The Dark Knight Michael Jai White Cast in TDK

[sasquatchs]

You make several points and I want to reply to them separately.

1.) Anakin was plucked from trillions of life-forms to be a Jedi, so he shouldn't be whiney? Did you notice that Anakin had been a slave before he joined the Jedi? And that he was much older than they usually take? The Jedi have an ascetic life - you don't get to own any property, just a lightsaber and some crappy clothes. You can't marry, you can't travel. You take orders all the time. Anakin dreamed of FREEDOM, and he thought joining the Jedi would give him freedom, but it DIDN'T. He just traded one form of slavery for another. That's why he got whiney.

The Jedi being cumbersome and restrictive was played well, but the only freedom he really wanted was to be recognised as better than everyone else, and advance up the ladder into the exclusive council. He could have left and had the girl, but he was greedy, he needed the power too.

2.) Anakin was likeable enough as a child, if you can get past the thing that bothers a lot of fanboys for some stupid reason - which is that he was a child. He was a likeable kid, he was charismatic and caring and slick. But when he left and joined the Jedi and didn't get the freedom he expected, he got angry. Especially when he's being told he's got all this potential but he doesn't get to DO anything with it... he feels restrained, imprisoned. Hence the "he's holding me back!" stuff.

Again, the Jedi holding him back was great, but they never actually demonstrated that he has superior skills in an effective way, the only thing he had was huge ambition and greed. Wanting more than an inept council is willing to give is fine, but his motives were never noble in 2 or 3, he should have been with the Sith from the beginning. Too big a gap between 1 + 2

3.) Just threw an old man over a railing? Sure. But consider what happened to Anakin in Episode III. He traded up his second form of slavery for a third form. He thought that Palpatine was offering him power, offering him the power to control his destiny. But instead Palpatine ended up owning him. So Anakin is screwed. Again. He loses literally EVERYTHING, and all he has left is his "friendship" with Palpatine. It's Palpatine's technology that's keeping him alive. It's Palpatine who has given him a position of power where he commands millions of troops. It's Palpatine who has made him a feared warlord. He has betrayed everybody who ever loved him. If he stands up to Palpatine he loses whatever he has left. By throwing that old man over a railing, Vader does the one thing he's never done before. He makes a completely selfless decision. And it sets him free.

Just joking here, his whole struggle in the original trilogy was great, it was his fall from grace that was badly handled. When exactly were Obi-Wan and Anakin good friends? It was a bad relationship that Anakin occasionally found tolerable. His whining could have worked far better if it was balanced with noble intentions

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I hate you!


But I forgive you.

But in all seriousness, he's really not a good actor.

Your sigs rule.

Ummm... oh yeah. I've never seen any of Hayden's movies outside of the prequels, but I thought what he did was fine if he'd had a director to really draw a performance out of him. Lucas is not know for his skill at directing actors.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Haha, awesome.

Had to be sure. Guys with red names post and threads crash screeching into the embankment...

lolt: That's unfortunate b/c 90% of the time i just post as a regular poster

All joking about hams aside,i do think White is the kind of actor Nolan can utilize really well here,with his presence and martial arts skills he will be a believable and formidable foe for Batman.

 

[Saint]

I mean, there are some villains I never want to sympathise with.

No argument here.

Okay. I guess that's why you said what you said about All-Stars, as well. All I will say is that regardless of the degree of change, considering that the movies are not in continuity with the comics, I consider them Elseworlds.

I consider them adaptations of what they adapt. Presently, they are adapting mainstream Batman comics, so they are not Elseworlds. When they adapt something other than mainstream Batman comics, I will re-evaluate this position.

 

[sasquatchs]

lolt: That's unfortunate b/c 90% of the time i just post as a regular poster

All joking about hams aside,i do think White is the kind of actor Nolan can utilize really well here,with his presence and martial arts skills he will be a believable and formidable foe for Batman.

We definitely need more like him, there's a dearth of good fighters in Nolan's Gotham now Ra's is gone. On the other hand we need less focus on Batman's physical prowess this time, that had a negative impact on Begins to an extent.

 

[Saint]

As far as this Star Wars discussion is concerned, there was no fundamental problem with the story, but there was a fundamental problem with how it was scripted. Anakin should have come off as confused and desperate, falling to the dark side in a desperate attempt to hang on to his life. Instead, his fall was abrupt, boring, and frankly, it was petty. I hate to bring up Angel again (because I don't know how many people here watched it, and there is a lot of Whedon-bashing on these boards), but Connor's descent into madness in season four is an excellent example of how Anakin's fall should have been handled. Violence was all Connor had left, where Anakin just kinda said "Nobody likes me so I'm evil now!"

 

[Keyser Sushi]

The Jedi being cumbersome and restrictive was played well, but the only freedom he really wanted was to be recognised as better than everyone else, and advance up the ladder into the exclusive council. He could have left and had the girl, but he was greedy, he needed the power too.

You got it wrong. Remember in Episode I he had a dream he'd freed all the slaves, and he wanted to see all the planets in the galaxy? He thought being a Jedi would give him the freedom to do all those things, but it didn't. Lucas as a writer doesn't draw his conflicts very clearly, so you have to really take every line of dialogue and every emotion for what it is and put it in context, because he sure as hell doesn't connect many dots for you. Anakin's lust for power? That's about freedom, man - freeing slaves, being able to be his own boss (he was a SLAVE, you don't think he's tired of having people bossing him around?). People start telling him he's meant for great things, that echoes what his mother always told him. He's waiting for his time to be this great hero. To be the man who changes everthing, who rectifies certain inequities. But he never gets that chance. What you said - he could have left and had the girl, but he was greedy. That part you're exactly right about. He wanted it ALL - the power and the money, the money and the power, minute after minute, hour after hour, Coolio get out of my brain... where was I? Oh yeah...

Again, the Jedi holding him back was great, but they never actually demonstrated that he has superior skills in an effective way, the only thing he had was huge ambition and greed. Wanting more than an inept council is willing to give is fine, but his motives were never noble in 2 or 3, he should have been with the Sith from the beginning. Too big a gap between 1 + 2

He didn't have superior skills at all. He sad superior *potential*. You confuse the two - and so did he. As for his motives never being noble? Sure they were. He was in love - that's noble. He wanted to save his mother - that's noble. He wanted to beat the bad guys and end the war - that's noble. He wanted to save his wife's life - that's most assuredly noble. It's not that his motives weren't noble (they most assuredly were) it's that he wanted too much. He wouldn't choose - wouldn't choose between love or duty, wouldn't choose between the needs of the many and the needs of the one. He wanted to have everything, and he forced the issue, and ended up losing it all instead. Was he egotistical? Sure. Being told you're the savior of an entire galaxy will do that to you, especially when you're a teenager with a massive chip on your shoulder.

Just joking here, his whole struggle in the original trilogy was great, it was his fall from grace that was badly handled. When exactly were Obi-Wan and Anakin good friends? It was a bad relationship that Anakin occasionally found tolerable. His whining could have worked far better if it was balanced with noble intentions

Again, his intentions were always noble. I do, however, concur that Anakin's friendship with Obi-Wan wasn't shown enough. It was there, for sure - you saw it in the beginning of Episodes II and III - the joking around, the cameraderie, the guys screwing off and taking brotherly verbal jabs at each other during combat. There just should have been MORE of that. Except that it was dramatically necessary to separate the two of them in order to remove Anakin's mentor figure and make him more vulnerable to bad influences.

 

[Saint]

You got it wrong. Remember in Episode I he had a dream he'd freed all the slaves, and he wanted to see all the planets in the galaxy? He thought being a Jedi would give him the freedom to do all those things, but it didn't. Lucas as a writer doesn't draw his conflicts very clearly, so you have to really take every line of dialogue and every emotion for what it is and put it in context, because he sure as hell doesn't connect many dots for you. Anakin's lust for power? That's about freedom, man - freeing slaves, being able to be his own boss (he was a SLAVE, you don't think he's tired of having people bossing him around?). People start telling him he's meant for great things, that echoes what his mother always told him. He's waiting for his time to be this great hero. To be the man who changes everthing, who rectifies certain inequities. But he never gets that chance.

Man, the slavery angle would have been absolutely wonderful if it had actually been made apparent in the films. That's just a bloody fantastic idea.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

lolt: That's unfortunate b/c 90% of the time i just post as a regular poster

And we love you for it, man. :heart:

All joking about hams aside,i do think White is the kind of actor Nolan can utilize really well here,with his presence and martial arts skills he will be a believable and formidable foe for Batman.

Yeah, I suppose we have to assume that's an angle they'll use, otherwise why cast Michael Jai White... should be fun.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

No argument here.

I consider them adaptations of what they adapt. Presently, they are adapting mainstream Batman comics, so they are not Elseworlds. When they adapt something other than mainstream Batman comics, I will re-evaluate this position.

Fair enough - I'm just saying that it's a good mindset to have, since change is inevitable and it might make it easier for some people to accept change if they have that "elseworlds" perspective.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

As far as this Star Wars discussion is concerned, there was no fundamental problem with the story, but there was a fundamental problem with how it was scripted. Anakin should have come off as confused and desperate, falling to the dark side in a desperate attempt to hang on to his life. Instead, his fall was abrupt, boring, and frankly, it was petty. I hate to bring up Angel again (because I don't know how many people here watched it, and there is a lot of Whedon-bashing on these boards), but Connor's descent into madness in season four is an excellent example of how Anakin's fall should have been handled. Violence was all Connor had left, where Anakin just kinda said "Nobody likes me so I'm evil now!"

To be fair, I think the "confused and desperate" angle is what Lucas wanted, he just isn't a good enough writer to pull it off. The elements are all there, they just aren't put together well.

 

[Goodfellas]

YOU GUYS ARE ALLL JUDGING DAVID BANNER WHEN HE HASNT EVEN FOR REAL ACTED IN ANYTHING BIGT


so why not give the man a chance for crying out loud




my god this place is full of jerks and ignorants i dont even know why i come here for crying out loud


id heard from comingsoon.net that this place wasnt exactly the best place but damn i should have listened ot them

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Man, the slavery angle would have been absolutely wonderful if it had actually been made apparent in the films. That's just a bloody fantastic idea.

Like I said, dude, the pieces were all there, Lucas just didn't put them together well.

 

[sasquatchs]

You got it wrong. Remember in Episode I he had a dream he'd freed all the slaves, and he wanted to see all the planets in the galaxy?

I had no problems with his motivation in 1, it was the transition into 2 that was too large. We missed the good part.

He didn't have superior skills at all. He sad superior *potential*. You confuse the two - and so did he. As for his motives never being noble? Sure they were. He was in love - that's noble. He wanted to save his mother - that's noble. He wanted to beat the bad guys and end the war - that's noble. He wanted to save his wife's life - that's most assuredly noble. It's not that his motives weren't noble (they most assuredly were) it's that he wanted too much. He wouldn't choose - wouldn't choose between love or duty, wouldn't choose between the needs of the many and the needs of the one. He wanted to have everything, and he forced the issue, and ended up losing it all instead. Was he egotistical? Sure. Being told you're the savior of an entire galaxy will do that to you, especially when you're a teenager with a massive chip on your shoulder.

At no time selfless though, it was always about him. He was a terrible match for the Jedi from the start, which was Lucas' point. But there was never really a fall from grace, he was always a perfect fit for the Sith. Luke had less lofty ambitions, Anakin was always greedy.

His potential is what I'm getting at, that was only shown by saying he had more midi-chlorians than Yoda. Never fulfilling his promise was a very tragic idea, but it was poorly hinted at, his arrogance was purely based on reputation with barely a whiff of demonstration beyond other Jedi. That could have contrasted well with his pathetic robotic visage, but in the end he was always weak. They may as well have mixed the blood samples up. The Force was poorly used altogether though.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I had no problems with his motivation in 1, it was the transition into 2 that was too large. We missed the good part.

I think the good part is between 2 and 3. Genndy Tartakovsky will back me up on this.

At no time selfless though, it was always about him. He was a terrible match for the Jedi from the start, which was Lucas' point. But there was never really a fall from grace, he was always a perfect fit for the Sith. Luke had less lofty ambitions, Anakin was always greedy.

He'd have been fine as a Jedi if he'd been a baby when they adopted him, as all their other students are. He was certainly selfless in episode I. It's just that, because he'd lived 10 years in the real world on his ****-hole planet, he had the thirst for material possessions, the thirst for freedom and love and power. If he'd been adopted into the Jedi as a baby, that would never have happened. But the Jedi were looking for the savior foretold in the prophecy, and his midichlorian count was pretty conclusive in his favor. The Jedi just didn't know how to reach him. They themselves had never been normal people, they were all raised from infancy in this ascetic lifestyle, material possessions are meaningless to them, wealth is meaningless to them, power is meaningless to them except as a burden that they solemnly bear. The Jedi could never really understand Anakin, could never understand his motivations. They never looked too closely at what he was doing, either.

His potential is what I'm getting at, that was only shown by saying he had more midi-chlorians than Yoda. Never fulfilling his promise was a very tragic idea, but it was poorly hinted at, his arrogance was purely based on reputation with barely a whiff of demonstration beyond other Jedi. That could have contrasted well with his pathetic robotic visage, but in the end he was always weak. They may as well have mixed the blood samples up. The Force was poorly used altogether though.

Yes, in the end Darth Vader is a big gimp - he sold his soul and spent his life in bondage. Again, all the ingredients are there, Lucas knew what he was trying to do, and I can see it, and it's great - except that Lucas just doesn't have the skills so he couldn't pull it off. He did fine with the story concepts - he's good at that part. But as a writer of emotion and a director of actors he falls flat.

 

[Crook]

Spielberg was supposed to direct the prequels, but he insisted Lucas do it because it was his baby.

I liked SW better when it was a foster child.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Spielberg was supposed to direct the prequels, but he insisted Lucas do it because it was his baby.

That's true.

Although knowing Spielberg he'd have tacked a happy ending onto Episode III where Anakin discovers Padme isn't dead and goes home to her and then Lucas would have digitally erased Episodes 4-6.

I liked SW better when it was a foster child.

Yeah, as I say - Lucas is great with story ideas, but definitely not the greatest director out there. Better than Richard Marquand, though. Ugh. Not as good as Irvin Kirshner.

 

[sasquatchs]

Why did Lucas want to direct anyway? He seemed to spend alot of time moaning that he wanted to get back to smaller films, which he still hasn't

 

[Crook]

He offered a few directors first, but they all declined.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Why did Lucas want to direct anyway? He seemed to spend alot of time moaning that he wanted to get back to smaller films, which he still hasn't

That's true.

Lucas has a love-hate relationship with Star Wars, I think. He loves the idea, but when he created it he didn't know he was creating his life's work. He thought he'd make the movie and then move on to other things. But he had so much story that he realized it would be a series, assuming his first one did well enough, so he started with ANH. But making the movie the way he wanted to was stressful and he had a heart attack and ILM pissed him off on that first movie, and nothing worked right and he just got disgusted with directing and decided to hire another guy to do ESB for him. By ROTJ was sick of doing SW and ended the series.

It was Jurassic Park that convinced him the technology had reached a point that making Star Wars movies wouldn't be painful or quite so stressful for him anymore, so he started getting excited about it again and there was a market out there for the prequels, so he did them. He was originally going to do TPM to set the tone (as he had done with ANH) and then hand the reins over, but Spielberg said he ought to do them all himself, and after TPM Lucas had to admit that he'd had fun doing it. So he decided to just plow on.

But yes, he wanted to get it over with so he could finally close that chapter of his life after 30 years. But I don't think Lucas will ever really be free of Star Wars. I think he loves it, he just hates that it took up so much of his life. And yet I do think he's proud of it, too.

 

[raybia]

Source: http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2007/07/03/spawn-star-takes-a-gamble-on-dark-knight-role/

This is great news. I'm hoping that Nolan will take advantage from White's martial art skills. This guy can mop up anyone cast in TDK in real life.

He is also a decent enough actor to handle this role under Nolan.

 

[TheBatman072]

YOU GUYS ARE ALLL JUDGING DAVID BANNER WHEN HE HASNT EVEN FOR REAL ACTED IN ANYTHING BIGT

so why not give the man a chance for crying out loud

my god this place is full of jerks and ignorants i dont even know why i come here for crying out loud

id heard from comingsoon.net that this place wasnt exactly the best place but damn i should have listened ot them

Okay. Goodbye.

 

[Octoberist]

I didn't like the way David Banner was acting in that MTV interview, not b/c he's a rapper. He acted very cocky and..I don't know...it was a turnoff. Think about this, david is a college grad and seems to be geek, however, I didn't see that in the video. I just saw a cocky guy who thinks he got the role.

 

[Warhammer]

Haha, David Banner must be pissed.

 

[Octoberist]

The thing was...there's a confidentiality agreement that Banner probably broke.

Let's say he was pretty close in getting it. He was bragging about a role that he AUDITIONED for. And it's not just some movie..it's friggin' Batman.

That alone probably ruined his chances from the get-go. And the fact he revealed the name of the actual character didn't help either.