MCU Phase 3: Have it your way

[KangConquers]

Actually, it had an arc or two after Dark Reign as well as a number of arcs in between events. Just because you chose not to read those arcs doesn't mean that they didn't exist. And if I remember correctly, most series at the time were tied into Civil War. I mean, Fantastic Four, Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc. As far as Secret Invasion Goes, it tied into Black Panther, Deadpool, Iron Man, X-Facor, Fantastic Four and Thunderbolts. This is exactly like saying that Matt Fraction's Iron Man was just a tie in book to Dark Reign and Fear Itself or that Thor: God of Thunder is merely a spin-off of Avengers vs. X-Men. Nobody accuses Matt Fraction's run on Iron Man of being a cheap tie-in book or that Thor: God of Thunder is a spin-off. The fact is, she was a new risky character who needed tie-ins to attract new readers since she sat out the 80s and 90s, if she wasn't integrated into the larger Marvel Universe then nobody would have bothered.

A 50 issue series isn't "filler" by any stretch of the imagination nor is a character who's been an Avenger for the past 16 years and supported two solo series during that time without a film series as well as being a core member in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Now if you were to accuse a character like Jack of Hearts or Tigra of being filler, I'd agree but Carol is a solid B-Lister in the same tier as Black Panther and She-Hulk as well as the most popular female Avenger by a long shot. Just because you dislike the character doesn't mean that she doesn't have potential, nor that there are no storylines worth using in a film series.

Also, Brian Michael Bendis is the reason why the Avengers are such a popular series today. They were overshadowed by the X-Men under Busiek and Johns to the point where they risked becoming a relic. Chuck Austen's terrible take on the title caused it to need a retool which is why Bendis' work was needed. It was a stagnant franchise.

Now let's put it this way, male characters seldom get the vitriol on these forums that you're currently spewing even when people are complaining about said character, nor are they anywhere near as passionate about why said character should never appear in a film.

I didn't care about Guardians of the Galaxy until the film was announced in the slightest until the film was announced but I began to appreciate Annihilation and War of Kings and found myself actually beginning to like a series starring a tree and a raccoon. I honestly didn't like Black Panther until there was a ton of buzz about him which got me to check out the Priest and Hudlin runs and I began to like the character.

I've never, ever been as negative about about a property as you're being and you seem to focus on my preference for Captain Marvel over Inhumans over everything else I post, often completely ignoring every single other point that I make just to work yourself into a really toxic angry mood.

Nice try smart guy. I read roughly of the Ms. Marvel issues from the Reed run. Admittedly not all, but I was also reading the completely (or almost completely) self-contained arcs that were going on in the pages of Captain America and Thor.

You make a good point that there was a lot of tying in during this period, but that's all Ms. Marvel's comic was; A series of tie-ins and random incidental filler issues. Are you that excited to see baby MODOKs hit the big screen? The character does have potential, but it hasn't been met yet...

Ms. Marvel's status is a bi-product of Bendis favoritism, just like Luke Cage and Spider-Woman's. Some of us thoroughly enjoyed the Avenger comics that came before Bendis's eight years of hackwork. You obviously aren't one of them, so pardon me if I'm not as sold as you are on her status.

And even if Ms. Marvel does have that high of status, Storm and Cyclops are strong B-list characters. No one is calling for solo films for those characters. Some characters serve a team better.

My irritation (I wasn't "fuming", just annoyed) comes from the sweeping generalizations you're making to justify this character. Comparing her to Iron Man prior to his first movie? Grossly inaccurate. Claiming villains "now belong to her?" again inaccurate.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It was quite a while ago we heard about the Phase 2 lineup and how it can be assumed the standard will be 5 lead-in/solo films for every Avengers film. Phase 3 is roughly 4 years away which means its about time we started speculating.

Which solo films do you see setting up Avengers 3 in Phase 3? If youre feeling particularly rambunctious, you can even share your thoughts on subtitles. Five seems to be the magic number but try to keep it between 4 and 6. As it is unlikely we will see more or less than that.

Personally I'd like to see the following:

(Avengers 2: Ultron Imperative, May 2015)
Ant-Man (November 2015)

Captain America 3: Man Out of Time (May 2016)
Doctor Strange (November 2016)
Thor 3: Flames of Surtur (April/May 2017)
Black Panther (August 2017)

Avengers 3 part 1: Thanos Quest (May 2018)
Ms. Marvel/Captain Marvel (November 2018)

Guardians of the Galaxy: War of Kings (May 2019)
Avengers 3 part 2: Infinity Gauntlet (November 2019)

2020 and beyond:
Planet Hulk/World War Hulk
sequels to GotG, Black Panther, Doctor Strange
Namor the Submariner, Silver Surfer, The Inhumans, The Defenders
IM, Cap, Thor reboots?

eh, I dunno about splitting an avengers flick into two. thats kind of a gamble.

 

[Dasher10]

Nice try smart guy. I read roughly of the Ms. Marvel issues from the Reed run. Admittedly not all, but I was also reading the completely (or almost completely) self-contained arcs that were going on in the pages of Captain America and Thor.

You make a good point that there was a lot of tying in during this period, but that's all Ms. Marvel's comic was; A series of tie-ins and random incidental filler issues. Are you that excited to see baby MODOKs hit the big screen? The character does have potential, but it hasn't been met yet...

Ms. Marvel's status is a bi-product of Bendis favoritism, just like Luke Cage and Spider-Woman's. Some of us thoroughly enjoyed the Avenger comics that came before Bendis's eight years of hackwork. You obviously aren't one of them, so pardon me if I'm not as sold as you are on her status.

And even if Ms. Marvel does have that high of status, Storm and Cyclops are strong B-list characters. No one is calling for solo films for those characters. Some characters serve a team better.

My irritation (I wasn't "fuming", just annoyed) comes from the sweeping generalizations you're making to justify this character. Comparing her to Iron Man prior to his first movie? Grossly inaccurate. Claiming villains "now belong to her?" again inaccurate.

Luke Cage is getting his own TV show. Clearly Cage has potential or there wouldn't be a show. It's not just Bendis randomly adding new characters who nobody cares about.

You also ignored that Carol was a core Avenger with Busiek and Johns. That wasn't Bendis' doing.

Also, with the X-Men, Wolverine, Cable, Rogue and occasionally Gambit are the only characters able to sustain a solo series because the X-Men were DESIGNED as a team. The supporting casts for the rest of the X-Men are other X-Men.

That and the tie-in issues during Reed's run were three trades (Civil War, Secret Invasion and Dark Reign). 2/3rds of a run aren't just "filler issues" at that point they're arcs and for that matter, Carol being a supporting character without a solo series WOULD make her a filler character. Hence why I'm not pulling for Vision or Jack of Hearts to appear in the MCU as they'd have no solo story potential at all and would be ignored like Hulk and Hawkeye were for most of Phase 2.

I'll even admit that I've warmed up to a Hawkeye film as the Fraction series is surprisingly pretty solid. He's still probably a low priority given that War Machine and Black Widow have been established solo characters for much longer but I won't complain if Hawkeye got a film.

Now if Carol and Luke weren't part of the team, the Avengers would have just been a bunch of white guys. Why should Marvel just sit on female and nonwhite characters when they could build them up and make them cool?

But I'll give you Spider-Woman. She's never appeared to me as her male counterpart is far more interesting.

 

[Dasher10]

Also, the new volume of Captain Marvel is due to high critical acclaim but low sales. Same reason as Daredevil which got a number of awards but Marvel would rather retitle the book instead of allow sales to slip as they aren't where they could be.

 

[KangConquers]

Luke Cage is getting his own TV show. Clearly Cage has potential or there wouldn't be a show. It's not just Bendis randomly adding new characters who nobody cares about.

You also ignored that Carol was a core Avenger with Busiek and Johns. That wasn't Bendis' doing.

Also, with the X-Men, Wolverine, Cable, Rogue and occasionally Gambit are the only characters able to sustain a solo series because the X-Men were DESIGNED as a team. The supporting casts for the rest of the X-Men are other X-Men.

That and the tie-in issues during Reed's run were three trades (Civil War, Secret Invasion and Dark Reign). 2/3rds of a run aren't just "filler issues" at that point they're arcs and for that matter, Carol being a supporting character without a solo series WOULD make her a filler character. Hence why I'm not pulling for Vision or Jack of Hearts to appear in the MCU as they'd have no solo story potential at all and would be ignored like Hulk and Hawkeye were for most of Phase 2.

I'll even admit that I've warmed up to a Hawkeye film as the Fraction series is surprisingly pretty solid. He's still probably a low priority given that War Machine and Black Widow have been established solo characters for much longer but I won't complain if Hawkeye got a film.

Now if Carol and Luke weren't part of the team, the Avengers would have just been a bunch of white guys. Why should Marvel just sit on female and nonwhite characters when they could build them up and make them cool?

But I'll give you Spider-Woman. She's never appeared to me as her male counterpart is far more interesting.

Luke Cage is fine, but I hate him, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Doctor Strange, and Jessica Jones as Avengers. They're not Avengers, and I hated that for a while, that was the only Avengers book you could buy. As for just a bunch of white guys, The Black Panther became an Avenger in issue #51, and between Wasp and Scarlet Witch, there was always at least one woman, usually two.

Carol was a core member, but I don't know that she was any more central than any of the other women from the Geoff Johns/ Busiek runs. She was one of 4 or 5. Her sole huge moment in that run was killing the Master of the World during the Kang Dynasty. To me, Wasp is the original female Avenger, and Scarlet Witch is the most important.

Vision is also a character I consider more important, and more interesting than Carol Danvers. If you look at Avengers history, so many major arcs have him as a top 3 protagonist...The Kree-Skrull War, The Celestial Madonna Saga, Ultron Unlimited. Vision and the Scarlet Witch's romance is one of the defining elements of the first 40 years of Avengers comics, and Vision, as an artificial intelligence capable of emotion, represents a much more compelling character than Carol Danvers.

You've yet to name one real amazing Carol Danvers arc that you think demands adaptation. She lacks a Winter Soldier, or Extremis level classic arc. I'd be fine with a Piecemeal arc, or an original one in a movie, in due time...but why should that trump the adaptation of complete characters like Black Panther, or classic arcs like the Scarlet Witch and Vision romance? What makes those characters unworthy of being rushed to the screen in your eyes?

 

[DrCosmic]

Eh, no, be fair. Wonder Woman was conceived as something a lot more complicated than "feminine Superman."

Its just that said thing was inextricably tied into Martson's philosophical ideas of "better living through BDSM", so its almost entirely unsalable to the modern audience.

Ha, true, true. For Marston the idea of 'feminine' loomed much much larger than the idea of 'superman.' In his mind it was probably more of a superman woman, lol. Definitely a lot more complicated than "supergirl," and that showed.

My point was simply no one's really sat down and just made a female superhero outside of the context of a male hero. This brings with it certain challenges.

Here's the thing, this is the FILM universe, not the comics. They're under no obligation to rip stories from the comics, and they frequently don't. They can make up their own story and just use the basic character traits from the comics. There comes a point when you keep saying "we REALLY want to do a female movie, we're totally looking in to it, so don't worry" over and over again for years without any progress being made on actually DOING anything, when people star to see that you're just talking out of your ass and paying lip service to the idea. However, you have no interest in actually doing anything. Don't give me this "we're waiting for the right story" crap.

Wait... so what if the story they make up isn't the right story? Why should they think they're thrown together story will be as popular and beloved as The Winter Soldier and Extremis were in the comics? We on this forum can't come up with a single unique (to the MCU) angle on Carol Danvers' story... what makes you so sure someone else has come up with an awesome one by now?

And Kang has a great point too... even if they could put together an incredible classic story for Ms. Marvel... something that imho hasn't really been done in her history despite many great writers having done their best... they should adapt that over proven stories like Panther's Rage? Hot trending stuff like Inhumanity? I'm not so sure.

My Solution:

I don't just talk about problems now. So how would I fix the female issue? You can't do Carol, she's too vanilla superheroine, you can't do Tigra (Joss' fave) she's got no cast and her story of this hidden Cat pepole is too much like the Inhumans. You can't do most personal faves like mine, Monica Rambeau, for the same reason. They never had a book, they've always been supporting cast, they don't have many real stories either, and no classic ones. You can't do Scarlet Witch cuz she's bonkers again. You can't do Wasp because she's Ant-Man supporting cast, if that. So who's left?

I'd do the Inhumans as a Crystal movie, with her squarely as the central protagonist, being the bridge between the emerging Inhumanity and the big bad royal court, and the Game of Thrones like contest between Maximus the Mad and Blackagar Boltagon, involving Medusa, Triton, Gorgon, Karnak and the loveable Lockjaw. Crystal would be full Disney Princess material, with elemental Avatar (bending, not blue guys)-inspired carnage instead of song and dance numbers. She'd be young, vaguely in love, and trying to find herself in the world. Copy-Paste Katniss. Copy-paste Bella. Copy-paste Hermoine. Now you have the supernatural action-romance category in the MCU. Have fun with it, or flip it into action horror. Options.

But just know in my own personal universe, Monica Rambeau is partnered with a in a superhero sci fi/horror film involving the Darkforce Dimension, Blackout and her gaining some uber powers called SPECTRUM. Just FYI.

 

[KangConquers]

The biggest issue I have with this insistence on Ms. Marvel as a 2016-2017 character is THE ONLY thing that makes her unique is being a woman. Her setting isn't unique, her powers aren't unique, her personal history isn't unique (gender swapped Hal Jordan), and now the Kree connection that was so important to her character is being explored in another film.

Compare that to Doctor Strange who's almost a superhero sub-genre, with the hard mysticism, astral bodies, abstract entities etc. Or Black Panther, one of Marvel's few characters who provides the opportunity to shoot in exotic locals, and provides a great platform for commentary on western imperialism. What does Carol provide that's new and exciting?

 

[Dasher10]

The biggest issue I have with this insistence on Ms. Marvel as a 2016-2017 character is THE ONLY thing that makes her unique is being a woman. Her setting isn't unique, her powers aren't unique, her personal history isn't unique (gender swapped Hal Jordan), and now the Kree connection that was so important to her character is being explored in another film.

Compare that to Doctor Strange who's almost a superhero sub-genre, with the hard mysticism, astral bodies, abstract entities etc. Or Black Panther, one of Marvel's few characters who provides the opportunity to shoot in exotic locals, and provides a great platform for commentary on western imperialism. What does Carol provide that's new and exciting?

She's the bridge between street level and cosmic properties. Inhumans on the other hand are never a property I've cared about. I mean, the protagonist can't say a singe word outside of fight scenes and Medusa and Crystal are okay but up until the newest event comic, they've never been truly integral to the Marvel U. They're just kind of there.

Black Panther and Doctor Strange are all but confirmed for Phase 3 already, what's the point in arguing over them? The only debate is between Captain Marvel, Black Widow and Inhumans as those are the only properties left for Marvel to mine outside of Blade and Ghost Rider which will probably only come in Phase 4. Moon Knight, Runaways, Hawkeye and Punisher will probably be TV series. Spin-offs around Winter Soldier, She-Hulk and War Machine are probably a long, long way off.

I mean, what's left are characters like Tigra, Howard the Duck, and others who are probably far too lame

Also, Spider-Woman was a member of the Avengers long before Bendis starting back in the 80s, then with Force Works.

For the record, what DOES make a character an Avenger to you and why are none of the characters you mentioned Avengers? Keep in mind that this was an entire decade ago and now they're very much key players. It sounds like you're really in love with the 70s and 80s and want the MCU to only reflect those times instead of the 90s, 2000s and 2010s despite any and all character development since then.

Keep in mind that the only Avengers who I really don't want to see on the big screen are Jack of Hearts, Wonder Man, Hellcat, Tigra and Lionheart. Everyone else is fair game.

 

[Blind_Lawyer]

Carol "phased" (see what I did there?) into the MCU via an Avengers movie or something, yes. Having her own movie? No. I agree with KangConquers: She's really not an interesting enough character to carry her own film.

That being said, depending on how she's handled in a supporting role in another film, she could become a "cult favorite" with movie audiences and then, the sky's the limit. But as it stands right now, I wouldn't be doing cartwheels over the idea of a Ms. Marvel movie.

 

[Dr. Evil]

She's the bridge between street level and cosmic properties. Inhumans on the other hand are never a property I've cared about. I mean, the protagonist can't say a singe word outside of fight scenes and Medusa and Crystal are okay but up until the newest event comic, they've never been truly integral to the Marvel U. They're just kind of there.

Black Panther and Doctor Strange are all but confirmed for Phase 3 already, what's the point in arguing over them? The only debate is between Captain Marvel, Black Widow and Inhumans as those are the only properties left for Marvel to mine outside of Blade and Ghost Rider which will probably only come in Phase 4. Moon Knight, Runaways, Hawkeye and Punisher will probably be TV series. Spin-offs around Winter Soldier, She-Hulk and War Machine are probably a long, long way off.

I mean, what's left are characters like Tigra, Howard the Duck, and others who are probably far too lame

Also, Spider-Woman was a member of the Avengers long before Bendis starting back in the 80s, then with Force Works.

For the record, what DOES make a character an Avenger to you and why are none of the characters you mentioned Avengers? Keep in mind that this was an entire decade ago and now they're very much key players. It sounds like you're really in love with the 70s and 80s and want the MCU to only reflect those times instead of the 90s, 2000s and 2010s despite any and all character development since then.

Keep in mind that the only Avengers who I really don't want to see on the big screen are Jack of Hearts, Wonder Man, Hellcat, Tigra and Lionheart. Everyone else is fair game.

She Hulk could end up being introduced on the Netflix series, although before she gets her powers.

Howard the Duck could be animated if they want to go that route.

 

[Blind_Lawyer]

She Hulk could end up being introduced on the Netflix series, although before she gets her powers.

Jen Walters in the courtroom opposite Matt Murdock? I could see that.

 

[KangConquers]

She's the bridge between street level and cosmic properties. Inhumans on the other hand are never a property I've cared about. I mean, the protagonist can't say a singe word outside of fight scenes and Medusa and Crystal are okay but up until the newest event comic, they've never been truly integral to the Marvel U. They're just kind of there.

Black Panther and Doctor Strange are all but confirmed for Phase 3 already, what's the point in arguing over them? The only debate is between Captain Marvel, Black Widow and Inhumans as those are the only properties left for Marvel to mine outside of Blade and Ghost Rider which will probably only come in Phase 4. Moon Knight, Runaways, Hawkeye and Punisher will probably be TV series. Spin-offs around Winter Soldier, She-Hulk and War Machine are probably a long, long way off.

I mean, what's left are characters like Tigra, Howard the Duck, and others who are probably far too lame

Also, Spider-Woman was a member of the Avengers long before Bendis starting back in the 80s, then with Force Works.

For the record, what DOES make a character an Avenger to you and why are none of the characters you mentioned Avengers? Keep in mind that this was an entire decade ago and now they're very much key players. It sounds like you're really in love with the 70s and 80s and want the MCU to only reflect those times instead of the 90s, 2000s and 2010s despite any and all character development since then.

Keep in mind that the only Avengers who I really don't want to see on the big screen are Jack of Hearts, Wonder Man, Hellcat, Tigra and Lionheart. Everyone else is fair game.

The Inhumans had an entire cosmic cross-over devoted to them in 2009, War of Kings. That's more than I can say for Ms. Marvel in terms of being "integral" to the universe. Being present in many big stories doesn't make you integral.

Different Spider-Woman. That was Julia Carpenter, not Jessica Jones. I'm more a fan of Julia, but neither is blowing my socks off. If you remember, Julia was arrested by Carol during the Reed run, and had her daughter used against her. Jessica Jones is the one who was replaced by a Skrull.

I like the Avengers from 1964 until Dissembled. My favorite runs are by Roy Thomas, Steve Englehart, Jim Shooter, and Geoff Johns. Bendis killed the spirit of what the Avengers were, got rid of all of the stalwarts, stopped using Avengers villains (it took him 6 years to use Kang, and he only used Ultron once.) I've read a bit of the current run by Jonathan Hickman, and I rather enjoy it, but I haven't had a lot of time recently.


I was going to list my favorite Avengers, but this picture sums up who I view as the core members:

Note that by the end of 2015, we will have seen all of these characters on the big screen except for Vision and Black Panther. If those two characters make it into Avengers 3? I can die happy.

 

[DrCosmic]

I'm holding out hope they make it into Avengers 2 personally.

I forgot Spider-Woman... I think an "Arachne" movie would also work as a solid sci-fi horror piece, she's just too close to what a Black Widow movie should be, it'd be weird to take their established heroine's story threads and give it to a new girl.

I don't share the same disdain for the Bendisvengers. Some of the older guys don't get the feeling they got from the original Avengers, when it was a bit of a family, y'know, superheroes just hanging around the house kicking it, kinda like they did in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. As someone who's not a product of that era, it seems EXTREMELY weird to me, and more than a little hokey imho, but hey, different times for different people. Nowadays, it's all battlefield banter and pairing off for recon. These people aren't part of eachother's personal lives... they're just trying to save the world without getting in each other's way. A lot of people enjoy that, that is kinda the point after all, but its definitely not the same as when the kind of group that is comfortable enough in eachother's home to make the butler an honorary Avenger.

 

[Dasher10]

I fail to see why exactly she's boring. I mean, when it comes to super strength, flight and energy projection as powers, that just makes her Marvel's version of Superman. That's like saying that Hawkeye is Marvel's version of Green Arrow, therefore, there is nothing interesting about Hawkeye. There are no bad characters, only bad writers.

That said, I would approve of her being introduced via Age of Ultron as just "Carol Danvers" as a short cameo for less than a minute.

 

[Dasher10]

The Inhumans had an entire cosmic cross-over devoted to them in 2009, War of Kings. That's more than I can say for Ms. Marvel in terms of being "integral" to the universe. Being present in many big stories doesn't make you integral.

Different Spider-Woman. That was Julia Carpenter, not Jessica Jones. I'm more a fan of Julia, but neither is blowing my socks off. If you remember, Julia was arrested by Carol during the Reed run, and had her daughter used against her. Jessica Jones is the one who was replaced by a Skrull.

I like the Avengers from 1964 until Dissembled. My favorite runs are by Roy Thomas, Steve Englehart, Jim Shooter, and Geoff Johns. Bendis killed the spirit of what the Avengers were, got rid of all of the stalwarts, stopped using Avengers villains (it took him 6 years to use Kang, and he only used Ultron once.) I've read a bit of the current run by Jonathan Hickman, and I rather enjoy it, but I haven't had a lot of time recently.


I was going to list my favorite Avengers, but this picture sums up who I view as the core members:

Note that by the end of 2015, we will have seen all of these characters on the big screen except for Vision and Black Panther. If those two characters make it into Avengers 3? I can die happy.

War of Kings was mostly the Shi'Ar and Guardians of the Galaxy. The Inhumans and Starjammers were involved as well but it was mostly a showcase for the Guardians.

And to be perfectly frank with you, Bendis DID use most of those characters with the exception of Scarlet Witch at some point or another after Disassembled, especially after the Avengers broke up into multiple teams post-Civil War.

Now if you're a fan of the classic lineup, why exactly would you have Chuck Austen close the classic lineup? Austen ruined most of these characters. I mean, Mark Millar may have messed up Iron Man but Austen desecrated Hawkeye, Wasp, Hank Pym and Captain America. I'd have called it a day with the end of Johns' run.

I mean, we can agree to disagree on which characters and creators are worthwhile and which aren't. I'm not a fan of Inhumans but I like Captain Marvel. I can accept your opinion as long as you don't have a bunch of negative things to say every single time I mention Carol.

Also, I'm not opposed to She-Hulk appearing in Daredevil as long as it's only in one or two episodes. She's Hulk's cousin/sidekick, she needs to gain her powers in a second Hulk film.

And yes, Howard the Duck could work as an animated film but after the previous live action movie, I'd rather see Power Pack as a cartoon first as that hasn't become as cringeworthy for me yet to the point where remembering the character at all gives me a knee jerk reaction.

A big part of the reason why Carol deserves her own movie is because if anyone gets introduced to the Avengers as a mere supporting character, I'd rather it be Vision since his interactions with Iron Man and Scarlet Witch would be very interesting to see provided that a good enough actor is playing Vision. I'd just rather see Avengers who can handle their own series with the team as a big team up property when the world is truly in danger to handle massive threats. What makes somebody an Avenger isn't being buddies with the other members of the group, it's being one of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Most of these characters need to be able to stand alone with the exceptions of Vision and Scarlet Witch (Quicksilver is always more of an X-Man in my eyes).

 

[Steamteck]

Everyone has their takes on the characters and whether they are interesting or not. Personably I would got to a Ms Marvel movie in a hot minute. Might go to a Black Panther depending on which incarnation they leaned towards and have zero interest in the Inhumans.

Looking forward to Dr. Strange quite a lot also

 

[Dasher10]

Oh, and keep in mind that I can see Scarlet Witch appearing in the Doctor Strange film and Vision could potentially have his own series.

Vision is another character who I see in the same position as Ms. Marvel who's criminally underrated and really needs more love.

 

[KDM1986]

Oh, and keep in mind that I can see Scarlet Witch appearing in the Doctor Strange film and Vision could potentially have his own series.

Vision is another character who I see in the same position as Ms. Marvel who's criminally underrated and really needs more love.

While I agree we definitely need to see the Vision at some point. I don't know if he could support his own franchise. He seems better suited to be a side character for the Avengers, Ant-man, Dr Strange.

 

[Dasher10]

While I agree we definitely need to see the Vision at some point. I don't know if he could support his own franchise. He seems better suited to be a side character for the Avengers, Ant-man, Dr Strange.

I mean in the comics. Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye were given shots by Marvel and the results were nothing but positive. Why not Vision?

 

[DrCosmic]

^Ms. Marvel's results were many things other than positive. Low-selling amongst them, low-quality with the exception of the current DeConnick stuff. Irrelevant is also not positive.

Vision is too connected to the other Avengers to independent. The other heroes are his supporting cast.

I fail to see why exactly she's boring. I mean, when it comes to super strength, flight and energy projection as powers, that just makes her Marvel's version of Superman. That's like saying that Hawkeye is Marvel's version of Green Arrow, therefore, there is nothing interesting about Hawkeye. There are no bad characters, only bad writers.

That said, I would approve of her being introduced via Age of Ultron as just "Carol Danvers" as a short cameo for less than a minute.

She's not necessarily boring, but she is redundant. She's not just a female version of some other company's character, she's a female version of the people she's around. It's like adding Hawkingbird to the Avengers with Hawkeye right there. Sure, a great writer can make a second archer incredibly interesting on a good day, but why not get a character who's unique to add to the team, and who can guarantee that it will be a good day and that the writer's intention to make the second archer unique will carry through to the audience.

Ms. Marvel is in a similar position, she's a second flying super strong hand blaster that absorbs energy with enhanced senses. She may very well not be boring, but it won't be because of her powers or because of she's a military superhero... so what will make her interesting if everything we usually say about her is a male-hero-does-it-better thing?

 

[KangConquers]

^Ms. Marvel's results were many things other than positive. Low-selling amongst them, low-quality with the exception of the current DeConnick stuff. Irrelevant is also not positive.

Vision is too connected to the other Avengers to independent. The other heroes are his supporting cast.



She's not necessarily boring, but she is redundant. She's not just a female version of some other company's character, she's a female version of the people she's around. It's like adding Hawkingbird to the Avengers with Hawkeye right there. Sure, a great writer can make a second archer incredibly interesting on a good day, but why not get a character who's unique to add to the team, and who can guarantee that it will be a good day and that the writer's intention to make the second archer unique will carry through to the audience.

Ms. Marvel is in a similar position, she's a second flying super strong hand blaster that absorbs energy with enhanced senses. She may very well not be boring, but it won't be because of her powers or because of she's a military superhero... so what will make her interesting if everything we usually say about her is a male-hero-does-it-better thing?

The last problem I have is Phase 3 is ridiculously stacked. Captain America, Thor and Avengers sequels are a definite. I also want Guardians of the Galaxy and Hulk sequels. That leaves maybe room for 1-2 new films, if that?

Carol can have a movie some day, but I don't want it to happen at the expense of a sequel to a major character who's already in the universe.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Phase 3 needs Black Panther, even though it may not be easy for Marvel to sell a film with a largely Black cast to the masses (which is why I think we'll see Jessica Jones and Iron Fist appear in Luke Cage, although that won't be much of a surprise).

Instead of Everett Ross, though, how about an already established MCU character? Perhaps one played by Jeremy Renner.

 

[KangConquers]

Phase 3 needs Black Panther, even though it may not be easy for Marvel to sell a film with a largely Black cast to the masses (which is why I think we'll see Jessica Jones and Iron Fist appear in Luke Cage, although that won't be much of a surprise).

Instead of Everett Ross, though, how about an already established MCU character? Perhaps one played by Jeremy Renner.

I want Panther in Phase 3 as well. He's part of my "dream dozen" line up for Avengers 3.

 

[KangConquers]

eh, I dunno about splitting an avengers flick into two. thats kind of a gamble.

How. It's worked for Harry Potter, Twilight, The Hobbit...splitting movies when you have a large story to tell isn't a bad way of handling it, and The Infinity Gauntlet is most certainly a large story.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Didn't whedon say he didnt like splitting stories?