The Amazing Spider-Man The case against Andrew Garfield as Peter Parker

What I got from the comics and cartoons was that Peter Parker was sharp witted and somewhat lively.

Parker was mostly nerdy in a witty, charming way rather than dorky in a bewildered, goofy way.

I'd rather have a head-strong Peter Parker who is clever and skateboards than a dopey mouth breather who dresses like Rick Santorum and rides a tiny moped. The former is just as comic-book accurate depending on which comics you reference.
 
The point you folks seem to be missing is that there's a lot of silly flip-flopping going on with the more ardent fans of this franchise.

Some of you beat your chests about how awesome Garfield's Peter is and how much more faithful he is to the comics than those war criminals Raimi & Maguire, but the second someone posits a compelling argument to the contrary...and I won't even say truthful, disproving, or whatever, just a carefully reasoned, well thought out argument, immediately you guys default to the defense "Oh, well actually, this Peter is accurate to the Ultimate line of comics, so that doesn't count".

Not only is that a completely ridiculous way to both dismiss and discredit someone, but it shows a staggering degree of disrespect and irreverence towards the traditional 616 comics, which is ultimately what your precious Ultimate Peter Parker was based upon in the first place. Funny how that works out, but I'm sorry folks, you can't have it both ways. That some of you would have the audacity to scream comic accuracy as a pro over the previous franchise is laughable when just one look at that costume says otherwise.

Personally, I don't see why there is so much bickering (and dishonesty, while we're at it) over that nonsense. Apparently none of us can seem to agree which franchise is more accurate than the other, but I'd like to think that we can at least agree that both franchises kept several things, while changing others. Welcome to film-making in the 21st century; comic book accuracy is the least of the problems for either adaptation.

He is in no way a fifteen year old.

The point is Utimate is the Marvel version of Elsewords.The Lee/Ditko era is always going to be the default version to go to,because it's A) The Original. B) Better

Well said all :up:
 
Is there any pro-Maguire argument you didn't like?
 
Can't we just appreciate the positives in both iterations of the movie-based character of Peter Parker?
 
I's say Garfield is much closer to every non-Ditko version and those versions deserve a chance in the limelight. What about people who became Spidey fans during the 70's, 80's, 90's, and 2000's? Not all of us want the complete "dweeb with no social skill" Peter Parker over and over and over.

Except that TASM is an origin story, and should be based on the original comics. If they wanted to show a different Peter based on later stories, they shouldn't have wasted their time on Peter's origin story in this film, and just have him start off as Spider-Man, maybe with flashbacks to Ben's death.

Actually considering we got an origin story 10 years ago, making another one was just wasting screen time, since the 2002 film portrayed Spidey's origin almost perfectly. But giving him a different personality than the 60s/70s version is just another reason.

Can't we just appreciate the positives in both iterations of the movie-based character of Peter Parker?

Sure we can. A lot of people do. But a lot of other people don't because they have different opinions. And that's okay.
 
The point you folks seem to be missing is that there's a lot of silly flip-flopping going on with the more ardent fans of this franchise.

Some of you beat your chests about how awesome Garfield's Peter is and how much more faithful he is to the comics than those war criminals Raimi & Maguire, but the second someone posits a compelling argument to the contrary...and I won't even say truthful, disproving, or whatever, just a carefully reasoned, well thought out argument, immediately you guys default to the defense "Oh, well actually, this Peter is accurate to the Ultimate line of comics, so that doesn't count".

Not only is that a completely ridiculous way to both dismiss and discredit someone, but it shows a staggering degree of disrespect and irreverence towards the traditional 616 comics, which is ultimately what your precious Ultimate Peter Parker was based upon in the first place. Funny how that works out, but I'm sorry folks, you can't have it both ways. That some of you would have the audacity to scream comic accuracy as a pro over the previous franchise is laughable when just one look at that costume says otherwise.

Personally, I don't see why there is so much bickering (and dishonesty, while we're at it) over that nonsense. Apparently none of us can seem to agree which franchise is more accurate than the other, but I'd like to think that we can at least agree that both franchises kept several things, while changing others. Welcome to film-making in the 21st century; comic book accuracy is the least of the problems for either adaptation.
Hold up, where in my post did I say that "Oh, well actually, this Peter is accurate to the Ultimate line of comics, so that doesn't count" like you claimed.

I just asked you : how is Andrew's portrayal of Peter Parker not faithful to the Ultimate Spider-Man comics interpretation of Peter/Spidey(or the original Stan Lee/Steve Ditko/John Romita era of High School-College era Peter Parker for that matter), why I disagreed with the OP, what comics Mark used as an influence for his movies, how I feel AG Peter is similar and different to Ultimate Spidey alone(I could use any other Peter and honestly the points might still stand) and you basically deflected my question by accusing other posters of just using Ultimate Spider-Man comics in order to prove why people feel AG is more faithful than Tobey. When I talk about Andrew Garfield Spider-Man and his accuracy/faithfulness to Peter Parker/Spider-Man's character in the comics, I don't try to use just the early Stan Lee/Steve Ditko/John Romita sr. Spider-Man run or the Brian Michael Bendis Ultimate Spider-Man comics as example in order to prove a point. I try to use every Spider-Man comic I read or can get pictures of or able to write down the dialogue that shares to either Raimi or Mark Webb Amazing Spider-Man movies that use teenage/High School era/Rookie Spider-Man(Sean McKeever Spider-Man loves Mary Jane#6 and 7, Ultimate Mary Jane novel, etc). Because there have been 50 years worth of retellings of Spider-Man stories, including different modernized retelling of Spider-Man origins and his time as a teenager in various different ways including John Byrne Chapter One,Amazing Fantasy #16–18 (Dec. 1995 - March 1996), Marvel Age/Adventures Spider-Man, Stan Lee and Peter David Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man:With Great Power, Mythos Spider-Man, Spider-Man season one, Sean McKeever Mary Jane/Mary Jane:Homecoming/Spider-Man loves Mary Jane, Dan Slott Year One: Learning To Crawl, Ultimate Mary Jane novels, Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, and one of the most popular and longest running re-imagining of teenage Peter's life: Brian Michael Bendis Ultimate Spider-Man.


Even though I admittedly do use Sam Raimi films in my comparison, and I do it when also compare to the comics, but I try my best not to criticizing one over another,despite my admitted bias. Don't get me wrong I do like the Raimi trilogy and they are good movies(even the third one in it's own way), But I prefer TASM over Spider-Man 1 for my reasons and I try to compare not just one interpretation of events that happened in the two movie, but similar occurrences in any comics I find as well(such as what happened between Peter and Ben before Ben got shot and murdered: Ultimate Spider-Man#1-4 Peter got into a few arguments with Uncle Ben and Aunt May before Uncle Ben's death and in Spider-Man the movie Tobey said Uncle Ben should stop pretending to be his dad before he left off to try while Andrew Garfield Peter and Uncle Ben argument is basically an almost exact word for word argument from Ultimate Spider-Man#4 before Peter ran off, Paul Jenkins Peter Parker Spider-Man v2 #33 that takes place 3 days before Uncle Ben died, Chapter One where the burglar saw Spidey leaving his house and assumed he was casing it as well while JMS said Aunt May and Uncle Ben got into a meaningless argument that led Uncle Ben to take a walk where he got killed). In fact this thread got me inspired to make a thread to show how I think AG/Webb Peter is a faithful adaption to comics Peter in a lot of ways.

First of all, I think Andrew Peter is faithful to a lot of incarnations of teenage Peter Parker(in more ways than just creating web shooters and telling jokes). My post was not intended to discredit anyone or accuse anyone, but general curiosity of how you view Andrew.I agree it's not totally faithful to the Spider-Man mythos,both 616 and/or Ultimate and neither was any of the other Spider-Man cartoon or movie.I'm not denying people do just say "it's ultimate Spidey so it's okay"(which isn't a good argument either) but at the same time I have seen fans of the Raimi said the Ultimate comics don't count despite it being a fairly popular and well known modernized streamlined re-imagining of the Spider-Man universe and his origin for a more general audience/new readers and there are similarities to the Ultimate comics which if we're honest the Raimi films isn't 100% faithful to the sixties-seventies era Spider-Man comics(which were Sam's main influence in crafting his Spider-Man films)

I agree that's it's messed up talking trash about one work of Spider-Man in order to defend another(movie or comics) and Ultimate Peter was largely inspired by the 616 comics Peter and it is disrespectful to any version(especially the classic Spider-Man than Stan Lee and Steve Ditko crafted) but honestly TASM Peter did some stuff and acted in a way that could be see as extremely similar to 616 and Ultimate, among other versions of teenage Peter Parker written in the comics.

I feel like both movies are accurate to the comics in different ways but not totally faithful to the comics(sort of like how Spectacular Spider-Man cartoons and the 90s Fox Kids cartoon had a lot of similarities but extremely different from the original Spider-Man comics itself as Spider-Man adaptions which is also how I feel about the Sam Raimi and Mark Webb Spidey movies)
 
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Except that TASM is an origin story, and should be based on the original comics. If they wanted to show a different Peter based on later stories, they shouldn't have wasted their time on Peter's origin story in this film, and just have him start off as Spider-Man, maybe with flashbacks to Ben's death.

Actually considering we got an origin story 10 years ago, making another one was just wasting screen time, since the 2002 film portrayed Spidey's origin almost perfectly. But giving him a different personality than the 60s/70s version is just another reason.



Sure we can. A lot of people do. But a lot of other people don't because they have different opinions. And that's okay.

Where does it say that the original comics should be the only inspiration to a comic book movie adaption or introducing the origin/universe to a new audience? No comic book movie is 100% faithful to the original comics no matter what some fans wish it to be. It's a specific cast and crew's interpretation of a comic book character and his universe, especially one with many years with different writers, artists, etc working on it like the following examples:

Avengers/MCU heroes(Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, etc) is a combination of the Ultimates and Avengers(both classic and modern) comics with a few twists to keep it interesting and fresh

1978 Superman, Man of Steel, Batman Begins and 89 Batman weren't 100% faithful to any of the Superman mythos

no X-Men movie was totally faithful to the comics

Tim Story Fantastic Four movie had classic and Ultimate elements to their movies

Ed Norton Incredible Hulk was in a sense can be seen as an origin film but it was more like the Incredible Hulk TV Show with some Ultimate and 616 elements

If TASM wasn't faithful to the comics, Sam Raimi Spider-Man was not exactly faithful to the original Spider-Man comics minus following plot points and recreating a few comics panels either(Peter and Mary Jane knew each other since they were kids and live in the same neighborhood, Peter only becoming a wrestler to win MJ's love, Dr.Connors being a physics professor, Peter shoots organic web, Peter meeting Gwen after he met MJ, Eddie Brock Jr's name and build Harry being Peter's high school friend, Green Goblin being the first super villain Spidey said instead of Vulture or Chameleon or Doc Ock, Doc Ock being connected to Oscorp, etc). It wasn't more or less faithful than the Amazing Spider-Man.

even the most faithful comic book adaption movie(Baron 1990 TMNT movie or 4Kids TMNT cartoon) wasn't exactly similar to the original comics or cartoons.

The Amazing Spider-man I thought it made sense to do a new origin because it doesn't creating a new universe and had to introduced their interpretations of their character and their Spider-Man universe which is almost radically different from the Spider-Man universe Sam introduced in almost every way and the Incredible Hulk and Punisher did what you suggested and had some fans as well as people who watched the movie confused if it was a sequel to the previous movies so if that could happened for that movie, the very same thing could have happened if they did that Spider-Man movie.

Honestly except for a few plot points and comic storylines I don't think Tobey Maguire/Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie was any more or less faithful to the Spider-Man comics than Andrew/Mark Webb's movie was honestly.

He is in no way a fifteen year old.

That may be true but there are more similarities to Ultimate Spider-Man(as well as to other Spider-Man comics) than differences.

For example, Oscorp in the Webb films feels like a combination of four important companies with evil rich bosses connected to Spider-Man(well to be more specific Ultimate Spider-Man: Roxxon, Oscorp, Hammer Industries and Trask Industries) but there's not many other fictional successful Marvel Companies that has ties to the Spider-Man universe that Marvel can use except for Tricorp or Horizon.(looking mainly at Ultimate) and we're talking about Spider-Man villains who are animal themed and related to science in one way or another, it's kind of made sense that some writers did it(at least it's not like how John Byrne or JMS handled it in their respective Spider-Man comics):

Kingpin - IDK if he's owned by Marvel or Fox studios by now but I know Sony doesn't have any rights in using him for the moment. In this show, he is the most recurring villain. This Kingpin is fairly close to the comics version, but he is often occupied with manipulating superpowered characters to do his bidding. He's the mastermind behind the creation of the Spider-Slayers and is responsible for the creation of the Insidious Six, the animated equivalent of the Sinister Six and also was part of the creation Black Cat and the Spot among other supervillains.

S.H.I.E.L.D.- basically S.H.I.E.L.D. and to a lesser extent Stark Industries and the super soldier serum(for more genetic experimental characters like Cap, Hulk,Red Skull, Abomination etc and in the Ultimate Marvel universe ties a lot of superheroes and supervillains origins together including Electro, Green Goblin,Spider-Man,Doc Ock, Sandman, etc) in the MCU is what Oscorp is in the Mark Webb Spider-Man movies and connecting different comic elements together to make a more cohesive universe and same goes for recent cartoons, and comics Ultimate or otherwise but Marvel Studios own that.

Oscorp - in most recent comics and media Oscorp has some pull in one way or another, connection to a lot of Spider-Man characters and story elements and what goes on in Spidey's life. The 2 of the most famous Spider-Man villains I see the most that are usually connected to Oscorp and Norman Osborn in modern media in one way or another is Otto Octavius/Doctor Octopus(in in the 1990s Spider-Man TV series, Otto Octavius was Peter Parker's science teacher at science camp when the youth was 10 years old and Otto was working for the Hardy Foundation when he became desperate to finish his experiment, Ultimate Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon has Otto work for Oscorp, Ultimate Spider-Man comics had Octavius work for Oscorp and a part of the accident that created Spider-Man, Green and Hobgoblin and Doctor Octopus, and Spider-Man 2 had Doc Ock funded by Oscorp) and Adrian Toomes/Vulture(Spider-Man: Noir where he was taken by mob boss Norman Osborn (The Goblin) to become one of his hitmen, Ultimate Vulture worked along with Norman Osborn's Sinister Six and both 90s Fox cartoon and Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon wanted revenge on Norman for rejecting his work). Ultimate Spider-Man comics had tied it in to the origins of 4 superhumans and Nick Fury in trying to recreate Captain America and even was able to create mini bunkers and spy on Spider-Man/Peter's life, Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon had Norman Osborn/Oscorp tied to multiple characters in different way(Rhino, Big Man, Shocker by tipping him off to Tricorp Shocker suit, Chameleon, Sandman, Molten Man,Doc Ock, Vulture, Doctor Connors by having some pull on bringing Peter and Miles Warren into his lab, Mac Gargan,Morris Bench, Miles Warren who Norman was able to get to join Dr. Curt Connors' team at the Empire State University lab., etc) on the show in one way or another(you can argue the TSSM cartoon has some influence on Mark Webb movie as well), the MTV Cartoon had Oscorp be the reason Dr.Connors lost his arm and he holds a grudge against Oscorp(which also had similarities and also could be also inspiration for Webb Spider-Man film and Brian Michael Bendis has some influence on both movies), Fox Kids 90s animated series Oscorp was constantly under the influence of the Kingpin to create weapons for him and was tied to the Smythe family, Hobgoblin and the two Green Goblins and bought Adrian Toomes’s company and it's board members included Anastasia Hardy, Wilson Fisk, J. Jonah Jameson. and that's not even bringing up 616 or the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon. Raimi films had Oscorp/the Osborns in one way or another be connected to three out of the five supervillains in the movie from the creation of the Goblins and the funding of Doc Ock's work. Norman and Oscorp in recent comics always has some times in some ways to Spider-Man villains or something that happens in Spidey's life(like Flash was driving drunk in an Oscorp truck with give him brain damage). It's the most well known business connected to the Spider-Man mythos and one of Spider-Man's biggest and well known villain and has been connected to other Spidey baddies so it did made a lot of sense

Hammer Industries- Ultimate Spider-Man wrote it as Hammer Industries intentionally created both Electro(Sold it to Kingpin) and Sandman and hired Doc Ock as a corporate spy who came for revenge, but Marvel Studios owns the rights to use that company in their films especially since it's more connected to Iron Man for the most part

Roxxon -Responsible for being connected to a lot of the supervillains that Spider-Man faced in the Ultimate comics, he is targeted by a former employee who took the identity of the Tinkerer. Donald Roxxon hires Silver Sable to track down Spider-Man, as he believes the hero knew who was responsible. He also wants to know why Spider-Man seemed to be looking out for Roxxon (Spider-Man had actually not been but a series of coincidences led to the appearance otherwise). Silver Sable captures Spider-Man and brings him to Roxxon, who unmasks and interrogates him. Spider-Man escapes Roxxon and ends up saving him from the Vulture. Among those who attacked Roxxon are Killer Shrike, Omega Red, Vulture, and The Spot with the former three being hired by Tinkerer and the latter one being created in an accident at Roxxon. It is also revealed that Herman Schultz was also a former employee of Roxxon Corporation, whom Roxxon got to design weapons before terminating his employment at the company, leading him to a life of crime. Schultz also stated that even if Spider-Man was able to bring down Roxxon, "two more would grow in its place" (which is similar to the motto of the fictional terrorist organization HYDRA). There is a Roxxon Brain Trust consisting of Doctor Octopus, Dr. Arnim Zola III, Dr. Layla Miller, Misty Knight, Dr. Samuel Sterns, and Dr. Nathaniel Essex and has secretly assembles several teens(like Cloak and Dagger,Spider-Woman, etc) to use as guinea pigs in their experiments to create super-soldiers (such as Bombshell and Cloak & Dagger) as well as restoring the Venom suit. For all intents and purposes, it can be compared and seen as the most similar to the Webb interpretation of Oscorp but again Marvel studios owns the rights to use Roxxon in their movies/TV shows.

Trask Industries - connection to Peter and Eddie's dad as well as Adrian Toomes and the Ultimate Spider-Man video game R.H.I.N.O., Beetle and other events but Fox/X-Men owns those rights and using that and it's another company extremely similar to Webb Oscorp


The point is Utimate is the Marvel version of Elsewords.The Lee/Ditko era is always going to be the default version to go to,because it's A) The Original. B) Better

While you may not like the Ultimate Marvel it has introduced ideas that works for adaptions for a more general audience(cartoons like Spectacular Spider-Man or Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heroes, movies like Iron Man or Avengers) among other cartoons and movies as well.

Ultimate Marvel's original intent was to streamline and modernized the original Marvel stories in order to make it more access the then 38 years of multiple storylines, some writers (such as Mark Millar) had said in one interview
Mark Millar Shares His Thoughts On THE ULTIMATES Influence On MARVEL'S THE AVENGERS

The Ultimates was the book I wanted to write when I started at Marvel eleven years ago, but the Avengers characters were regarded by management as less commercial than the X-Men and so they offered me Ultimate X-Men instead. The idea was to re-invent their characters for a modern audience and X-Men launched at number one so they trusted me with the Avengers revamp. Even so, they still tried to talk me into a Wolverine book instead as Cap, Thor, Iron Man and Hulk were all, in the company’s eyes, a little less cool."

"But I always loved them and used what capital I had at the company to push this through and Editor In Chief Joe Quesada was very supportive of me. I told him I wanted Bryan Hitch on art, even though Bryan had just signed with another company, and they moved Heaven and Earth to get him on the project. We really just took all the elements that made The Avengers hard for a mainstream audience to accept and streamlined all the characters into a single book, bringing them under the command of Nick Fury to pull the whole thing together. I’d wanted more ethnically diverse characters in the line and made Nick Fury black, but it was Bryan who came up with the genius idea of Samuel L Jackson to be the face of the character’s reinvention."

"Our first storyline was basically Independence Day with superheroes and we took the Chitauri aliens from the David Icke books and made them the bad guys, Loki being the the villain from our second book. Kevin Fiege (who runs Marvel Studios) was a big fan of the books and told us it made him realise an Avengers movie could actually be a lot simpler than they’d thought and so they used book one and the ending to book two as the template for the movie, which is enormously flattering. People have suggested we should feel ripped off, but we don’t own these characters. All we did was give them a lick of paint and come up with a story and the visuals. These are Marvel-owned characters and I have my own little empire with Millarworld so I’m genuinely just pleased to see all this on the big screen and wish them nothing but the best with it."

Ultimate Marvel has brought ideas(origins, stories, costumes, etc) that is a lot of Marvel Movies has utilized in their movies
 
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While you may not like the Ultimate Marvel it has introduced ideas that works for adaptions for a more general audience(cartoons like Spectacular Spider-Man or Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heroes, movies like Iron Man or Avengers) among other cartoons and movies as well.

Ultimate Marvel's original intent was to streamline and modernized the original Marvel stories in order to make it more access the then 38 years of multiple storylines, some writers (such as Mark Millar) had said in one interview


Ultimate Marvel has brought ideas(origins, stories, costumes, etc) that is a lot of Marvel Movies has utilized in their movies

I know the intention was to "modernize" the stories,and I don't mind too much if the films take part of the things that worked in the Ultimates,but ultimately :-)woot:) they don't really have to be beholden to the Ultimate storylines for the movies.Just update the era,setting,etc,without dragging along elements that were inferior to the original for the sake of being different.
 
Kingpin - IDK if he's owned by Marvel or Fox studios by now but I know Sony doesn't have any rights in using him for the moment.

Yes, they do.

During an interview with Avi Arad, Arad stated that the rights to the Kingpin were on "loan" to FOX for the Daredevil movie and now they have returned to Sony. So, apparently, film rights can go on "loan" to other studios. This bypasses some problems that might show up with the legal issues of using the characters. Put the rights to the character on loan.

http://www.**************.com/avengers/news/?a=80039
 
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Except that TASM is an origin story, and should be based on the original comics. If they wanted to show a different Peter based on later stories, they shouldn't have wasted their time on Peter's origin story in this film, and just have him start off as Spider-Man, maybe with flashbacks to Ben's death.

Actually considering we got an origin story 10 years ago, making another one was just wasting screen time, since the 2002 film portrayed Spidey's origin almost perfectly. But giving him a different personality than the 60s/70s version is just another reason.

I agree that since the origin wasn't improved it was a waste of time to re-do it.

But one thing it did was separate Webb's trilogy from Raimi's which BUTCHERED Gwen Stacy's story arc.
 
I agree that since the origin wasn't improved it was a waste of time to re-do it.

But one thing it did was separate Webb's trilogy from Raimi's which BUTCHERED Gwen Stacy's story arc.

Honestly, Raimi adapted ASM #121 nicely in the end of the 2002 film, except the love interest didn't die (although they ended up separate for a while)

TASM butchers Gwen's story arc a lot more than the Raimi films, since she's changed from a naive pretty girl to a proactive nerd. She also finds out Peter is Spider-Man pretty early, while Gwen in the comics died not knowing that. Gwen also thinks that Spider-Man killed her father, while Gwen in TASM... didn't. George Stacy's last words in the movie were the exact opposite of what they were in the comics.

I'm not complaining too much since I like Stone's Gwen more than the comics' one, and it was pretty stupid for the city to think Spider-Man killed George Stacy. But I'm not a purist.

Still, they could have done away with the origin story and have Peter meet Gwen Stacy after he becomes Spider-Man, considering they didn't meet in the comics until Peter went to college.

Oh well, at least Gwen isn't going to become Carnage in Webb's series. I hope.
 
Honestly, Raimi adapted ASM #121 nicely in the end of the 2002 film, except the love interest didn't die (although they ended up separate for a while)

TASM butchers Gwen's story arc a lot more than the Raimi films, since she's changed from a naive pretty girl to a proactive nerd. She also finds out Peter is Spider-Man pretty early, while Gwen in the comics died not knowing that. Gwen also thinks that Spider-Man killed her father, while Gwen in TASM... didn't. George Stacy's last words in the movie were the exact opposite of what they were in the comics.

I'm not complaining too much since I like Stone's Gwen more than the comics' one, and it was pretty stupid for the city to think Spider-Man killed George Stacy. But I'm not a purist.

Still, they could have done away with the origin story and have Peter meet Gwen Stacy after he becomes Spider-Man, considering they didn't meet in the comics until Peter went to college.

Oh well, at least Gwen isn't going to become Carnage in Webb's series. I hope.

That was pretty disappointing to me.
 
Honestly, Raimi adapted ASM #121 nicely in the end of the 2002 film, except the love interest didn't die (although they ended up separate for a while)

TASM butchers Gwen's story arc a lot more than the Raimi films, since she's changed from a naive pretty girl to a proactive nerd. She also finds out Peter is Spider-Man pretty early, while Gwen in the comics died not knowing that. Gwen also thinks that Spider-Man killed her father, while Gwen in TASM... didn't. George Stacy's last words in the movie were the exact opposite of what they were in the comics.

I'm not complaining too much since I like Stone's Gwen more than the comics' one, and it was pretty stupid for the city to think Spider-Man killed George Stacy. But I'm not a purist.

Still, they could have done away with the origin story and have Peter meet Gwen Stacy after he becomes Spider-Man, considering they didn't meet in the comics until Peter went to college.

Oh well, at least Gwen isn't going to become Carnage in Webb's series. I hope.

Well, all of that logic is null and void because Ultimate. :o
 
Honestly, Raimi adapted ASM #121 nicely in the end of the 2002 film, except the love interest didn't die (although they ended up separate for a while)

TASM butchers Gwen's story arc a lot more than the Raimi films, since she's changed from a naive pretty girl to a proactive nerd. She also finds out Peter is Spider-Man pretty early, while Gwen in the comics died not knowing that. Gwen also thinks that Spider-Man killed her father, while Gwen in TASM... didn't. George Stacy's last words in the movie were the exact opposite of what they were in the comics.

.

All of those are changes made so that the "Night Gwen Stacy Died" makes more of an impact so I wouldn't consider those "butchering".

What Raimi and co did to Gwen Stacy story arc was butchering. They didn't improve squat. In fact, they did the opposite, they removed the significance of Gwen Stacy completely and made GweM J.
 
Well, it's like both directors have made huge changes all over the story and characters. No one can start saying that 'the other one' did it and keep a straight face.
 
Agreed. I never understood why some people divide the otherwise segmented Spidey-movie fans into two groups, 'Raimi-Apologists' and 'Webb-Apologists', then berate the imagined opposing camp on a forum that provides us with a unique platform to come together and celebrate our love of the character.

I love both franchises - neither are perfect, I just happen to prefer one, as a fan is wont to do.
 
Well, it's like both directors have made huge changes all over the story and characters. No one can start saying that 'the other one' did it and keep a straight face.

Agreed. I never understood why some people divide the otherwise segmented Spidey-movie fans into two groups, 'Raimi-Apologists' and 'Webb-Apologists', then berate the imagined opposing camp on a forum that provides us with a unique platform to come together and celebrate our love of the character.

I love both franchises - neither are perfect, I just happen to prefer one, as a fan is wont to do.

:up::up:
 
Well, it's like both directors have made huge changes all over the story and characters. No one can start saying that 'the other one' did it and keep a straight face.

Thank you. Heck, even in the comic book world, Spider-Man had changed with different incarnations. Brian Michael Bendis made Ultimate Peter Parker pretty darn different from the 616, didn't he?
 
Thank you. Heck, even in the comic book world, Spider-Man had changed with different incarnations. Brian Michael Bendis made Ultimate Peter Parker pretty darn different from the 616, didn't he?

more or less in some aspects, I thought BMB Ultimate Peter Parker was more like the High School-College era Peter in personality, (only he came off as more snarky and willing to speak his mind) in more aspects than any of the other Ultimate characters were like their 616 characters honestly, same goes for a lot of the Ultimate Spider-Man characters in my opinion more or less.
 
Thank you. Heck, even in the comic book world, Spider-Man had changed with different incarnations. Brian Michael Bendis made Ultimate Peter Parker pretty darn different from the 616, didn't he?

He was supposed to since it was an elseworlds tale that was different from regular continuity. That was the sell. Giving readers something totally different to what they were getting in the regular Spidey comics.
 
He was supposed to since it was an elseworlds tale that was different from regular continuity. That was the sell. Giving readers something totally different to what they were getting in the regular Spidey comics.

And I bet people in charge of a reboot are of the same opinion.
 
He was supposed to since it was an elseworlds tale that was different from regular continuity. That was the sell. Giving readers something totally different to what they were getting in the regular Spidey comics.

exactly.

I can understand why someone would want different takes on Spider-man to be viewed as equal. But unlike the legend of King Arthur, the original canonical story is intact and accessible. The original will always have more gravitas than its derivatives.
 
exactly.

I can understand why someone would want different takes on Spider-man to be viewed as equal. But unlike the legend of King Arthur, the original canonical story is intact and accessible. The original will always have more gravitas than its derivatives.

Not always. There were a number of versions of Hamlet before Shakespeare wrote his. Originally Hamlet didn't die (among some other things that are radically different), but his death now is something no one would change because of what Shakespeare did with the story.
 

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