House of the Dragon Season 1, Episode 6: "The Princess and the Queen"

[Spider-Fan83]

thinking back to "the Hunt" episode there was some ironic foreshadowing... when Lyonel first approached the King with the suggestion of Laenor (for who should get his daughter's hand)... the King first assumed he was there to suggestion his own son, Ser Harwin (since Lyonel was quick to turn down that idea, showing a lack of bias, I'd imagine was one of the reasons he was picked as his new Hand)

but, makes you wonder had the King tried to force that arrangement on her at that time, would she have protected? (just out of spite) even through that is who she ends up with later on

Nerdy question: could Criston Cole be the father of Rhaenyra's first child? Or does the plot/timing not line up for this possibility?

I guess it depends on how much time had passed between "them being together" an the wedding

it would have had to been only in within a couple weeks or month at best, for her to still not be showing any signs of being with child, as well as to have passed the baby off as being from her "first time" with her new husband (after the wedding)

like if she had already been a 2-3 months along, it would have been more suspicious if she had her first baby only 6-7 month after the wedding (it wasn't an exact science back then, but, they knew the basics)

I don't recall the exact timeline of these events (if it was mentioned)

they never really did saw rather or not she took the "Moon Tea" (assuming it even worked)

I think the possibility is still there

 

[CaptainWagner]

Allicent has good probable deniability but that's not why she's doing the **** she's doing.

Exactly, she's just being a spiteful *****, this isn't even about politics anymore.

Alicent is getting treated wildly unfairly by a solid portion of the internet, IMO. She's absolutely in the right to not want to legitimize Rhaenyra's bastards by marrying her daughter to one. She's made herself miserable all her life trying painstakingly to follow the rules of their society and the expectations of her family - Now she's forced to watch Rhaenyra flaunt all standards of honor and decency and have the entire court try to gaslight her into disbelieving the obvious.

It's a Skyler White situation all over again.

 

[InCali]

I think the controversy is a result of good writing. I prefer that things are not black and white. For example, Rhaenyra IS the heir to the throne and no matter who the father is, this is an opportunity for Alicent to protect her children and have an heir to the throne. No one is exactly perfect here and no one is completely in the wrong. They are all human beings with foibles. Rhaenyra has an agreement with her "husband" for the "good of the realm" and her father played a big role in this arrangement also. Given that her husband isn't the least bit interested in her, what should she be doing?

Nothing is that cut and dry and the writers have intentionally made that clear; or so it seems to me.

Remember Team Cap or Team Iron Man? Same basic thing.

 

[Elayis]

I'm not sure I like how they seem to be handling older Allicent and Criston. They just come off as one-note jilted ex's, and I'm already bored of it. Daemon's in a similar boat, as well, where he went from murdering his wife in the last episode to being an absent father and husband (which actually might be a good thing for his kids).

The show's turning into The Soprano's where there's not a single likable character to root for (gave up on that show after the first season).

It's still watchable (and infinitely better than GoT season 6-8), but if the pace of events doesn't pick up I might just binge future seasons. It was really cool seeing Vhagar and the Dragonpit, though.

 

[Elayis]

Alicent is getting treated wildly unfairly by a solid portion of the internet, IMO. She's absolutely in the right to not want to legitimize Rhaenyra's bastards by marrying her daughter to one. She's made herself miserable all her life trying painstakingly to follow the rules of their society and the expectations of her family - Now she's forced to watch Rhaenyra flaunt all standards of honor and decency and have the entire court try to gaslight her into disbelieving the obvious.

It's a Skyler White situation all over again.

No one forced Allicent to marry Viserys and have his kids. Her and her father's scheming is exactly why this is even an issue at all. Allicent's the embodiment of internalized misogyny, and her own self-hatred is at the heart of her bitterness. At least Rhaenyra owns who she is and doesn't kowtow to anyone.

Allicent's certainly a victim, but that doesn't make her likable. She's old enough now (and certainly once Viserys dies) to have the agency to make better choices, but her own pride keeps her from making rational choices.

I have to admit I'm sort of looking forward to what's in store for her.

 

[InCali]

No one forced Allicent to marry Viserys and have his kids. Her and her father's scheming is exactly why this is even an issue at all. Allicent's the embodiment of internalized misogyny, and her own self-hatred is at the heart of her bitterness. At least Rhaenyra owns who she is and doesn't kowtow to anyone.

Allicent's certainly a victim, but that doesn't make her likable. She's old enough now (and certainly once Viserys dies) to have the agency to make better choices, but her own pride keeps her from making rational choices.

I have to admit I'm sort of looking forward to what's in store for her.

Alicent comes off to me as a spoiled, self entitled child who doesn't feel like she has to make any compromises (other than being in a gross relationship). Maybe she's right.

We're all going to see what we think are ebbs and flows to this show. In a few weeks, we'll be in a better position to judge the 1st season.

 

[Elayis]

Alicent comes off to me as a spoiled, self entitled child who doesn't feel like she has to make any compromises (other than being in a gross relationship). Maybe she's right.

We're all going to see what we think are ebbs and flows to this show. In a few weeks, we'll be in a better position to judge the 1st season.

I read the book so I know what happens, it's just a question of how the showrunners handle it and whether they can make you feel empathy for Allicent when it does. I really like Olivia Cooke but she's not being given much to work with. She's both angry and gullible, which is not a good combination. Spoiled is definitely an apt description.

 

[InCali]

I read the book so I know what happens, it's just a question of how the showrunners handle it and whether they can make you feel empathy for Allicent when it does. I really like Olivia Cooke but she's not being given much to work with. She's both angry and gullible, which is not a good combination. Spoiled is definitely an apt description.

I haven't read the books so I don't have the same issues I have with RoP. I've read those books and have something of a difficult time seeing it as "real".

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

No one forced Allicent to marry Viserys and have his kids. Her and her father's scheming is exactly why this is even an issue at all. Allicent's the embodiment of internalized misogyny, and her own self-hatred is at the heart of her bitterness. At least Rhaenyra owns who she is and doesn't kowtow to anyone.

Allicent's certainly a victim, but that doesn't make her likable. She's old enough now (and certainly once Viserys dies) to have the agency to make better choices, but her own pride keeps her from making rational choices.

I have to admit I'm sort of looking forward to what's in store for her.

I'm not sure how one gets the idea that Alicent wasn't forced into that marriage. Her father definitely made her do that and other things against her own desires, not least evidenced by the self destructive ticks she had. She was just a dutiful daughter, contrasted with Rhaenyra who often just refused her duties and got away with it. We just don't see as much of Alicent's relationship with her father but I highly doubt he's as lenient as Viserys, which is likely why Alicent does what he says.

 

[#root]

Although I didn’t like how Alicent was behaving this episode, I can still see how things could have brought her to this point. I don’t think she’s spoiled or that she’s been scheming to get ahead. She has only really started to play the game in the last episode. Her marriage to Viserys was the result of her father’s scheming. He’s the one who sent this little girl into the king’s bedroom even though she was clearly uncomfortable and she was also visibly uncomfortable with keeping it a secret from her friend. But she was trying to make amends with Rhaenyra and be a dutiful wife to her creepy, rotting husband until they both broke her trust; Rhaenyra by lying to her about her virginity and Viserys by not telling her about the morning after pill tea he sent to Rhaenyra. She felt betrayed. She was also played by Otto into believing that her kids would be in danger. Then Rhaenyra started having alleged bastard children and Viserys was totally turning a blind eye to it. All this has been going on for 10 years. So I can totally understand her reaction and motivation. The problem is we didn’t see those 10 years. We don’t know what happened and how little by little everything that happened brought Alicent to this point where she’s pushing her trauma on to her children and yelling at her son to be more distrustful of his nephews. I still think that Alicent is a good character, I just think that between the time jump and the change in portrayal, this transition was a little too jarring.

Ser Cristen Cole needs to get the **** over his one night stand though. ****.

 

[Elayis]

I'm not sure how one gets the idea that Alicent wasn't forced into that marriage. Her father definitely made her do that and other things against her own desires, not least evidenced by the self destructive ticks she had. She was just a dutiful daughter, contrasted with Rhaenyra who often just refused her duties and got away with it. We just don't see as much of Alicent's relationship with her father but I highly doubt he's as lenient as Viserys, which is likely why Alicent does what he says.

I suppose there's a certain amount of brainwashing/grooming there (I forgot about the fingernails), but it doesn't make for interesting drama in the way it's being executed. There's nothing else going on with Allicent internally, it's all about her jealousy of Rhaenyra. She's also being hypocritical about hating her for lying when she did with the same thing with Viserys.

Again, it all comes down to her internalized misogyny; she doesn't think Rhaenyra should be the heir because she's a woman, and she shouldn't have had sex (with Criston or Daemon) outside of marriage. She's just jealous that Rhaenyra gets away with things that she couldn't. She even treats her sons Asia they're victims of their nephews. It's one-note and boring.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

I suppose there's a certain amount of brainwashing/grooming there (I forgot about the fingernails), but it doesn't make for interesting drama in the way it's being executed. There's nothing else going on with Allicent internally, it's all about her jealousy of Rhaenyra. She's also being hypocritical about hating her for lying when she did with the same thing with Viserys.

Again, it all comes down to her internalized misogyny; she doesn't think Rhaenyra should be the heir because she's a woman, and she shouldn't have had sex (with Criston or Daemon) outside of marriage. She's just jealous that Rhaenyra gets away with things that she couldn't. She even treats her sons Asia they're victims of their nephews. It's one-note and boring.

Whether you like her or not is a different matter as that's just subjective opinion, I just pointed out that I don't think Alicent ever chose this life based on what we've seen. I think it made her miserable and she just had to grow accustomed to it.

I think her emotions are more complex than what you're describing as well, and I'm not convinced she is against the idea of a woman ruling in itself. There is certainly part of her that just acting from the social norms of that time and place (which makes her know the value put in a woman's virginity), and jealousy over that Rhaenyra can get away with things hardly any other woman can, and probably annoyance over that Rhaenyra still complains about her situation as she has had a much better life than Alicent this far. However I also think that she is legitimately afraid for her life and the lives of her children. Her rejection of Rhaenyra's proposal is also not likely just old resentment but also a feeling that Rhaenyra is severely insulting her by wanting her child married to an obvious bastard.

I think there is plenty to get into with Alicent if they want, but it remains to be seen whether they will.

 

[blackdragon6]

Alicent is getting treated wildly unfairly by a solid portion of the internet, IMO. She's absolutely in the right to not want to legitimize Rhaenyra's bastards by marrying her daughter to one. She's made herself miserable all her life trying painstakingly to follow the rules of their society and the expectations of her family - Now she's forced to watch Rhaenyra flaunt all standards of honor and decency and have the entire court try to gaslight her into disbelieving the obvious.

It's a Skyler White situation all over again.

So it's not spite, it's jealous resentment lol.

 

[kvz5]

Whether you like her or not is a different matter as that's just subjective opinion, I just pointed out that I don't think Alicent ever chose this life based on what we've seen. I think it made her miserable and she just had to grow accustomed to it.

I think her emotions are more complex than what you're describing as well, and I'm not convinced she is against the idea of a woman ruling in itself. There is certainly part of her that just acting from the social norms of that time and place (which makes her know the value put in a woman's virginity), and jealousy over that Rhaenyra can get away with things hardly any other woman can, and probably annoyance over that Rhaenyra still complains about her situation as she has had a much better life than Alicent this far. However I also think that she is legitimately afraid for her life and the lives of her children. Her rejection of Rhaenyra's proposal is also not likely just old resentment but also a feeling that Rhaenyra is severely insulting her by wanting her child married to an obvious bastard.

I think there is plenty to get into with Alicent if they want, but it remains to be seen whether they will.

Yeah, I don't think Alicent doesn't want Rhaenrya to be the heir just because she's a woman. She never had problems with it when Viserys changed it from Daemon to Rhaenyra. She does have a big issue with Rhaenyra being reckless with her responsibility and priviledge (messing around with her uncle, having kids with her lover, etc.) and getting away with it.

 

[CaptainWagner]

No one forced Allicent to marry Viserys and have his kids. Her and her father's scheming is exactly why this is even an issue at all. Allicent's the embodiment of internalized misogyny, and her own self-hatred is at the heart of her bitterness. At least Rhaenyra owns who she is and doesn't kowtow to anyone.

Allicent's certainly a victim, but that doesn't make her likable. She's old enough now (and certainly once Viserys dies) to have the agency to make better choices, but her own pride keeps her from making rational choices.

I have to admit I'm sort of looking forward to what's in store for her.

I read the book so I know what happens, it's just a question of how the showrunners handle it and whether they can make you feel empathy for Allicent when it does. I really like Olivia Cooke but she's not being given much to work with. She's both angry and gullible, which is not a good combination. Spoiled is definitely an apt description.

These readings honestly baffle me. Like... She obviously had no choice in whether to marry Viserys. She doesn't have a choice even when to sleep with him. The first actual choice of agency she makes is to protect Cole's secret to win his loyalty after losing her only remaining friend at court, her father.

Why is her pride wrong, but not Rhaenyra's? It's fine for Rhaenyra to lie to everyone, to refuse to admit that she's had an affair; yet it's wrong for Alicent to refuse to play along and ignore the obvious?

 

[Elayis]

These readings honestly baffle me. Like... She obviously had no choice in whether to marry Viserys. She doesn't have a choice even when to sleep with him. The first actual choice of agency she makes is to protect Cole's secret to win his loyalty after losing her only remaining friend at court, her father.

Why is her pride wrong, but not Rhaenyra's? It's fine for Rhaenyra to lie to everyone, to refuse to admit that she's had an affair; yet it's wrong for Alicent to refuse to play along and ignore the obvious?

It's just frustrating to watch Allicent misdirect her (mostly) justified rage at her former best friend, when it should be directed at the Westerosi political system of which they are both victims. Her father used her for his own political gain (being a second son), but she somehow thinks him marrying her to the Viserys was for her own benefit.

She just comes off as dumb. Allicent's spent a decade getting cosy with Larys, and is surprised a second son would murder his father & older brother for personal gain, as well as a means of blackmail on her?

I understand how terrible it must be to be a woman in Westeros. Rhaenyra at least isn't actively hurting anyone. Her husband's obviously fine with her having someone else's kids, and she seems affectionate enough as a mother. I think ultimately it comes down to Rhaenyra being more assertive and confident, while Allicent is simultaneously unhappy with her lot but unable to see the ultimate cause of her pain. It's Arya vs. Sansa all over again, in terms of someone fighting the system vs someone who wants to use the system as it is.

I think a lot of my dislike for Allicent is tied into how petty and spiteful Criston is, and their apparent bond over their hatred of Rhaenyra (which is ultimately unjustified). He's just a jilted ex, and that emotion colors all of his scenes in episode 6 (haven't watched episode 7 yet). He slept with Rhaenyra once, a decade ago. He needs to move on.