Far From Home The Uncle Ben Problem

[Another_Fool]

The TASM series did him wrong, it made Ben a joke. But that doesn't mean they should run away from the issue. If anything, that gives them more reason to show that he is important and not just a guy who gets shot everytime. Seeing how many people still have that cynical viewpoint makes me sad. And now the film makers are validating this idea, which is just wrong

I don't know if I agree that the TASM films made Ben a joke. In fact they tried to do more with him in the first film than SM1. Whether that was successful or not in you caring for that take on Uncle Ben is debatable, but a joke seems to be a mischaracterization of that issue. TASM films certainly have their problems but Uncle Ben and for that matter Aunt May, were not one of them.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Uncle Ben died over 2 cents from a take/leave a penny thing because Peter wanted chocolate milk. Yeah, it was kind of a joke.

 

[Flint Marko]

I actually liked where they were taking him until the milk moment.

Skipping the Uncle Ben origin altogether is better than that half-ass nonsense.

 

[fan4stic]

As others have said, he ain't Uncle Ben. He's closer to Captain Stacy narratively speaking.

I think that'd have more weight to me, if Ben were mentioned vocally.

 

[Schlosser85]

Personally I think TASM and Martin Sheen gave Uncle Ben more of an impression than Raimi did.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I mean, gosh, how DARE they ask for an adaptation of a comic book character to... Adapt the comic book character ?

Yeah it's pretty obnoxious. They see things in black and white when there's absolutely nothing wrong with adaptation being a spectrum.

 

[2kt09]

A part of life is moving on, it makes sense for Far From Home to focus so much on Tony's death because not only is that most recent it's relevant to to the world Peter inhabits. Peter's pretty much gotten over Tony's death except the world keeps throwing it back at him. I think the impression we're suppose to have is that Peter's been at it as Spider-man since the blip and all he needs is a break that he never gets. The problem is that previous films have done so much focus on Ben Marvel doesn't want to re-tread same ground. I dream of an alternate universe where the sony films didn't exist and Marvel got to make a Spider-man film free from restraint.

It's not that the well is so dried up, it's that they (Sony, Marvel, whoever) so badly want Miles Morales's story to be the de-facto Spidey.

 

[Another_Fool]

Uncle Ben died over 2 cents from a take/leave a penny thing because Peter wanted chocolate milk. Yeah, it was kind of a joke.

Weren't you just looking so deep into the context to try and convince other posters that Tony is more of a Captain Stacy? Yet its too much trouble to see the context in ASM that what contributed to Ben's murder was Peter's arrogance to think a robbery was not his problem? I get you don't like ASM, and I actually like your thought that Tony resembles Captain Stacy, but your oversimplification of the ASM scene contradicts what you're asking other posters to do in regards to the whole Tony - Uncle Ben conundrum.

I actually liked where they were taking him until the milk moment.

Skipping the Uncle Ben origin altogether is better than that half-ass nonsense.

I don't necessarily agree that it was half assed nonsense. But I'll tell you what. Since we're taking about it, I've always had a slight gripe how both the Raimi film and ASM somewhat sugarcoat Peter in both robbery scenes where they give him and the audience a reason to feel the people getting robbed was deserved at the moment. I tend to like how in the comics Peter didn't need to be screwed over for him to let that robber get away. It really makes his feeling of guilt more powerful.

 

[Flint Marko]

Peter was not "well established" as Spider-man before Tony entered the picture. In fact, he had seemingly been Spider-man for a only a brief period of time and was still swinging around in his sweatpants as sort of a proto-Spidey...

Swinging around on home-made webs, saving people, and calling yourself “Spider-man” for a number of months undoubtedly strikes me as “established”.

I don’t think you need a fancy outfit to be an established superhero, which is the entire point of Homecomint.

and taught him the valuable lessons in Homecoming that made him come into his own as a true hero.

Not sure how you missed that the "Great Power/Responsibility" lesson, which is the valuable lesson that establishes him as Spider-man, was already impressed upon him in Civil War.

 

[hafizbat]

This video sums up my feelings pretty well. It's worth a watch, whatever your stance is.

 

[MilkmanDan]

Personally I think TASM and Martin Sheen gave Uncle Ben more of an impression than Raimi did.

I agree. In Raimi's films Uncle Ben was clearly a good man, but in TASM he was also charming with an endearing sense of humour. I genuinely liked Martin Sheen's Ben and missed him after the character was killed off.

 

[Gothamsknight]

This video sums up my feelings pretty well. It's worth a watch, whatever your stance is.

As someone who still enjoyed Far From Home for what it is, this video really hit the nail on the head with a lot of things.

HiiTop films has been making some really good points about the MCU Spider-Man recently. Very very very valid points

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Personally I think TASM and Martin Sheen gave Uncle Ben more of an impression than Raimi did.

I agree. But then again Raimi's characters were all very broad imo. Especially Aunt May and Uncle Ben. They aren't really characters, they are plot mechanisms.

 

[hafizbat]

I agree. But then again Raimi's characters were all very broad imo. Especially Aunt May and Uncle Ben. They aren't really characters, they are plot mechanisms.

Lol, and what was Brad in FFH? Or Fury/Ned/Flash/MJ/Happy/May?

 

[Schlosser85]

Lol, and what was Brad in FFH? Or Fury/Ned/Flash/MJ/Happy/May?

Who said they weren’t?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Lol, and what was Brad in FFH? Or Fury/Ned/Flash/MJ/Happy/May?

That you bring up Brad to compare to Uncle Ben and Aunt May kind of makes my point for me.

As to the rest, a pretty darn good cast of characters, who have all have something to them. Flash is a good example of this imo. He doesn't have much screen time, but has a bit of depth.

Spoiler

His general seeking of validation on the internet and how it ties back to his parents without having to spell it out, was quite nicely done imo.

By the way Fury is in about 30 seconds of FFH.

 

[hafizbat]

Who said they weren’t?

It's pot calling the kettle black. FFH has a far worse supporting cast than the Raimi films.

May and Ben were archetypes, sure. But they served a purpose that was far more meaningful than any side characters from HC/FFH, which are basically caricatures whose only purpose is for cheap jokes.

 

[hafizbat]

That you bring up Brad to compare to Uncle Ben and Aunt May kind of makes my point for me.

As to the rest, a pretty darn good cast of characters, who have all have something to them. Flash is a good example of this imo. He doesn't have much screen time, but has a bit of depth.

Spoiler

His general seeking of validation on the internet and how it ties back to his parents without having to spell it out, was quite nicely done imo.

By the way Fury is in about 30 seconds of FFH.

Okay, and why the hell should I care? What purpose does that serve to Peter, our main protagonist? Does he have a heart-to-heart with Flash that I missed? Take Flash out of the movie, does anything change?

Now take Ben or May out of the Raimi films and see what happens. That's my point.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I agree. But then again Raimi's characters were all very broad imo. Especially Aunt May and Uncle Ben. They aren't really characters, they are plot mechanisms.

Agreed. Raimi's characters are incredibly cartoonish which has its own charm (the Raimi films are great fun as action/comedies but outside of some moments in Spider-Man 2 they don't really work as actual dramatic stories) but TASM's Ben and May feel like actual flesh and blood people even if the script doesn't quite live up to its potential. Great characters and concepts in messy, underwritten scripts was the bread and butter of that short-lived franchise.

If they were to show Uncle Ben in the MCU it would be exciting rather than a retreard. It's not as if an Uncle Ben that fits with their version of May is going to bear any real resemblance to previous iterations, it would be something unique. Hell, in general I'd love to see Holland's origin in general explored at least in dialogue even though it's hard to imagine his Peter ever being an arrogant ass about his new powers like your classic Peter.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Okay, and why the hell should I care? What purpose does that serve to Peter, our main protagonist? Does he have a heart-to-heart with Flash that I missed? Take Flash out of the movie, does anything change?

Now take Ben or May out of the Raimi films and see what happens. That's my point.

That is like asking why devote a character arc to Theoden, who it does not serve Frodo. MCU has characters, not plot devices. Which is my point. You just reduced Raimi's Aunt May and Uncle Ben to plot devices.

In FFH MJ definitely has relevance to the plot (you can't just suggest you can remove her from the film), and Peter's character arc as a whole. There is a lot more character to her here as opposed to Raimi's imo. Where she functions as almost as if she was ordered out of a catalog to be the most overly broad superhero girlfriend. It is one of the reasons her relationship with Peter is such a car wreck and is then fatally stabbed in the chest in Spider-Man 3. Same with MJ's character.

Also, there is a clear through line so far with Flash in the first two films.

 

[Web-Head]

This video sums up my feelings pretty well. It's worth a watch, whatever your stance is.

I don't agree with everything he said, but he makes a lot of good points.

Okay, and why the hell should I care? What purpose does that serve to Peter, our main protagonist? Does he have a heart-to-heart with Flash that I missed? Take Flash out of the movie, does anything change?

Now take Ben or May out of the Raimi films and see what happens. That's my point.

Flash was the reason Peter and Happy knew they were in London, so basically that was his only real role.

 

[Flint Marko]

I liked Aunt May and Uncle Ben in the Raimi films, and I liked the supporting cast in FFH.

I don’t see why it’s an either/or. You could argue both are broadly drawn characters, and I’d point you to the Lee/Ditko/Romita issues where said characters were more or less exactly the same.

Ironically I do think, after years of people screeching about judging movies off preconceptions and bias and their own precious ideals of what a character should be..... that crowd is now looking at Spider-man and doing exactly that.

Sure, this isn’t a purists version of the character. Peter didn’t sew his costume and they haven’t mentioned Uncle Ben. But what we’ve been given works like gangbusters in context and holds true to the spirit of the source material in every way that matters.

 

[hafizbat]

That is like asking why devote a character arc to Theoden, who it does not serve Frodo. MCU has characters, not plot devices. Which is my point. You just reduced Raimi's Aunt May and Uncle Ben to plot devices.

In FFH MJ definitely has relevance to the plot (you can't just suggest you can remove her from the film), and Peter's character arc as a whole. There is a lot more character to her here as opposed to Raimi's imo. Where she functions as almost as if she was ordered out of a catalog to be the most overly broad superhero girlfriend. It is one of the reasons her relationship with Peter is such a car wreck and is then fatally stabbed in the chest in Spider-Man 3. Same with MJ's character.

Also, there is a clear through line so far with Flash in the first two films.

You just compared Flash to King Theoden. I don't think I can continue to take this debate seriously lol.

 

[hafizbat]

I liked Aunt May and Uncle Ben in the Raimi films, and I liked the supporting cast in FFH.

I don’t see why it’s an either/or. You could argue both are broadly drawn characters, and I’d point you to the Lee/Ditko/Romita issues where said characters were more or less exactly the same.

Ironically I do think, after years of people screeching about judging movies off preconceptions and bias and their own precious ideals of what a character should be..... that crowd is now looking at Spider-man and doing exactly that.

Sure, this isn’t a purists version of the character. Peter didn’t sew his costume and they haven’t mentioned Uncle Ben. But what we’ve been given works like gangbusters in context and holds true to the spirit of the source material in every way that matters.

I hate this argument. Why does any criticism of the movie have to be dismissed as fanboys just wanting "pure" Spider-Man?

Maybe I just think Peter being dumb enough to give away you-know-what is simply dumb. Or maybe I just don't really like how this kid has everything given to him. Or how he can just call up Happy to come save him and make him feel better. I could go on and on, but my point is that I don't like the choices Marvel has made because they've created a weak and uninteresting protagonist, not because I'm a "purist".

 

[Flint Marko]

I hate this argument. Why does any criticism of the movie have to be dismissed as fanboys just wanting "pure" Spider-Man?

Maybe I just think Peter being dumb enough to give away you-know-what is simply dumb. Or maybe I just don't really like how this kid has everything given to him. Or how he can just call up Happy to come save him and make him feel better. I could go on and on, but my point is that I don't like the choices Marvel has made because they've created a weak and uninteresting protagonist, not because I'm a "purist".

I must have missed where I dismissed any and all criticisms as such.

Everyone is free to dislike any movie for whatever reason, but once you breach “XYZ character would never do XYZ” you tread into highly contentious territory. And I see a whole lot of that against this version of Spider-man when so many people could use a refresher course on not only the early Lee/Ditko/Romita issues but also the MCU Spider-man movies as well.