The Dark Knight Michael Jai White Cast in TDK

[Keyser Sushi]

given his talent in martial arts, we might see a mob boss that's actually able to face-off w/ batman mano-e-mano (sp?)

Mano a mano - it's Spanish for hand-to-hand. What's amusing is that in Batman 89 Jack said "mano y mano," which is "hand and hand."

Which always makes me chuckle because he basically said he wants to hold hands with Batman. I don't think that's what he meant...

 

[nightwing07]

lol keyser nice manners
i guess u didnt learn much at school or at home

 

[Keyser Sushi]

lol keyser nice manners
i guess u didnt learn much at school or at home

Why are you posting random thoughts that have nothing to do with anything being discussed in this thread? Why did you post a CAPTION in here?

 

[itsthebatman]

I just wanted to comment on this, my friend. The point of Darth Vader's story has always been fall and redemption. The idea that he was a good person who became bad and then good again has always been a central theme of Star Wars.

So I'm not sure what you're saying the problem is with Vader's backstory - is it the fact that he wasn't always evil, or is it the fact that when he wasn't evil he wasn't likeable? Because one point I can more or less concede, the other I can't.

Although even Vader's whininess is consistent with the Star Wars story. Remember that Luke was basically a whiney teenager in ANH and ESB, right? When you watch them in numerical order 1-6 (as I have done, that's a hell of an experience) the fact is that Luke's story mirrors Anakin's, so you watch Luke make these stupid decisions and if you put aside your knowledge of how the story comes out, you realize how close Luke came to complete disaster. So Vader's backstory really draws the Luke/Vader conflict more clearly, and when watching 4-6 you keep seeing Luke do these things and you say, "damn, that's just what his Daddy would have done." And thus when Luke shows up wearing black, choking Gammorreans and threatening Jabba the Hutt's life ("Last mistake YOU'LL ever make!") you realize that Luke is not acting as a Jedi should. He's doing dangerous, wicked things.

I'll qualify my remark. I guess a large part of my problem is with Hayden Christensen. He did not do the part justice at all, never really brought out the tragedy of the character, he truly did jusy come across as whiny. I didn't like him as Anakin, so his fall wasn't as tragic for me. Luke was his father's son, no doubt, but when Mark Hamill is out-acting you (in live action, TAS fans), you're in trouble.
The biggest problem with Anakin Skywalker in Eps II and III was the actor playing him, IMO.

 

[itsthebatman]

Why are you posting random thoughts that have nothing to do with anything being discussed in this thread? Why did you post a CAPTION in here?

Keyser, don't bother. He's been doing that in every thread. You'll get nowhere arguing with him, so don't bother.

 

[sasquatchs]

I'll qualify my remark. I guess a large part of my problem is with Hayden Christensen. He did not do the part justice at all, never really brought out the tragedy of the character, he truly did jusy come across as whiny. I didn't like him as Anakin, so his fall wasn't as tragic for me. Luke was his father's son, no doubt, but when Mark Hamill is out-acting you (in live action, TAS fans), you're in trouble.
The biggest problem with Anakin Skywalker in Eps II and III was the actor playing him, IMO.

Yea, that part really needed someone with pathos. It really wasn't well written either though, his desire for power just came off as him being a brat rather than desperation to save people. The transition from innocent boy to Sith was poor, he didn't reach any significant heights to fall from, never really showed his potential. Palpatine's scenes were mostly brilliant though.

 

[itsthebatman]

Yea, that part really needed someone with pathos. It really wasn't well written either though, his desire for power just came off as him being a brat rather than desperation to save people. The transition from innocent boy to Sith was poor, he didn't reach any significant heights to fall from, never really showed his potential. Palpatine's scenes were mostly brilliant though.

100%. Palpatine was great, and I kept wondering 'Why does he want his little git as his apprentice?'. Especially after he got turned into a flaming torso. If I were Palpatine, I would have cut my losses and tried to find Darth Maul's identical twin brother to take his place.

 

[Steelsheen]

I just wanted to comment on this, my friend. The point of Darth Vader's story has always been fall and redemption. The idea that he was a good person who became bad and then good again has always been a central theme of Star Wars.

So I'm not sure what you're saying the problem is with Vader's backstory - is it the fact that he wasn't always evil, or is it the fact that when he wasn't evil he wasn't likeable? Because one point I can more or less concede, the other I can't.

Although even Vader's whininess is consistent with the Star Wars story. Remember that Luke was basically a whiney teenager in ANH and ESB, right? When you watch them in numerical order 1-6 (as I have done, that's a hell of an experience) the fact is that Luke's story mirrors Anakin's, so you watch Luke make these stupid decisions and if you put aside your knowledge of how the story comes out, you realize how close Luke came to complete disaster. So Vader's backstory really draws the Luke/Vader conflict more clearly, and when watching 4-6 you keep seeing Luke do these things and you say, "damn, that's just what his Daddy would have done." And thus when Luke shows up wearing black, choking Gammorreans and threatening Jabba the Hutt's life ("Last mistake YOU'LL ever make!") you realize that Luke is not acting as a Jedi should. He's doing dangerous, wicked things.

WORD!

I'll qualify my remark. I guess a large part of my problem is with Hayden Christensen. He did not do the part justice at all, never really brought out the tragedy of the character, he truly did jusy come across as whiny. I didn't like him as Anakin, so his fall wasn't as tragic for me. Luke was his father's son, no doubt, but when Mark Hamill is out-acting you (in live action, TAS fans), you're in trouble.
The biggest problem with Anakin Skywalker in Eps II and III was the actor playing him, IMO.

one answer: Lucas sucks as a director (but is a great storyteller)

 

[sasquatchs]

I just wanted to comment on this, my friend. The point of Darth Vader's story has always been fall and redemption. The idea that he was a good person who became bad and then good again has always been a central theme of Star Wars.

So I'm not sure what you're saying the problem is with Vader's backstory - is it the fact that he wasn't always evil, or is it the fact that when he wasn't evil he wasn't likeable? Because one point I can more or less concede, the other I can't.

Although even Vader's whininess is consistent with the Star Wars story. Remember that Luke was basically a whiney teenager in ANH and ESB, right? When you watch them in numerical order 1-6 (as I have done, that's a hell of an experience) the fact is that Luke's story mirrors Anakin's, so you watch Luke make these stupid decisions and if you put aside your knowledge of how the story comes out, you realize how close Luke came to complete disaster. So Vader's backstory really draws the Luke/Vader conflict more clearly, and when watching 4-6 you keep seeing Luke do these things and you say, "damn, that's just what his Daddy would have done." And thus when Luke shows up wearing black, choking Gammorreans and threatening Jabba the Hutt's life ("Last mistake YOU'LL ever make!") you realize that Luke is not acting as a Jedi should. He's doing dangerous, wicked things.

The whiney thing is a nice parallel, but Luke is on some ****hole planet with nothing to do, whereas Anakin was plucked from trillions of lifeforms to join the Jedi, pretty damn special. Some arrogance is probably deserved, all the Jedi were kind of arrogant. You've got to balance that with something to root for though, his deeds didn't live up to expectations. The whole slow moving Jedi mismanagement thing was suprising and pretty well done, I found myself thinking they deserved to perish. But he never amounted to anything, all those midichlorians just so he could throw an old man over a railing

Back to Mr White, is Spawn worth my curiosity to watch?

 

[Steelsheen]

i still hate the midichlorian theory.

 

[Wedge A.]

As a Star Wars fan (Wedge is a character from the films), I thought the prequels were handled poorly. Honestly, in one minute Anakin's going, "What have I done?" And right after, he joins the Dark Side.

And not to mention Obi-Wan's "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Yeah, good writing Mr. Lucas.

 

[Ibn]

What, is that the official explanation?

After reading Frank Miller's YO script, It seems pretty obvious to me that she was meant to be black.

And what the hell does pitof mean? *I feel like I'm about to get slaughtered with "noob" gags*

 

[Keyser Sushi]

The whiney thing is a nice parallel, but Luke is on some ****hole planet with nothing to do, whereas Anakin was plucked from trillions of lifeforms to join the Jedi, pretty damn special. Some arrogance is probably deserved, all the Jedi were kind of arrogant. You've got to balance that with something to root for though, his deeds didn't live up to expectations. The whole slow moving Jedi mismanagement thing was suprising and pretty well done, I found myself thinking they deserved to perish. But he never amounted to anything, all those midichlorians just so he could throw an old man over a railing

You make several points and I want to reply to them separately.

1.) Anakin was plucked from trillions of life-forms to be a Jedi, so he shouldn't be whiney? Did you notice that Anakin had been a slave before he joined the Jedi? And that he was much older than they usually take? The Jedi have an ascetic life - you don't get to own any property, just a lightsaber and some crappy clothes. You can't marry, you can't travel. You take orders all the time. Anakin dreamed of FREEDOM, and he thought joining the Jedi would give him freedom, but it DIDN'T. He just traded one form of slavery for another. That's why he got whiney.

2.) Anakin was likeable enough as a child, if you can get past the thing that bothers a lot of fanboys for some stupid reason - which is that he was a child. He was a likeable kid, he was charismatic and caring and slick. But when he left and joined the Jedi and didn't get the freedom he expected, he got angry. Especially when he's being told he's got all this potential but he doesn't get to DO anything with it... he feels restrained, imprisoned. Hence the "he's holding me back!" stuff.

3.) Just threw an old man over a railing? Sure. But consider what happened to Anakin in Episode III. He traded up his second form of slavery for a third form. He thought that Palpatine was offering him power, offering him the power to control his destiny. But instead Palpatine ended up owning him. So Anakin is screwed. Again. He loses literally EVERYTHING, and all he has left is his "friendship" with Palpatine. It's Palpatine's technology that's keeping him alive. It's Palpatine who has given him a position of power where he commands millions of troops. It's Palpatine who has made him a feared warlord. He has betrayed everybody who ever loved him. If he stands up to Palpatine he loses whatever he has left. By throwing that old man over a railing, Vader does the one thing he's never done before. He makes a completely selfless decision. And it sets him free.

Which is exactly what the Jedi were trying to teach him all along.

From another perspective, Anakin let his need for love, his need to control everything and keep people where he wanted them, to lead him down the dark path. He sold his soul for love. When he saved Luke it was also an act of love. But it was an act that he expected to gain nothing from. Before it was always, "I refuse to lose," but when he saved Luke it was, "I refuse to let you lose." Selfishness vs. selflessness.

Back to Mr White, is Spawn worth my curiosity to watch?

Sure, as long as you countenance the fact it's exactly like Mark Steven Johnson's Ghost Rider, only the effects aren't as good.

 

[DV8]

Mano a mano - it's Spanish for hand-to-hand. What's amusing is that in Batman 89 Jack said "mano y mano," which is "hand and hand."

Which always makes me chuckle because he basically said he wants to hold hands with Batman. I don't think that's what he meant...

you know . . . I knew it means hand-to-hand in spanish, and I even know some spanish, so I knew how it translates . . . I guess I just had a major brain fart/lazy-stoner moment

 

[Keyser Sushi]

As a Star Wars fan (Wedge is a character from the films), I thought the prequels were handled poorly. Honestly, in one minute Anakin's going, "What have I done?" And right after, he joins the Dark Side.

When was the last time you felt only one emotion at a time? Anakin was obviously conflicted. That was the point, man - he KNEW he'd done wrong, he was horrified with his actions, but at the same time he'd crossed a line that he knew he could never un-cross. He'd done something he could never undo. Crossed the point of no return.

I once had a nightmare that I killed a man in anger, and that my best friend drove me out of the state. But as we rode away in the car I was sitting there horrified at myself over what I had done, knowing that I would never be free of the blood on my hands. That my soul was damaged and I could never be the same person ever again. That was a horrible nightmare. When I saw Episode III, that "what have I done" scene brought that feeling back. That's exactly what Anakin was going through.

And not to mention Obi-Wan's "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Yeah, good writing Mr. Lucas.

That point, I concede.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

one answer: Lucas sucks as a director (but is a great storyteller)

In a nutshell, yes.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I'll qualify my remark. I guess a large part of my problem is with Hayden Christensen. He did not do the part justice at all, never really brought out the tragedy of the character, he truly did jusy come across as whiny. I didn't like him as Anakin, so his fall wasn't as tragic for me. Luke was his father's son, no doubt, but when Mark Hamill is out-acting you (in live action, TAS fans), you're in trouble.
The biggest problem with Anakin Skywalker in Eps II and III was the actor playing him, IMO.

I'm with steelsheen on this one - it's not Hayden it's Lucas. Really, Hayden played what he had to work with. With a better director he'd have been brilliant. If you look at what Hayden did in Episode II, he mixed some Jake Lloyd and some James Earl Jones in his performance. In Episode III he gave it more his own thing, Anakin is more heroic and more mature, but basically a very moody tool of a Jedi. He was able to show some joy and happiness, though, while at the same time keeping the James Earl Jones stuff going on (listen to Hayden's line deliveries in AOTC and ROTS - he's using Jones' speech cadence). Really very clever. An Irvin Kirshner would have gotten a stellar performance out of Christensen.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Never mind Hayden,i'm still digging this casting,Bats and Spawn can throw some hams at each other grills

 

[Kleric]

Keyser Sushi you are the man. You have quite eloquently put forward many of my feelings on the Star Wars prequels. One can often see potential in actors who are stifled by poor scripts and limited direction. George Clooney comes to mind. A decent actor, but when stuck with the script and director he had in B&R how could it be anything but trash? Could Christian Bale have done any better with that material.

There are so many factors that contribute to a good movie, when one is off it can taint everything.

On a “on topic” note, White is a great martial artist, and a decant actor I think he was wasted in Spawn (bad writing strikes again) I wonder if he will have a confrontation with Bat's. He could even be a leftover from the League of Shadows who built a little something for himself in what's left of Gotham.

 

[GeoffTheArtist]

Hells yeah.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Never mind Hayden,i'm still digging this casting,Bats and Spawn can throw some hams at each other grills

Dangit, now I'll never get to finish those discussions about SW.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Dangit, now I'll never get to finish those discussions about SW.

Oh go ahead,that wasn't a mod "never mind Hayden" that was just me not caring and wanting to talk about ham throwing and grillst:

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Keyser Sushi you are the man.

Well, shucks.

You have quite eloquently put forward many of my feelings on the Star Wars prequels. One can often see potential in actors who are stifled by poor scripts and limited direction. George Clooney comes to mind. A decent actor, but when stuck with the script and director he had in B&R how could it be anything but trash? Could Christian Bale have done any better with that material.

There are so many factors that contribute to a good movie, when one is off it can taint everything.

Too right -- every film has its flaws, and I don't mind discussing them, as long as we're honest about what the flaws are and who is responsible. I wouldn't want Hayden to take the blame for Lucas's shortcomings.

On a “on topic” note, White is a great martial artist, and a decant actor I think he was wasted in Spawn (bad writing strikes again) I wonder if he will have a confrontation with Bat's. He could even be a leftover from the League of Shadows who built a little something for himself in what's left of Gotham.

Heh, that's one hell of a cool idea, man.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Oh go ahead,that wasn't a mod "never mind Hayden" that was just me not caring and wanting to talk about ham throwing and grillst:

Haha, awesome.

Had to be sure. Guys with red names post and threads crash screeching into the embankment...

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Hayden has sucked since before the Star Wars prequels.

Yeah, well... you'd know, buddy-boy.