Transformers Transformers is not Toy Story

[tviceman]

I have watched transformers from the start.

This movie is going to be like Jurassic Park in many ways.
It will do for machinery in movies what Jurassic park did for animals/living beings. After this movie a lot more people will have confidence that they can do more with machines. Not to mention the fact that you CAN do a movie with more than one huge character wrecking havok at one time.

Secondly, I'm sure there are good reasons for making megatron the way he is. I'd rather have a great movie with Megatron looking like that than have a bad movie with megatron being his G1 self.

Thirdly, I'm VERY grateful Michael Bay is in charge of this. Because he is not a die hard fanboy of the franchise, he has the balls to pull off some crazy entertaining stuff like we are seeing in the trailer as opposed to pleasing all the fanboys and making everyone else go ???!

This summer I wanted something I had never seen before. Spidey 3, POTC 3, SHREK 3 etc etc were the same old things. Transformers is what I'm most excited about even with megatron being an alien spaceship.

Your second point is kind of... stupdi. A G1 resembling Megatron does not mean the movie would have been bad. Neither does a totally redesigned Megatron make the movie good. Those aspects are completely independent on one another.

Anyways, glad you liked it. How'd you get to watch it?

 

[Emotiongear]

Your second point is kind of... stupdi. A G1 resembling Megatron does not mean the movie would have been bad. Neither does a totally redesigned Megatron make the movie good. Those aspects are completely independent on one another.

Anyways, glad you liked it. How'd you get to watch it?

I havent seen the Transformers movie. I wont until June 27th.
I meant I have watched the cartoon from the very begenning.

My second point meant I look at this as a whole movie, not just Megatron. The whole concept is great. Im sure they have good reasons for Megatrons new design (and this ties in to the concept as a whole), whether it has something to do with storyline, sequels, things we dont know about etc. It's not easy launching a successful franchise.
One possible reason why they didnt make him a gun was maybe cos they want to get away from selling toy guns to kids in the stores. Who knows? There's more to the look of the charcaters now than the designers visions or how they looked 23 years ago

 

[mMark]

This thread is interesting because its all the same stuff that we argued when the designs first came out. I'll respout my previous spouts...

This movie version Optimus Prime is a perfect example of what many G1 fans would find acceptable. Lots have/had issues with the flames, less had issues with him being a longnose...but most have come to accept him. Why? Its because he's RECOGNIZABLE even with his modernization. Why couldn't they have done this for the other bots? The only other one who is slightly recognizable is Jazz. You can say, "Most robots are the same color"...not enough I say. In making the characters unrecognizable they have taken the risk of alienating the fans...and why do that when they successfully combined old and new in Optimus?

why didn't anybody mention the word "style"? This thread is started to look at the movie as a whole and try to understand why all the changes.

Are you expecting a "cartoon movie" or an "action movie"? That's the difference. As a fan, I'd rather it to be a cool action movie.

Really when I first saw bumblebee not as a classic beetle, I said WTF?! Then gradually it all became crystal clear why they design everything the way they are when I see the rest robots design.

now we can look at them one by one.

First we look at prime, why they can make it more recognizable, more look like G1 prime? I guess that's because there are things from the G1 design of prime they can use to fit into the overall style of this movie (photo real, machinery, advanced...) So what will not fit? Simply put, a simple design will make it cartonnized, 'cause in real world cars / jet... all have super complex machinery structure... once again, transformers is an action movie, not Toy Story.

Now let's get down to business.

Bumblebee? why not make bumblebee more like bumblebee in G1? Really?! How? what to adapt? A human face? All those big geometry blocks? Please tell me? If you are so much suffered from this "why not" then you must have something to say about "how"?!!

Megatron? why not? I think the first reason that megatron "have nothing to do" with the old G1 design is that: it can't be a pistol. It's a real world action movie, you just can't make the giant megatron all the sudden turn into small pistol, that's too funny . Since it's not gonna be gun, thus no need to keep the cannon and everything else. That's why they made this total new revolutionary design.

Starscream? why not? Have you ever seen a fighter with that color combination? There is no reference in the real world for Starscream to scan to I guess.

If you look the rest of other G1 design, basically it's just there are two things that can't fit into this "real world action movie" concept:
1) the colors are too bright (like all cartoons do)
2) structure too simple (again too cartoonized)

Now if you still angry about why not adapt more from the G1 design. It's got to be either you are just looking forward to see a "Toy Story like" cartoon movie with CGI effect (like TMNT, oh what a failure) or you can tell me in speicific how the G1 concept can fit into this movie.

 

[CFlash]

mMark, I think the point that keeps getting "lost in translation" is that just because someone wants a little more iconic faithfulness, doesn't mean they're looking for a cartoony megazord sorta thing.

I'm open to the idea that all the robot designs have a basis in logic. But, does that mean that Bumblebee has to be almost 17 or 18 feet tall while Jazz is 13 or so? If you know anything about Transformers, you'd now this borders on parody. Even moreso if you consider their vehicle modes in the movie. Now that IS parody.

Fine, Megatron hasn't scanned an Earth mode. Does that really really mean he has to have fangs?

 

[mMark]

honestly i don't like megatron myself either. just can't stand that there are people still asking why he's not with his cannon. That's all my post is talking about.

 

[mMark]

i never said i like megatron's design in movie, do i?

 

[tviceman]

Go to page 16 of the fan manip thread... and then wait, because they're huge files.

Thank you!

 

[XXTBWCXX]

my only real complaint is that unlike many other nostalgia based movies from people's childhood, a large majority of characters aren't easily recognisable, especially megatron whose look should be as iconic as optimus primes

i believe they should have kept megatrons general look and updated it to look like the rest of the characters do in the films but made sure what ever he transformed into had the same general characteristics...

i would have loved for megatron to be some sort of bazooka for another decepticon to fire instead of a hand held gun and the reason the military wanted him was to try to harness this weapon for their own application.

That is true, the whole Megatron, you can really complain about it, but how could you make him iconic when he transforms? Him turning into a gun for Starscream wouldn't go too well, so what vehicle would make him more noticeable like Prime's vehicle? Another jet would be cool, but Starscream is a great jet already. The idea of him being imprisoned before he could scan a vehicle or animal, is fine because him freeing himself and coming out as in his protoform is better to shows off how more alien-esque he is more than anyother of the Decepticons.

I am glad he will have a canon though.

 

[nosebleed.]

why didn't anybody mention the word "style"? This thread is started to look at the movie as a whole and try to understand why all the changes.

Are you expecting a "cartoon movie" or an "action movie"? That's the difference. As a fan, I'd rather it to be a cool action movie.

Really when I first saw bumblebee not as a classic beetle, I said WTF?! Then gradually it all became crystal clear why they design everything the way they are when I see the rest robots design.

now we can look at them one by one.

First we look at prime, why they can make it more recognizable, more look like G1 prime? I guess that's because there are things from the G1 design of prime they can use to fit into the overall style of this movie (photo real, machinery, advanced...) So what will not fit? Simply put, a simple design will make it cartonnized, 'cause in real world cars / jet... all have super complex machinery structure... once again, transformers is an action movie, not Toy Story.

Now let's get down to business.

Bumblebee? why not make bumblebee more like bumblebee in G1? Really?! How? what to adapt? A human face? All those big geometry blocks? Please tell me? If you are so much suffered from this "why not" then you must have something to say about "how"?!!

Megatron? why not? I think the first reason that megatron "have nothing to do" with the old G1 design is that: it can't be a pistol. It's a real world action movie, you just can't make the giant megatron all the sudden turn into small pistol, that's too funny . Since it's not gonna be gun, thus no need to keep the cannon and everything else. That's why they made this total new revolutionary design.

Starscream? why not? Have you ever seen a fighter with that color combination? There is no reference in the real world for Starscream to scan to I guess.

If you look the rest of other G1 design, basically it's just there are two things that can't fit into this "real world action movie" concept:
1) the colors are too bright (like all cartoons do)
2) structure too simple (again too cartoonized)

Now if you still angry about why not adapt more from the G1 design. It's got to be either you are just looking forward to see a "Toy Story like" cartoon movie with CGI effect (like TMNT, oh what a failure) or you can tell me in speicific how the G1 concept can fit into this movie.

Did you even read my post?? I SAID, "This movie version Optimus Prime is a perfect example of what many G1 fans would find acceptable." Did that translate to, "I want exact translations of G1"?? No it didn't. Why do people keep assuming this when it has NEVER BEEN SAID?

Let me break it down for you. The version of Optimus Prime they are using in THIS movie...the movie being released THIS July 3rd...is a PERFECT example of what I want to see in a modernized Transformer. He looks modernized yet still RECOGNIZABLE. Why couldn't they have made the rest of the Transformers as RECOGNIZABLE? If you can't answer my question then please don't dance around it and start yapping about stuff like, "They can't make Megatron a pistol..." yadda yadda yadda. I kind of figured that out 17 years ago...thanks.

 

[mMark]

Did you even read my post?? I SAID, "This movie version Optimus Prime is a perfect example of what many G1 fans would find acceptable." Did that translate to, "I want exact translations of G1"?? No it didn't. Why do people keep assuming this when it has NEVER BEEN SAID?

Let me break it down for you. The version of Optimus Prime they are using in THIS movie...the movie being released THIS July 3rd...is a PERFECT example of what I want to see in a modernized Transformer. He looks modernized yet still RECOGNIZABLE. Why couldn't they have made the rest of the Transformers as RECOGNIZABLE? If you can't answer my question then please don't dance around it and start yapping about stuff like, "They can't make Megatron a pistol..." yadda yadda yadda. I kind of figured that out 17 years ago...thanks.

who's dancing around?

 

[mMark]

look, I don't hate the G1 design. I just think it's not gonna fit into the overall style the movie is going after. As regarding why prime stays more recognizable I have made those point clear in my post.

colors and simple cartoonized structure are the main drawbacks on the G1 design to fit into the movie.

 

[mMark]

i kind of figure this out. we can never convince each other, and no need to. simply because that G1 design doesn't mean that much to me as it may to you, so it turns out to be pretty acceptable when the G1 design concept is pretty much "disappear" in the movie.

it's not who's right or wrong, just people with different point of views. To me, I can live with the idea that it's an action movie first, then the cartoon characters.

looking forward to this movie.

 

[CFlash]

look, I don't hate the G1 design. I just think it's not gonna fit into the overall style the movie is going after. As regarding why prime stays more recognizable I have made those point clear in my post.

colors and simple cartoonized structure are the main drawbacks on the G1 design to fit into the movie.

That doesn't explain why Megatron needs to have fangs, does a lot of growling, and steals other bot's souls (God I hope that's one aspect of the script they changed). Isn't that MORE cartoony?

 

[mMark]

That doesn't explain why Megatron needs to have fangs, does a lot of growling, and steals other bot's souls (God I hope that's one aspect of the script they changed). Isn't that MORE cartoony?

i said i understand why they didn't adapt the G1 megatron design but I never agree that the current megatron is "even ok". now I only expect he can give me suprises when in actions in the movie story.

 

[Tempest19]

No. Transformers is not Toy Story. This is Toy Story:

I personally don't see what the big confusion is.







And yes this whole post was sarcasm.

 

[CFlash]

i said i understand why they didn't adapt the G1 megatron design but I never agree that the current megatron is "even ok". now I only expect he can give me suprises when in actions in the movie story.

I "understand" why they did it too. But it's not because of an honest good-faith attempt to "adapt" the original designs and original iconography. They worked backwards from their own (often wildly unfaithful) wants for the movie. For instance, what they did for Bumblebee. They said we need a 'cool muscle car, hot rod star'.... and thus logically we get his MUCH bigger stature (towering over Jazz for instance). It should have been the OTHER way around.

 

[nosebleed.]

look, I don't hate the G1 design. I just think it's not gonna fit into the overall style the movie is going after. As regarding why prime stays more recognizable I have made those point clear in my post.

You made nothing clear in your post. You stated what people have been stating over and over again. That G1 WON'T WORK! Of COURSE it won't work...that's why we're all open to new designs...but most of us want designs that are at least slightly recognizable.

Those two resemble each other more than any of the new designs. THAT's what I'm getting at. You cannot justify the reason why the other Transformers don't resemble ANY previous incarnation like the new Optimus Prime does to his G1 self.

colors and simple cartoonized structure are the main drawbacks on the G1 design to fit into the movie.

Who the hell is asking for "simple cartoonized structure"?

 

[Visceral]

yeap, thicker thighs than calves and also some sort of pistol thing on his right shoulder...

if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

edit:i could live without the pants/underwear though...

this is why i was never a tf fan, this is the bad guy yeah okay bleh

 

[Tempest19]

I agree with Shia's comments about the whole Megatron gun thing. And I seriously doubt we will see a Megatron gun in a film.

"We're staying true to a lot of them, but again, you can't make Megatron a gun because if you make Megatron a gun then he has to have an orange cap. You can't make a movie with a gun transforming when you have kids out there killing each other. You can't publicize the gun like we used to in the '80's where Megatron was a gun."

And I'm just curious did they actually make a toy that looks like this?!!!

If so, hope no kid came across a real Walther P-38 and thought it was a Megatron transformer- that the gun was a toy.

 

[nosebleed.]

this is why i was never a tf fan, this is the bad guy yeah okay bleh

Because other bad guys from the 80s were a lot cooler

I agree with Shia's comments about the whole Megatron gun thing. And I seriously doubt we will see a Megatron gun in a film.

"We're staying true to a lot of them, but again, you can't make Megatron a gun because if you make Megatron a gun then he has to have an orange cap. You can't make a movie with a gun transforming when you have kids out there killing each other. You can't publicize the gun like we used to in the '80's where Megatron was a gun."

And I'm just curious did they actually make a toy that looks like this?!!!


If so, hope no kid came across a real Walther P-38 and thought it was a Megatron transformer- that the gun was a toy.

You have said yourself that you are not a G1 fan Tempest...so you do not understand it. The reasons for changing Megatron from a gun to a Tank is because of the reason you stated...there were MANY more replica toy guns dating back to the 50s and 40s that kids played with as well. But times change and safety is of course a big concern. But WHATEVER Megatron's alt mode is...he does not look like ANY of his previous incarnations in his current movie form.

 

[mMark]

since there are a lot of talks over megatron's movie design. here are some good fan art of megatron with great adpatation from the G1 concept.

love this head design extremely:

 

[November Rain]

That's where your mistaken. Megatrons G1 design is not as iconic because they changed it so many times. And the only almost constant design element was his head shape. And even that was tossed when Gigatron was remaned Megatron for RiD. Really the iconic form of Megatron is either a tank or a jet. He's been those alts forms more often than a gun.

Where as with Optimus Prime they's always kept many of the same design elements. The head that has a blue helmet with a central spire and horns on the side. A sometimes complete facemask. And his chest windows. Every incarnation of OP has those elements no matter the alt form (even Optimus "Prime jr." Primal).

ask anyone what megatron look like, i can guarantee they will give you a g1 description.

no matter how many forms they have given him, that is the one that sticks in people's memory...

hence, the iconic status.

 

[November Rain]

That is true, the whole Megatron, you can really complain about it, but how could you make him iconic when he transforms? Him turning into a gun for Starscream wouldn't go too well, so what vehicle would make him more noticeable like Prime's vehicle? Another jet would be cool, but Starscream is a great jet already. The idea of him being imprisoned before he could scan a vehicle or animal, is fine because him freeing himself and coming out as in his protoform is better to shows off how more alien-esque he is more than anyother of the Decepticons.

I am glad he will have a canon though.

if that's the case then fair enough,

it he doesn't have time to scan, he doesn't have time to scan.

however, like i said earlier, having megatron scan something at the end of the film would be pretty damn sweet so he coudl turn up in a sequel looking fairly badass.

let's say the script was changed. he could easily scan a smaller object that he sees as being potentially dangerous and duplicate it in his own size to cause maximum damage, like a 2 decepticon sized boozoka.

 

[HHHDan]

Today a friend of mine (also a TF fan) talked to me again about how the upcoming movie is ruining the classic G1 Transformers image in his head, then another guy in the office jumped out and said:" what are you expecting? You wanna make it a Toy Story 3?"

I think he's got a point. It's very clear that if Michael Bay brought back all the original designs for megatron, prime, bumblebee... It's gonna just be another "Giant Toy Fighting Story" for this summer.

Pretty much had enough of those who are still comparing the movie with the orignal designs in G1. If you miss them so much, go to deviantArt where you easily find lots of brilliant artists bringing you tons of TF G1 character artworks.

I am sorry if this offend you in anyways, it's just something stuck in my chest.

Makes absolutly no sense whatsoever: They could of easily made versions that would of been tru to the originals and not look like "Giant toys". I think you and your coworker highly underhestimate the technology at hand!

Secondly: Changing major designs is always a mistake. The truer they've stay to the original (With other superhero/comic book movies), the better praises they have been receiving. For exemple: people still cry foul of the casting of a black man for the kingpin in Daredevil, the X-men costumes and the poor portrail of Venom in SM3, while people are praising the Iron man costume (Which doesn't look like a big toy, BTW), the portrail of Spider-man in the first movie and many seem more and more excited at the upcoming portrail of the Joker in TDK; all of the laters being close representations of the original material.

 

[HHHDan]

since there are a lot of talks over megatron's movie design. here are some good fan art of megatron with great adpatation from the G1 concept.

Nice design!!!