Far From Home The Uncle Ben Problem

[Web-Head]

All I wanted was one line from Peter about how he already lost Ben and now he lost Tony too. Would that have been so hard?

 

[Gothamsknight]

so many people acting like we want an entire film around Ben, and that just isn't true. sorry if we are upset that Tony Stark is treated as more of a father figure than uncle Ben is. You know, the person who has been the reason behind what he does since 1962.

Would I have to be okay if Batman, my fave superhero of all time, became who he is because of Superman?

 

[Spider-Fan]

so many people acting like we want an entire film around Ben, and that just isn't true. sorry if we are upset that Tony Stark is treated as more of a father figure than uncle Ben is. You know, the person who has been the reason behind what he does since 1962.

Would I have to be okay if Batman, my fave superhero of all time, became who he is because of Superman?

Tony did not make Peter Spider-Man. He merely mentored him after he was Spider-Man already. It's not the same thing. This would be closer to Superman making Batman aspire to be a better hero after meeting him (well established as Batman by this point), which is not necessarily a bad story. It's all about execution.

 

[Shikamaru]

If we think about it, MCU Spider-Man is basically Late Stage Capitalism Spider-Man.

It's one thing replacing Uncle Ben. Replacing him with a rich, Conservative narcissist and weapons industrialist of all people? That's exactly the guy Spider-Man fans in the 1960s protested against. It's a proto-Norman Osborn.

It's also happening in the Trump era. Just saying.

It's not the worst take on Spider-Man. It's by far the most problematic, though.

 

[Schlosser85]

We’re really gonna throw “problematic” around now?

 

[The Shape]

Tony did not make Peter Spider-Man. He merely mentored him after he was Spider-Man already. It's not the same thing. This would be closer to Superman making Batman aspire to be a better hero after meeting him (well established as Batman by this point), which is not necessarily a bad story. It's all about execution.

Not really a great analogy and you're reaching here. Peter was not "well established" as Spider-man before Tony entered the picture. In fact, he had seemingly been Spider-man for a only a brief period of time and was still swinging around in his sweatpants as sort of a proto-Spidey....before Tony brought him into the world of super-heroism, created his iconic Spidey suit for him, and taught him the valuable lessons in Homecoming that made him come into his own as a true hero.

Also, Tony Stark has MUCH more of connection to this Spider-man (and his entire mythology of supporting characters and villains) than just "making him aspire to be a better hero". There is no denying that.

 

[Schlosser85]

When Tony recruits him in Civil War, Peter says he’s had his powers for six months.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Not really a great analogy and you're reaching here. Peter was not "well established" as Spider-man before Tony entered the picture. In fact, he had seemingly been Spider-man for a only a brief period of time and was still swinging around in his sweatpants as sort of a proto-Spidey....before Tony brought him into the world of super-heroism, created his iconic Spidey suit for him, and taught him the valuable lessons in Homecoming that made him come into his own as a true hero.

Also, Tony Stark has MUCH more of connection to this Spider-man (and his entire mythology of supporting characters and villains) than just "making him aspire to be a better hero". There is no denying that.

He was Spider-Man for 6 months. I call that well established even if he had a make soft costume. Being a mentor is not the same reason as being the reason your doing it at all. Peter was Spider-Man for months before Tony. Without Tony, he is still Spider-Man. Just with a crappier costume and lower status in the superhero community

 

[Dark Raven]

He was Spider-Man for 6 months. I call that well established even if he had a make soft costume. Being a mentor is not the same reason as being the reason your doing it at all. Peter was Spider-Man for months before Tony. Without Tony, he is still Spider-Man. Just with a crappier costume and lower status in the superhero community

I wouldn't really call 6 months well established. In any job role, people don't usually consider 6 months to count as a lot of experience. For job applications, most organisations ask for at least 1-2 years experience. Can you imagine if someone said they had been a fireman for 6 months? Would you really consider him experienced, especially since a large part of those initial 6 months would've been learning the skills for the role?

It's not like Peter Parker had been in some other fighting role for a few years before either and then spent 6 months as Spider-Man where he could use some of his transferable skills. That would be a different matter then. He was a brand new rookie at that job and still figuring things out. 6 months is really not well established.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I wouldn't really call 6 months well established. In any job role, people don't usually consider 6 months to count as a lot of experience. For job applications, most organisations ask for at least 1-2 years experience. Can you imagine if someone said they had been a fireman for 6 months? Would you really consider him experienced, especially since a large part of those initial 6 months would've been learning the skills for the role?

It's not like Peter Parker had been in some other fighting role for a few years before either and then spent 6 months as Spider-Man where he could use some of his transferable skills. That would be a different matter then. He was a brand new rookie at that job and still figuring things out. 6 months is really not well established.

In comic book movie terms it is. That means we're beyond the origin. Aka, well established

 

[Mistah K88]

Not really a great analogy and you're reaching here. Peter was not "well established" as Spider-man before Tony entered the picture. In fact, he had seemingly been Spider-man for a only a brief period of time and was still swinging around in his sweatpants as sort of a proto-Spidey....before Tony brought him into the world of super-heroism, created his iconic Spidey suit for him, and taught him the valuable lessons in Homecoming that made him come into his own as a true hero.

Also, Tony Stark has MUCH more of connection to this Spider-man (and his entire mythology of supporting characters and villains) than just "making him aspire to be a better hero". There is no denying that.

To be fair, the animated series Spectacular Spider-Man started with Peter about 6 months in crime fighting... So it can be argued that MCU Peter was established as he had the same amount of time... however his inexperience is played to a ridiculous degree in Homecoming, to the point it felt like Stark saved him...

 

[The Shape]

When Tony recruits him in Civil War, Peter says he’s had his powers for six months.

Yes, and having his powers for 6 months means he was acting as "Spider-man" for even less.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Somehow i feel that if Uncle Ben was actually acknowledged in these movies, no one would have a problem with it. With just a little imagination you can do something small but heartfelt, that isn't a repetition of what came before

They decided to bring us to the beginning of his career. To me and many others apparently, it doesnt feel quite authentic without any mention of Ben. With him being basically swept under the rug and Aunt May being all young and flirty, it feels weird. It's like Feige and company view Uncle Ben just as a plot device rather than a character.

The TASM series did him wrong, it made Ben a joke. But that doesn't mean they should run away from the issue. If anything, that gives them more reason to show that he is important and not just a guy who gets shot everytime. Seeing how many people still have that cynical viewpoint makes me sad. And now the film makers are validating this idea, which is just wrong

 

[spider-neil]

My best take of Uncle Ben is the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon. Perfect.
I have problems with every other UB iteration including Raimi's.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

To be fair, the animated series Spectacular Spider-Man started with Peter about 6 months in crime fighting... So it can be argued that MCU Peter was established as he had the same amount of time... however his inexperience is played to a ridiculous degree in Homecoming, to the point it felt like Stark saved him...

TSSM is often considered as the best media adaptation of Spider-Man. It's all in the details. Peter was barely into being Spider-Man and he was already showing signs of being a competent, intelligent, capable, witty hero.

Somehow i feel that if Uncle Ben was actually acknowledged in these movies, no one would have a problem with it. With just a little imagination you can do something small but heartfelt, that isn't a repetition of what came before

They decided to bring us to the beginning of his career. To me and many others apparently, it doesnt feel quite authentic without any mention of Ben. With him being basically swept under the rug and Aunt May being all young and flirty, it feels weird. It's like Feige and company view Uncle Ben just as a plot device rather than a character.

The TASM series did him wrong, it made Ben a joke. But that doesn't mean they should run away from the issue. If anything, that gives them more reason to show that he is important and not just a guy who gets shot everytime. Seeing how many people still have that cynical viewpoint makes me sad. And now the film makers are validating this idea, which is just wrong

There were several missed opportunities in Homecoming. For example, when Peter comes home to a worried May and confesses he lost the Stark internship, all May needed to say was something along the lines of "Ben would have been so proud of you, Peter."

 

[Abudefduf]

Or the scene where Peter says "After all Aunt May has been through". He could've said "after the death of Uncle Ben" instead.

Let's face it, Uncle Ben never existed in the MCU. There's no tangible proof that he did.

 

[Random490]

Or the scene where Peter says "After all Aunt May has been through". He could've said "after the death of Uncle Ben" instead.

Let's face it, Uncle Ben never existed in the MCU. There's no tangible proof that he did.

I actually found the original line more powerful. I'm fine with Ben not getting much acknowledgement. A part of life is moving on, it makes sense for Far From Home to focus so much on Tony's death because not only is that most recent it's relevant to to the world Peter inhabits. Peter's pretty gotten over Tony's death except the world keeps throwing it back at him. I think the impression we're suppose to have is that Peter's been at it as Spider-man since the blip and all he needs is a break that he never gets. The problem is that previous films have done so much focus on Ben Marvel doesn't want to re-tread same ground. I dream of an alternate universe where the sony films didn't exist and Marvel got to make a Spider-man film free from restraint.

Still I would like future films to show Ben, even if it's just a picture. I would love an origin miniseries on Disney+

 

[Matt Parker]

While I wish we got a more overt reference to Ben, these movies haven't ignored him either. I think there's a middle ground that can be taken here. Ben's death is still obviously canon to the MCU and he is still the reason that Peter is Spider-Man, but we have been avoiding an overt reference to him because of a fear of repeating ourselves. I think Homecoming was justified in avoiding mentioning Ben, but Far From Home is where it starts to bug me. Still, I think People pretending that Ben has been completely ignored are over exaggerating. We've had several indirect references to Ben. I know these have all been pointed out a lot, but I think it deserves to be noted.

-Peter's guilt about his death was heavily hinted in Civil War
-the Russos confirm on their commentary for Civil War that Peter's room was intentionally designed to look like he had just moved in, the idea being that the Parkers no longer had enough income after Ben died to stay in a house in the Queens
-Peter tells Ned that May has been through a lot lately
-May and Peter happen to have a whole closet full of nice suits and ties (and these were confirmed to belong to Ben in the script)
-The decision the Vulture gives to Peter (about letting him go and turning a blind eye to the Vulture's heist) I think intentionally mirrors the choice that Peter had with the burglar, and notice how much that whole sequence shakes Peter to his core
-Peter uses Uncle Ben's old suitcase in Far From Home (which, according to Jon Watts, symbolizes him literally and metaphorically carrying uncle Ben's baggage with him at all times)
-The fact that May seems insistent that she and Happy aren't dating (obviously not ready for a real relationship so soon after Ben's death)
-And, of course, the idea that Peter seems to latch onto father figures so quickly, between Tony, Beck, and arguably even Happy and Toomes a bit

So yes, Uncle Ben's death is still important, it's just much, much more subtle (probably to a fault).

Also, Tony is absolutely not playing the same role here that Ben played. He didn't inspire Peter to be a hero, he just helped Peter figure out what kind of hero he wanted to be.

Also, I would just like to point out that Peter invented the web shooters and his expressive goggles (and the basic design of the Spider-Man costume) before meeting Tony. Tony just gave Peter upgraded. versions of them, but he built on the foundation of the stuff Peter invented.

I think Tony is closer to this universe's Captain Stacy, Nick Fury (from the Ultimate universe) or Max Modell than he is to Ben.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. If y'all disagree, have at it.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

100% spot on. Couldn't agree more.

 

[fan4stic]

While I wish we got a more overt reference to Ben, these movies haven't ignored him either. I think there's a middle ground that can be taken here. Ben's death is still obviously canon to the MCU and he is still the reason that Peter is Spider-Man, but we have been avoiding an overt reference to him because of a fear of repeating ourselves. I think Homecoming was justified in avoiding mentioning Ben, but Far From Home is where it starts to bug me. Still, I think People pretending that Ben has been completely ignored are over exaggerating. We've had several indirect references to Ben. I know these have all been pointed out a lot, but I think it deserves to be noted.

-Peter's guilt about his death was heavily hinted in Civil War
-the Russos confirm on their commentary for Civil War that Peter's room was intentionally designed to look like he had just moved in, the idea being that the Parkers no longer had enough income after Ben died to stay in a house in the Queens
-Peter tells Ned that May has been through a lot lately
-May and Peter happen to have a whole closet full of nice suits and ties (and these were confirmed to belong to Ben in the script)
-The decision the Vulture gives to Peter (about letting him go and turning a blind eye to the Vulture's heist) I think intentionally mirrors the choice that Peter had with the burglar, and notice how much that whole sequence shakes Peter to his core
-Peter uses Uncle Ben's old suitcase in Far From Home (which, according to Jon Watts, symbolizes him literally and metaphorically carrying uncle Ben's baggage with him at all times)
-The fact that May seems insistent that she and Happy aren't dating (obviously not ready for a real relationship so soon after Ben's death)
-And, of course, the idea that Peter seems to latch onto father figures so quickly, between Tony, Beck, and arguably even Happy and Toomes a bit

So yes, Uncle Ben's death is still important, it's just much, much more subtle (probably to a fault).

Also, Tony is absolutely not playing the same role here that Ben played. He didn't inspire Peter to be a hero, he just helped Peter figure out what kind of hero he wanted to be.

Also, I would just like to point out that Peter invented the web shooters and his expressive goggles (and the basic design of the Spider-Man costume) before meeting Tony. Tony just gave Peter upgraded. versions of them, but he built on the foundation of the stuff Peter invented.

I think Tony is closer to this universe's Captain Stacy, Nick Fury (from the Ultimate universe) or Max Modell than he is to Ben.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. If y'all disagree, have at it.

I think the CW one is the main part that works, but I also think that without building on it later, it can not necessarily be as meaningful. This doesn't mean we have to go through the origin beat by beat, but I think trying to build a foundation for the Peter character and the emotion of the story and leaving out a larger piece of that in story without outright talking about, if not showcasing Ben, I think the it presents weaker structure. For all that scene is worth without building on it, he could be talking about how he let a dog get hit by a car when he could've stopped it.

The rest aren't developed with an emotional connection to the story or characters. Peter talks about everything May's gone through, but all May really gets is a scene where she gets upset with Peter and a few guys thinking she's hot. That suitcase can be meant to be baggage of Ben, but, or so I've heard, the character and story doesn't connect with that. Same with the suits.

 

[Zant]

Savage

 

[Spider-Fan]

While I wish we got a more overt reference to Ben, these movies haven't ignored him either. I think there's a middle ground that can be taken here. Ben's death is still obviously canon to the MCU and he is still the reason that Peter is Spider-Man, but we have been avoiding an overt reference to him because of a fear of repeating ourselves. I think Homecoming was justified in avoiding mentioning Ben, but Far From Home is where it starts to bug me. Still, I think People pretending that Ben has been completely ignored are over exaggerating. We've had several indirect references to Ben. I know these have all been pointed out a lot, but I think it deserves to be noted.

-Peter's guilt about his death was heavily hinted in Civil War
-the Russos confirm on their commentary for Civil War that Peter's room was intentionally designed to look like he had just moved in, the idea being that the Parkers no longer had enough income after Ben died to stay in a house in the Queens
-Peter tells Ned that May has been through a lot lately
-May and Peter happen to have a whole closet full of nice suits and ties (and these were confirmed to belong to Ben in the script)
-The decision the Vulture gives to Peter (about letting him go and turning a blind eye to the Vulture's heist) I think intentionally mirrors the choice that Peter had with the burglar, and notice how much that whole sequence shakes Peter to his core
-Peter uses Uncle Ben's old suitcase in Far From Home (which, according to Jon Watts, symbolizes him literally and metaphorically carrying uncle Ben's baggage with him at all times)
-The fact that May seems insistent that she and Happy aren't dating (obviously not ready for a real relationship so soon after Ben's death)
-And, of course, the idea that Peter seems to latch onto father figures so quickly, between Tony, Beck, and arguably even Happy and Toomes a bit

So yes, Uncle Ben's death is still important, it's just much, much more subtle (probably to a fault).

Also, Tony is absolutely not playing the same role here that Ben played. He didn't inspire Peter to be a hero, he just helped Peter figure out what kind of hero he wanted to be.

Also, I would just like to point out that Peter invented the web shooters and his expressive goggles (and the basic design of the Spider-Man costume) before meeting Tony. Tony just gave Peter upgraded. versions of them, but he built on the foundation of the stuff Peter invented.

I think Tony is closer to this universe's Captain Stacy, Nick Fury (from the Ultimate universe) or Max Modell than he is to Ben.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. If y'all disagree, have at it.

Excellent post kind sir

 

[Shikamaru]

Savage

Tony's face here highlights the biggest problem with turning him into Uncle Ben: He's simply not Uncle Ben material.

Cap would have been a more logical choice as a proxy Uncle Ben. He's much closer to the Parkers in background, attitude, and values than Tony is. Outside of science and snark, Tony and Peter are fundamentally different people (as Homecoming showed).

 

[Spider-Fan]

As others have said, he ain't Uncle Ben. He's closer to Captain Stacy narratively speaking.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Savage

This just makes me sad