There were so many good parts. I loved the moment with Wanda, Vision, and the twins all standing together in battle ready stances. So good. "You were literally made for this." It felt so intimidating. I love what Olsen did with her accent, throughout the entire series, but this episode really showed it in a great light.
Vision settling his battle with White Vision due to discussion was great. The modulation used on White Vision's voice was perfectly unsettling, and you could almost literally see the gears in his head turning as he contemplated the thought experiment. A great way to end that conflict.
As for what really brought us to tears...warning, this next part contains mentions of personal tragedy and loss for me and my fiancée.
Wanda deciding to end the Hex made us weep. She willingly gave up her husband and kids. My fiancée and I lost our daughter last year, near the end of the pregnancy. She would have been 9 months old now. We both looked at each other when Wanda was saying goodbye to them and we said "If it were me, sorry Westview." We both would continue with the hex and keep our lost loved ones around. Maybe that makes us villains, I don't know.
The pain and grief that Wanda went through this series, I could feel it. I don't blame her for what she did. It doesn't make it right, okay, or justifiable. I don't believe there's any reason to justify subjugating people. But I get why she did it. Her pain was very relatable, and honestly, being able to end the hex probably makes her a stronger person then my fiancée and I.
I hope the rest of the Disney+ series are as good as this one. I'm really looking forward to Falcon and Winter Soldier. I don't know if I'll end up having such a personal connection though, and this series really set the bar very high for the rest of them. I know it was only meant for one season, and that Wanda will be the Multiverse of Madness, but I hope we get to see more of Vision, white Vision or otherwise.
Thank you for sharing this Imjenn. I'm so sorry for what you went through, and I agree 100% with your points.
And looking at this clip again, are we supposed to expect that Agatha wasn't manipulating and gaslighting Wanda to some degree during this whole ordeal? She clearly was. Agatha was gaslighting Wanda during some of this experience.
Over all, I liked the show, but I kinda felt disappointed in the finale. It felt like the show started off with a unique premise (at least for the MCU) which stood out, had mystery and was really enjoyable in surrealist, sitcom way, but then after the introduction of the outside modern world the show started to slowly progress to more generic, like it was slowly "de-unique-ifying" itself to fit expectations after 'We Interrupt this Program'. By the finale, it really culminated in the fight scene between Wanda and Agatha, I thought that since the series was about Chaos Magic and reality bending, playing with the very fabric of reality, that fight could have been really creative, wacky and strange (even more so than Dr Strange's fights), but Wanda just kept throwing red magic bolts and Agatha kept either absorbing them or throwing purple bolts while exposition-dumping.
I guess, over all, I would have liked the mystery to have been drawn out more. To me, it feels like maybe they could have moved Episode 4 and subsequent outside world stuff until after Vision discovered the outside world in All-New Halloween Spooktacular - I mean, especially since 'We Interrupt this Program' was just a recap of outside world going-ons, so it could have been nearly anywhere. Since this is such a character-centric show, I just really would have liked the idea of finding out what's going on at the same time as Vision, like him and us as an audience were being gas-lighted by the weirdness for so long, wondering what's going on, and then we both finally emerged from Westview and surprisingly find the real world pointing guns at us, then they could have caught us up to speed with the outside.
Still, I'm glad that this show and Agatha finally gave Wanda her superhero name. I feel this show was quite good at further developing Wanda and Vision's relationship, which I'll admit didn't fully get until watching this show and I quite liked it. Also, my favourite scene of this episode is how emphatic Agatha is about it being MAGIC to Wanda, I was like 'Exactly, Agatha, exactly!", and also the White Vision vs Red philosophical debate fight which was something different and interesting.
Did anyone else hate the line "They'll never know what you gave up for them".
I felt it was put in there so that we don't villainize Wanda so much. But it wasn't needed. It would be much stronger that we decide for ourselves if she could be forgiven for what she did or not. We did just watch her struggle for 9 episodes.
I mean, the line itself is the very definition of Stockholm syndrome. It's kind of like, who cares? "I was abused, but it was for a good reason."
Did anyone else hate the line "They'll never know what you gave up for them".
I felt it was put in there so that we don't villainize Wanda so much. But it wasn't needed. It would be much stronger that we decide for ourselves if she could be forgiven for what she did or not. We did just watch her struggle for 9 episodes.
I mean, the line itself is the very definition of Stockholm syndrome. It's kind of like, who cares? "I was abused, but it was for a good reason."
Schaeffer and her team crafted a lot of great lines for the series. But that wasn't one of them. Monica's line made it seem like this was some gift to the former meat puppets instead of Wanda deciding on her own it was time to move on. Given what Wanda put the town through, I think it would have worked better if they edited out the "for them".
From Monica's perspective, it makes sense. She was probably thinking at the time if she would have done the same thing and watched her mom die as the Hex came down. That can't be an easy decision.
Maybe Monica's line is a subtle reference to Captain Marvel 2 and also the period between the Snap and the Blip where her mother died. Of course, we don't quite get the reference yet. But maybe she feels that she gave up a lot too and even felt abandoned by Carol Danvers. So her line isn't just addressed to Wanda (although as the audience that's the only way we can perceive it at the moment) but also something she's half saying to her own situation.
And maybe it's also designed to make Monica a flawed hero who would grapple with very human feelings when it comes to grief rather than being self righteous and judging Wanda. As Monica said, she would've done exactly the same thing if in Wanda's shoes, and maybe she really meant that, given her loss.
And maybe it's also designed to make Monica a flawed hero who would grapple with very human feelings when it comes to grief rather than being self righteous and judging Wanda. As Monica said, she would've done exactly the same thing if in Wanda's shoes, and maybe she really meant that, given her loss.
It's not what the line meant but that it didn't feel organic for Monica to say that it at that moment. We don't need the show to tell us, "don't judge Wanda". It felt very pedantic and most definitely a studio note. We can get that on our own in that moment.
It lost a lot of its power for me as it would be more powerful having the judging and hurt looks of the townspeople but the understanding look of Monica and Wanda feeling shamed. It should have stayed wordless. Instead we get, "I don't think the audience will get this, let's tell them to soften the blow!" note.
The line didn't really bother me. Wanda had been through a lot and helped save the world. Monica had empathy for her probably having done the same if she was in her shoes.
Honestly my favorite line has to be "Boys, handle the military"
Go you super powered 11 year olds who've never been in a fight and are in no way bullet proof. Take care of a well trained militia that already has you surrounded and guns aimed at you.
Now I get it, their powers give them a huge edge, it was just funny how much confidence she said it with, and left them without a second thought.
Did anyone else hate the line "They'll never know what you gave up for them".
I felt it was put in there so that we don't villainize Wanda so much. But it wasn't needed. It would be much stronger that we decide for ourselves if she could be forgiven for what she did or not. We did just watch her struggle for 9 episodes.
I mean, the line itself is the very definition of Stockholm syndrome. It's kind of like, who cares? "I was abused, but it was for a good reason."
Yeah, they should have let the AUDIENCES draw their own moral conclusions for what happened in Westview instead of having Wanda's main cheerleader tell us what a great person she was after enslaving the people inside the Hex. I thought those words were not necessary.
There were so many good parts. I loved the moment with Wanda, Vision, and the twins all standing together in battle ready stances. So good. "You were literally made for this." It felt so intimidating. I love what Olsen did with her accent, throughout the entire series, but this episode really showed it in a great light.
Vision settling his battle with White Vision due to discussion was great. The modulation used on White Vision's voice was perfectly unsettling, and you could almost literally see the gears in his head turning as he contemplated the thought experiment. A great way to end that conflict.
As for what really brought us to tears...warning, this next part contains mentions of personal tragedy and loss for me and my fiancée.
Wanda deciding to end the Hex made us weep. She willingly gave up her husband and kids. My fiancée and I lost our daughter last year, near the end of the pregnancy. She would have been 9 months old now. We both looked at each other when Wanda was saying goodbye to them and we said "If it were me, sorry Westview." We both would continue with the hex and keep our lost loved ones around. Maybe that makes us villains, I don't know.
The pain and grief that Wanda went through this series, I could feel it. I don't blame her for what she did. It doesn't make it right, okay, or justifiable. I don't believe there's any reason to justify subjugating people. But I get why she did it. Her pain was very relatable, and honestly, being able to end the hex probably makes her a stronger person then my fiancée and I.
I hope the rest of the Disney+ series are as good as this one. I'm really looking forward to Falcon and Winter Soldier. I don't know if I'll end up having such a personal connection though, and this series really set the bar very high for the rest of them. I know it was only meant for one season, and that Wanda will be the Multiverse of Madness, but I hope we get to see more of Vision, white Vision or otherwise.
It might have been interesting if Wanda went full witch in the last Westview scene.
"Anyone here wanna take a shot at the Scarlet Frikkin' Witch? No? I didn't think so. You bit**es better put your googly eyes back in your damn heads and walk the eff away. If you keep pi**ing me off I'm gonna go all Sokovia on your a**es and dump this shi**ole into the Atlantic."
For better or worse, there's a segment of the audience that craves cameos and crossovers. Because of that common knowledge, were you already prepared for the reaction to Ralph (Evan Peters)?
It was one of the few things in developing the show that my agenda — with regard to casting Evan — had to do with the fans. In my experience at Marvel, most of my motivation is about the work or working in concert with the producer, and with Kevin Feige. And then, working within that system and trying to check the boxes that need to be checked while still telling compelling, authentic stories with women usually centered. So that's usually my priority, but with the Evan casting, it was twofold. It seemed like the cherry on top of this very meta story. The only other thing that's more meta than that is I think Wanda Maximoff is the one who crashed the Disney+ server. (Laughs.) There's some sort of bleeding out from fiction to reality there because crashing Disney+ just seems like something she would do. But I didn't want [the Evan Peters casting] to be a gimmick. What we wanted for Wanda was that it would be a gut punch. She would see this person, know immediately that he's supposed to be her brother, but also know that something is off. But she would doubt herself so thoroughly that she would go along with it. And I felt that the only way the audience could go on that journey with her — and also feel the exact same gut punch and euphoric thrill — is if it was Evan. That's a meta piece that I feel served our story. So I was really looking forward to people losing their minds, but that is how I saw it integrating into the story.
Hawkeye actually killed people. Over the course of 5 years. Because of his grief. Rhodey and Nat feeling disturbed by it doesn't really mean **** because he faced no repercussions for it. Offering to die for what he did was pretty much the least he could do.
Rhodey and Nat both killed or sanctioned/authorized killing in the military. So them having an understanding of what it means to murder is exactly the point of them both not condemning Clint but also not being okay with it meant.
All those people in Westview have grief and trauma, too. That doesn't mean they wouldn't understand her trauma but it also means they can still condemn her actions. "They wouldn't understand your sacrifice" comes across as a tone deaf.....your grief was more important.
Wanda grieved for a week. No one died and she went into exile afterwards. I'm more on her side than Clint's. It's not this nonsensical girls gone wild. She was grieving. I don't believe Wanda creating a Hex that was completely unintentional out of her grief needs to be punished. Not when the Hulk and Clint walk around without issues.
I feel like Wanda acknowledged her "poor" choices by letting the people go (while watching her family disintegrate) and going into exile. That's good enough for me.
She had a choice to stop lying and end the hex way before that. The unintentional creation doesn't bely that. She was ready to kill Stark for his unintentional missiles even after he'd reformed. If we can all agree that she has a reason to be angry, then we can see how the Westview citizens deserve to confront their abuser.
For a series about grief..having your poor choices absolved because of it is bad messaging.
The hex had become unstable and was falling apart. Vision had tried to escape and she was in a depression. She would have slammed Monica into the ground if she didn't have powers.Only when confronted to the point she couldn't ignore did she stop it. She wasn't being some altruistic Avenger. She got caught in her own web of lies.
I would have respected it more it she just bounced and went away in shame instead of teasing the citizens by walking past them and Monica's terrible "they don't get it" speech. She could have just used her telepathy to apologize at once everyone.
Rhodey and Nat both killed or sanctioned/authorized killing in the military. So them having an understanding of what it means to murder is exactly the point of them both not condemning Clint but also not being okay with it meant.
All those people in Westview have grief and trauma, too. That doesn't mean they wouldn't understand her trauma but it also means they can still condemn her actions. "They wouldn't understand your sacrifice" comes across as a tone deaf.....your grief was more important.
She had a choice to stop lying and end the hex way before that. The unintentional creation doesn't bely that. She was ready to kill Stark for his unintentional missiles even after he'd reformed. If we can all agree that she has a reason to be angry, then we can see how the Westview citizens deserve to confront their abuser.
The hex had become unstable and was falling apart. Vision had tried to escape and she was in a depression. She would have slammed Monica into the ground if she didn't have powers.Only when confronted to the point she couldn't ignore did she stop it. She wasn't being some altruistic Avenger. She got caught in her own web of lies.
I would have respected it more it she just bounced and went away in shame instead of teasing the citizens by walking past them and Monica's terrible "they don't get it" speech. She could have just used her telepathy to apologize at once everyone.
I think you're way off base for Wanda's actions. She didn't get caught in a web of lies. Vision told her something was up, they argued, Pietro showed up and reassured her everything was okay, her powers started to go haywire, Agatha intervened when Monica was getting through to her and then Agatha kidnapped her. This happened over a week. I'd say she acted pretty quickly once **** hit the fan. She gave up her family.
I just think it's weird to characterize Wanda's actions as girls gone wild or a web of lies. Feels very dramatic for no reason.
The finale obviously had a much bigger feel to it than the other episodes. Yet, the writing crippled it.
Wrapping up one of the most hyped and talked about cameos by reducing it to a "bohner joke? Was Michael Bay in the writers room for this?
Once again the MCU hamstrings Vision to bland fighting, then cutting away and hiding him for long periods of time
How the hell is White Vision able to fly and shoot beams without the Mind Stone? Furthermore how did S.W.O.R.D. dismember him given that he's made of Vibranrium?
Monica Rambeau's comment that the town didn't know what she sacrificed for them is next level absurdity. Wanda was the reason they were all subjugated and many of their children locked up for large stretches. Wanda's losses weren't even real to begin with - she manifested them out of thin air.
Kat Dennings plays an integral role the entire series, but in the finale is reduced to a 20 second cameo slamming the truck into the S.W.O.R.D. director's vehicle to stop him from getting away..
I struggled to like very much of anything with this show. Episode 7, Evan Peters, and traveling thru Wanda's past was about it. I felt the concept was very unique, but execution left so much to be desired. It's one thing to pay homage to popular sitcoms (I grew upon them), but it's another to remain in them for too long. That's not why I watch these characters. It's also quite possible corny witch craft just isn't my thing.
I think you're way off base for Wanda's actions. She didn't get caught in a web of lies. Vision told her something was up, they argued, Pietro showed up and reassured her everything was okay, her powers started to to haywire and then Agatha kidnapped her. This happened over a week. I'd say she acted pretty quickly once **** hit the fan.
Who rewound Vision and the beekeeper in episode 2? Who lied about what happened to Monica in ep 3? Who choked out Mr. Hart in ep1?
Her powers went haywire in episode 1. That's how this all started. The townspeople were a lie. That wasn't Norm. That wasn't Geraldine. That wasn't Vision's life. The spell was "broken."
That was the uglier, deeper undertone of the series. The reason Vision's job didn't do anything was because his happiness wasn't important apart from how it fit the storyline. Which is also why he became suspicious. The same reason there were no kids until it became important to gaslight what Vision was accusing her of.
Who rewound Vision and the beekeeper in episode 2? Who lied about what happened to Monica in ep 3? Who choked out Mr. Hart in ep1?
Her powers went haywire in episode 1. That's how this all started. The townspeople were a lie. That wasn't Norm. That wasn't Geraldine. That wasn't Vision's life. The spell was "broken."
That was the uglier, deeper undertone of the series. The reason Vision's job didn't do anything was because his happiness wasn't important apart from how it fit the storyline. Which is also why he became suspicious. The same reason there were no kids until it became important to gaslight what Vision was accusing her of.
I would argue that Wanda didn't even know what was real when the whole thing started. Again, one minute she's crying and the next she's married to Vision in a sitcom. That would be super confusing. She had control over certain aspects (like rewinding the beekeeper), but I doubt she thought it was harmful. She remade the town in her image to make it a happy home.
And again, this was over a week. It happened very fast, including her giving up her family and happiness.
The finale obviously had a much bigger feel to it than the other episodes. Yet, the writing crippled it.
Wrapping up one of the most hyped and talked about cameos by reducing it to a "bohner joke? Was Michael Bay in the writers room for this?
Once again the MCU hamstrings Vision to bland fighting, then cutting away and hiding him for long periods of time
How the hell is White Vision able to fly and shoot beams without the Mind Stone? Furthermore how did S.W.O.R.D. dismember him given that he's made of Vibranrium?
Monica Rambeau's comment that the town didn't know what she sacrificed for them is next level absurdity. Wanda was the reason they were all subjugated and many of their children locked up for large stretches. Wanda's losses weren't even real to begin with - she manifested them out of thin air.
Kat Dennings plays an integral role the entire series, but in the finale is reduced to a 20 second cameo slamming the truck into the S.W.O.R.D. director's vehicle to stop him from getting away..
I struggled to like very much of anything with this show. Episode 7, Evan Peters, and traveling thru Wanda's past was about it. I felt the concept was very unique, but execution left so much to be desired. It's one thing to pay homage to popular sitcoms (I grew upon them), but it's another to remain in them for too long. That's not why I watch these characters. It's also quite possible corny witch craft just isn't my thing.
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