BvS The Batsuit Thread - - - Part 19

[Cyclonus]

As long as Snyder has Batman moving and fighting like this or better-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA0SarFs60w





Then I will be OK.

 

[marcvader]

Good god now I remember why I rarely came over here and posted. Unsubscribing.

 

[Marvin]

As long as Snyder has Batman moving and fighting like this or better-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA0SarFs60w

Then I will be OK.

Can't see Snyder disappointing people in that department. Let alone with Batman. Not sure I'd be able to recover.
Just hoping for some out of costume bruce wayne stuff as well.

 

[Mr. Finger]

It's a non-issue because it doesn't affect the movie one bit. Most people don't look like the Vitruvian Man either. Fans overreact like tabloids nitpicking at things like thighs looking fat.

Well, to be honest.. My comment about Ben's head.. Did contain some sarcasm.
But to be honest, there are things that the head size does effect..GREATLY..

I have been involved with a few of these types of projects.. Yes.. Not just "fanboy" critiquing going on here..

When you work on such things, especially characters that wear something over their head? The size matters a lot actually.. As I wasn't calling him fat or anything like that, nor pointing out some sort of flaw.

It comes to visual anatomy, and having the proportions work towards the final vision. A character like Batman, considering the image and forms needed to create a cowl.. You have to add a certain amount of bulk to it in order to get the "look" that you are after. Take that pic of Ben.. Print it out.. Sketch a cowl over his head.. Then look at what it does to the size and proportions of his body's anatomy?
This brings me to the suit, and how good of a job that these guys did. No doubt that they had to pad the heck out of that suit just to make up for this issue alone? If this was a big sculpted rubber suit? There is no way that Ben would be able to move in it. Even making a muscle suit, and wrapping fabric around it, mobility, heat exhotherming from the body, and weight have to be considered as well. This must have been no easy task with what we are seeing..

I bet if you spoke to the guys behind this suit? They would tell you that dealing with the head size was a hurdle in order to arrive at the look that they achieved in the end?

Fan-boy knit -picking? Not so much..
Just a statement coming from a guy that knows a few things about creating suits like what you are seeing.
Also, I bet that this effects the fit of the cowl when it comes to the stuntmen?
A thought that most do not think about.
This is not Ironman, nor Spider-Man.. Both are easier to deal with because the head is completely covered.. As long as the secondary stunt guys have a head that isn't bigger than the original actors. These Bat-cowls present different obstacles due to the way it fits on the face, and part of the face being exposed.
Change it to fit another guy? And it may look completely different.. Huge gaps where the cowl was suppose to make contact with the cheeks and chin. Enter the CGI guys..

My thoughts were coming from the mind of someone that spends time with these obstacles... And I think that these are issues that no one thinks about.. Most just like to judge the final look. These cowls that are all one piece are very difficult to do, and even the team on "TDK" and "TDKR" had to go another way and separate their work in to two pieces.

I apologize for sounding like a fan-boy to some of you..
But I get more respect for the guys that built this suit for Michael Wilkinson by thinking about these things myself... Another thing that gets looked over quite a bit. Imagine the artwork coming in, and Michael and Zack saying.. "this is what I want to see!" And Ben's head was already proportionately bigger than the artwork by design? Which probably happened... And happens a lot..
Not only is this suit a magnificent interpretation artistically, but technically? They have done a fantastic job in dealing with the obstacles that the normal "fan-boys" no not to look for.

Carry on... Back to the "belt" and "tactical" chats...

 

[LamboMan]

Hey guys, I know this is a Batsuit thread but this just came out, a better look at the prototype of the Batmobile.

Link from here >> http://instagram.com/p/oAe0Dyw2Y8/#

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Like a less ugly Tumbler. I like it.

 

[747]

All movies involving hand to hand combat should use The Raid series as a tutorial on how to do proper kinetic action that looks great on screen.

The hand-to-hand combat in The Raid is amazing. But I also like to think there is room for more than one style or approach.

With thay said, yes, using The Raid's style as a kind of template for Bat's fighting would be one great way to go no doubt, maybe with some added Snyder flair on top.

 

[LamboMan]

The completed version of the batmobile will definitely have a lot more to it, I hope.

 

[craigaat]

Butch:"Haha you like comic books"
Nerd: "So?? You do too. You saw all the Marvel movies, Man of Steel and the Nolan bat films."
Butch:"oh"

You do know comics and movies aren't the same thing?

 

[Young Superman]

I got to admit I was not a fan of it a first, but the new Bat-Suit chest logo is growing on me.

 

[craigaat]

The big logo and short ears have always been my favourite.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Like a less ugly Tumbler. I like it.

Much less. It actually looks like a car.

 

[Par Avion]

Never said two words about anything diminishing the character in anyway. From the start I've been talking about improvements. You seem to be of the mind that liking one thing over another means the latter suffers or a franchise is trashed as you say.

No, putting down an element of the character that has tradiontally been a part of their aesthetic for 75 and that is no more or less "realistic" or "tactically advantageous" in a comic book world, in favour of building up a new one, is what I take exception with. Seems you misunderstood when I explained that in my last post.

When cap(and maybe batman) fight better, I simply like it more, doesn't mean I don't love the 89 cap film though, it's called an improvement. Secondly, Metaphor? We have different definitions of the word, clearly. In short, he wears his for the same reason the punisher does, to strike fear in the…I also said its a banner fla...never mind. Seeing as I can't convince you with my answer to your question(fair enough) how’s about we try this another way. You tell me how the black insignia is disadvantageous! You know like how a yellow/gold belt is disadvantageous which is pretty much the point of discussion as it was initiated. How does the logo on his chest hurt his ability to do his job?

Yes, you justified the black bat symbol as being "a symbol of hope", etc. Call it a visual metophor or thematic symbolism or whatever you want. That's all theoretical though (ditto for the outline of a bat "striking fear in the hearts of" etc...) It just doesn't actually have any practical application-rooted in reality- and that IS what you're on about here. In short, the black bat insignia is neither advantageous nor disadvantageous, in the same way that the yellow/bronze/gold belt isn't disadvantageous (Remember trying to put the onus on me to prove it was?)- and if it were indeed disdvantageous, the onus is on your to prove it with any example from the 75 years of the character's existence.

'The most unrealistic thing about batman is.....' Tell me where I or anyone said it was 'the most' anything. That would be getting into Strawman territory.
It was pointed out that changing the colour from one lighter to dark(never said black btw) was an improvement. Batman finally wearing combat tracks on his boots would be 'an improvement' in this same regard. Why he would have the same boot bottoms as superman is a step in the wrong direction in service to an aesthetic. Changing his belt from 'yellow/gold'(for the last time this was the issue that was raised leading you to dive in) to something darker is an 'improvement' in this same regard. That's the argument, your counter seems to be, that there is no improvement cause it's all fantasy...

It's implied in your belief that the most "tacticaly disadvantageous" element of his costume being his belt (ie. the element that makes the character less believable- believability rooted in "realism" or judged on the basis of the "real world" in which we live). No strawman, but it's always fun to try to pull that one out.

What does it matter what the supposed "inception" was and what was reverse engineered, all of a sudden stemming from "inception" is the mark of ultimate quality/achievement/service to premise? I personally don't think so.
That's like saying the premise of Captain America, his design, tone was all at it's best during it's 1940's 'inception'. That's like saying the Bond premise/execution hasn't been improve with this recent set of films but rather the inception is the true measure...Ironman is another great example of this particular point. The premise was a man builds a contemporary piece of armor, him not having an HUD but rather eye holes, having metal that bends around his joints with joints of it’s own all things that have been IMPROVED and worth celebrating in service to original premise regardless of what the ‘inception’ was, again that’s what happening here nothing more. If you want to argue that Ironman was always meant to be non practical, I guess that’s proving to be an interesting type of discussion but I’d rather just focus on the issue of celebrating improvement without being called a hypocrite. Writers came along and improve or ‘dis-improve’ things. Call it a desperate need for whatever you want but I personally don't find any of it all that ridiculous.
Batman is a human character that fights crime, some creator comes alone and imbues the mythology with various levels of martial arts disciplines and this results in; a desperate need to validate...I suppose that's one way to look at it. To each his own.

Okay. Apparently my statement on artist/creative decision taking precedence over actual logistical concern or "real world" application went over your head.

Yes, Batman is a human character that hights crime- in a form fitting bat-themed costume with a long billowing cape, who drive around a heavily populated urban area in a bat themed car/motorcycle/plane. He's a superhero that fights supervillains that include a humanoid, shape-shifting pile of clay, a mutant man-bat, a humanoid crocodile, a maniacal clown, etc... It's funny the way you leave out any/all elements of the character that aren't logsitcal, practical or realistic when it serves you...ah but yes, a gold belt is simply ludircous!

And the reverse engineering comment was made to highlight the absurdity of adults desperately trying to make sense and rationalize every bit of a fantasy world.

You asked me to find an example of his belt giving him a way. I would try if I thought the fiction was intended to undermine it's aesthetic license. However it actually works to serve it. Which is probably why Robin has never been shot in the head multiple times yet we can both agree that he probably would be and a simple domino mask is mostly impractical(regardless of what the 'inception' wanted). Ergo, I think I'll pass on that.

I thought so. Are you telling me that a character like Robin has endured for 60+ years in nearly every form of media without elements of his costume having a logistical "practical application"? Ya don't say!

When I have some reason provided within the fantastical universe that Batman inhabits, that his yellow belt is somehow a logisitcal flaw in his design, then I cannot accept that it's any more or less practical/disadvantageous than a black one.

Lastly, and if nothing else, I would like to make the point as clear as possible[/B] that no one(I've seen) is arguing that the modern bat suit is exquisite in it's attainment of real world practicality. It's about trying/striving to a point vs not. Moreover, it's about the opinion to celebrate the move from impractical aesthetic to that of a practical direction in whatever capacity rings true to said individual. For example:
This is what one would call a practical/tactical body suit for combat situation(region specific).

We know it's practical/tactical because it's the attire worn by some of our various nations highest martial officers out in the field of combat. Anyone that says it's simply B.S. aesthetics due to all the various flaws they can point out is focusing on the wrong things. Again, practical/tactical direction. Why aren’t their faces painted green, why aren’t they wearing bullet proof polarized visors Talk all you want about necks, hands and handlebar staches exposed, it doesn't change the fact that this direction is that of a tactical attire that no doubt could be more tactical. They aren’t dressed like The Ultimate Warrior, or rather Tarzan. This is the situation that faces batman in the current discussion. You are pointing out various flaws in practicality(as you see them) and then asserting that because you can find them, it's all moot and any celebration of practical improvement is mostly hypocritical. Or rather that fans have no right to celebrate an improvement cause they are fine with everything else.

Your conceit concerning "practical improvement" is rooted in reality (last I checked, Batman is a fictional character that inhabits a fantastical universe- and therefore does not adhere to the same strictures that we do).

And no, you've misunderstood again. I see nothing wrong with celebrating practicality ("improvement" is specious)- as long as one understands that these characters may have "practical" uses applied to their appearance, but have no actual bearing on "practicality" in the real world.

"Well look at their faces, all that bright skin is still exposed, what good is that, what purpose does that serve, I see bits of white, where is the armor..."
Without me explaining why those things might still be exposed, I can basically assert that there has been an improvement in practicality worth noting and celebrating where before it very much was not only impractical to the purpose but also very much needlessly compromising. Perhaps there is still room for more improvement. But again, you running off the list of things on these (real) seals that is still in need of improvement...is getting us no where fast, in the face of the fact that a fan celebrated what he deemed an improvement. The air tanks used to be yellow in the former picture and in the latter there is something more tactical. Batman still wears a supposedly useless cape and still has his mouth exposed and still has a his insignia on his chest...so why is anyone claiming the belt change is an improvement? Cause it is. Maybe next, they will improve that other stuff and more fans can start celebrating, who knows. Some people seemed to appreciate the improvement in practicality in the car/bike, perhaps the premise wasn’t served right in B&R with the opened top where aesthetic was placed first, perhaps even in it’s inception it wasn’t at it's 'best' but was rather a product of what was contemporary but the armored car was always supposed to be just that, in premise. Ergo improvements are easily praised(1960-2005).

Getting caught up in "reality" again when we're talking about a fictional superheo that dresses up like a bat and fights a guy made of living clay. It seems we're going around in circles here. Please see my previous posts -which you seem to have ignored- on creative/artistic aesthetic taking precedence over "reality" or "practicality".

Internal logic and consistency are important, and some creative choices are more egregious than others (though I'd argue that in the world established, the B&R batmobile wasn't ridiculous). No matter the take on the character, I hope there is a consistency in aesthetic over realism or practicality- otherwise it's goodbye bat-emblem, billowing cape and belt- and hello generic navy seal costume. But it seems to me that if a bronze belt on the character strains your credulity and makes you want to call for "practical imporvement", out of all the other outlandish and fantastical elements of the character and the universe he inhabits, then I'm not sure what to say.

You want to talk about how nolans belt was dark bronze, brown.. the actual colour and reflectivity of said belt, are probably another debate but I wouldn't call it bronze or even brown, lighting not withstanding. just... saying.
I don't really agree but that's another issue/matter.

Thanks for reading.

Oh, are we going to split hairs and play the pedantic game?

Please remind me of that scene from TDK when Batman is caught because of the reflectivity of his belt. I mean, it must have happened for you to have some basis for your complaint concerning "improvement".

 

[The Man of HEEL]

^what he said*

*idk I didn't read it all tbh

 

[John-An]

As long as Snyder has Batman moving and fighting like this or better-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA0SarFs60w





Then I will be OK.

IMO I think this Batman will be more fast and expert in combat that we saw in that sweet fight scene. I'm thinking batarangs, 10 mans vs bats in one shot.

Much less. It actually looks like a car.

And by looking at this pic when that wasn't finished, It obviously looks more improved, slimmer and detailed when we see the Snyder's two pics.

 

[John-An]

When I first saw the batsuit I was so shocked I couldn't think with clearity.

I take a 2 days break and then when I recovered from that GREAT PIC!!! I just!!!

and even now when I see the pics with different colors and with Superman manips I'm..

And to know that is not the only suit I'm gonna see. We need to see also Supes and WW and I'm..

The only thing I expect to see is a Batman taking down 10 guys in a single round, a batman fast and expert in combat. and of course a batman throwing a batarang in slo-mo then fast and then slow-mo

Being criticial of the suit I'm giving my points of this.
The ears: we haven't seen it correctly but from what we saw I think they are Jim lee/Miller combination. and that's awesome.

I love how they improved the batsymbol making the middle wing larger.

The only thing I'm not sure is about the color of the symbol, I don't know if its gonna be the same as the body or black or a little lighter than the cowl. I need to see it in full color to judge that.

With all those traits we have a batsuit far different from the previous, thing that I really appreciate but at the same time he looks like a comic-book adaption which is the best thing they have done. I mean the same thing as the Superman suit, modern but respecting the traits of the character.

Then I'm not sure if he has a light armor under the suit (which I will freak out if I see that) or a pretty resistent but at the same time allowing Bats to move fast.

Black-Grey suit, pretty badass batman and of course we have seen for the first time the Batman on liveaction adapted from the comics.

Then this is for you. found it on the net (deviantart) which is pretty awesome..

 

[JOE]

The merchandise for this movie... Just wow, they're going to make a killing. Just think of all the variations of action figures.

 

[John-An]

The Batsuit is definitely the best one of the past decade (in live-action at least), the Batmobile looks great too! I already have alot of faith in the Snyder/Batman duo. Superman on the other hand...

each one each taste. But first I must point out some things.
Only seeing that you loved Smallville's Superman well... is your opinion but... well...
Then I must think you are in love with previous incarnations where Superman was the perfect and omnipresent god who never was touched and he does everything at the same time, perfect and nothing bad can happen, when someone try to make a character relatable making him feeling, having a real threat, opponent on the movie that he can't do all of the things, but he then chooses to put humans over the rest and over his life definetely. I must respect your cup of tea but I must say that if you want to see that type of hero, that just in this century and era he won't fit, Well you have 4 movies to see and worship(I must point out that I love STM and SII but I don't get some people's "desires"). We are getting a grounded superman and I'm thankfull of that, they make the character even more interesting that he obviously was.
Well I totally respect your point of view, but why discussing this in the batsuit thread? why? Your post was with other intentions? Let's focus on the BATSUIT please.

Second you try to put in black the I believe in and I don't believe... on your signature which IMO is looking for attention.

Have a nice day.

 

[John-An]

I love TASM2 suit, but I never really noticed the logo placement until you mentioned it. Still, I like it though. That and the Raimi suit is perfect.

The MOS suit though...I just feel like they need someone that's a Superman fan first and foremost working on these things. I half feel like Snyder only took MOS cuz Nolan talked him into it, not because he genuinely digs the character. He likes Batman though, we know that (and so do I), but I feel like they're missing it with Superman.

Don't focus your hate on those aspects cause you are being so notorious.
And I must say that you see every opportunity to nitpick in the same stuff all the time.
First Snyder is a COMIC BOOK fan, and the love for the comics make one great adaption of the character on the source material that are THE COMICS no the DONNER MOVIES So why doing a character that you don't like when we see that Snyder loves Superman when you see him talking about him.. it's just
I mean really? just because he doesn't have trunks? You made my day. Well I guess if you liked SR I know which are more or less your desires and hopes for the character.

In every thing you don't like you must show your hate, the most recent thing you did it with Gadot's casting in a so nonsensical way. So..
I must remember you that this THE BATSUIT thread. lets discuss about the BATSUIT

 

[Marvin]

Then this is for you. found it on the net (deviantart) which is pretty awesome..

This one is pretty awesome indeed.

 

[Tra-El]

The merchandise for this movie... Just wow, they're going to make a killing. Just think of all the variations of action figures.

 

[TheBat812]

Par avion, you know they've had a black belt in the comics before right? I understand wanting the yellow belt as personal preference, but I don't get being so anti anything else.

Is it really just for the sake of keeping it the same? Because beyond the argument of tradition, I don't see any good reason to keep it yellow.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

lol. wouldn't it be hilarious if it's the suit is grey and dark blue with the big black bat as kevin smith has said? it'd almost be like when alot of people though that mos suit had trunks when it was first revealed.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

When I first saw the batsuit I was so shocked I couldn't think with clearity.

those two suits together look too much of the same costume...why..no one seems to care that they look so similar when they are clearly not from the same world. yeah colors wil make a difference ...i know (bla bla) but it should also be different in terms of materials and style.

 

[Dispatch Ninja]

those two suits together look too much of the same costume...why..no one seems to care that they look so similar when they are clearly not from the same world. yeah colors wil make a difference ...i know (bla bla) but also in terms of materials and style....it should be a bit more different than supes suit.

I'm not seeing it.