The Amazing Spider-Man Why do people think this movie was dark?

[Doctor Octopus]

If by dark you mean s**t, then that's because it's terrible.

Agreed.

 

[Spider-knight]

really, the movie isn't even that dark nor on par with nolan or batman and just because spiderman takes place at night doesn't make him like batman. it's just the settings in the story.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

People don't like Spider-Man predominantly dark.

It was?

Or are you talking about the daylight?

 

[GuestStar2004]

The film being set at night was probably well suited because of the stuff that was happening in I and the final battle is always set at night

They could have pretty much kept the tone and still gone lighter so I think someone took the criticism to far

 

[Spider-knight]

I really don't see how this movie was trying to be dark. Infact I believe it has the sane tone as winter soldier

 

[Doctor Octopus]

lol Winter Soldier was dark. One of the darkest Marvel movies.

 

[OriginalMiles]

I wouldn't say it was dark, but serious instead. Same with TASM, I guess

 

[Spider-knight]

yeah, i see nothing that makes it nolan. i mean the movie seems to borrow USM the comic's tone

 

[Doctor Octopus]

It does not. USM was never this grim and gritty.

 

[OcStat]

It does not. USM was never this grim and gritty.

It did have it's darker arcs though, Clone Saga, Hobgoblin, among others. I fail to see what makes this movie grim or gritty, I mean, I can see why people might think so, but I don't consider it that way myself. Seems to me the tone is about on par with any number of Spider-Man books published in the last 20 to 30 years. Not all are depressingly dark, not all are super lighthearted, but most fall somewhere in the middle.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

It did have it's darker arcs though, Clone Saga, Hobgoblin, among others. I fail to see what makes this movie grim or gritty, I mean, I can see why people might think so, but I don't consider it that way myself. Seems to me the tone is about on par with any number of Spider-Man books published in the last 20 to 30 years. Not all are depressingly dark, not all are super lighthearted, but most fall somewhere in the middle.

I know serious Batman has had some light hearted stories, too, but that does not mean the Batman movies should be light hearted in tone. They can have light hearted moments, just like the Spider-Man movies should have dark moments. But the whole movie shouldn't feel grim and depressing. TASM did.

Btw Clone Saga is considered one of the worst parts of the 90's for Spider-Man comics.

 

[LizardMan07]

"Whole movie"

There were plenty of moments in tasm that weren't dark

Dark is say, the joker killing people or a movie about a schizophrenic killing themselves after years of mental torture.

TWS and TASM weren't dark, but more grounded and serious.

Regardless, you changed the goalposts with poor old ocstat. He gave you examples of story's that were "dark" after you said USM never was and then you follow that up by redefining them as "moments' and not overall stories.

Felt sorry for the guy. Hard to argue when the argument gets shifted like that

 

[OcStat]

I know serious Batman has had some light hearted stories, too, but that does not mean the Batman movies should be light hearted in tone. They can have light hearted moments, just like the Spider-Man movies should have dark moments. But the whole movie shouldn't feel grim and depressing. TASM did.

Btw Clone Saga is considered one of the worst parts of the 90's for Spider-Man comics.

I was referring to those stories in Ultimate Spider-Man, in regards to your reply to Spider-Knight. Way to not sound condescending though!

Still, I don't see how this entire movie was depressing. You've said it felt that way to you but not how. I can't recall anyone saying why or how actually. Besides it having a darker color palette, I just don't see it. The narrative itself isn't any darker than the previous movies.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

I was referring to those stories in Ultimate Spider-Man, in regards to your reply to Spider-Knight. Way to not sound condescending though!

Still, I don't see how this entire movie was depressing. You've said it felt that way to you but not how. I can't recall anyone saying why or how actually. Besides it having a darker color palette, I just don't see it. The narrative itself isn't any darker than the previous movies.

Sorry I didn't realize. I was not being condescending. Don't act over sensitive for no reason.

I didn't call the whole movie depressing. I said it was too grim and gritty. USM is not. And neither are the 616 Spider-Man comics either.

The movie's story was too grim. It opens with Peter's parents leaving him, then Peter having a bad school life, nearly all his scenes with Uncle Ben are ones where Uncle Ben is chastising him for something, then Uncle Ben dying, Peter's hunt for Uncle Ben's killer, then Connors downfall into the Lizard, Peter feels responsible for creating Lizard, Captain Stacy doesn't like Peter, Gwen has to bandage up beaten and bloody Peter, Captain Stacy makes Peter promise to stay away from Gwen and then he dies, Nearly every Spider-Man scene is at night like a Batman movie, which gives the movie a whole dark feel. There's no balance. Even Peter looks miserable half the time, sitting in class with his hood up and stuff lol. Not nearly enough lighter moments to counteract all the serious stuff. I don't believe some quips make the movie lighter. Even the Nolan Batman movies had comedy moments and humour.

It's a terrible way to do a Spider-Man movie.

 

[OcStat]

Sorry I didn't realize. I was not being condescending. Don't act over sensitive for no reason.

No worries, I just read it with the wrong implication.

I didn't call the whole movie depressing. I said it was too grim and gritty. USM is not. And neither are the 616 Spider-Man comics either.

But the whole movie shouldn't feel grim and depressing. TASM did.

Just sayin'. Though "feel" doesn't equal "is" I guess, it did seem to be what you meant.

Take this into consideration though, regardless of what you think of the film's quality, you consider this one film dark yes? And regardless of what you think of ASM2, I am assuming we can agree the tone is much lighter compared to this movie. So much like the Ultimate Spider-Man series, which would have an arc/story/moment like Death of a Goblin followed by Amazing Friends, or Carnage followed by Superstars; the Amazing film franchise, as far as tone is concerned, mirrors the comics pretty accurately.

And I use the Ultimate books as a reference here due to being more familiar with the arc titles and the tone changes being readily apparent in those arcs. It is present in each of the other books as well. While Amazing Spider-Man was very gloomy a while back with Civil War and Back in Black, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man was coming out at the same time on the other end of the tonal spectrum.

The movie's story was too grim. It opens with Peter's parents leaving him, then Peter having a bad school life, nearly all his scenes with Uncle Ben are ones where Uncle Ben is chastising him for something, then Uncle Ben dying Peter's hunt for Uncle Ben's killer, then Connors downfall into the Lizard, Peter feels responsible for creating Lizard, Captain Stacy doesn't like Peter, Gwen has to bandage up beaten and bloody Peter, Captain Stacy makes Peter promise to stay away from Gwen and then he dies, Nearly every Spider-Man scene is at night like a Batman movie, which gives the movie a whole dark feel. There's no balance. Even Peter looks miserable half the time, sitting in class with his hood up and stuff lol. Not nearly enough lighter moments to counteract all the serious stuff. I don't believe some quips make the movie lighter. Even the Nolan Batman movies had comedy moments and humour.

It's a terrible way to do a Spider-Man movie.

Those things now in bold are elements that would be present in any Spider-Man movie. I get you are saying; the manner in which the scene's were presented, for example Uncle Ben's death, were darker compared to the way they were presented before. But it doesn't make it straight up dark, to me anyway. I mean, a teenager having his uncle murdered due to their own inaction is inherently "dark" subject matter.

Captain Stacy's relationship with Peter is different than the source material but here he is used to show the audience that classic Spider-Man dilemma; he wants to help but the way he is perceived is divided. And in the end Captain Stacy acknowledges he was wrong about Peter. Then he dies of course, but for a moment stop and consider 4 out 5 movies pretty much end with funerals. Gwen bandaging up a beaten Spider-Man was a neat moment that to me shows Peter's inexperience, the Lizard's formidability, and that Peter's life is actually at risk when he is out there as Spider-Man.

The biggest fight in the movie at the school was in broad daylight. Peter looks miserable half the time because he is miserable half the time, which is line with the character Peter Parker and with a teenager in general. There are moments that show he enjoys himself, and his time with his Uncle.

The lighter moments are made up of more than a few quips, there's easily more of those scenes here than in any of Nolan's Batman movies. And what makes the movie dark is nowhere near as dark as what we see in Batman.

But I get it now, this is Spider-Man and maybe the movie isn't as dark as others, but for some it is too dark for the character. I myself disagree. Spider-Man by the character's very nature can move from dark and light narratives with greater ease than any other.

PS - Thanks BRAB.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

No worries, I just read it with the wrong implication.

That's alright.

Take this into consideration though, regardless of what you think of the film's quality, you consider this one film dark yes? And regardless of what you think of ASM2, I am assuming we can agree the tone is much lighter compared to this movie. So much like the Ultimate Spider-Man series, which would have an arc/story/moment like Death of a Goblin followed by Amazing Friends, or Carnage followed by Superstars; the Amazing film franchise, as far as tone is concerned, mirrors the comics pretty accurately.

Yes I consider it dark and I think TASM2 is lighter. But because a comic book can have a dark story doesn't mean the whole title is dark toned. Just like in stories from Batman comics there can be light stories sometimes but that doesn't mean that Batman movies should be light toned. Just like Spider-Man movies should not be dark.

And I use the Ultimate books as a reference here due to being more familiar with the arc titles and the tone changes being readily apparent in those arcs. It is present in each of the other books as well. While Amazing Spider-Man was very gloomy a while back with Civil War and Back in Black, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man was coming out at the same time on the other end of the tonal spectrum.

The same fact applies to what I said before this part. They don't justify a whole movie being dark. Unless the movie is supposed to be an adaptation of one specific dark Spider-Man story, and TASM was not, it should be done in the tone the Spider-Man comics are predominantly done in. And that's not dark and gritty.

Sorry but it's just not. TASM got it wrong. Then TASM 2 got it wrong in the opposite way by making it too camp. It's like they listened to the complaints about the dark tone and went to the other extreme instead of doing the sensible thing and striking a balance.

Those things now in bold are elements that would be present in any Spider-Man movie. I get you are saying; the manner in which the scene's were presented, for example Uncle Ben's death, were darker compared to the way they were presented before. But it doesn't make it straight up dark, to me anyway. I mean, a teenager having his uncle murdered due to their own inaction is inherently "dark" subject matter.

Those elements would be also be counter balanced with more lighter moments so the whole thing does not feel dark and moody. But these things were the core of the movie and gave it a darker tone.

Even when subject matter is dark or light it doesn't make the whole movie light or dark. Like an old man who is a father figure to the hero dying of a disease would be dark subject matter, but it didn't make Batman and Robin dark lol.

Captain Stacy's relationship with Peter is different than the source material but here he is used to show the audience that classic Spider-Man dilemma; he wants to help but the way he is perceived is divided. And in the end Captain Stacy acknowledges he was wrong about Peter. Then he dies of course, but for a moment stop and consider 4 out 5 movies pretty much end with funerals. Gwen bandaging up a beaten Spider-Man was a neat moment that to me shows Peter's inexperience, the Lizard's formidability, and that Peter's life is actually at risk when he is out there as Spider-Man.

J. Jonah Jameson is the character that was created to show how Spider-Man is perceived wrongly and gets divided opinion. What's great about that is with Jonah Jameson you get that divided opinion side showing how Spider-Man can be wrong persecuted, but you also get some of that great Spider-Man comedy that help keeps the tone lighter the way it should be because Jonah is a funny guy. Captain Stacy was an unlikable jerk and his bitterness just added to the dark dull tone of this movie. It also made his death unsympathetic. Especially when his dying words are telling Peter to stay away from Gwen.

Gwen bandaging Peter doesn't show his inexperience. Alfred bandages Batman up all the time lol and he's not inexperienced. We didn't need to see that.

The biggest fight in the movie at the school was in broad daylight.

It's the only one out of all the fights. And it was in doors, too. It didn't feel like a proper open daylight fight in the city.

Peter looks miserable half the time because he is miserable half the time, which is line with the character Peter Parker and with a teenager in general. There are moments that show he enjoys himself, and his time with his Uncle.

If you're talking about in this movie then yes. But not in the comics. Peter doesn't always look miserable half the time. He doesn't do things like sit in class with his hood up looking broody even when he does feel down lol.

The lighter moments are made up of more than a few quips, there's easily more of those scenes here than in any of Nolan's Batman movies. And what makes the movie dark is nowhere near as dark as what we see in Batman.

I don't agree. The humour felt more natural in Nolan's, too. Especially with the playboy Bruce Wayne stuff. Even the darkest villain of all, the Joker, had some genuine good comedy moments like when he was dressed as a woman nurse lol.

But I get it now, this is Spider-Man and maybe the movie isn't as dark as others, but for some it is too dark for the character. I myself disagree. Spider-Man by the character's very nature can move from dark and light narratives with greater ease than any other.

Spider-Man's universe is more balanced to never feel predominantly dark like this movie was. It would only be excusable is this movie was an adaptation of one specific dark story.

 

[LizardMan07]

Ocstat has got you here Dock Ock.

I've noticed you consistently redefine the subject matter when he points out something you missed.

"There's no fights in the day"

"What about the lizard fight"

"Well, that wasn't in the CITY?!"

Also, you seem to forget that TASM and TASM2 are separate stories as well...

I'd hate to be Ocstat, its like arguing whales and getting rebutted with rocks.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Ocstat has got you here Dock Ock.

I've noticed you consistently redefine the subject matter when he points out something you missed.

"There's no fights in the day"

"What about the lizard fight"

"Well, that wasn't in the CITY?!"

Also, you seem to forget that TASM and TASM2 are separate stories as well...

I'd hate to be Ocstat, its like arguing whales and getting rebutted with rocks.

I did not redefine. I did not say there was no fights in the day. I said nearly every Spider-Man scene is at night. Nearly is not every single one.

I don't see what difference TASM and TASM 2 being different stories makes. They're still both Spider-Man movies in the same continuity and franchise. One of the complaints is how different they both feel tonally. If it were not for the same main actors they would feel like they came from different franchises.

Please stop interjecting all the time with your put down remarks BRAB. You are not Ocstat so you don't have to reply to this discussion at all. In fact neither does he if he does not want to. So stop stirring.

 

[LizardMan07]

I did not redefine. I did not say there was no fights in the day. I said nearly every Spider-Man scene is at night. Nearly is not every single one.

I don't see what difference TASM and TASM 2 being different stories makes. They're still both Spider-Man movies in the same continuity and franchise. One of the complaints is how different they both feel tonally. If it were not for the same main actors they would feel like they came from different franchises.

Please stop interjecting all the time with your put down remarks BRAB. You are not Ocstat so you don't have to reply to this discussion at all. In fact neither does he if he does not want to. So stop stirring.

In regards to your first paragraph, I find it interesting you didn't respond like that in the first time. That makes more sense then rebutting somebody because it was a fight in the day in a school. You catch my drift?

Take this into consideration though, regardless of what you think of the film's quality, you consider this one film dark yes? And regardless of what you think of ASM2, I am assuming we can agree the tone is much lighter compared to this movie. So much like the Ultimate Spider-Man series, which would have an arc/story/moment like Death of a Goblin followed by Amazing Friends, or Carnage followed by Superstars; the Amazing film franchise, as far as tone is concerned, mirrors the comics pretty accurately.

Yes I consider it dark and I think TASM2 is lighter. But because a comic book can have a dark story doesn't mean the whole title is dark toned. Just like in stories from Batman comics there can be light stories sometimes but that doesn't mean that Batman movies should be light toned. Just like Spider-Man movies should not be dark.

You don't see the logical inconsistency there? That's fine I guess... Just consider that you're basically defining one thing as a series and the other as a story, hard to quantify them when you do this.

How on earth is somebody not agreeing with you a putdown? Its a forum mate, you're more than happy for people to jump in on your conversations when people agree with you, are you upset somebody doesn't agree with you? If you want a one on one conversation, there's a PM button. You're on a public part of the forum, just like other parts of the forum where you'll happily lap up the praise from others whilst bashing TASM2. Me jumping in is the equivalant to that, the only thing different? I'm not agreeing with you, and it seems evident that's offended you.

You know what? I'm not sorry, its a forum, and I have the right to interject just as much as anyone that agrees with you mate.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

In regards to your first paragraph, I find it interesting you didn't respond like that in the first time. That makes more sense then rebutting somebody because it was a fight in the day in a school. You catch my drift?

I didn't think I needed to. I figured Ocstat read what I said and was just making a point that there was a big fight scene in day time. He didn't accuse me of saying something I didn't.

You don't see the logical inconsistency there? That's fine I guess... Just consider that you're basically defining one thing as a series and the other as a story, hard to quantify them when you do this.

How on earth is somebody not agreeing with you a putdown? Its a forum mate, you're more than happy for people to jump in on your conversations when people agree with you, are you upset somebody doesn't agree with you? If you want a one on one conversation, there's a PM button. You're on a public part of the forum, just like other parts of the forum where you'll happily lap up the praise from others whilst bashing TASM2. Me jumping in is the equivalant to that, the only thing different? I'm not agreeing with you, and it seems evident that's offended you.

You know what? I'm not sorry, its a forum, and I have the right to interject just as much as anyone that agrees with you mate.

No I don't see the inconsistency because movies are a representation of the source material as a whole unless they are an adaptation of one specific story and TASM movies are not. The put down is not you disagreeing or interjecting into the discussion, it is you coming in and saying you feel sorry for Ocstat having to reply to me and talk to me. That is the put down remarks I am talking about. It is insulting me and it's stirring.

 

[LizardMan07]

When did I ever say I felt sorry for Ocstat having to talk to you?

I'd hate to be Ocstat, its like arguing whales and getting rebutted with rocks.

Hard to argue when the argument gets shifted like that

All that is there is talking about how you argue. It is impossible to argue with someone if their basic premise shifts.

At no point did I say having to speak to you was a bad thing for him.

I'm not backing down from the arguement thing though, you actually make good points so I don't see why you need to shift them if you're proven to be wrong. 9/10 you'll be right, so, in my opinion, it'd be easier for you to just cop it then to start being tricky, surely.

 

[OcStat]

So, this movie still proves to be as divisive as ever.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

So, this movie still proves to be as divisive as ever.

I honestly don't see that changing. ASM2 mostly.