Which movie has the most Bat screen time?

[GothamAlleys]

We're going in circles then. Again, it was a different type of approach and storytelling. Going by your thinking Dracula story shouldve been called 'Harker' and Phantom of the Opera shouldve been called 'Christine' . Batman in Burton's movies int the main character of the story, we see him through the eyes of others and since hes suppose to be a dark and gothic character, we see him only occasionally and know very little about him. Thats not wrong. Its different. But since we're going in circles and you insist that despite Burton's movies being a Gothic tale its still wrong , then I dont see a point in continuing and repeating the same arguments. And by Gothic story I dont mean a dark story with Gothic designs. A Gothic story is actually a type of storytelling in literature which is based on mystery and unknown. That type of storytelling requires a mystical, dark shadow (see Dracula, Phantom) and Batman was that character. And those characters are never the main characters in the story despite being the title characters. Theyre almost like spooks. And since I like Batman as a dark mystical figure, I thoroughly enjoyed Burton's Gothic version of the character.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Unless it's someone dressing up for Halloween or a costume party, there is no such thing as a "normal man" Batman. It's not "normal" to dress up as a bat to do anything.

By normal I mean a real character in the sense that hes a real life person. He doesnt have any mystery to him, hes not half psycho, he doesnt have split personality etc. When we see him out of the costume what we see is what we get. He jokes a lot with Alfred and isnt much different than an eager and incorruptible detective with big temper. So thats what I meant by normal.
As for dressing up in Bat costume, I dont see it as anything that extreme. I mean, the outfit itself is simply an armor that he would wear anyway and the cape helps him land and glide. The mask is like a protective helmet so the only unusual thing is the logo and bat ears. What I mean is that its not like its some nut who dresses up as a flying mouse. Its a highly trained ninja in a military armor taking up personal mission.

And of course if someone somehow reads it as a knock, its absolutely not. Im starting to see that people cant grasp the idea that one can like both Nolan's and Burton's take more or less equally. I feel sometimes like Im being forced to take sides

 

[The Joker]

Im starting to see that people cant grasp the idea that one can like both Nolan's and Burton's take more or less equally. I feel sometimes like Im being forced to take sides

Batman fanboys are harsh creatures sometimes. I enjoy both. I prefer Nolan's take, but Burton's is still great.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Fortunately so far I see this section of SHH as a very friendly place

 

[AllyBabble]

We're going in circles then. Again, it was a different type of approach and storytelling. Going by your thinking Dracula story shouldve been called 'Harker' and Phantom of the Opera shouldve been called 'Christine' . Batman in Burton's movies int the main character of the story, we see him through the eyes of others and since hes suppose to be a dark and gothic character, we see him only occasionally and know very little about him. Thats not wrong. Its different. But since we're going in circles and you insist that despite Burton's movies being a Gothic tale its still wrong , then I dont see a point in continuing and repeating the same arguments. And by Gothic story I dont mean a dark story with Gothic designs. A Gothic story is actually a type of storytelling in literature which is based on mystery and unknown. That type of storytelling requires a mystical, dark shadow (see Dracula, Phantom) and Batman was that character. And those characters are never the main characters in the story despite being the title characters. Theyre almost like spooks. And since I like Batman as a dark mystical figure, I thoroughly enjoyed Burton's Gothic version of the character.

Yeah, I got what you have been saying, but coming at the movie from the perspective of someone who was expecting an adaptation of the comics, it was not the approach I felt best served the character at all. Batman comics are not like that, he is the lead character throughout the story and there in force.

and dude, i did not mean to bite your head off, but i just got tired of you bringing up the dialogue thing for the umpteenth time, when that is not what I was talking about or arguing for an increase of, and in fact agreed with you that sparse but effective dialogue is best for Batman.
So, sorry if i was a bit harsh back there, i just did not know why you kept answering me with that pov about dialogue, and i did say that you may have been unconciously changing the goalposts of the debate, as opposed to it being deliberate. So there is some hope for me right?

I have watched those movies literally hundreds of times and got a lot of enjoyment out of them, I just don't think they served the potential of the character onscreen with that 'less is more' approach.

oh, and i am watching Diamonds are forever on the tv right now, and that chick who dances with Batman at the nightclub , Molly, just showed up onscreen.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Well if you expected/wanted comic adaptation of the character than I understand. I really dont care about source accuracy only quality, but I think its pretty safe to say that personality wise Bale nails the comic Batman.

 

[Elevator Man]

Yeah, I got what you have been saying, but coming at the movie from the perspective of someone who was expecting an adaptation of the comics, it was not the approach I felt best served the character at all. Batman comics are not like that, he is the lead character throughout the story and there in force.

and dude, i did not mean to bite your head off, but i just got tired of you bringing up the dialogue thing for the umpteenth time, when that is not what I was talking about or arguing for an increase of, and in fact agreed with you that sparse but effective dialogue is best for Batman.
So, sorry if i was a bit harsh back there, i just did not know why you kept answering me with that pov about dialogue, and i did say that you may have been unconciously changing the goalposts of the debate, as opposed to it being deliberate. So there is some hope for me right?

I have watched those movies literally hundreds of times and got a lot of enjoyment out of them, I just don't think they served the potential of the character onscreen with that 'less is more' approach.

oh, and i am watching Diamonds are forever on the tv right now, and that chick who dances with Batman at the nightclub , Molly, just showed up onscreen.

There have been some comics where Batman isn't the lead character in his own comics. The only one I can think of right now is "Gotham Underground" . That arc is more of an ensemble piece than it is about Batman. Batman was incognito (Matches Malone) and locked up in prison most of the story. Batman finally showed up in the last two issues I believe. Not that it bothered me b/c I think the villains and supporting characters are just as interesting as Batnan, imo anyways. If I was the opposite I wouldn't even bother with the Dick Grayson/ Batman and Damien/Robin story arc that's currently going on.

All you really care about is Batman/Bruce Wayne. What about the supporting characters and the villains ? Which I believe gave BETTER performances than Bale did in TDK. Bale was just an action figure in TDK ,imo.

BTW, that scene where Gordon and Bale at the end of BB was the only scene I liked from it.

 

[Bat-Mite]

By normal I mean a real character in the sense that hes a real life person. He doesnt have any mystery to him, hes not half psycho, he doesnt have split personality etc.

The way I see it, Keaton's Bruce Wayne is more of a Norman Bates type, so you do see early on that something isn't quite right with him, even if you can't put your finger on it. Bale's Wayne is more of a Hannibal Lecter type, where you would have no reason to believe he's crazy unless you knew what he was capable of. Yeah, a lot of the mystery is removed from Bale's character because we see more of him, but if we saw more of Keaton's character, I'm sure the same thing could be said, even though Keaton's Wayne wears his neurosis on his sleeve. Hell, one of the reasons Bale was chosen for the role in the first place was his role in American Psycho.

As for the multiple personality thing, Bale said he thinks his version of Batman has three personalities (1:17 in the video below):

When we see him out of the costume what we see is what we get. He jokes a lot with Alfred and isnt much different than an eager and incorruptible detective with big temper. So thats what I meant by normal.

Keaton's Bruce/Batman joked with Alfred, Selina, and Vicki (such as the comment about her weight). That's just part of the character. But I thought we got to see a great, if brief, glimpse of the real person in the penthouse scene in TDK. Bruce knows the Joker is coming, so he knocks out Harvey Dent, then tells Rachel (in his Batman voice, no less) that Joker and his men are coming for Dent. After dragging Dent to safety, he gets attacked by a Joker goon. After quickly taking the goon down, he destroys his shotgun, tosses it to the floor, then calmly and steely-eyed marches towards the "panic room" as if it's a routine he does every day on his way to work. All of this is done out of costume.

And of course if someone somehow reads it as a knock, its absolutely not. Im starting to see that people cant grasp the idea that one can like both Nolan's and Burton's take more or less equally. I feel sometimes like Im being forced to take sides

Uuuh... thanks for that. After TDK, Batman Returns is my favorite live action Batman movie, so I'm quite aware that you can like both visions equally. I've been a huge Burton fan ever since I saw Beetlejuice for the first time as a kid. My issue with your comment is that I think it's silly to call either version "normal", since, even out of costume, neither really fit the definition.

Also, Schumacher owns both Nolan and Burton. Yeah, I said it.

 

[Cain]

Batman fanboys are harsh creatures sometimes. I enjoy both. I prefer Nolan's take, but Burton's is still great.

Same here; though Batman Returns was my favorite overall of all the movies so far. I prefer the way Nolan makes it a more balanced ensemble piece giving Gordon and Lucius meaty roles for example. To be very honest though I really don't consider any of the movies all that important.

I enjoy them all as a fan of the character & a fan of cinema. It's great to see how the themes from the comics are reinterpreted to fit the context of the cinematic language. At the same time; I could never say I prefer any of them to the comic books, because I really don't. I barely rewatch the movies once they're out of theaters. I think the first Burton one is the one I've watched the most since mainly back when I was a kid I used to watch it like 3 times a day. As an adult though I always peer through back issues with much greater frequency than I rewatch the flicks.

When it comes to superheroes I just prefer them in their original medium than confined by the laws of cinema. Speaking of; it always baffles me how many people on this site DON'T know what the definition of the word adaptation is.

 

[Elevator Man]

The way I see it, Keaton's Bruce Wayne is more of a Norman Bates type, so you do see early on that something isn't quite right with him, even if you can't put your finger on it. Bale's Wayne is more of a Hannibal Lecter type, where you would have no reason to believe he's crazy unless you knew what he was capable of. Yeah, a lot of the mystery is removed from Bale's character because we see more of him, but if we saw more of Keaton's character, I'm sure the same thing could be said, even though Keaton's Wayne wears his neurosis on his sleeve. Hell, one of the reasons Bale was chosen for the role in the first place was his role in American Psycho.

As for the multiple personality thing, Bale said he thinks his version of Batman has three personalities (1:17 in the video below):
Keaton's Bruce/Batman joked with Alfred, Selina, and Vicki (such as the comment about her weight). That's just part of the character. But I thought we got to see a great, if brief, glimpse of the real person in the penthouse scene in TDK. Bruce knows the Joker is coming, so he knocks out Harvey Dent, then tells Rachel (in his Batman voice, no less) that Joker and his men are coming for Dent. After dragging Dent to safety, he gets attacked by a Joker goon. After quickly taking the goon down, he destroys his shotgun, tosses it to the floor, then calmly and steely-eyed marches towards the "panic room" as if it's a routine he does every day on his way to work. All of this is done out of costume. Uuuh... thanks for that. After TDK, Batman Returns is my favorite live action Batman movie, so I'm quite aware that you can like both visions equally. I've been a huge Burton fan ever since I saw Beetlejuice for the first time as a kid. My issue with your comment is that I think it's silly to call either version "normal", since, even out of costume, neither really fit the definition.

Also, Schumacher owns both Nolan and Burton. Yeah, I said it.

Yeah that is a good scene with Bale. You hit the nail on the head on how you described that scene . With that said how did Bale know the Joker was coming ? I never could put my finger on how he knew Dent was in danger. The judge and Comm. Loeb were all getting killed simutaneously as Bale put Dent to sleep and safety. So how did Bale know the Joker was coming for Dent ?

 

[Travesty]

With that said how did Bale know the Joker was coming ? I never could put my finger on how he knew Dent was in danger. The judge and Comm. Loeb were all getting killed simutaneously as Bale put Dent to sleep and safety. So how did Bale know the Joker was coming for Dent ?

I was just about to say, "because he has a camera in the elevator", but you mean specifically how was Bruce aware that Dent was the hit. And that's a damn good question, because the "Harvey Dent" clue was after the Penthouse scene. Hmmmm......

 

[Bat-Mite]

It's kind of odd, because in the script, the Joker has already arrived by the time Bruce tugs Dent away. But yeah, I always just assumed he saw Joker and his bunch coming on a surveillance camera. As for how he knew Harvey was the target, Dent's DNA was on the Joker card. I don't know how he would've come across that information, though.

 

[AllyBabble]

It was a bash to raise money for Harevey, Harvey is the man taking on the underworld, of course the Joker would be after him specifically. and yeah, i too guess that Wayne would be easily aware of a breach in security being the paranoid Batman and all, having alarms and cameras everywhere.

Cain: Yeah, I know what adaptation means, i let that slip by and felt it, what i meant was unfaithful to the source material to such an extent i was disapointed in the film.

 

[Elevator Man]

It was a bash to raise money for Harevey, Harvey is the man taking on the underworld, of course the Joker would be after him specifically. and yeah, i too guess that Wayne would be easily aware of a breach in security being the paranoid Batman and all, having alarms and cameras everywhere.

Cain: Yeah, I know what adaptation means, i let that slip by and felt it, what i meant was unfaithful to the source material to such an extent i was disapointed in the film.

So basically you're trying to say is that Wayne used Dent as bait for the Joker to show up. When I'm pretty sure he didn't know Joker was going to show up for Dent or show up at all for that matter. If you believe that then Bruce really doesn't believe in Harvey Dent. He only made this fundraiser for Dent so the Joker could make his move ? So he could catch him ? In which he failed to do b/c he had to save Rachel. Bruce just knew Dent was a target eventhough I don't believe he knew Dent , Loeb, or the Judge was in any danger ? So you didn't explain anything. You just made an assumption. And You know what they say about assumptions ?

Another thing I noticed was how did the Joker escaped the penthouse before Batman and the police were able to sweep the area. That's a tall building . Joker came through the elevator with the help of that "dirty" cop Wuertz. Maybe he used Wuertz to cover his tracks when he escaped.

That amazes me that Batman couldn't do anything especially after Rachel delivered that corny line and asked if Dent was fine. He responded "He's safe". He should've automatically left after that and try to track down Joker. That suit should've protected him from any injuries. He looked like he wasn't injured.

Should've been a scene where they explained how the joker escaped the penthouse. Theres no way he used the elevator b/c Batman would be waiting for him down there. Doubtful the penthouse had any stairs.
So Batman is psychic or has a premnition about Dent whereas the Joker could teleport or be invisible.

Not trying to knock TDK either. Just that should've been explained in the scene after. Instead the scene after shows Gordon and that other cop talking about Lao and how nobody was going to testify b/c of cops and judges dying left and right etc.. But no mention of how the Joker escaped. Then the scene after that has Batman and Alfred talking about the kind of character Joker is. Once again not how wnd why he couldn't track him down after that penthouse incident.

So I guess Nolan and co. just want us to think he's the joker that's how he escaped. The same for when batman knew Dent was in danger. He's Batman that's how he knows.

Again it's not a big deal just a minor quibble that I don't like b/c Nolan and co. want us to make our own assumptions ( which isn't much to go off of ) and to just go with it.

 

[AllyBabble]

So basically you're trying to say is that Wayne used Dent as bait for the Joker to show up. When I'm pretty sure he didn't know Joker was going to show up for Dent or show up at all for that matter. If you believe that then Bruce really doesn't believe in Harvey Dent. He only made this fundraiser for Dent so the Joker could make his move ? So he could catch him ? In which he failed to do b/c he had to save Rachel. Bruce just knew Dent was a target eventhough I don't believe he knew Dent , Loeb, or the Judge was in any danger ? So you didn't explain anything. You just made an assumption. And You know what they say about assumptions ?

So everyone should stop what they are doing because the Joker has made some threats? Wayne planned the bash before the Joker made his threats, he proabbly would have thought there was a possibility of an attack, but did not want to stop the bash so not as to show any weakness to this newbie madman, and knew he could take care of things if he was to show up and threaten Harvey.

and as for the rest of your post...i can't be arsed, you seem to have a real hard on for coming in and making some real dim-witted observations in response to my posts, I know your type, and your dimness is matched only by the size of your ego, your just trying to make a name for yourself, and meanwhile I am getting bored to death of responding to you. So there's no assumptions for you to make there Sherlock, you can take that plain as fact post to the bank and cash it in, because I don't have any respect for your observations or posting manner, and won't be indulging you any more, so go stalk someone else sweet charlie.

 

[Elevator Man]

So everyone should stop what they are doing because the Joker has made some threats? Wayne planned the bash before the Joker made his threats, he proabbly would have thought there was a possibility of an attack, but did not want to stop the bash so not as to show any weakness to this newbie madman, and knew he could take care of things if he was to show up and threaten Harvey.

and as for the rest of your post...i can't be arsed, you seem to have a real hard on for coming in and making some real dim-witted observations in response to my posts, I know your type, and your dimness is matched only by the size of your ego, your just trying to make a name for yourself, and meanwhile I am getting bored to death of responding to you. So there's no assumptions for you to make there Sherlock, you can take that plain as fact post to the bank and cash it in, because I don't have any respect for your observations or posting manner, and won't be indulging you any more, so go stalk someone else sweet charlie.

First off I'm not stalking you. I was respondiing to Bat-Mite about how he described Bales BW performance in that penthouse scene. Then I asked him a simple quetion, which you even responded to ,about how Wayne knew Dent was in danger ? I was only responding to your post b/c your lazy assumption ( imo anyways) of how Bruce knew Dent was in danger.

I wasn't saying Wayne should stop the bash b/c of the Joker's threat. I was explaining what your comment sounded like. It sounded like you were saying Wayne used that fundraiser/party to lure the Joker there b/c he knew he was after Dent, when there was no proof that Batman knew the Joker was going to show up. And to show up for Dent no less.

That's cool you don't wantto respond to me ever again. It's your right. I could care less. Some advice though. Don't respond to my posts then when I'm not directing a question or comment to you. Then we wouldn't be having this argument right now. So enjoy yourself and hope you enjoy acting immature at other people's threads.

 

[AllyBabble]

That's cool you don't wantto respond to me ever again. It's your right. I could care less. Some advice though. Don't respond to my posts then when I'm not directing a question or comment to you. Then we wouldn't be having this argument right now. So enjoy yourself and hope you enjoy acting immature at other people's threads.

listen baby-man, you are the one who has insulted me not only on this thread but carried the same bs over to the spider-man forums too, because you could not gather up a logical response over here, you insulted me and took the very same insult over there out of context that i had refuted here.
So pardon me if i call it like it is and try to point out some negative character traits you might want to take care of.
Even despite being insulted by you twice, i responded to this post of yours with a fairly simple observation that was blindingly obvious, and you take it and try to make a mountain out of a molehill with it, twisting and turning a simple point to the point that your observation became very bizarre, and why? because you can't seem to handle the honour of conceding a point during a debate.
That's why I can't be arsed responding to you, it's pointless to debate with you, I gave you another chance there by responding respectfully to your point, and you have again avoided my point with bs bizarre gymnastics.
forget about it man, you're no fun to debate with.

 

[redfirebird2008]

How do you know an origin movie done by Burton would have been a huge success?

How do I know it would have been a huge success? Because 50 years of the public waiting for a big budget movie for one of the Big Three superheroes is going to lead to a big success no matter what you do with it. Hell, WB crammed it down the public's throat with one of the greatest marketing campaigns in movie history, a campaign that was almost entirely based on a single Bat symbol.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I think it's a fair criticism of B89. If Burton did the Batman origin the way Nolan did it, there wouldn't have been a need for Nolan's movie. Instead, the Joker was the one who received a longer origin. The way I look at it, if Burton had done a full-blown Batman origin movie we might have avoided the Schumacher and Nolan movies altogether.

1. Burton origin movie.
2. Joker movie
3. Penguin/Catwoman movie - this cuts Schumacher out entirely, which then cuts Nolan out as well. Nolan's movies are just as good as Burton's IMHO but I'd rather get rid of Nolan's movies if it means getting rid of the Schumacher movies as well

Schumacher filming Batman would have been inevitable either ways, thus the Nolan-verse

 

[Travesty]

Batman Forever: Total running time of 122 minutes

-(Suit up) 1:16
-(Talking to Chase) 1:16
-(Two-Face fight) 4:55
-(The Batsignal is not a beeper) 2:31
-(Harvey getting scarred) 0:03
-(Batmobile chase) 2:20
-(Neon fight scene) 0:41
-(Nigma dinner fight/Two-Face trap) 2:46
-(Chase lookin hot) 1:24
-(Buttfloss/new suit) 1:18
-(He sank my battleship) 1:23
-(Holy rusted metal, Batman/end fight) 5:23
-(Running with Robin/the end) 0:20

Total: 23:30/122= 19% Bat screen time

Batman and Robin: Total running time 125 minutes

-(chicks love the car) 1:31
-(Museum/Freeze fight) 5:07
-(Auction/Bat-card) 2:23
-(chasing Freeze) 1:14
-(B&R investigate Freeze's lair) 3:19
-(Ivy's Lair) 0:47
-(Batskimobile thingy/saving Gotham) 5:46
-(All three running/the end) 0:11

Total: 19:38/125= 15% Bat screen time

 

[GothamAlleys]

Yeah, a lot of the mystery is removed from Bale's character because we see more of him, but if we saw more of Keaton's character, I'm sure the same thing could be said, even though Keaton's Wayne wears his neurosis on his sleeve.

Oh sure, absolutely! Thats why some characters work so well without origins and the one and only reason why they didnt show Batman's origins in Batman - to leave the mystique intact. I dont think Bale's Wayne is mentally disturbed in any way tho, he has a huge temper but other than that I dont see any psychosis or split personality issue or constant hurt. Only anger and determination. And of course, thats not to say its anything bad. Im just pointing out how different those two takes are

Keaton's Bruce/Batman joked with Alfred, Selina, and Vicki (such as the comment about her weight). That's just part of the character.

Not to that extent tho. He gives Alfred one joking line" why wont you marry her" in Batman and completely ignores his talk about Vicky and Vicky herself with "cant think about it right now". Once stuff was going on he was dead serious. With Bale, almost every single dialogue with Alfred was joking back and forth, even in the middle of the action (the pushup line). Same goes for Wayne and Fox. It didnt bother me the least until late in TDK after Rachel's death when not only Rachel is recently deceased, but an entire city is in chaos and yet we get the Lamborghini joke and the ever present grin. I thought considering the situation and what just happened and what was going on, that was too much

 

[ALP]

I must admit I find it quite interesting but not that surprising that we only get a handful of minutes of Batman in costume scattered throughout all of the films. There's very little instance of 15-25 straight minutes of Batman in costume in any of the films.

 

[truth]

How you managed that feat is beyond me.

DEDICATION

 

[Ponyboy]

haha I was just thinking the same thing. Travesty, your "username" doesn't fit you.

 

[Travesty]

haha I was just thinking the same thing. Travesty, your "username" doesn't fit you.

Ha, I think it does. My real name is Travis, and my last name starts with a "T".

Travis T= Travesty