Comics In Defense of Carnage

I'd equate reading BND with Carnage to getting AIDS after smelling raw sewage.

.... Always gotta love how these types come crawling out of that same sewer anytime anyone even mentions the name "Carnage." OMG, its like someone summoned Beetlejuice or something. Carnage, Carnage, Carnage!

And *poof* out come the trolls.

Carnage does have fans. Begin to deal. Snide remarks or childishnesses such as the above are not going to change anyone's opinion; nor do they make the proponent look any cooler. Which is what I think such attempts are REALLY about: trying to look cool.
 
Silver Sable would absolutely love this thread.

As for me, I cant say I'm the biggest Carnage fan, but I do like the character. And will always have some sort of fondness for the character. As I began reading comics right around the time Carnage made his debut in Amazing, and for better or worse, there will always be some sentimental value there when it comes to Carnage. Also, I will agree wholeheartedly that the character does have potential that has, as of yet, not been exploited properly.
 
.... Always gotta love how these types come crawling out of that same sewer anytime anyone even mentions the name "Carnage." OMG, its like someone summoned Beetlejuice or something. Carnage, Carnage, Carnage!

And *poof* out come the trolls.

Carnage does have fans. Begin to deal. Snide remarks or childishnesses such as the above are not going to change anyone's opinion; nor do they make the proponent look any cooler. Which is what I think such attempts are REALLY about: trying to look cool.

Begin to deal that there's people that don't like Carnage.
 
I must admit that I'm "on the fence" about Carnage. Sometimes I like him and other times,I don't. Venom is my all time favorite and part of me just views Carnage as a Venom ripoff,a way to capitalize on Venom's success. Plus,Carnage does remind me of the Joker,too. And I really hate how they made Venom a "hero" and that was all thanks to Carnage.
However,I love that aspect about him that he's just this ruthless killer. Almost all the other villains in the Spidey universe have,as you put it,been a good person at one time. Carnage is just a murdering monster. No remorse and even no justification for what he does. I mean,he kills people at times just because he's bored. That is a truly terrifying creature. I like that,and it's the complete opposite of Spider-man and his values.
 
I've always liked Carnage. My favorite story in particular is "The Mortal Past". I always felt it was a simple story that had heart. I think it is the best story involving Carnage, this and his original arc where Spidey & Venom had to form a temporary alliance to stop Carnage.

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I've never been a fan of carnage as a character to be honest, but I do like a couple of the ideas suggested here. Carnage was always far too powerful as a villain. Playing up his serial killer side would have been much more interesting take on him. The way I saw it, the carnage symbiote would be pretty weak(as a result of being an off-shoot of venom), but enough to enhance an average guy - like Cletus. So as a serial killer he would have massive advantages over normal human killers, but not be powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with spider-man. This would mean he would have to stalk and pick off victims more like a regular serial killer. Of course Spider-man would become aware of this killer and make it his job to bring him to justice, as he feels responsible for Carnages creation.
 
While I think he's be butchered in the comics, I do like the idea of the character. For one thing the vast majority of Pete's enemies are strictly unremittant killers ala doc ock or norman, basically people that don't mind killing at all but could do without it just as easily. And while you definately have psychos in his rogues listing carnage filled in a grouping that I don't think existed in comics before himself, namely that of a spree killer with superpowers. Now before people jump on me that he's not the first go look up the term and what it implies. The joker isn't even a spree killer. He'd be closest to a evolving serial killer. Now considering Pete's morality I always thought carnage was an interesting counterpoint someone with no feelings of responsibility to anything other than violence and death. Plus his backstory was pretty good and the ravencroft arcs had some real potential to be Pete's Arkham Asylum but it just never panned out enough. Shame.
 
I agree that Carnage (like almost any character) has the potential to be written well and expanded beyond his original purpose. GG and Doc Ock evolved and their backstories and psychologies were fleshed out much later in development. But the thing is--Carnage was not. The character is the sum of what they are and Carnage has never moved beyond the killing machine he was created to be. There has been no depth dug into to find a likable or at least interesting (because how many serial killers are likable?) character. He has been one-note so there is is no incentive to say he is a good character. Like a person, he is the sum of his actions. The writers could have done more, but they chose not to.

However, the character's entire conception is his problem. He was created as the epitome of what was wrong at Marvel in the 1990s and comics in general. He was Marvel's reaction to McFarlen's Image Comics and why it was called the "Image Age." It was all style and pretty visuals meant to be mass marketed and sold, double sold and triple sold in 15 variant covers at a time. It was all about images and flash in the pan.

Carnage was created as a vehicle for Marvel to use in their flagship at this time. Unlike GG, Doc Ock, Lizard, etc. he was written as a tunnel vision character. And unlike say Kraven, who was brilliantly re-invented into an A-lister in the 1980s with Kraven's Last Hunt, he had no goal as he was created for literally his namesake. Bloody and violent carnage as violence (and sex) is what sold these comics, then. His purpose was to cut people up and be ultra-violent and there was nothing meant for him to do beyond that. Future writers could attempt to give him motivation or rationalization for these insane butcherings (they fell on the old creativity crutch of a bad childhood). Other than that no more has been attempted. He was meant to be eye candy and nothing more and that is all he has ever amounted to.

Also, there is the fact that the character is a shameless rip-off of Joker and excuse to ruin another character who also began on shaky terms, Venom. Venom had a weak origin but room to expand, however with him appearing every other month in Amazing Spider-Man Michillinie became increasingly lazy and started writing him as a one-trick pony. Well instead of expanding him (as Michillinie apparently had plans to kill off Brock and let the symbiote become a free agent), Marvel wanted to milk him some more and turned him into an anti-hero, the Lethal Protector. And worst yet, had him and Spidey say "Let all the murders and death threats on me and my loved ones be bygones."

Well if Venom was the "evil Spidey" who looked really cool...now we're going to need a new one who can be both Spidey and Venom's arch-nemesis. Enter Carnage. A cheap imitation of the Joker without the complexity, ambiguity or menacing mystique of that character. It is the agonizing question of who the Joker is and what he is going to do next and the creativity of his havoc and chaos that makes him the greatest villain in comics. We get a boring origin, name and background on Carnage, aka Kassidy, on day 1. Then you know what he's going to do as soon as he's out. He's going to kill the first person he sees. Whenever he escapes he must first murder his guards or latest warden.

"Kassady, what are you going to do next?"
"Kill you and the next person I see!"

What a compelling villain. :rolleyes: He was created to just be an excuse for another Venom-esque villain now that he was turned into a hero and so there could be blood running through the streets of of Spidey comics. In fact by the end of Maximum Carnage one really has to wonder why Spidey and the Avengers just don't kill this guy, even if it is against their code. Or what about the government? You'd think they'd want to get rid of him the first chance they get (and something tells me he wouldn't get much sympathy from a trial of his peers after killing thousands of New Yorkers). This guy is a huge threat who makes all the heroes look incompetent. But that is done to show you how "cool" he is.

I guess what could describe why Carnage exists and why some fans backlashed against him can be best seen in his original appearances. He appeared in three consecutive issues each one entitled in bold bloody letters on the cover "Carnage" with each subsequent issue adding "A villain so cool we had to say it twice!" or something to that effect. They were shoving this marketing toy down our throats.

Now, I personally like the concept of Venom and liked the character in TAS (and in SM3! :eek: ), but think he has been a waste of space in all comic book forms. But the potential is there. Carnage was created with no apparent room for that potential. A good writer could find it and use it, but to this day after nearly 20 years of existence, Carnage still has not gotten it and is likely not to at this point. For that reason I can say what needs to be said: Carnage sucks.
 
I agree that Carnage (like almost any character) has the potential to be written well and expanded beyond his original purpose. GG and Doc Ock evolved and their backstories and psychologies were fleshed out much later in development. But the thing is--Carnage was not. The character is the sum of what they are and Carnage has never moved beyond the killing machine he was created to be. There has been no depth dug into to find a likable or at least interesting (because how many serial killers are likable?) character. He has been one-note so there is is no incentive to say he is a good character. Like a person, he is the sum of his actions. The writers could have done more, but they chose not to.

However, the character's entire conception is his problem. He was created as the epitome of what was wrong at Marvel in the 1990s and comics in general. He was Marvel's reaction to McFarlen's Image Comics and why it was called the "Image Age." It was all style and pretty visuals meant to be mass marketed and sold, double sold and triple sold in 15 variant covers at a time. It was all about images and flash in the pan.

Carnage was created as a vehicle for Marvel to use in their flagship at this time. Unlike GG, Doc Ock, Lizard, etc. he was written as a tunnel vision character. And unlike say Kraven, who was brilliantly re-invented into an A-lister in the 1980s with Kraven's Last Hunt, he had no goal as he was created for literally his namesake. Bloody and violent carnage as violence (and sex) is what sold these comics, then. His purpose was to cut people up and be ultra-violent and there was nothing meant for him to do beyond that. Future writers could attempt to give him motivation or rationalization for these insane butcherings (they fell on the old creativity crutch of a bad childhood). Other than that no more has been attempted. He was meant to be eye candy and nothing more and that is all he has ever amounted to.

Also, there is the fact that the character is a shameless rip-off of Joker and excuse to ruin another character who also began on shaky terms, Venom. Venom had a weak origin but room to expand, however with him appearing every other month in Amazing Spider-Man Michillinie became increasingly lazy and started writing him as a one-trick pony. Well instead of expanding him (as Michillinie apparently had plans to kill off Brock and let the symbiote become a free agent), Marvel wanted to milk him some more and turned him into an anti-hero, the Lethal Protector. And worst yet, had him and Spidey say "Let all the murders and death threats on me and my loved ones be bygones."

Well if Venom was the "evil Spidey" who looked really cool...now we're going to need a new one who can be both Spidey and Venom's arch-nemesis. Enter Carnage. A cheap imitation of the Joker without the complexity, ambiguity or menacing mystique of that character. It is the agonizing question of who the Joker is and what he is going to do next and the creativity of his havoc and chaos that makes him the greatest villain in comics. We get a boring origin, name and background on Carnage, aka Kassidy, on day 1. Then you know what he's going to do as soon as he's out. He's going to kill the first person he sees. Whenever he escapes he must first murder his guards or latest warden.

"Kassady, what are you going to do next?"
"Kill you and the next person I see!"

What a compelling villain. :rolleyes: He was created to just be an excuse for another Venom-esque villain now that he was turned into a hero and so there could be blood running through the streets of of Spidey comics. In fact by the end of Maximum Carnage one really has to wonder why Spidey and the Avengers just don't kill this guy, even if it is against their code. Or what about the government? You'd think they'd want to get rid of him the first chance they get (and something tells me he wouldn't get much sympathy from a trial of his peers after killing thousands of New Yorkers). This guy is a huge threat who makes all the heroes look incompetent. But that is done to show you how "cool" he is.

I guess what could describe why Carnage exists and why some fans backlashed against him can be best seen in his original appearances. He appeared in three consecutive issues each one entitled in bold bloody letters on the cover "Carnage" with each subsequent issue adding "A villain so cool we had to say it twice!" or something to that effect. They were shoving this marketing toy down our throats.

Now, I personally like the concept of Venom and liked the character in TAS (and in SM3! :eek: ), but think he has been a waste of space in all comic book forms. But the potential is there. Carnage was created with no apparent room for that potential. A good writer could find it and use it, but to this day after nearly 20 years of existence, Carnage still has not gotten it and is likely not to at this point. For that reason I can say what needs to be said: Carnage sucks.


Even when I was 11 I didn't understand why they kept him alive after Maximum Carnage. Not saying Spider-Man should've killed him, but he should have met his demise. He was nothing more than a cold blooded killer and after MC you couldn't do more with him. He's liks the big scary brute WWF would bring in to feud with Hulk Hogan and threaten his title reign. After the angle's done and Hogan comes out the victor, the antagonist heel is kinda just there on the roster with the ocassional match so we don't forget about him. Just like Klete post MC. His mercy killing in Newvengers was waaaaaaaay overdue.
 
I agree that Carnage (like almost any character) has the potential to be written well and expanded beyond his original purpose. GG and Doc Ock evolved and their backstories and psychologies were fleshed out much later in development. But the thing is--Carnage was not. The character is the sum of what they are and Carnage has never moved beyond the killing machine he was created to be. There has been no depth dug into to find a likable or at least interesting (because how many serial killers are likable?) character. He has been one-note so there is is no incentive to say he is a good character. Like a person, he is the sum of his actions. The writers could have done more, but they chose not to.

However, the character's entire conception is his problem. He was created as the epitome of what was wrong at Marvel in the 1990s and comics in general. He was Marvel's reaction to McFarlen's Image Comics and why it was called the "Image Age." It was all style and pretty visuals meant to be mass marketed and sold, double sold and triple sold in 15 variant covers at a time. It was all about images and flash in the pan.

Carnage was created as a vehicle for Marvel to use in their flagship at this time. Unlike GG, Doc Ock, Lizard, etc. he was written as a tunnel vision character. And unlike say Kraven, who was brilliantly re-invented into an A-lister in the 1980s with Kraven's Last Hunt, he had no goal as he was created for literally his namesake. Bloody and violent carnage as violence (and sex) is what sold these comics, then. His purpose was to cut people up and be ultra-violent and there was nothing meant for him to do beyond that. Future writers could attempt to give him motivation or rationalization for these insane butcherings (they fell on the old creativity crutch of a bad childhood). Other than that no more has been attempted. He was meant to be eye candy and nothing more and that is all he has ever amounted to.

Also, there is the fact that the character is a shameless rip-off of Joker and excuse to ruin another character who also began on shaky terms, Venom. Venom had a weak origin but room to expand, however with him appearing every other month in Amazing Spider-Man Michillinie became increasingly lazy and started writing him as a one-trick pony. Well instead of expanding him (as Michillinie apparently had plans to kill off Brock and let the symbiote become a free agent), Marvel wanted to milk him some more and turned him into an anti-hero, the Lethal Protector. And worst yet, had him and Spidey say "Let all the murders and death threats on me and my loved ones be bygones."

Well if Venom was the "evil Spidey" who looked really cool...now we're going to need a new one who can be both Spidey and Venom's arch-nemesis. Enter Carnage. A cheap imitation of the Joker without the complexity, ambiguity or menacing mystique of that character. It is the agonizing question of who the Joker is and what he is going to do next and the creativity of his havoc and chaos that makes him the greatest villain in comics. We get a boring origin, name and background on Carnage, aka Kassidy, on day 1. Then you know what he's going to do as soon as he's out. He's going to kill the first person he sees. Whenever he escapes he must first murder his guards or latest warden.

"Kassady, what are you going to do next?"
"Kill you and the next person I see!"

What a compelling villain. :rolleyes: He was created to just be an excuse for another Venom-esque villain now that he was turned into a hero and so there could be blood running through the streets of of Spidey comics. In fact by the end of Maximum Carnage one really has to wonder why Spidey and the Avengers just don't kill this guy, even if it is against their code. Or what about the government? You'd think they'd want to get rid of him the first chance they get (and something tells me he wouldn't get much sympathy from a trial of his peers after killing thousands of New Yorkers). This guy is a huge threat who makes all the heroes look incompetent. But that is done to show you how "cool" he is.

I guess what could describe why Carnage exists and why some fans backlashed against him can be best seen in his original appearances. He appeared in three consecutive issues each one entitled in bold bloody letters on the cover "Carnage" with each subsequent issue adding "A villain so cool we had to say it twice!" or something to that effect. They were shoving this marketing toy down our throats.

Now, I personally like the concept of Venom and liked the character in TAS (and in SM3! :eek: ), but think he has been a waste of space in all comic book forms. But the potential is there. Carnage was created with no apparent room for that potential. A good writer could find it and use it, but to this day after nearly 20 years of existence, Carnage still has not gotten it and is likely not to at this point. For that reason I can say what needs to be said: Carnage sucks.
Applause.gif


Carnage is in an everlasting competition with himself to become more one-dimensional in each successive issue. It's as simple as that.
 
I agree that Carnage (like almost any character) has the potential to be written well and expanded beyond his original purpose. GG and Doc Ock evolved and their backstories and psychologies were fleshed out much later in development. But the thing is--Carnage was not. The character is the sum of what they are and Carnage has never moved beyond the killing machine he was created to be. There has been no depth dug into to find a likable or at least interesting (because how many serial killers are likable?) character. He has been one-note so there is is no incentive to say he is a good character. Like a person, he is the sum of his actions. The writers could have done more, but they chose not to.

And I agree with that. I've conceeded that aside from stories like "Mindbomb", writers simply refused to flesh out Carnage's character, and as a result the Canage that we think of today in most people's minds isn't a good character. He wasn't given stories like the death of Gwen Stacy, he wasn't given the chance to grow, or even be completely revised.

I also believe though, that like a person, that character has the potential to be more than it is. The potential to change. Yes, past actions dictate a large part of what makes a person a person, what makes a character a character, but I also believe that the ability to become more than what we begin with has value as well.

However, the character's entire conception is his problem. He was created as the epitome of what was wrong at Marvel in the 1990s and comics in general. He was Marvel's reaction to McFarlen's Image Comics and why it was called the "Image Age." It was all style and pretty visuals meant to be mass marketed and sold, double sold and triple sold in 15 variant covers at a time. It was all about images and flash in the pan.

Carnage was created as a vehicle for Marvel to use in their flagship at this time. Unlike GG, Doc Ock, Lizard, etc. he was written as a tunnel vision character. And unlike say Kraven, who was brilliantly re-invented into an A-lister in the 1980s with Kraven's Last Hunt, he had no goal as he was created for literally his namesake. Bloody and violent carnage as violence (and sex) is what sold these comics, then. His purpose was to cut people up and be ultra-violent and there was nothing meant for him to do beyond that. Future writers could attempt to give him motivation or rationalization for these insane butcherings (they fell on the old creativity crutch of a bad childhood). Other than that no more has been attempted. He was meant to be eye candy and nothing more and that is all he has ever amounted to.

So why is it possible for Kraven to be re-invented, and not Carnage? As you said, attempts were made, but never followed up on, Kraven's re-invention was. I mean, you say Carnage is created for his namesake, to kill, but when Kraven the Hunter started, he was created as a character who wanted to kill Spider-Man to "Prove he was the ultimate hunter". That's not a tunnel vison character? Every appearance is to kill Spider-Man to prove he is a good hunter? Sure Kraven's Last Hunt was great for the character, it added something to him that no one else did. Did anyone see that coming? Think it was possible for a villian like Kraven to have a great story like that? Then why is that not possible for Carnage? Why can't he have his own "last hunt" story? Because the character is too one-dimensional? There is no way to improve him? Really?

Also, there is the fact that the character is a shameless rip-off of Joker and excuse to ruin another character who also began on shaky terms, Venom. Venom had a weak origin but room to expand, however with him appearing every other month in Amazing Spider-Man Michillinie became increasingly lazy and started writing him as a one-trick pony. Well instead of expanding him (as Michillinie apparently had plans to kill off Brock and let the symbiote become a free agent), Marvel wanted to milk him some more and turned him into an anti-hero, the Lethal Protector. And worst yet, had him and Spidey say "Let all the murders and death threats on me and my loved ones be bygones."

Well if Venom was the "evil Spidey" who looked really cool...now we're going to need a new one who can be both Spidey and Venom's arch-nemesis. Enter Carnage. A cheap imitation of the Joker without the complexity, ambiguity or menacing mystique of that character. It is the agonizing question of who the Joker is and what he is going to do next and the creativity of his havoc and chaos that makes him the greatest villain in comics. We get a boring origin, name and background on Carnage, aka Kassidy, on day 1. Then you know what he's going to do as soon as he's out. He's going to kill the first person he sees. Whenever he escapes he must first murder his guards or latest warden.

Yeah, but did the Joker have his ambiguity, mistique and complexity when he first appeared? Or is it the result of almost 70 years of stories? Multiple intepretations and expansions of the character from decades of writers? From his beginning as a prototype of what we have today, to the years of him being a harmless pranskter, to the past 30 years of him in his current interpretation, the Joker had chances to grow and radically change decade after decade. And Carnage can't do that? Radical change is impossible? New interpretation is a pipe dream? Yes, we know what he is now, but by completely dismissing the character you deny him the chance other characters have gotten.

The Joker went from a harmless ham in the 50's and 60's to being in stories like "The Joker's Five Way Revenge", The "Laughing Fish", and "A Death in the Family". Was that a radical change? yes and no, he went back to his roots as a mass killer from the 40's, but something more was added, and developed. Nothing more can be added to Carnage? I can't believe that.

"Kassady, what are you going to do next?"
"Kill you and the next person I see!"

What a compelling villain. :rolleyes: He was created to just be an excuse for another Venom-esque villain now that he was turned into a hero and so there could be blood running through the streets of of Spidey comics. In fact by the end of Maximum Carnage one really has to wonder why Spidey and the Avengers just don't kill this guy, even if it is against their code. Or what about the government? You'd think they'd want to get rid of him the first chance they get (and something tells me he wouldn't get much sympathy from a trial of his peers after killing thousands of New Yorkers). This guy is a huge threat who makes all the heroes look incompetent. But that is done to show you how "cool" he is.

But again, you could look at villians like Doom. Why don't they kill him? Last I heard Iron Man put him in Jail. The guy who screws around with time and space, responsible for mass deaths, and the world would be a better place without got put in Jail? And they expect him not to escape and continue to menace the earth? That doesn't make all the heroes look incompetent?

I guess what could describe why Carnage exists and why some fans backlashed against him can be best seen in his original appearances. He appeared in three consecutive issues each one entitled in bold bloody letters on the cover "Carnage" with each subsequent issue adding "A villain so cool we had to say it twice!" or something to that effect. They were shoving this marketing toy down our throats.

Now, I personally like the concept of Venom and liked the character in TAS (and in SM3! :eek: ), but think he has been a waste of space in all comic book forms. But the potential is there. Carnage was created with no apparent room for that potential. A good writer could find it and use it, but to this day after nearly 20 years of existence, Carnage still has not gotten it and is likely not to at this point. For that reason I can say what needs to be said: Carnage sucks.


As I stated, I believe Carnage does have room for that potential. We have seen a scant few examples, and even more could be added. Given time and resources, I would do it myself. I have ideas, others do as well. They see the potential others can't or refuse to see. They know that like Kraven, like the Joker, Carnage can have a story, an interpretation, a radical realization that will suprise you, that you didn't see coming.

But, I do appreciate your comments, this is what must be done to improve the character, identify the problems, and rectify them. Even though you may believe they cannot, your insight is valuable as a way to create what the people DO want, to write a story that will knock thier socks off, to do what was thought impossible.

Am I going to change your opinion? No. If anything you're even more convinced that I am wrong, but that gives me the drive to prove you wrong, to solidify my opinion even further as well. At the end of the day, it just a comic book, but it's these conflicting passions, the positive and the negative that make this industry so great. That a character can have such a polarizaing effect on people, incite such lenghty writing is a testament to the strenght of imagination and personal tastes.
 
As far as Joker goes DC's continuity has always been shaky at best. They've tried to clean things up, but still maintain their ''rich history'' several times, but still suffer from it. What you want done with Carnage calls for such a radical change that he won't even be the same character you wanna maintain. That really doesn't make a lot of sense. Although for what it's worth maybe Toxin has the potential to be a decent symbiote.
 
Carnage was cool very briefly, but comes across as a poor version of the Joker, in my opinion...

Even in the first Batman/Spider-Man team up in the 90's, I believe the Joker schools Carnage a bit as far as craziness goes...

:woot: :woot: :woot:

I'm not sure the symbiotes have much of a future at Marvel beyond the new Venom reboot happening this summer...

:huh:
 
As far as Joker goes DC's continuity has always been shaky at best. They've tried to clean things up, but still maintain their ''rich history'' several times, but still suffer from it. What you want done with Carnage calls for such a radical change that he won't even be the same character you wanna maintain. That really doesn't make a lot of sense. Although for what it's worth maybe Toxin has the potential to be a decent symbiote.

But really, and ideally, radical change won't be nessesary to help the character grow. The concepts and traits of the character, such as his appreciation of violence as art, him being the embodiment of chaos, and the core of the character, a man who believes chaos is the natural order of the world and will do anything to start and continue that chaos, are topics I discussed in my original post, and are traits that are already an established part of the character since his inception, and further explained in 1996 when "MindBomb" and "It's a wonderful life" came out and helped flesh those ideas out.

At least to me, these are interesting concepts and can be further fleshed out and elaborated upon to improve the character, inflict minor changes, but still retaining the core essence of what Carnage is and why he does what he does. I think some really great stories could be written if someone looks at the already established history and traits of the character and chooses to exploit and embrace them, instead of choosing the easy way out and ignoring the depth privided to him from stories like "Mindbomb", and writing him as a kill-machine for a slug-fest comic.

After all, the two best Carnage stories ever written had no superheroes, no major "real" fight scenes, and took place almost entirely in Carnage's cell, and they managed to make him a horrid monster, a broken man with a fire in his brain and thoughts more terrifying than his actions ever could be. And we pray that his idea of the world would never come true... if it hasn't already.
 
I think Carnage is awesome. I have always loved the Carnage character, now I don't like what they have done with him lately, but this character could be just awesome. If the Spidey writers had any guts I would write Carnage as the true killer he is, and let the Spidey books take a real dark turn. Let Carnage just go crazy, let him kill everyone around him, and then let Spidey have to deal with it. Carnage should be one of the focal points of Spidey's rogue gallery.
 
.... Always gotta love how these types come crawling out of that same sewer anytime anyone even mentions the name "Carnage." OMG, its like someone summoned Beetlejuice or something. Carnage, Carnage, Carnage!

And *poof* out come the trolls.

Carnage does have fans. Begin to deal. Snide remarks or childishnesses such as the above are not going to change anyone's opinion; nor do they make the proponent look any cooler. Which is what I think such attempts are REALLY about: trying to look cool.

Not me of course, I personally think Carnage just sucks.
He has DARK KNIGHT potential but you can thank the writers for screwing it up....they don't even care about his continuity anymore. bendis even thinks he's a vampire...:hehe:

carnage could be the ultimate threat. there is no one willing to kill like him in spidey books. THAT is how you stir up controversy and make things interesting without destroying 20 years of history. i think they just went about him wrong and gave up on him.
 
Not me of course, I personally think Carnage just sucks.
He has DARK KNIGHT potential but you can thank the writers for screwing it up....they don't even care about his continuity anymore. bendis even thinks he's a vampire...:hehe:

carnage could be the ultimate threat. there is no one willing to kill like him in spidey books. THAT is how you stir up controversy and make things interesting without destroying 20 years of history. i think they just went about him wrong and gave up on him.


Initiative heroes are allowed to kill. Carnage wouldn't last ten seconds if he went on another rampage.
 
I personally have on problem with Carnage, as he was in the beginning. I just take issue with what he became: A killing machine that couldn't be stopped by anyone, including the Silver Surfer. Once that happened, it all went south.

Personally, I think they should have handled him like they did in th first Carnage arc: A deranged serial killer with a symbiote. Very powerful, still vulnerable, and unpredictable. As soon as Maximum Carnage began, all of that went down hill.

Give me a sly, malicious Carnage who stalks his vitims and then tortures and kills them as opposed to a Carnage who walks up and down the streets of New York with a bunch of C-listers and kills random people.

So true.

Everything they turned Carnage into lately is really stupid. But his early appearance, the fear of a already serial killer with help of a symbiote is better then what they have used him for.
 
I'm not sure the symbiotes have much of a future at Marvel beyond the new Venom reboot happening this summer...

Which i hope is true. When symbiotes became rampant, and it wasnt' a specialy case with just Venom or even Carnage anymore, it wore its welcome very fast.

If the only representation of a symboite is Venom, then it becomes special again i feel.
 

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