MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

[Lord]

Marvel claims that they want to make a female-led superhero movie. They have a female superhero who's already been introduced and has wide public exposure. It would not be too expensive to make a movie about this character. The opportunity for Marvel to put it's money where it's mouth is in regards to this subject is staring it in the face. Also, you know what else is a "smaller property," Guardians of the Galaxy. They're even less well-known that Black Widow is and yet they're getting a movie so that argument doesn't hold much water.

I know they are, but they also open a door to Marvel cosmic, which is what they are going to have to focus more as Thanos aproaches. It's a new franchise with characters we haven't seen before, Black Widow would be just a spin-off, and Marvel still has a lot of other franchises to explore before starting to make spin-offs

I think you people are way too worried when it comes to Marvel, Black Panther and Captain Marvel are just around the corner along with Inhumans, we'll just have to wait. After Dr.Strange they seem to be the most likelly next films, BP has expecially been teased for as long as Dr.Strange.

I don't want to be the devil's advocate, since i also think most of their films are just good but nothing extraordinary, and i prefer the DC universe itself, but Marvel is way ahead of DC, first they gave all their major heroes their oun films (Iron Man, Thor and Captain America weren't all A-Listers to comic fans as a whole, but inside the MU itself they were definitelly A-listers), and now they're going to expand upon their smaller franchises. We just have to wait. It's not like DC, whose 3rd biggest character is female and they keep making excuses for not giving her a movie, she deserves to have her oun film first, yet they're going to introduce her as a cameo.

 

[Lord]

a Cpt. Marvel movie without focus entirerly on Mar-Vell is an idiotic idea. He IS Marvel, like Pym is Ant-Man and Stark is Iron Man

If he's done he needs to appear while Thanos is still around, wasn't he the one who originally killed him?

 

[Dasher10]

a Cpt. Marvel movie without focus entirerly on Mar-Vell is an idiotic idea. He IS Marvel, like Pym is Ant-Man and Stark is Iron Man

He's been dead since the 80s. After that, Carol took over his rogues gallery even though Carol was put on the backburner herself due to the Marcus fiasco.

But starting in the late 90s, Kurt Busiek reintroduced her to the Avengers and she remained on the team through Geoff Johns' run. She thankfully only appeared in one issue when Chuck Austen was writing the book. She was integral to the Avengers during the first few Bendis issues, then after they broke up, she got her own series where Brian Reed really grew her character, part of the way through Bendis started writing her again as the co-lead of Mighty Avengers alongside Iron Man.

Once Reed left to write Halo, Carol took only a one-year break, during which, Bendis made her an integral character of the second volume of Mighty Avengers, then Kelly Sue Deconnick began writing her both in a solo title as well as Avengers Assemble.

Point being, Carol's been omnipresent for the past decade and a half without taking a hiatus from publication. This combined with lengthy runs by Busiek, Johns, Reed, Bendis and Deconnick without a constantly shifting writer on board have made her at the very least a B-lister around where Iron Man was before 2008.

This isn't taking into account her late 70s appearances under Chris Claremont, nor her Binary days with the X-Men in the 80s.

There is a TON of source material to draw from along with her appearances in video games and cartoons. I see no reason for Marvel to do an Inhumans movie before Captain Marvel. I'm not hating on Doctor Strange or Black Panther and yes, both of those should be a part of Phase 3 as well along with Hulk, Captain America and Thor sequels but there is nothing wrong with stretching Phase 3 out a little bit longer to give the MCU more room to breathe.

I mean if it's two a year then we still get

2015
Ant-Man

2016
Hulk 2 (May 6)
Doctor Strange (July 8)


2017
Black Panther (May 5)
Captain America 3 (November)

2018
Captain Marvel (July)
Thor 3 (December)

2019
Guardians 2 (May)
Avengers 3 (August)

But if things were brought up to three a year, it's still lengthy, particularly when you consider that Marvel is still able to push out two Summer 2015 films. By mid-2014 there won't be anything filming once you consider that Age of Ultron and Ant-Man will both be wrapped shortly after Cap 2 wraps up.

If the production schedule doesn't slip and nothing becomes a troubled production, then three a year is clearly doable, particularly given that 2016, much like 2015 has two summer releases and nothing for the holidays.

2015
Ant-Man

2016
Hulk 2 (May 6)
Black Panther (July 8)
Doctor Strange (October)


2017
Cap 3 (May 5)
Captain Marvel (August)
Thor 3 (December)

2018
Guardians 2 (May)
Avengers 3 (August)

Unlike what a lot of people have been saying here, I've never been against Black Panther, I just view Inhumans as a property that can be saved for Phase 4. The Inhumans only have ONE villain and that's Maximus as they've never been able to maintain their own series for a significant amount of issues and with the exception of Crystal joining the Avengers, most of their crossovers were with the X-Men and Fantastic Four, both of which are at Fox.

Yes, Carol did leech Traveler from Spider-Man, Yon-Rogg from the first Captain Marvel and Moonstone and MODOK from Captain America. Except Mar-Vell is dead and will probably never come back, Traveler was regarded as one of the worst parts of the Clone Saga, Moonstone lacked any real connection to Captain America and MODOK spent just as much time harassing the Fantastic Four and Iron Man if not more than Cap before settling on fighting Carol.

Oh, and Cru Doomsday Man 100% Ms. Marvel villains and both the X-Men and Guardians of the Galaxy were the ones to leach Deathbird from Carol.

My point is that Carol works far better than the Inhumans for a film as she has more sequel potential, was part of the Avengers far longer than Crystal and she's not a new ensemble like the Inhumans which cuts down on cost.

Now when looking at any of the other properties that Marvel Studios owns, Power Pack will probably be animated like Big Hero Six, Moon Knight, Runaways and Punisher will probably be TV series and Blade and Ghost Rider should come after Doctor Strange (and Kevin Feige agrees) so that means that they won't appear until Phase 4. Black Widow is really the only other possibility for a Phase 3 film. Keep in mind that Cap 2 is almost as much of a Black Widow film as it is a Cap sequel so I'm not 100% certain that BW will get her own film in the near future but she's the only alternative to Carol out there.

X-Men, Silver Surfer, Alpha Flight, Fantastic Four, Starjammers and Deadpool are over at Fox and Sony owns Spider-Man, Black Cat and Silver Sable.

After that it's just spin-offs like War Machine, Hawkeye, She-Hulk and Winter Soldier but Phase 4 will probably be so packed that I can only see one or two of them earning a slot at most. Carol Danvers is one of the few solo heroes that can still be made into a solo film. Marvel would be truly dumb to not take advantage of her.

 

[Panther X]

If he's done he needs to appear while Thanos is still around, wasn't he the one who originally killed him?

Wasn't Ant-Man around when Ultron was created?

Weren't the Avengers there when Captain America was discovered?

I think by this stage we can throw comic book continuity out the window.

 

[Lord]

I doubt Marvel would wait so long for Thor 3 and Captain America 3, they will probably get the 2016 and 2017 spots respectivelly

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

He's been dead since the 80s. After that, Carol took over his rogues gallery even though Carol was put on the backburner herself due to the Marcus fiasco.

But starting in the late 90s, Kurt Busiek reintroduced her to the Avengers and she remained on the team through Geoff Johns' run. She thankfully only appeared in one issue when Chuck Austen was writing the book. She was integral to the Avengers during the first few Bendis issues, then after they broke up, she got her own series where Brian Reed really grew her character, part of the way through Bendis started writing her again as the co-lead of Mighty Avengers alongside Iron Man.

Once Reed left to write Halo, Carol took only a one-year break, during which, Bendis made her an integral character of the second volume of Mighty Avengers, then Kelly Sue Deconnick began writing her both in a solo title as well as Avengers Assemble.

Point being, Carol's been omnipresent for the past decade and a half without taking a hiatus from publication. This combined with lengthy runs by Busiek, Johns, Reed, Bendis and Deconnick without a constantly shifting writer on board have made her at the very least a B-lister around where Iron Man was before 2008.

This isn't taking into account her late 70s appearances under Chris Claremont, nor her Binary days with the X-Men in the 80s.

There is a TON of source material to draw from along with her appearances in video games and cartoons. I see no reason for Marvel to do an Inhumans movie before Captain Marvel. I'm not hating on Doctor Strange or Black Panther and yes, both of those should be a part of Phase 3 as well along with Hulk, Captain America and Thor sequels but there is nothing wrong with stretching Phase 3 out a little bit longer to give the MCU more room to breathe.

I mean if it's two a year then we still get

2015
Ant-Man

2016
Hulk 2 (May 6)
Doctor Strange (July 8)


2017
Black Panther (May 5)
Captain America 3 (November)

2018
Captain Marvel (July)
Thor 3 (December)

2019
Guardians 2 (May)
Avengers 3 (August)

But if things were brought up to three a year, it's still lengthy, particularly when you consider that Marvel is still able to push out two Summer 2015 films. By mid-2014 there won't be anything filming once you consider that Age of Ultron and Ant-Man will both be wrapped shortly after Cap 2 wraps up.

If the production schedule doesn't slip and nothing becomes a troubled production, then three a year is clearly doable, particularly given that 2016, much like 2015 has two summer releases and nothing for the holidays.

2015
Ant-Man

2016
Hulk 2 (May 6)
Black Panther (July 8)
Doctor Strange (October)


2017
Cap 3 (May 5)
Captain Marvel (August)
Thor 3 (December)

2018
Guardians 2 (May)
Avengers 3 (August)

Unlike what a lot of people have been saying here, I've never been against Black Panther, I just view Inhumans as a property that can be saved for Phase 4. The Inhumans only have ONE villain and that's Maximus as they've never been able to maintain their own series for a significant amount of issues and with the exception of Crystal joining the Avengers, most of their crossovers were with the X-Men and Fantastic Four, both of which are at Fox.

Yes, Carol did leech Traveler from Spider-Man, Yon-Rogg from the first Captain Marvel and Moonstone and MODOK from Captain America. Except Mar-Vell is dead and will probably never come back, Traveler was regarded as one of the worst parts of the Clone Saga, Moonstone lacked any real connection to Captain America and MODOK spent just as much time harassing the Fantastic Four and Iron Man if not more than Cap before settling on fighting Carol.

Oh, and Cru Doomsday Man 100% Ms. Marvel villains and both the X-Men and Guardians of the Galaxy were the ones to leach Deathbird from Carol.

My point is that Carol works far better than the Inhumans for a film as she has more sequel potential, was part of the Avengers far longer than Crystal and she's not a new ensemble like the Inhumans which cuts down on cost.

Now when looking at any of the other properties that Marvel Studios owns, Power Pack will probably be animated like Big Hero Six, Moon Knight, Runaways and Punisher will probably be TV series and Blade and Ghost Rider should come after Doctor Strange (and Kevin Feige agrees) so that means that they won't appear until Phase 4. Black Widow is really the only other possibility for a Phase 3 film. Keep in mind that Cap 2 is almost as much of a Black Widow film as it is a Cap sequel so I'm not 100% certain that BW will get her own film in the near future but she's the only alternative to Carol out there.

X-Men, Silver Surfer, Alpha Flight, Fantastic Four, Starjammers and Deadpool are over at Fox and Sony owns Spider-Man, Black Cat and Silver Sable.

After that it's just spin-offs like War Machine, Hawkeye, She-Hulk and Winter Soldier but Phase 4 will probably be so packed that I can only see one or two of them earning a slot at most. Carol Danvers is one of the few solo heroes that can still be made into a solo film. Marvel would be truly dumb to not take advantage of her.

thank you for the unneeded history lesson, but just because you grew up with carol doesn't mean she's anymore cpt. marvel than rhodey is iron man or bucky is cap

 

[DrCosmic]

a Cpt. Marvel movie without focus entirerly on Mar-Vell is an idiotic idea. He IS Marvel, like Pym is Ant-Man and Stark is Iron Man

Carol is Captain Marvel because she's Captain Marvel in Captain Marvel. It doesn't hurt that Mar-Vell hasn't been Captain Marvel for thirty years. Her not being your Captain Marvel has nothing to do with whether or not she's Captain Marvel to everyone else, including Mar-Vell. So calling it idiotic is simply incorrect. Reprehensible (with the implication being: to you) is a much more responsible use of language.

And is Scott Lang not a superhero? Because if he's not Ant-Man, who is he then? I'm sorry, dude. "There can only be one" is Highlander, not Marvel. Here's what the one true Captain America thinks of this "one true" business:

Nope, that's the reason Wonder Woman wasn't made, the reason Black Widow hasn't been made is the same reason Hawkeye wasn't made, both characters are "smaller properties" and characters whose first appearance in the comics wasn't even in their oun titles, and only got that after many appearances in other books. They also served as fill-ins for Ant-Man and Wasp, characters who weren't in the Avengers because they didn't have their movie in Phase I

WW is a convoluted character with incompatible incarnations in the same continuities. There's a reason her comics almost never sell well, and rarely get any critical praise. No other A-lister character can really say that. Almost no character can.

To me, she's a character with untapped potential, which is quite a feat for a character as long standing and visually recognizable.

I still think a Captain Marvel should be based on her origin tales from 'Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes', take the Avengers out of the story & you could have a really cool movie.

That would be smart. The issue though, I think, is that the basic premise is not too dissimilar to the Avengers movies, alien invasion and all that. So why wouldn't any of the Avengers show up?

Marvel claims that they want to make a female-led superhero movie. They have a female superhero who's already been introduced and has wide public exposure. It would not be too expensive to make a movie about this character. The opportunity for Marvel to put it's money where it's mouth is in regards to this subject is staring it in the face. Also, you know what else is a "smaller property," Guardians of the Galaxy. They're even less well-known that Black Widow is and yet they're getting a movie so that argument doesn't hold much water.

Ouch.

But again, the issue is that Black Widow doesn't strategically expand the Universe. She just goes deeper into Cap's territory. GOTG expands the Universe, that's why she was chosen, that's a big part of why Feige has his heart set on Dr. Strange, it's a new corner of the Universe.

The challenge with the non white male characters is that, even in comics, they're rarely used to explore new corners of the Universe. Carol certainly isn't. Black Panther has a very small corner to himself. So in that sense, GOTG is actually a larger property in terms of scope and potential. It covers more ground.

 

[KangConquers]

He's been dead since the 80s. After that, Carol took over his rogues gallery even though Carol was put on the backburner herself due to the Marcus fiasco.

But starting in the late 90s, Kurt Busiek reintroduced her to the Avengers and she remained on the team through Geoff Johns' run. She thankfully only appeared in one issue when Chuck Austen was writing the book. She was integral to the Avengers during the first few Bendis issues, then after they broke up, she got her own series where Brian Reed really grew her character, part of the way through Bendis started writing her again as the co-lead of Mighty Avengers alongside Iron Man.

Once Reed left to write Halo, Carol took only a one-year break, during which, Bendis made her an integral character of the second volume of Mighty Avengers, then Kelly Sue Deconnick began writing her both in a solo title as well as Avengers Assemble.

Point being, Carol's been omnipresent for the past decade and a half without taking a hiatus from publication. This combined with lengthy runs by Busiek, Johns, Reed, Bendis and Deconnick without a constantly shifting writer on board have made her at the very least a B-lister around where Iron Man was before 2008.

This isn't taking into account her late 70s appearances under Chris Claremont, nor her Binary days with the X-Men in the 80s.

There is a TON of source material to draw from along with her appearances in video games and cartoons. I see no reason for Marvel to do an Inhumans movie before Captain Marvel. I'm not hating on Doctor Strange or Black Panther and yes, both of those should be a part of Phase 3 as well along with Hulk, Captain America and Thor sequels but there is nothing wrong with stretching Phase 3 out a little bit longer to give the MCU more room to breathe.

I mean if it's two a year then we still get

2015
Ant-Man

2016
Hulk 2 (May 6)
Doctor Strange (July 8)


2017
Black Panther (May 5)
Captain America 3 (November)

2018
Captain Marvel (July)
Thor 3 (December)

2019
Guardians 2 (May)
Avengers 3 (August)

But if things were brought up to three a year, it's still lengthy, particularly when you consider that Marvel is still able to push out two Summer 2015 films. By mid-2014 there won't be anything filming once you consider that Age of Ultron and Ant-Man will both be wrapped shortly after Cap 2 wraps up.

If the production schedule doesn't slip and nothing becomes a troubled production, then three a year is clearly doable, particularly given that 2016, much like 2015 has two summer releases and nothing for the holidays.

2015
Ant-Man

2016
Hulk 2 (May 6)
Black Panther (July 8)
Doctor Strange (October)


2017
Cap 3 (May 5)
Captain Marvel (August)
Thor 3 (December)

2018
Guardians 2 (May)
Avengers 3 (August)

Unlike what a lot of people have been saying here, I've never been against Black Panther, I just view Inhumans as a property that can be saved for Phase 4. The Inhumans only have ONE villain and that's Maximus as they've never been able to maintain their own series for a significant amount of issues and with the exception of Crystal joining the Avengers, most of their crossovers were with the X-Men and Fantastic Four, both of which are at Fox.

Yes, Carol did leech Traveler from Spider-Man, Yon-Rogg from the first Captain Marvel and Moonstone and MODOK from Captain America. Except Mar-Vell is dead and will probably never come back, Traveler was regarded as one of the worst parts of the Clone Saga, Moonstone lacked any real connection to Captain America and MODOK spent just as much time harassing the Fantastic Four and Iron Man if not more than Cap before settling on fighting Carol.

Oh, and Cru Doomsday Man 100% Ms. Marvel villains and both the X-Men and Guardians of the Galaxy were the ones to leach Deathbird from Carol.

My point is that Carol works far better than the Inhumans for a film as she has more sequel potential, was part of the Avengers far longer than Crystal and she's not a new ensemble like the Inhumans which cuts down on cost.

Now when looking at any of the other properties that Marvel Studios owns, Power Pack will probably be animated like Big Hero Six, Moon Knight, Runaways and Punisher will probably be TV series and Blade and Ghost Rider should come after Doctor Strange (and Kevin Feige agrees) so that means that they won't appear until Phase 4. Black Widow is really the only other possibility for a Phase 3 film. Keep in mind that Cap 2 is almost as much of a Black Widow film as it is a Cap sequel so I'm not 100% certain that BW will get her own film in the near future but she's the only alternative to Carol out there.

X-Men, Silver Surfer, Alpha Flight, Fantastic Four, Starjammers and Deadpool are over at Fox and Sony owns Spider-Man, Black Cat and Silver Sable.

After that it's just spin-offs like War Machine, Hawkeye, She-Hulk and Winter Soldier but Phase 4 will probably be so packed that I can only see one or two of them earning a slot at most. Carol Danvers is one of the few solo heroes that can still be made into a solo film. Marvel would be truly dumb to not take advantage of her.

I don't feel like going point by point and quoting everything, but I will address some key disagreements:|


1. Carol is nowhere near as big now as Iron Man was 2007. Iron Man has been a central character to the comics for his entire existence, even when his pop culture saturation was low. Carol has always been a background character. Don't believe me? Where is Carol's animated series? Her action figure line? Her video game? Her 50 years of uninterrupted solo stories. Iron Man had all of those prior to Robert Downey Jr bringing Tony Stark to life in 2008.

2. The Inhumans have quite a few villains, actually, and all of them are unique to their brand. Sure, these villains have clashed with the Avengers, and the Guardians of the Galaxy, but they're actually Inhuman characters. Maximus, The Unnamed, Maelstrom...in addition to great built in storylines like War of Kings, the Inhumans have a long written history involving the Kree, and unique concepts like Terragenesis. Carol has no important story arcs that aren't "Kick the dog" stories, and no unique brand elements.

3. You greatly exaggerate Carol's attachment to many of these rogues.

MODOK last appeared in a Ms. Marvel comic 8 years ago. He's since appeared in about 12 Hulk comics, 3 Captain America comics, and several Avengers comics. He's in no way shape or form uniquely hers, and has only been in 5 Ms. Marvel issues...compared to 30 Captain America, 27 Hulk, and 10 Iron Man issues. You argue MODOK has no connection to Cap, but he has just as little to Ms. Marvel, and has fought her a fraction as many times.

Moonstone had one arc with Ms. Marvel. Granted, Moonstone's biggest claim to fame is being a Thunderbolt, not being a villain for Captain America, Hulk, Avengers, or Ms. Marvel. It was being a Thunderbolt and a Dark Avenger that took her from D-list villain status to being a noteworthy character.

Deathbird and Doomsday man I'll give you, but neither characters is exactly knocking it out of the park for me.

4. Almost every single thing you said about Carol being a constant fixture in the Marvel Universe can be applied to seven other characters Marvel owns the rights to. It's worth noting that Carol can't keep a book for longer than 3 or 4 years. She might be on more of a modern hot streak than some characters, but in the long run, Adam Warlock, Captain Marvel, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Moon Knight and other characters have all had equally long or longer solo runs than any of Carol's volumes.

 

[KangConquers]

Ouch.

But again, the issue is that Black Widow doesn't strategically expand the Universe. She just goes deeper into Cap's territory. GOTG expands the Universe, that's why she was chosen, that's a big part of why Feige has his heart set on Dr. Strange, it's a new corner of the Universe.

The challenge with the non white male characters is that, even in comics, they're rarely used to explore new corners of the Universe. Carol certainly isn't. Black Panther has a very small corner to himself. So in that sense, GOTG is actually a larger property in terms of scope and potential. It covers more ground.

This Guardians of the Galaxy have inherited what is basically one franchise: The Marvel Cosmic Universe. That franchise has been passed from hero to hero: Captain Marvel, Adam Warlock, Silver Surfer, Quasar, Nova and now Guardians of the Galaxy. The Guardians are being used to open us up to a universe of abstracts, alien races, talking planets, celestials etc.

The key advantage Guardians of the Galaxy has over, say Nova, is it's a team movie. Instead of doing a solo movie with a generic, Hal Jordan-esque type character, we're basically getting the Dirty Dozen in space. This helps the film dodge the generic solo movie bullet (******* inherits powers, becomes good man, gets girl), and allows for more complex story-telling opportunities.

GotG, was and is, in my opinion, the most unique and dynamic property marvel had to offer post Avengers, and that trumped them being less famous than many more generic characters.

 

[Loki882]

I don't feel like going point by point and quoting everything, but I will address some key disagreements:|


1. Carol is nowhere near as big now as Iron Man was 2007. Iron Man has been a central character to the comics for his entire existence, even when his pop culture saturation was low. Carol has always been a background character. Don't believe me? Where is Carol's animated series? Her action figure line? Her video game? Her 50 years of uninterrupted solo stories. Iron Man had all of those prior to Robert Downey Jr bringing Tony Stark to life in 2008.

2. The Inhumans have quite a few villains, actually, and all of them are unique to their brand. Sure, these villains have clashed with the Avengers, and the Guardians of the Galaxy, but they're actually Inhuman characters. Maximus, The Unnamed, Maelstrom...in addition to great built in storylines like War of Kings, the Inhumans have a long written history involving the Kree, and unique concepts like Terragenesis. Carol has no important story arcs that aren't "Kick the dog" stories, and no unique brand elements.

3. You greatly exaggerate Carol's attachment to many of these rogues.

MODOK last appeared in a Ms. Marvel comic 8 years ago. He's since appeared in about 12 Hulk comics, 3 Captain America comics, and several Avengers comics. He's in no way shape or form uniquely hers, and has only been in 5 Ms. Marvel issues...compared to 30 Captain America, 27 Hulk, and 10 Iron Man issues. You argue MODOK has no connection to Cap, but he has just as little to Ms. Marvel, and has fought her a fraction as many times.

Moonstone had one arc with Ms. Marvel. Granted, Moonstone's biggest claim to fame is being a Thunderbolt, not being a villain for Captain America, Hulk, Avengers, or Ms. Marvel. It was being a Thunderbolt and a Dark Avenger that took her from D-list villain status to being a noteworthy character.

Deathbird and Doomsday man I'll give you, but neither characters is exactly knocking it out of the park for me.

4. Almost every single thing you said about Carol being a constant fixture in the Marvel Universe can be applied to seven other characters Marvel owns the rights to. It's worth noting that Carol can't keep a book for longer than 3 or 4 years. She might be on more of a modern hot streak than some characters, but in the long run, Adam Warlock, Captain Marvel, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Moon Knight and other characters have all had equally long or longer solo runs than any of Carol's volumes.

And all of that is completely and utterly irrelevant since this is the FILM universe aimed at the GA, most of whom have never read a comic book. Just because something happened one way in the comics DOES NOT mean that they'll necessarily happened that way in the films. Some people REALLY don't seem to get this concept.

 

[Loki882]

Carol is Captain Marvel because she's Captain Marvel in Captain Marvel. It doesn't hurt that Mar-Vell hasn't been Captain Marvel for thirty years. Her not being your Captain Marvel has nothing to do with whether or not she's Captain Marvel to everyone else, including Mar-Vell. So calling it idiotic is simply incorrect. Reprehensible (with the implication being: to you) is a much more responsible use of language.

And is Scott Lang not a superhero? Because if he's not Ant-Man, who is he then? I'm sorry, dude. "There can only be one" is Highlander, not Marvel. Here's what the one true Captain America thinks of this "one true" business:

WW is a convoluted character with incompatible incarnations in the same continuities. There's a reason her comics almost never sell well, and rarely get any critical praise. No other A-lister character can really say that. Almost no character can.

To me, she's a character with untapped potential, which is quite a feat for a character as long standing and visually recognizable.



That would be smart. The issue though, I think, is that the basic premise is not too dissimilar to the Avengers movies, alien invasion and all that. So why wouldn't any of the Avengers show up?



Ouch.

But again, the issue is that Black Widow doesn't strategically expand the Universe. She just goes deeper into Cap's territory. GOTG expands the Universe, that's why she was chosen, that's a big part of why Feige has his heart set on Dr. Strange, it's a new corner of the Universe.

The challenge with the non white male characters is that, even in comics, they're rarely used to explore new corners of the Universe. Carol certainly isn't. Black Panther has a very small corner to himself. So in that sense, GOTG is actually a larger property in terms of scope and potential. It covers more ground.

If that's Feige's attitude, then fine. But then don't give the audience the run-around with all the "we REALLY want to do a female-led Marvel film" bs if it's nothing but talk and they won't actually act on it.

 

[KangConquers]

If that's Feige's attitude, then fine. But then don't give the audience the run-around with all the "we REALLY want to do a female-led Marvel film" bs if it's nothing but talk and they won't actually act on it.

Here's what I don't get...If it takes Marvel until say, 2020 to deliver a female solo fim, how have they lied to you?

This is a Phase 3 discusson, and some of us don't think Ms. Marvel will be a big phase 3 priority. Feige has been chirping about Doctor Strange since 201, and we won't see him until 2016 at the earliest. These movies take time, and the company has in no way indicated that they plan to up their film total to more than 2 a year. Sequels to highly successful movies, and films that expand the Marvel Universe will take precedence.

Let's get this out of the way. Carol isn't as strong of a character as Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Bruce Banner or Thor...she's also not as unique of a property as Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man, Doctor Strange or Black Panther. That's why we'll have to wait for a Ms. Marvel film...not because Marvel's afraid of making a film starring a woman, but because their flagship heroine is a lukewarm, piecemeal cypher.

 

[DrCosmic]

Ouch. Jeez. Ouch.

To echo though, the reason Carol is the way she is is because almost no one has ever done something cool and original with a solo heroine in comic books. They're all spinoffs or supporting cast, and have been for the entire history of the thing. Even Wonder Woman was conceived as a feminine Superman. Every so often people forge great stories from there, but the foundation is always shaky, especially in comparison to the long running male heroes who aren't ever spinoffs or supporting cast.

So while Marvel Studios may indeed want a female solo film, what they really want is a good one, and that requires more than just some of us liking the character. They need someone to come and make Carol better than she's ever been, to write the defining classic Carol story by piecing together things that are not widely beloved or classic. In the Ms. Marvel thread we couldn't even agree on the Uniform.

 

[KangConquers]

Ouch. Jeez. Ouch.

To echo though, the reason Carol is the way she is is because almost no one has ever done something cool and original with a solo heroine in comic books. They're all spinoffs or supporting cast, and have been for the entire history of the thing. Even Wonder Woman was conceived as a feminine Superman. Every so often people forge great stories from there, but the foundation is always shaky, especially in comparison to the long running male heroes who aren't ever spinoffs or supporting cast.

So while Marvel Studios may indeed want a female solo film, what they really want is a good one, and that requires more than just some of us liking the character. They need someone to come and make Carol better than she's ever been, to write the defining classic Carol story by piecing together things that are not widely beloved or classic. In the Ms. Marvel thread we couldn't even agree on the Uniform.

Exactly. There's no such thing as "classic Ms. Marvel." The only reason Ms. Marvel isn't at Wonder Man levels of obscurity is she's female. She's not as integral to the Avengers mythos as Hank Pym, Wasp, Hawkeye, Vision, Scarlet Witch, or Quicksilver, and she's not as strong as a solo character as Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, or Doctor Strange.

The MCU could never use Ms. Marvel, and the franchise would be no worse off for it. If Marvel was or becomes serious about her as a potential film franchise, I suspect we'll see some events where she takes more than a bit part in the next 3-4 years.

For the record, I DO like the current Captain Marvel run, but it takes time to create a solid foundation for a character.

 

[Dasher10]

Exactly. There's no such thing as "classic Ms. Marvel." The only reason Ms. Marvel isn't at Wonder Man levels of obscurity is she's female. She's not as integral to the Avengers mythos as Hank Pym, Wasp, Hawkeye, Vision, Scarlet Witch, or Quicksilver, and she's not as strong as a solo character as Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, or Doctor Strange.

The MCU could never use Ms. Marvel, and the franchise would be no worse off for it. If Marvel was or becomes serious about her as a potential film franchise, I suspect we'll see some events where she takes more than a bit part in the next 3-4 years.

For the record, I DO like the current Captain Marvel run, but it takes time to create a solid foundation for a character.

You act like the first volume of Mighty Avengers and Brian Reed's runs were absolute crap.

 

[metaphysician]

Speaking of Minority led superhero flicks, if this guy is cast, a solo flick is pretty much guaranteed...

http://nukethefridge.com/2013/12/27...hes-playing-green-lantern-superman-vs-batman/

And DC would have beaten Marvel to the punch.

Only if Superman vs Batman went over well, and the Green Lantern part within it also went over well. They can cast the best actor in the world, but if the audience doesn't care because its a badly written part, or a just generally bad movie? Its not going to spawn a spinoff. Especially an expensive spinoff.

 

[metaphysician]

Even Wonder Woman was conceived as a feminine Superman.

Eh, no, be fair. Wonder Woman was conceived as something a lot more complicated than "feminine Superman."

Its just that said thing was inextricably tied into Martson's philosophical ideas of "better living through BDSM", so its almost entirely unsalable to the modern audience.

 

[KangConquers]

You act like the first volume of Mighty Avengers and Brian Reed's runs were absolute crap.

The first volume of Mighty Avengers was absolute crap. Improperly voiced characters, stupid heroes hunting heroes crap, Venom bombs, Sentry. Bendis's Avengers run was by and large garbage. I'd recommend Kurt Busiek, Roger Stern, Steve Englehardt, and Roy Thomas's runs to you as definitive "great" Avengers runs.

Brian Reed's run was a supporting book. All it was used to do was provide an extra set of eyes on whatever major story arc was going on...it spun out of House of M, spun into Civil War, leapt right into Secret Invasion, and ended during Dark Reign. It was pure filler, just like the titular character.

 

[Dasher10]

The first volume of Mighty Avengers was absolute crap. Improperly voiced characters, stupid heroes hunting heroes crap, Venom bombs, Sentry. Bendis's Avengers run was by and large garbage. I'd recommend Kurt Busiek, Roger Stern, Steve Englehardt, and Roy Thomas's runs to you as definitive "great" Avengers runs.

Brian Reed's run was a supporting book. All it was used to do was provide an extra set of eyes on whatever major story arc was going on...it spun out of House of M, spun into Civil War, leapt right into Secret Invasion, and ended during Dark Reign. It was pure filler, just like the titular character.

Actually, it had an arc or two after Dark Reign as well as a number of arcs in between events. Just because you chose not to read those arcs doesn't mean that they didn't exist. And if I remember correctly, most series at the time were tied into Civil War. I mean, Fantastic Four, Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc. As far as Secret Invasion Goes, it tied into Black Panther, Deadpool, Iron Man, X-Facor, Fantastic Four and Thunderbolts. This is exactly like saying that Matt Fraction's Iron Man was just a tie in book to Dark Reign and Fear Itself or that Thor: God of Thunder is merely a spin-off of Avengers vs. X-Men. Nobody accuses Matt Fraction's run on Iron Man of being a cheap tie-in book or that Thor: God of Thunder is a spin-off. The fact is, she was a new risky character who needed tie-ins to attract new readers since she sat out the 80s and 90s, if she wasn't integrated into the larger Marvel Universe then nobody would have bothered.

A 50 issue series isn't "filler" by any stretch of the imagination nor is a character who's been an Avenger for the past 16 years and supported two solo series during that time without a film series as well as being a core member in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Now if you were to accuse a character like Jack of Hearts or Tigra of being filler, I'd agree but Carol is a solid B-Lister in the same tier as Black Panther and She-Hulk as well as the most popular female Avenger by a long shot. Just because you dislike the character doesn't mean that she doesn't have potential, nor that there are no storylines worth using in a film series.

Also, Brian Michael Bendis is the reason why the Avengers are such a popular series today. They were overshadowed by the X-Men under Busiek and Johns to the point where they risked becoming a relic. Chuck Austen's terrible take on the title caused it to need a retool which is why Bendis' work was needed. It was a stagnant franchise.

Now let's put it this way, male characters seldom get the vitriol on these forums that you're currently spewing even when people are complaining about said character, nor are they anywhere near as passionate about why said character should never appear in a film.

I didn't care about Guardians of the Galaxy until the film was announced in the slightest until the film was announced but I began to appreciate Annihilation and War of Kings and found myself actually beginning to like a series starring a tree and a raccoon. I honestly didn't like Black Panther until there was a ton of buzz about him which got me to check out the Priest and Hudlin runs and I began to like the character.

I've never, ever been as negative about about a property as you're being and you seem to focus on my preference for Captain Marvel over Inhumans over everything else I post, often completely ignoring every single other point that I make just to work yourself into a really toxic angry mood.




Anyway....


Hulk 2 should introduce the Merged Hulk, have Leader as the main villain and tonally should be lighthearted and nowhere near as angsty as previous Hulk films, especially the 2003 one.

Doctor Strange should be Marvel's first attempt at a horror film.

Black Panther should be a martial arts action thriller.

Captain America 3 should involve the 5th Infinity Stone, be a globe-trotting adventure film and feature Zemo as the main villain.

Captain Marvel should be an alien abduction film that's an ending for Mar-Vell and a beginning for Carol that includes the final Infinity Stone.

Thor 3 should stay a fantasy film with Loki and Enchantress as the antagonists, possibly also including Hela in a sub-plot with Odin's soul in Hel.

Guardians 2 is where Thanos gains the Infinity Gauntlet and from Asgard along with the Cosmic Cube, the Aether from The Collector, the one artifact that the Guardians found in the first film, Loki's scepter is returned to him, the artifact that the Kree will have in Captain Marvel and the end he gains the Bloodstone from Cap 3 that's in SHIELD custody on Earth. The Guardians stop Thanos from destroying Hala so it's not a tragedy but Thanos does escape to threaten Earth. Phylla-Vell joins the team here.

Avengers 3 is where Thanos has the entire Infinity Gauntlet and EVERYONE is involved. The Guardians tracked him to Earth while SHIELD, The Avengers and The Defenders all stand united to oppose him.

That's just how I'd do it. Inhumans are cool but they can wait until Phase 4, Black Widow, Moon Knight and Punisher would work better on TV, Blade and Ghost Rider should come in the Phase after Doctor Strange is introduced, Iron Man is confirmed to be taking a break for Phase 3 and I don't see a point in doing thunderbolts until after Phase 3 when there are enough villains to carry the film, plus Marvel said that Loki won't get his own film until after Thor 3 which is why I can't see Thunderbolts happening just yet.

 

[Loki882]

Ouch. Jeez. Ouch.

To echo though, the reason Carol is the way she is is because almost no one has ever done something cool and original with a solo heroine in comic books. They're all spinoffs or supporting cast, and have been for the entire history of the thing. Even Wonder Woman was conceived as a feminine Superman. Every so often people forge great stories from there, but the foundation is always shaky, especially in comparison to the long running male heroes who aren't ever spinoffs or supporting cast.

So while Marvel Studios may indeed want a female solo film, what they really want is a good one, and that requires more than just some of us liking the character. They need someone to come and make Carol better than she's ever been, to write the defining classic Carol story by piecing together things that are not widely beloved or classic. In the Ms. Marvel thread we couldn't even agree on the Uniform.

Here's the thing, this is the FILM universe, not the comics. They're under no obligation to rip stories from the comics, and they frequently don't. They can make up their own story and just use the basic character traits from the comics. There comes a point when you keep saying "we REALLY want to do a female movie, we're totally looking in to it, so don't worry" over and over again for years without any progress being made on actually DOING anything, when people star to see that you're just talking out of your ass and paying lip service to the idea. However, you have no interest in actually doing anything. Don't give me this "we're waiting for the right story" crap.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

incorporate spiderman somehow, if he's not incorporated in phase 2 (which so far he hasn't, im3, thor 2)

 

[Dasher10]

incorporate spiderman somehow, if he's not incorporated in phase 2 (which so far he hasn't, im3, thor 2)

Spider-Man will never get a solo film in the MCU since the film rights are over at Sony and they're making a movie coming out in a few months.

 

[KangConquers]

And all of that is completely and utterly irrelevant since this is the FILM universe aimed at the GA, most of whom have never read a comic book. Just because something happened one way in the comics DOES NOT mean that they'll necessarily happened that way in the films. Some people REALLY don't seem to get this concept.

I "get the concept." I just don't think there's anything in Ms. Marvel's mythos remotely worth adapting.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Spider-Man will never get a solo film in the MCU since the film rights are over at Sony and they're making a movie coming out in a few months.

I know sony's got spidey, but I want them to work something out. as a start though, easter eggs are good enough. oscorp in avengers, for example

 

[Dasher10]

I "get the concept." I just don't think there's anything in Ms. Marvel's mythos remotely worth adapting.

Hey, did you read the entirety of the Chris Claremont, Brian Reed and Kelly Sue DeConnick solo runs along with all of Kurt Busiek and Geoff Johns' work on Avengers in addition to the current Hickman and DeConnick Avengers series?

I know that you've mentioned not liking Bendis but there is so much other content out there. Right now you're implying that ALL of the above is crap.

For instance, I feel that Down, Operation Lightning Storm, Ascension and War of the Marvels are all worth adapting. Just because you didn't read certain storylines doesn't mean that they're worthless. Enemy Within in particular would make for a good Avengers film.