him becoming Captain America would pale in comparison to Bucky and feel cheap and convenient. The Winter Soldier is just a far more interesting and dynamic character. Simple as that.

 

[semper]

Falcon is just a sidekick and hasn't earned the mantle or emotional investment from the audience. The payoff of him becoming Captain America would pale in comparison to Bucky and feel cheap and convenient. The Winter Soldier is just a far more interesting and dynamic character. Simple as that.

Why does there need to be some emotional pay-off to someone becoming the new Cap?

It's just a new person with the shield to follow. It's not Bucky's destiny written in stone to replace Steve.

Falcon is a well liked and popular character. That's already enough. Audiences have enough familiarity with Anthony Mackie to accept him in the role, if he happens to be selected.

It's about whether a Cap-Falcon movie is good and enjoyable. It's not about people needing to see Bucky as Cap or no one else. That's ridiculous.

 

[psylockolussus]

Who really cares about Falcon though? He's a second tier character in the films.

 

[Flint Marko]

Who really cares about Falcon though?

A fair amount of us, due in no small part to Anthony Mackie's performance. There are plenty of "second tier characters" that engender a lot of love for a variety of reasons.

I actually like him way more than Bucky even though Sebastian Stan is, out of the two, all but guaranteed to be the next Cap.

 

[semper]

Who really cares about Falcon though? He's a second tier character in the films.

Because he hasn't had a bigger role yet. But Fiege is more than happy to bump up characters to bigger status, especially if it follows the comic book storylines (and Cap Falcon was a big deal recently). Hope Van Dyne was a supporting character in the first Ant-Man film, noe she's co-lead in the 2nd. It happens.

Plus, Black heroes are in. I can easily see Mackie getting promoted to lead hero status, as he's a strong enough actor to handle it.

 

[semper]

A fair amount of us, due in no small part to Anthony Mackie's performance. There are plenty of "second tier characters" that engender a lot of love for a variety of reasons.

I actually like him way more than Bucky even though Sebastian Stan is, out of the two, all but guaranteed to be the next Cap.

All this.

I wouldn't write off Mackie's chances of being Cap though. Especially with Marvel giving Bucky this whole new White Wolf codename thing. They may have other plans for Stan.

 

[Kuwolski]

Why does there need to be some emotional pay-off to someone becoming the new Cap?

It's just a new person with the shield to follow. It's not Bucky's destiny written in stone to replace Steve.

Falcon is a well liked and popular character. That's already enough. Audiences have enough familiarity with Anthony Mackie to accept him in the role, if he happens to be selected.

It's about whether a Cap-Falcon movie is good and enjoyable. It's not about people needing to see Bucky as Cap or no one else. That's ridiculous.

Character arc and emotional payoffs, key elements of effective storytelling. Falcon becoming Cap would feel so random compared to Bucky, who was saved by Cap's belief in him. Becoming Cap would be his way of honoring those sacrifices and living up to what Cap believed he could be. You could even say his journey was a way of becoming worthy of the mantle.

What's Falcon got in the established narrative, beyond the fact you think Mackie has charisma? Or perhaps you have other reasons.

This may all be mute but still, if it's one vs the other it's simply no contest.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I agree. Except I don't think Bucky is all that dynamic a character. Pretty boring all things considered.

 

[Kuwolski]

I agree. Except I don't think Bucky is all that dynamic a character. Pretty boring all things considered.

When he's in action he's dynamic, some of the best action scenes are with the Winter Soldier imo. Personality wise is another matter though. Part of it is where the character is emotionally (he's definitely a brooder), but that could certainly change a bit moving forward. I think Sebastian is capable of amping up the charm if it's required.

 

[semper]

Character arc and emotional payoffs, key elements of effective storytelling. Falcon becoming Cap would feel so random compared to Bucky, who was saved by Cap's belief in him. Becoming Cap would be his way of honoring those sacrifices and living up to what Cap believed he could be. You could even say his journey was a way of becoming worthy of the mantle.

What's Falcon got in the established narrative, beyond the fact you think Mackie has charisma? Or perhaps you have other reasons.

This may all be mute but still, if it's one vs the other it's simply no contest.

Yeah, you can do that....

Or like the comics do, you can also introduce someone completely new (or with less emotional connection), give them the mantle and use the trusted Marvel brand to sell it. An approach that can be just as effective.

Miles Morales needs no connection (emotional or otherwise) to replace Peter Parker in the films one day. It happened in the comics, fans know and like Miles, and that's enough set-up. especially when like the MCU, they are constantly looking to refresh the brand and move into new phases.

If Tony Stark bites the dust, they don't need to put Pepper Potts or Happy Hogan or even Rhodey in the Iron Man suit to fill some sort of three act screenplay emotional pay off-device.

New Phase, New Starts. New Characters. They could introduce Riri Williams as the "new Iron Man", and just start constructing new stories. Or Victor Von Doom. Or Arno Stark. Whoever.

I'd prefer the Bucky/Cap saga to be wrapped up in this phase to be honest. A new Cap with less baggage would be more interesting to me. Even the story about John Walker (US Agent) going through the Government selection process to become the new Cap might be a helluva lot more interesting than brooding Bucky inheriting the mantle.

 

[Neptune]

I prefer actual new heroes over new people using the same identity. That being said, i agree that it makes way more sense story wise for Bucky to become Cap instead of Falcon. It's a really good arc for him.

 

[Kuwolski]

The comparisons for Iron Man or Spider-Man don't really apply to this situation, because Marvel were clearly creating a narrative over two (possibly three) films in which Bucky could take the mantle and have it mean something in a deep and meaningful way. You said "trust the Marvel brand to sell it" but I'm stating that's exactly what they've been doing. Their relationship was a driving force for much of the MCU narrative the last few years. It doesn't have to be used going forward, Cap may not even die, but that example alone is a logical reason why he should be the favorite to carry the shield.

Falcon could certainly take up the mantle, perhaps Bucky doesn't feel he's worthy or decides the best way to honor Steve is to follow his own path and reclaim his identity etc.

 

[Fincher]

I prefer actual new heroes over new people using the same identity.

Yeah, to me Steve is Captain America, so anyone else trying to call themselves that will just be Star Spangled Dude. And I'd rather watch a Falcon movie or a Winter Soldier movie than a Star Spangled Dude movie.

I guess Bucky makes more sense than Falcon, comparatively speaking, but it's comparing two ideas that don't interest me.

 

[daddydivine]

They could both be Captain America. They did it with Superman.

 

[DrCosmic]

They could both be Captain America. They did it with Superman.

I think this is actually the closest to what could happen.

As much as Bucky carrying the shield fulfils an arc, it fulfill's STEVE'S arc. Bucky's personality is a dull as dishwater, with nothing meaningful to say or believe in other than Steve Rogers. He has no specific relationship with America, and no particular world or cause he can bring us into in a franchise, at least, not one that Black Widow can't bring us into better. IF Bucky is Captain America post Cap 3, then he's Captain America in the same way that Tony Stark is Iron Man post IM3, that is, as a supporting character in other people's movies.

The only way around that is if, as Mackie suggests in his latest interview, they are the co-leads of the movie. Because while Bucky is the spiritual successor, Sam Wilson is the functional successor, that is, he is the one who has ties to the Avengers, who actually does what Cap does "only slower." Between the two of them, they could actually fill those star spangled shoes, that is, Bucky is the new Cap, and Sam is the new Steve Rogers, because neither can really be both.

And honestly, even if he's not called Captain America... Bucky obviously should get the SHIELD, right?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I still don't think Steve dies in either film, but per the topic no I do not think it increases the odds. Sam Wilson simply is just not developed enough a character to take over as Captain America. Captain America is a lead role. Sam Wilson has been a side character in every film he was in. Heck, he was in AoU and wasn't even put into the final battle for Sokovia!!! Compare that with Bucky, who has the 3rd most screen time of any character in Civil War. Bucky I would say is developed enough to take over the mantle, but I don't think he is popular enough. At the end of the day, if Cap dies in either film, I think the mantle does, as well.

 

[daddydivine]

I think this is actually the closest to what could happen.

As much as Bucky carrying the shield fulfils an arc, it fulfill's STEVE'S arc. Bucky's personality is a dull as dishwater, with nothing meaningful to say or believe in other than Steve Rogers. He has no specific relationship with America, and no particular world or cause he can bring us into in a franchise, at least, not one that Black Widow can't bring us into better. IF Bucky is Captain America post Cap 3, then he's Captain America in the same way that Tony Stark is Iron Man post IM3, that is, as a supporting character in other people's movies.

The only way around that is if, as Mackie suggests in his latest interview, they are the co-leads of the movie. Because while Bucky is the spiritual successor, Sam Wilson is the functional successor, that is, he is the one who has ties to the Avengers, who actually does what Cap does "only slower." Between the two of them, they could actually fill those star spangled shoes, that is, Bucky is the new Cap, and Sam is the new Steve Rogers, because neither can really be both.

And honestly, even if he's not called Captain America... Bucky obviously should get the SHIELD, right?

Sounds great. Also i think two heroes filling in Cap shoes makes it easier for huge Cap fans to accept. They'd have to work together to accomplish what Cap did alone. Honoring the Cap mantle as a team would be pretty poetic.

 

[Chance Jackson]

I think this is actually the closest to what could happen.

As much as Bucky carrying the shield fulfils an arc, it fulfill's STEVE'S arc. Bucky's personality is a dull as dishwater, with nothing meaningful to say or believe in other than Steve Rogers. He has no specific relationship with America, and no particular world or cause he can bring us into in a franchise, at least, not one that Black Widow can't bring us into better. IF Bucky is Captain America post Cap 3, then he's Captain America in the same way that Tony Stark is Iron Man post IM3, that is, as a supporting character in other people's movies.

The only way around that is if, as Mackie suggests in his latest interview, they are the co-leads of the movie. Because while Bucky is the spiritual successor, Sam Wilson is the functional successor, that is, he is the one who has ties to the Avengers, who actually does what Cap does "only slower." Between the two of them, they could actually fill those star spangled shoes, that is, Bucky is the new Cap, and Sam is the new Steve Rogers, because neither can really be both.

And honestly, even if he's not called Captain America... Bucky obviously should get the SHIELD, right?

if white wolf must attain the captain America mantle than this is the best way to do it

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

With the White Wolf tease and a seeming shift of the MCU from a Stark NYC focus to a Wakanda as superpower focus, assuming Thanos doesn't flatten the place like Manila in 1945, it would increase the possibility of Falcon getting the red white and blue from none to slim. Back with The First Avenger it seem as if Bucky was going to be Captain America because Chris Evans wasn't all in at the time and we knew of Sebastian Stan's 9 movie deal when his character died

 

[Rorschach2012]

A fair amount of us, due in no small part to Anthony Mackie's performance. There are plenty of "second tier characters" that engender a lot of love for a variety of reasons.

I actually like him way more than Bucky even though Sebastian Stan is, out of the two, all but guaranteed to be the next Cap.

Agreed about Falcon. Of all the minor heroes, Falcon and Bucky are my favorites. Those two over the likes of Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Vision, and War Machine.

 

[Flash525]

With Captain Marvel joining the Avengers soon enough, I don't think there will be a second Captain America. It's not as if we'll need two characters with the Captain title...

 

[TheVileOne]

I never understood the idea of Falcon becoming Cap. He's already Falcon and a great character on his own. That's just IMO, but whatever.

 

[LTuser]

Falcon is just a sidekick and hasn't earned the mantle or emotional investment from the audience. The payoff of him becoming Captain America would pale in comparison to Bucky and feel cheap and convenient. The Winter Soldier is just a far more interesting and dynamic character. Simple as that.

While i agree, Falcon so far is ran as a sidekick, i DO agree with the OP that Mackie is a lot more charismatic than Stan is..

I never understood the idea of Falcon becoming Cap. He's already Falcon and a great character on his own. That's just IMO, but whatever.

I do feel he is a good character on his own, but i do feel he could move from 'b-lister' to a'lister..

 

[daddydivine]

While i agree, Falcon so far is ran as a sidekick, i DO agree with the OP that Mackie is a lot more charismatic than Stan is..



I do feel he is a good character on his own, but i do feel he could move from 'b-lister' to a'lister..

Stan is basically the terminator now. He had plenty of charisma in The First Avenger as Bucky.