Carnage 707
Civilian
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- Mar 16, 2004
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Hi, I haven't posted too much recently but I've still been reading the boards. I wrote the following because I've seen far too many threads and posts that condemn and write-off my favorite character, Cletus Kasady, AKA Carnage.
Now if your still interested, read on, for my thoughts on the character and why he isn't the horrible creation some may think. I fully look forward to the complete destruction of my arguements and conjecture by those that hate Carnage, so please tell me how I am wrong and how much Carnage sucks in essay format, postmarked to 11"21' North latitude and 142" 12' East longitude, Mariana Trench, Pacific Ocean.
Now, onward...
There is an old saying that goes something like this: There are no bad characters, just bad writers, or stories A masterful writer can turn the most boring, cliché, uninteresting or Z-list character into and interesting, engaging and powerful character that has motivations, which have depth. This is the writing that makes characters memorable, that makes them famous.Alternatively; a bad writer can take a character with interesting possibilities and stories to tell, into a boring 1-note caricature. If subsequent writers fail to correct these mistakes, what happens to the character? They continue to spiral downward into oblivion, their potential wasted, their welcome outstayed, and left with little chance of redemption in the eyes of the audience. They are continually portrayed in the simplest of ways, hiding the true potential that the character has, and the writers are unwilling to show.
One such character is the subject of this writing. A character born in the days when the words X-Treme were emblazoned upon every comic book cover, when characters were written in 1-dimensions and let loose upon the world. Of course, Im talking about Cletus Kasady, also known as Carnage.
There are those who would say that Carnage never had any depth to begin with, that there is nothing more to be done with the character, that he cannot be salvaged. They would tell you that Carnage is a paper-thin comic book monster, a villain lacking the depth and character of such famous villains as Dr. Octopus, or the Green Goblin. They would tell you that he began as a shameless Joker rip-off, and became nothing more. I would say that they are right, but only up to a point. Did Carnage begin life as a 1-note kill-machine? Yes. But did he have to continue that way? I would say no. Just as characters as the Green Goblin began and evolved into the engaging characters we know today, Carnage could have done the same. But Carnage707! you say, The Green Goblin had somewhere to go as far as character development, he had history, he had motivation beyond one narrow goal, Carnage never could have had that! I believe that that is wrong. The Green Goblin is such a great character and is written greatly because the character was given opportunities to change and evolve. To develop Carnage into an engaging and interesting character would not be as difficult a task as one might think. Could he ever reach Doc Ock or Green Goblin levels of pathos and depth? Probably not, but he can still be damn interesting. Contrary to what you may have been told, the character CAN grow and CAN evolve into something more.
A few brave writers such as Warren Ellis and David Quinn were able to begin writing Carnage the development, the goals, the depth that he needed to become something more than he was, to begin to come into his own character. They helped push the character in the right direction, but unfortunately, future writers pushed him right back into a shell of what he can be. Can Carnage be salvaged as a character, made acceptable in the eyes of other than those that are fans of him now? Yes he can, and here are my ideas on how.
In all of his appearances the central motivations of the character are defined by his ideology that chaos is the natural order of the universe, that things such as laws and morals are illusions, protection created by people because they are scared of the chaos, that they want control. But in the end there is never real control, and once you realize that, you are free to do anything.
A pretty basic motivation, right? Makes for a few interesting stories, but after awhile the concept would seem to wear thin. After all, anyone could have that ideology, anyone could say they can do whatever they want because they can, so what makes Carnage so great? His potential. Look deeper into the character, look at his history, his actions, and you will see there is more to Cletus Kasady than a one-track mind mass murderer.
Cletus Kasady began life as a child that was born into a world of abuse, of chaos. Never given love or affection, denied any real human kindness, the only way for him to protect himself, to control the chaos that surrounded him, was to respond with even more brutal savagery than he had endured. Look at his childhood origin; is it an evil child who is responsible for the deaths of his parents in one way or the other because he is simply evil, that he kills for the sake of killing? Or is it the origin of a child who found the only way to make his suffering stop, to control his destiny was to stop his abusers in the only way he knew how, through violence. Later in his life he found all of his problems could be solved that way. He saw that he could control his life, and never be hurt again. Through chaos, through inflicting pain and senselessness upon others, he is able to protect himself. Horrible headmaster at his orphanage? Bash her skull in and set the place on fire. Girl wont date you? Push her in front of a moving bus. Control through chaos. Where humanity uses order, laws and morals to have control of their lives, Kasady uses chaos, violence and depravity. By his horrible actions his mind became a shattered mirror, his memories riddled with spider-web cracks, razor edges and blood stains. This is the child who became a man with no empathy, a man with no heart, and a man with a black hole where his soul should be, and no chance of redemption.
And these are the features of Kasadys personality before he became Carnage. Now we have a person who is the personification of all of the sickness, senselessness and depravity of humanity with the power of a god. So now that he is Carnage and has control, that he cant be hurt, what is his motivation you ask? Does he kill now for the sake of it? Is that all? Or does he now wish to show the rest of humanity the way to control their lives as he has, through chaos and violence? As with all characters I believe that Carnage is open to different interpretations, and certain interpretations can make a character much more than what they may be commonly portrayed as.
Myself? I view Carnage is a force of nature, an agent of chaos, a representation of all of the violence, sickness and depravity in the world. His motivation, his purpose is to show people that no matter how much goodwill there is, how many heroes exist, at the end of the day, the universe is chaos. When people no longer have their morals, no longer have their laws and governments to protects them, when humanity is reduced to its most natural and basic state, all of the people in the world are just as sick and horrible as Carnage is. Thats what he believes, that people play nice, follow the rules and be good because they are afraid of the natural state of the world, but remove all of their protection, Laws, government, and morals, they go to being selfish, depraved and sick, and Carnage just loves it, he revels in it.
Another facet of the character is his appreciation for the aesthetic and art of violence, destruction and chaos. He views every one of his killings and acts of evil as an achievement, something that shows his superiority over the normal people of the world, trapped under the weight, and slaves of laws and morality. I would infer that his appreciation and creation of the sick and depraved is the opposite, the other side of the spectrum compared to normal peoples art and music. Just as our paintings and symphonies are admired and appreciated by most of humanity, a person born and raised in violence, abuse and rage, the acts of Murder, mutilation and ways to kill are viewed by Kasady as beautiful, the works of art of a world of chaos. And Carnage wants to be the best artist there is. He can kill people better than anyone, in more ways than he can remember, and he will continue to do so, to spread his art, to spread his message and to spread his influence until he is stopped.
Yet another aspect of the character that I enjoy is unlike any other of Spider-Mans foes, he is the one that you know is absolutely and totally irredeemable. For all of the sins they have committed, men like Otto Octavius and Norman Osborn were decent men once. Even now, consumed in their madness, they still have those slivers of humanity that shine through now and again. Ocks love of science, his pursuits for a life partner and other actions the character has taken may show you that deep down inside, there was a decent person there once, and given the right motivation, may be again. Even Norman Osborn, the bastard that he is, has parts of his humanity that come through. His pursuit of fatherhood, for a son to be proud of, and to continue his legacy, and even in his own twisted way, his sadness for his failed son Harry. And that is what makes characters like Doc Ock and Green Goblin so interesting is this human element. But he opposite can be interesting too. The presence of Carnage shows Spider-Man that real evil exists in this world, evil cannot be reasoned with, cannot be appealed to, cannot be bargained with and will haunt you until the day you die. And as long as that evil exists, it will continue to kill and undo everything Spider-Man has worked so hard to accomplish. Carnage is that irredeemable horror. He is the boogeyman, the force of nature that when unleashed will kill and destroy until it is contained.
Of course that begs the question, Well if the character is that evil, then it is stupid because Spidey or someone would eventually have enough and just kill him and get it over with. Well, we know Spidey wont do it, and Ill get into that in a bit. But lets take other characters into account here. Aside from the whole Sentry debacle, and an attempt by Firestar and Venom, no hero has tried to go out and just kill Carnage. He certainly deserves it and it would save hundreds of lives, right? But this logic could be applied to any character. How many times has Dr. Doom threatened the entire world? Surely Reed Richards, Iron Man, Professor Xavier, hell even the Hulk could have had a chance to kill him by now, and save the world (and timeline and other dimensions) a whole lot of trouble. So why dont they? Well, its a comic book, and Dr. Doom is very popular and a great character. No matter how many times Doom has that destructo-ray pointed at New York, or how many planets Galactus destroys, or how much destruction the Hulk causes, its not gonna happen. There are exceptions, such as Magnetos deaths (and we all know how long those lasted). What Im saying is, does it make sense for the marvel universe heroes to allow Carnage to live? No. But a hell of a lot of other characters could have the same logic applied to them too.
Now, Carnage is a Spidey-villain, and given Spider-Mans unwillingness to kill, makes for an interesting dynamic. Spider man cannot become the monster he needs to be in order to stop Carnage from killing, and as a result will carry guilt by knowing that he could have saved the lives of thousands by destroying one monster. Ironically, if Spider-Man would follow Carnages view-point and just kill him, Spider-Man would gain that control through violence/chaos. But, Spider-Mans, morality, his responsibility is holding him back .allowing the chaos to thrive, allowing Carnage the control. Law. Order. Violence. Chaos. All means of control, one the choices of a hero, the other the choices of a monster. See where it can get interesting with this character?
Carnage can be interesting; he can have depth and can be written well. All someone needs to do is try. They need to portray Carnage as he could be, personification of the sins and savage nature of humanity hiding just beneath the surface. Carnage is the businessman who goes to work every day and beats the crap out of his wife every night just for the hell of it. Carnage is the kindly old man on your street with a garden full of pretty flowers and a basement full of dead kids. Carnage is the teenager who goes to school one day and kills every living thing he can find. Hes the American flag on fire, the constitution in a blender, the claws that tear away at the shroud, the lies of laws, morals and kindness. Hes humanity, nature, the universe at its worst. He cannot be stopped; he cannot be contained for long. He will show you what the world is really like, he will bring the world to its rightful state of chaos and freedom, and by god hes gonna have a hell of a time doing it.
Now go back and read a few Carnage stories, try to think about the character in these terms. Try to see what may not be blatantly conveyed, and see the potential and future of a character that deserves to be written correctly, given effort into his stories. It can be done, and should be done. Having Sentry tear him up in space because you dont like the character? Thats no kind of answer. Letting others who understand the character, can see the possibilities of the character write stories about him? I guess that would be too hard. I hope Ive not been too boring for you all, and I hope Ive helped the character is some way. Thanks for reading.
And remember, the next time you see a kid on the street, he could be the future President of the USA. Or the next Ed Gein.
Now if your still interested, read on, for my thoughts on the character and why he isn't the horrible creation some may think. I fully look forward to the complete destruction of my arguements and conjecture by those that hate Carnage, so please tell me how I am wrong and how much Carnage sucks in essay format, postmarked to 11"21' North latitude and 142" 12' East longitude, Mariana Trench, Pacific Ocean.
Now, onward...
There is an old saying that goes something like this: There are no bad characters, just bad writers, or stories A masterful writer can turn the most boring, cliché, uninteresting or Z-list character into and interesting, engaging and powerful character that has motivations, which have depth. This is the writing that makes characters memorable, that makes them famous.Alternatively; a bad writer can take a character with interesting possibilities and stories to tell, into a boring 1-note caricature. If subsequent writers fail to correct these mistakes, what happens to the character? They continue to spiral downward into oblivion, their potential wasted, their welcome outstayed, and left with little chance of redemption in the eyes of the audience. They are continually portrayed in the simplest of ways, hiding the true potential that the character has, and the writers are unwilling to show.
One such character is the subject of this writing. A character born in the days when the words X-Treme were emblazoned upon every comic book cover, when characters were written in 1-dimensions and let loose upon the world. Of course, Im talking about Cletus Kasady, also known as Carnage.
There are those who would say that Carnage never had any depth to begin with, that there is nothing more to be done with the character, that he cannot be salvaged. They would tell you that Carnage is a paper-thin comic book monster, a villain lacking the depth and character of such famous villains as Dr. Octopus, or the Green Goblin. They would tell you that he began as a shameless Joker rip-off, and became nothing more. I would say that they are right, but only up to a point. Did Carnage begin life as a 1-note kill-machine? Yes. But did he have to continue that way? I would say no. Just as characters as the Green Goblin began and evolved into the engaging characters we know today, Carnage could have done the same. But Carnage707! you say, The Green Goblin had somewhere to go as far as character development, he had history, he had motivation beyond one narrow goal, Carnage never could have had that! I believe that that is wrong. The Green Goblin is such a great character and is written greatly because the character was given opportunities to change and evolve. To develop Carnage into an engaging and interesting character would not be as difficult a task as one might think. Could he ever reach Doc Ock or Green Goblin levels of pathos and depth? Probably not, but he can still be damn interesting. Contrary to what you may have been told, the character CAN grow and CAN evolve into something more.
A few brave writers such as Warren Ellis and David Quinn were able to begin writing Carnage the development, the goals, the depth that he needed to become something more than he was, to begin to come into his own character. They helped push the character in the right direction, but unfortunately, future writers pushed him right back into a shell of what he can be. Can Carnage be salvaged as a character, made acceptable in the eyes of other than those that are fans of him now? Yes he can, and here are my ideas on how.
In all of his appearances the central motivations of the character are defined by his ideology that chaos is the natural order of the universe, that things such as laws and morals are illusions, protection created by people because they are scared of the chaos, that they want control. But in the end there is never real control, and once you realize that, you are free to do anything.
A pretty basic motivation, right? Makes for a few interesting stories, but after awhile the concept would seem to wear thin. After all, anyone could have that ideology, anyone could say they can do whatever they want because they can, so what makes Carnage so great? His potential. Look deeper into the character, look at his history, his actions, and you will see there is more to Cletus Kasady than a one-track mind mass murderer.
Cletus Kasady began life as a child that was born into a world of abuse, of chaos. Never given love or affection, denied any real human kindness, the only way for him to protect himself, to control the chaos that surrounded him, was to respond with even more brutal savagery than he had endured. Look at his childhood origin; is it an evil child who is responsible for the deaths of his parents in one way or the other because he is simply evil, that he kills for the sake of killing? Or is it the origin of a child who found the only way to make his suffering stop, to control his destiny was to stop his abusers in the only way he knew how, through violence. Later in his life he found all of his problems could be solved that way. He saw that he could control his life, and never be hurt again. Through chaos, through inflicting pain and senselessness upon others, he is able to protect himself. Horrible headmaster at his orphanage? Bash her skull in and set the place on fire. Girl wont date you? Push her in front of a moving bus. Control through chaos. Where humanity uses order, laws and morals to have control of their lives, Kasady uses chaos, violence and depravity. By his horrible actions his mind became a shattered mirror, his memories riddled with spider-web cracks, razor edges and blood stains. This is the child who became a man with no empathy, a man with no heart, and a man with a black hole where his soul should be, and no chance of redemption.
And these are the features of Kasadys personality before he became Carnage. Now we have a person who is the personification of all of the sickness, senselessness and depravity of humanity with the power of a god. So now that he is Carnage and has control, that he cant be hurt, what is his motivation you ask? Does he kill now for the sake of it? Is that all? Or does he now wish to show the rest of humanity the way to control their lives as he has, through chaos and violence? As with all characters I believe that Carnage is open to different interpretations, and certain interpretations can make a character much more than what they may be commonly portrayed as.
Myself? I view Carnage is a force of nature, an agent of chaos, a representation of all of the violence, sickness and depravity in the world. His motivation, his purpose is to show people that no matter how much goodwill there is, how many heroes exist, at the end of the day, the universe is chaos. When people no longer have their morals, no longer have their laws and governments to protects them, when humanity is reduced to its most natural and basic state, all of the people in the world are just as sick and horrible as Carnage is. Thats what he believes, that people play nice, follow the rules and be good because they are afraid of the natural state of the world, but remove all of their protection, Laws, government, and morals, they go to being selfish, depraved and sick, and Carnage just loves it, he revels in it.
Another facet of the character is his appreciation for the aesthetic and art of violence, destruction and chaos. He views every one of his killings and acts of evil as an achievement, something that shows his superiority over the normal people of the world, trapped under the weight, and slaves of laws and morality. I would infer that his appreciation and creation of the sick and depraved is the opposite, the other side of the spectrum compared to normal peoples art and music. Just as our paintings and symphonies are admired and appreciated by most of humanity, a person born and raised in violence, abuse and rage, the acts of Murder, mutilation and ways to kill are viewed by Kasady as beautiful, the works of art of a world of chaos. And Carnage wants to be the best artist there is. He can kill people better than anyone, in more ways than he can remember, and he will continue to do so, to spread his art, to spread his message and to spread his influence until he is stopped.
Yet another aspect of the character that I enjoy is unlike any other of Spider-Mans foes, he is the one that you know is absolutely and totally irredeemable. For all of the sins they have committed, men like Otto Octavius and Norman Osborn were decent men once. Even now, consumed in their madness, they still have those slivers of humanity that shine through now and again. Ocks love of science, his pursuits for a life partner and other actions the character has taken may show you that deep down inside, there was a decent person there once, and given the right motivation, may be again. Even Norman Osborn, the bastard that he is, has parts of his humanity that come through. His pursuit of fatherhood, for a son to be proud of, and to continue his legacy, and even in his own twisted way, his sadness for his failed son Harry. And that is what makes characters like Doc Ock and Green Goblin so interesting is this human element. But he opposite can be interesting too. The presence of Carnage shows Spider-Man that real evil exists in this world, evil cannot be reasoned with, cannot be appealed to, cannot be bargained with and will haunt you until the day you die. And as long as that evil exists, it will continue to kill and undo everything Spider-Man has worked so hard to accomplish. Carnage is that irredeemable horror. He is the boogeyman, the force of nature that when unleashed will kill and destroy until it is contained.
Of course that begs the question, Well if the character is that evil, then it is stupid because Spidey or someone would eventually have enough and just kill him and get it over with. Well, we know Spidey wont do it, and Ill get into that in a bit. But lets take other characters into account here. Aside from the whole Sentry debacle, and an attempt by Firestar and Venom, no hero has tried to go out and just kill Carnage. He certainly deserves it and it would save hundreds of lives, right? But this logic could be applied to any character. How many times has Dr. Doom threatened the entire world? Surely Reed Richards, Iron Man, Professor Xavier, hell even the Hulk could have had a chance to kill him by now, and save the world (and timeline and other dimensions) a whole lot of trouble. So why dont they? Well, its a comic book, and Dr. Doom is very popular and a great character. No matter how many times Doom has that destructo-ray pointed at New York, or how many planets Galactus destroys, or how much destruction the Hulk causes, its not gonna happen. There are exceptions, such as Magnetos deaths (and we all know how long those lasted). What Im saying is, does it make sense for the marvel universe heroes to allow Carnage to live? No. But a hell of a lot of other characters could have the same logic applied to them too.
Now, Carnage is a Spidey-villain, and given Spider-Mans unwillingness to kill, makes for an interesting dynamic. Spider man cannot become the monster he needs to be in order to stop Carnage from killing, and as a result will carry guilt by knowing that he could have saved the lives of thousands by destroying one monster. Ironically, if Spider-Man would follow Carnages view-point and just kill him, Spider-Man would gain that control through violence/chaos. But, Spider-Mans, morality, his responsibility is holding him back .allowing the chaos to thrive, allowing Carnage the control. Law. Order. Violence. Chaos. All means of control, one the choices of a hero, the other the choices of a monster. See where it can get interesting with this character?
Carnage can be interesting; he can have depth and can be written well. All someone needs to do is try. They need to portray Carnage as he could be, personification of the sins and savage nature of humanity hiding just beneath the surface. Carnage is the businessman who goes to work every day and beats the crap out of his wife every night just for the hell of it. Carnage is the kindly old man on your street with a garden full of pretty flowers and a basement full of dead kids. Carnage is the teenager who goes to school one day and kills every living thing he can find. Hes the American flag on fire, the constitution in a blender, the claws that tear away at the shroud, the lies of laws, morals and kindness. Hes humanity, nature, the universe at its worst. He cannot be stopped; he cannot be contained for long. He will show you what the world is really like, he will bring the world to its rightful state of chaos and freedom, and by god hes gonna have a hell of a time doing it.
Now go back and read a few Carnage stories, try to think about the character in these terms. Try to see what may not be blatantly conveyed, and see the potential and future of a character that deserves to be written correctly, given effort into his stories. It can be done, and should be done. Having Sentry tear him up in space because you dont like the character? Thats no kind of answer. Letting others who understand the character, can see the possibilities of the character write stories about him? I guess that would be too hard. I hope Ive not been too boring for you all, and I hope Ive helped the character is some way. Thanks for reading.
And remember, the next time you see a kid on the street, he could be the future President of the USA. Or the next Ed Gein.
Symbiote villains are lame in my opinion.
Totally agree. GREAT way of expressing your views, too.
