Far From Home MCU Spider-Man is very, very inaccurate

[ironwez20]

Well thats why he is comedy relief.

And that’s why he fails

 

[CaptainWagner]

It's more about verbal than physical bullying, as todays kids usually are. Nobody gets stuffed in lockers or trash cans in 2019.

^^^ As a relatively recent high school grad, THIS ^^^

But they are still fights. If someone smaller than you said crap about you then it’d likely be behind a computer and not in person since they would fear getting beat up.

Cool kids don't fight. Legit fights in high school these days are relegated to the angsty outsiders. And I can confirm that the majority of bullies at my school looked a lot more like Tony Rvolori than Joe Manganielo. Flash is shown to be clearly more athletically inclined than Peter, but given the school they're at, it wouldn't make sense for him to be a sports star. Even if he wasn't shown to be athletic, he's rich and he's popular. In high school in 2019, those are ultimately the only things that matter. Physical strength is only a second thought for a bully these days.

 

[ironwez20]

^^^ As a relatively recent high school grad, THIS ^^^

Cool kids don't fight. Legit fights in high school these days are relegated to the angsty outsiders. And I can confirm that the majority of bullies at my school looked a lot more like Tony Rvolori than Joe Manganielo. Flash is shown to be clearly more athletically inclined than Peter, but given the school they're at, it wouldn't make sense for him to be a sports star. Even if he wasn't shown to be athletic, he's rich and he's popular. In high school in 2019, those are ultimately the only things that matter. Physical strength is only a second thought for a bully these days.

No true. Jocks are still the bullies in school. They are the ones that get the girls and bully the younger more smaller people. This flash is more of an internet bully who is quiet in real life.

 

[CaptainWagner]

No true. Jocks are still the bullies in school. They are the ones that get the girls and bully the younger more smaller people. This flash is more of an internet bully who is quiet in real life.

Based on what? Because, first off, how are you defining "jock"? This is an elite academic academy, so the cliched "dumb football star" stereotype doesn't work here. And even if it did, that character just isn't very relevant any more. You seem to have a very narrow idea of both bullies and popular kids in high school. I can't speak to what things were like when you were in school, but the MCU's depiction is far truer to my experience than what you seem to be proposing.

 

[Dark Raven]

I've said this in another thread, but it bears repeating here where it's probably more relevant.

If no-one likes this Flash, then he's just an annoying troll. Why should Peter even care what he thinks or what he says online if Flash doesn't have the backing of others to influence them? Why would others even believe what he says?

Even if Flash weren't a physical bully and jock, he was still the most popular kid in the class or school and girls wanted to be with him. He also had social influence and his words carried weight with others.

Revelori's Flash seems like the least popular kid in the school. How can this Flash even realistically bully Peter even psychologically if no-one is supporting him? There's an old proverb which says "He who thinks he is leading when no-one is following is only taking a walk". That's exactly what it's like with Revelori's Flash. Who is actually following him when no-one seems to like him? He's walking alone. At least comic Flash had followers.

Even Peter seems more popular than him. In fact, compared to any of the other kids at this school and how nerdy they look, Peter looks like the coolest and most traditionally Flash like. He should be the one getting all the girls.

When Peter looks like the coolest kid in a school full of nerds, then there's something wrong with that.

In films like "Mean Girls", the girls who were in the in crowd had social influence. They didn't necessarily resort to physical violence. But they were the cool kids. Revelori's Flash doesn't exactly have his own little posse. He's not even a non-physical bully on the level of Mean Girls. He just a pest, not a major influencer of others. He's like the kid no-one liked whom everyone beat up - even the girls.

 

[ironwez20]

Based on what? Because, first off, how are you defining "jock"? This is an elite academic academy, so the cliched "dumb football star" stereotype doesn't work here. And even if it did, that character just isn't very relevant any more. You seem to have a very narrow idea of both bullies and popular kids in high school. I can't speak to what things were like when you were in school, but the MCU's depiction is far truer to my experience than what you seem to be proposing.

Lol chill dude. Let me explain. This flash is a small scrawny kid who talks bs. No kid today would do that atleast not without a group of kids behind him. He is more of a nerd than peter is. Like I said he would seem more of a internet troll who picks on peter online but would t say anything if peter stepped to him. He just doesn’t seem like a bully. He seems like he’d be beat up if he even so much as look at someone wrong. Again bigger stronger jock types are more intimidating then some short kid who talks trash with nothing to back it up. Most people are scared of the bigger kid. Bullies still beat up kids. It’s not so different from before

 

[ironwez20]

I've said this in another thread, but it bears repeating here where it's probably more relevant.

If no-one likes this Flash, then he's just an annoying troll. Why should Peter even care what he thinks or what he says online if Flash doesn't have the backing of others to influence them? Why would others even believe what he says?

Even if Flash weren't a physical bully and jock, he was still the most popular kid in the class or school and girls wanted to be with him. He also had social influence and his words carried weight with others.

Revelori's Flash seems like the least popular kid in the school. How can this Flash even realistically bully Peter even psychologically if no-one is supporting him? There's an old proverb which says "He who thinks he is leading when no-one is following is only taking a walk". That's exactly what it's like with Revelori's Flash. Who is actually following him when no-one seems to like him? He's walking alone. At least comic Flash had followers.

Even Peter seems more popular than him. In fact, compared to any of the other kids at this school and how nerdy they look, Peter looks like the coolest and most traditionally Flash like. He should be the one getting all the girls.

When Peter looks like the coolest kid in a school full of nerds, then there's something wrong with that.

In films like "Mean Girls", the girls who were in the in crowd had social influence. They didn't necessarily resort to physical violence. But they were the cool kids. Revelori's Flash doesn't exactly have his own little posse. He's not even a non-physical bully on the level of Mean Girls. He just a pest, not a major influencer of others. He's like the kid no-one liked whom everyone beat up - even the girls.

This right here

 

[Spider-Aziz]

You want to analyze Ditko's Flash Thompson he was more of a verbal bully than a physical one, the most physical he got is pushing Peter in Amazing Fantasy 15, or maybe trying to take that thing that formulates the true identity of Spider-Man by moving toward him to try and touch that sheet of paper.
Peter punched Flash more than the other way around in the Ditko run.

There are some flashback stories that show Flash being more aggressive toward Peter than Steve Ditko or even Kurt Busiek and Pat Ollife ever made him look.
And he was more aggressive in the Ultimate line of comics, that is one series that really made Flash resort to physical beating.


I warmed up to Spider-Man under the wings of the Russo brothers though, they made some decisions I don't like such as making him casually unmask in front of other meta powered characters, and talking about the science of stuff with older heroes he fights against. His portrayal in Homecoming is not natural progression from Civil War.

I'm going to mention how they decided to link Iron Man 2 to Spider-Man and call that kid who tried to stop the villain a child Peter Parker, it's the Sins Past of MCU Spider-Man in making a decision that does not mesh well with what was shown when the character debuted by making his Civil War debut his second appearance, and he wanted to be a hero year before "You can do the things I can do... and do nothing, then the bad stuff happens" makes the death of Ben in this world more awkward and poorly placed.

 

[Nardz937]

The rubble scene sucked.

In the "If This Be Destiny" story in the comic, Aunt May's life is at severe risk and Spider-Man is trapped in excruciating pain unable to move, during all this time he's being tortured by the fear that he isn't going to get to his Aunt in time, that he's about to fail his aunt just like how he failed his Uncle Ben and it's ultimately that fear and vow he made to Ben that gives him the motivation he needs to push the ton of steel off of him.

In Homecoming, the scene falls flat because it doesn't have nearly the weight it did in the comic. The stakes aren't there. And then there's the moment where he feels hopeless, is pleading for help and is moments away from accepting death when he stares into the Spider-Man mask on the ground and in that moment he doesn't think of his Uncle Ben and the promise he made to him. He isn't reminded of the reason why he BECAME Spider-Man and he doesn't hear "With great power comes great responsibility" instead he hears Tony Stark's voice. And for me that was the moment I said " The hell with this". They took one of the greatest and most iconic moments of Spider-Man's history that was supposed to be about Aunt May and Uncle Ben and they made it all about Tony Stark.

 

[fan4stic]

I think by taking away the defining aspects of the character, with or without race change, the character, even with the name, is more of an OC, which I think can make even naming the character that in first place have no point.

Why can't Zendaya play a sassy attractive redhead party girl named Mary-Jane Watson who has a troubled homelife?

Why can't we cast an at least 5'10/11 white, black, spanish, indian, asian and/or native american actor to play Flash Thompson and have him be athletic?

Why can't they cast a brunette actress to play Betty or at least dye Angourie Rice's hair dark, instead of having her weirdly look like Gwen Stacy?

Why not just call him Ganke instead of Ned Leeds?

Why have Peter be at a school like that and not a normal high school?

Why have Aunt May's attractiveness be a subplot?

I don't have a huge issue with some of these, because I think it's clear we're never gonna see Ned be suspected of being the hobgoblin or anything. Or have Flash join the army and become Agent Venom. Or have Betty work for the Daily Bugle. But I think that also raises the question of why even bother to give the illusion of them being their comic characters? Flash and MJ are the ones that make me question it more.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think by taking away the defining aspects of the character, with or without race change, the character, even with the name, is more of an OC, which I think can make even naming the character that in first place have no point.

Why can't Zendaya play a sassy attractive redhead party girl named Mary-Jane Watson who has a troubled homelife?

Why can't we cast an at least 5'10/11 white, black, spanish, indian, asian and/or native american actor to play Flash Thompson and have him be athletic?

Why can't they cast a brunette actress to play Betty or at least dye Angourie Rice's hair dark, instead of having her weirdly look like Gwen Stacy?

Why not just call him Ganke instead of Ned Leeds?

Why have Peter be at a school like that and not a normal high school?

Why have Aunt May's attractiveness be a subplot?

I don't have a huge issue with some of these, because I think it's clear we're never gonna see Ned be suspected of being the hobgoblin or anything. Or have Flash join the army and become Agent Venom. Or have Betty work for the Daily Bugle. But I think that also raises the question of why even bother to give the illusion of them being their comic characters? Flash and MJ are the ones that make me question it more.

I hope this Ned becomes the Hoggoblin and Flash becomes Agent Venom and then they battle it out. And don't wait until they're older or more in shape. Make it while they're still in high school. That would be a laugh.

 

[Manasrepublic]

What would have made things awesome and super inaccurate was if they showed Flash to be a secret agent of shield posing as a high school student but he gets shot in the head in the first half hour of the movie.

Jokes aside, I don’t mind some of the changes. Seeing a more hip younger aunt may who knows his secret could have some really cool humorous situations yet also serious consequences.

I do wish they would cast an uncle ben though in a flash back. It would be good to see that amazing moral compass for Peter even in a flash back

 

[CaptainWagner]

Lol chill dude. Let me explain. This flash is a small scrawny kid who talks bs. No kid today would do that atleast not without a group of kids behind him. He is more of a nerd than peter is. Like I said he would seem more of a internet troll who picks on peter online but would t say anything if peter stepped to him. He just doesn’t seem like a bully. He seems like he’d be beat up if he even so much as look at someone wrong. Again bigger stronger jock types are more intimidating then some short kid who talks trash with nothing to back it up. Most people are scared of the bigger kid. Bullies still beat up kids. It’s not so different from before

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as aggressive. Maybe it's just really personal, because Tony's Flash reminds me so much of the primary bully from my own high school experience. Maybe my experience isn't the norm. But most people my age I've encountered agree it's an accurate portrayal of contemporary high school culture.

 

[ironwez20]

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as aggressive. Maybe it's just really personal, because Tony's Flash reminds me so much of the primary bully from my own high school experience. Maybe my experience isn't the norm. But most people my age I've encountered agree it's an accurate portrayal of contemporary high school culture.

I’m sorry to hear that. Yea bullies vary. I guess I’m seeing it in my shoes. If someone like tony’s Flash stepped to me like that I’d laugh and pay him no mind.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I do wish they would cast an uncle ben though in a flash back. It would be good to see that amazing moral compass for Peter even in a flash back

That Starks role though. Stark is his mentor. which makes Uncle ben harder to do when you are juggling morals between the 2 father figures.

 

[Dark Raven]

Now that Marvel have the Fantastic Four back, Ben Grimm can be Uncle Ben to Peter Parker.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as aggressive. Maybe it's just really personal, because Tony's Flash reminds me so much of the primary bully from my own high school experience. Maybe my experience isn't the norm. But most people my age I've encountered agree it's an accurate portrayal of contemporary high school culture.

Yeah, the (honestly small amount of) bullying I saw in school was nothing like TV or movies. It was almost all verbal, and probably largely online. I don't remember ever seeing a typical "TV bully" scenario.

I recorded a video about the same topic as this thread, actually. Coming out Friday. I like this version of Spider-Man, but I can't act like many of the complaints aren't valid.

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah, the (honestly small amount of) bullying I saw in school was nothing like TV or movies. It was almost all verbal, and probably largely online. I don't remember ever seeing a typical "TV bully" scenario.

I recorded a video about the same topic as this thread, actually. Coming out Friday. I like this version of Spider-Man, but I can't act like many of the complaints aren't valid.

Well I only mostly know the "typical TV bully" scenario in real life. First off, "online" didn't even exist at the time. And then while there was verbal bullying, it was always accompanied by physical violence and abuse. And the teachers would just dismiss it as horseplay and boys having fun - not seeing it as anything serious at all or worthy of suspension or expulsion.

But then some of the teachers were physically violent and even overtly racist and encouraged some of the verbal and physical behaviour from pupils. They would never get away with this sort of thing today.

 

[Manasrepublic]

That Starks role though. Stark is his mentor. which makes Uncle ben harder to do when you are juggling morals between the 2 father figures.

That’s a fair point; I just would have loved to see who they would have cast as a younger Uncle Ben. John Cusak would have been a great pick!

 

[UltimateWebhead]

You want to analyze Ditko's Flash Thompson he was more of a verbal bully than a physical one, the most physical he got is pushing Peter in Amazing Fantasy 15, or maybe trying to take that thing that formulates the true identity of Spider-Man by moving toward him to try and touch that sheet of paper.
Peter punched Flash more than the other way around in the Ditko run.

There are some flashback stories that show Flash being more aggressive toward Peter than Steve Ditko or even Kurt Busiek and Pat Ollife ever made him look.
And he was more aggressive in the Ultimate line of comics, that is one series that really made Flash resort to physical beating.


I warmed up to Spider-Man under the wings of the Russo brothers though, they made some decisions I don't like such as making him casually unmask in front of other meta powered characters, and talking about the science of stuff with older heroes he fights against. His portrayal in Homecoming is not natural progression from Civil War.

I'm going to mention how they decided to link Iron Man 2 to Spider-Man and call that kid who tried to stop the villain a child Peter Parker, it's the Sins Past of MCU Spider-Man in making a decision that does not mesh well with what was shown when the character debuted by making his Civil War debut his second appearance, and he wanted to be a hero year before "You can do the things I can do... and do nothing, then the bad stuff happens" makes the death of Ben in this world more awkward and poorly placed.

I agree with most of your post, Aziz. But I think the main point about Flash in this version is that he's not a bully...and by that he's supposed to be an obstacle for Peter. He's nothing more than a nuisance.

The rubble scene sucked.

In the "If This Be Destiny" story in the comic, Aunt May's life is at severe risk and Spider-Man is trapped in excruciating pain unable to move, during all this time he's being tortured by the fear that he isn't going to get to his Aunt in time, that he's about to fail his aunt just like how he failed his Uncle Ben and it's ultimately that fear and vow he made to Ben that gives him the motivation he needs to push the ton of steel off of him.

In Homecoming, the scene falls flat because it doesn't have nearly the weight it did in the comic. The stakes aren't there. And then there's the moment where he feels hopeless, is pleading for help and is moments away from accepting death when he stares into the Spider-Man mask on the ground and in that moment he doesn't think of his Uncle Ben and the promise he made to him. He isn't reminded of the reason why he BECAME Spider-Man and he doesn't hear "With great power comes great responsibility" instead he hears Tony Stark's voice. And for me that was the moment I said " The hell with this". They took one of the greatest and most iconic moments of Spider-Man's history that was supposed to be about Aunt May and Uncle Ben and they made it all about Tony Stark.

I wouldn't say the rubble scene in Homecoming sucked but I certainly felt it was lacking compared to the comic version.

In Homecoming it felt more like hey, here's a cool comic reference. It lacked the importance and the build up from the original story.

The comic version wasn't just about lifting a heavy object...it came at the heel of the brilliant Master Planner Saga. Spider-Man was at the point of complete exhaustion having beat down a bevy of thugs and foiling Ock's plan. Yes, the strength of Ben and possibly losing May is what propels him to find the inner strength to lift the seemingly impossibly weight. And it doesn't always have to be about Ben or May as Spectacular Spider-Man proved. The life of Gwen was literally right in front of him but the idea that Spider-Man does not give up even at the most bleak of moments is still at the core in that adaptation.

Like you say, in Homecoming that weight or purpose wasn't there. The stakes weren't there. The buildup wasn't there. It was just a cool reference of a moment.

Imo, the Washington monument scene dwarfed the rubble scene by miles.

 

[Another_Fool]

That Starks role though. Stark is his mentor. which makes Uncle ben harder to do when you are juggling morals between the 2 father figures.

To segue, Marvel Studios kind of goofed by making Tony be Peter's moral center and not Steve Rogers.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I’m sorry to hear that. Yea bullies vary. I guess I’m seeing it in my shoes. If someone like tony’s Flash stepped to me like that I’d laugh and pay him no mind.

That's what money and popularity does for a person though. I think the broader scope of the problem here is that Peter isn't really an outcast in these movies. If Flash's popularity kept him from being included, it would be more compelling as a bullying narrative, because that's the power that someone like this Flash wields, being a social gatekeeper.

The fact that Peter isn't an outcast in high school here makes sense given the story they're telling, he's at a school built around uplifting nerds. But it definitely changes a lot about his perspective. So I can get why people who loved him because of his social struggle would be put off by this relationship with Flash and its larger ramifications. I would note though, Peter as a social pariah really didn't last very long in the grand scheme of things. Once he got to college, he became pretty darn popular.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

The rubble scene sucked.

In the "If This Be Destiny" story in the comic, Aunt May's life is at severe risk and Spider-Man is trapped in excruciating pain unable to move, during all this time he's being tortured by the fear that he isn't going to get to his Aunt in time, that he's about to fail his aunt just like how he failed his Uncle Ben and it's ultimately that fear and vow he made to Ben that gives him the motivation he needs to push the ton of steel off of him.

In Homecoming, the scene falls flat because it doesn't have nearly the weight it did in the comic. The stakes aren't there. And then there's the moment where he feels hopeless, is pleading for help and is moments away from accepting death when he stares into the Spider-Man mask on the ground and in that moment he doesn't think of his Uncle Ben and the promise he made to him. He isn't reminded of the reason why he BECAME Spider-Man and he doesn't hear "With great power comes great responsibility" instead he hears Tony Stark's voice. And for me that was the moment I said " The hell with this". They took one of the greatest and most iconic moments of Spider-Man's history that was supposed to be about Aunt May and Uncle Ben and they made it all about Tony Stark.

You dare say something bad about likable Peter Parker who has no moments of whining? HUH?!!


I'm going to jump on my bed now and complain about this to my roommate.

I hope this Ned becomes the Hoggoblin and Flash becomes Agent Venom and then they battle it out. And don't wait until they're older or more in shape. Make it while they're still in high school. That would be a laugh.

Add to making Ned making Flash a target and make cops believe he is Hobgoblin.

What would have made things awesome and super inaccurate was if they showed Flash to be a secret agent of shield posing as a high school student but he gets shot in the head in the first half hour of the movie.

I think this sounds familiar......

NAAAAHHh. Never heard of it.

I agree with most of your post, Aziz. But I think the main point about Flash in this version is that he's not a bully...and by that he's supposed to be an obstacle for Peter. He's nothing more than a nuisance.

I miss BMOC Flash. Wonder if they will call him Fred.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

That's what money and popularity does for a person though. I think the broader scope of the problem here is that Peter isn't really an outcast in these movies. If Flash's popularity kept him from being included, it would be more compelling as a bullying narrative, because that's the power that someone like this Flash wields, being a social gatekeeper.

The fact that Peter isn't an outcast in high school here makes sense given the story they're telling, he's at a school built around uplifting nerds. But it definitely changes a lot about his perspective. So I can get why people who loved him because of his social struggle would be put off by this relationship with Flash and its larger ramifications. I would note though, Peter as a social pariah really didn't last very long in the grand scheme of things. Once he got to college, he became pretty darn popular.

It does make sense for this story. And I think it's partly a timing issue...had Marvel been given access to Spider-Man from the get-go imo the version may have been different. Having to try and fit the character into a universe that's already been thru nearly 10 years of development imo has hindered the ability to make choices. And choices may also be restricted due to the deal with Sony. In the comics Spidey was one of the first heroes in Marvel.

But you're right, Peter is not an outcast in this universe. And that hurts his characterization. It may have been relatively short-lived in the comics but it also contributed to Peter's development and growth as a character.

Things may change or improve with FFH but in Homecoming I didn't feel a struggle. There wasn't any of the 'Parker Luck.' The burden of being a hero vs his alter ego.

 

[GuestStar2004]

When you look at MJ thats the moment you kinda question what Marvel were thinking, because you had the character of Liz that could have been his love interest if they didn't wanna use MJ and Gwen again, but instead they decided to create a new character and link her to Mary Jane by giving her the same initials?

They over complicated it. and i think that is what MCU spider-man is. its feeling like they are updating it and that comes out kinda complicated.