Doctor Octopus
Sidekick
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If by dark you mean s**t, then that's because it's terrible.
Agreed.
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If by dark you mean s**t, then that's because it's terrible.
People don't like Spider-Man predominantly dark.
It does not. USM was never this grim and gritty.
It did have it's darker arcs though, Clone Saga, Hobgoblin, among others. I fail to see what makes this movie grim or gritty, I mean, I can see why people might think so, but I don't consider it that way myself. Seems to me the tone is about on par with any number of Spider-Man books published in the last 20 to 30 years. Not all are depressingly dark, not all are super lighthearted, but most fall somewhere in the middle.
I know serious Batman has had some light hearted stories, too, but that does not mean the Batman movies should be light hearted in tone. They can have light hearted moments, just like the Spider-Man movies should have dark moments. But the whole movie shouldn't feel grim and depressing. TASM did.
Btw Clone Saga is considered one of the worst parts of the 90's for Spider-Man comics.
I was referring to those stories in Ultimate Spider-Man, in regards to your reply to Spider-Knight. Way to not sound condescending though!
Still, I don't see how this entire movie was depressing. You've said it felt that way to you but not how. I can't recall anyone saying why or how actually. Besides it having a darker color palette, I just don't see it. The narrative itself isn't any darker than the previous movies.
Sorry I didn't realize. I was not being condescending. Don't act over sensitive for no reason.
I didn't call the whole movie depressing. I said it was too grim and gritty. USM is not. And neither are the 616 Spider-Man comics either.
But the whole movie shouldn't feel grim and depressing. TASM did.
The movie's story was too grim. It opens with Peter's parents leaving him, then Peter having a bad school life, nearly all his scenes with Uncle Ben are ones where Uncle Ben is chastising him for something, then Uncle Ben dying Peter's hunt for Uncle Ben's killer, then Connors downfall into the Lizard, Peter feels responsible for creating Lizard, Captain Stacy doesn't like Peter, Gwen has to bandage up beaten and bloody Peter, Captain Stacy makes Peter promise to stay away from Gwen and then he dies, Nearly every Spider-Man scene is at night like a Batman movie, which gives the movie a whole dark feel. There's no balance. Even Peter looks miserable half the time, sitting in class with his hood up and stuff lol. Not nearly enough lighter moments to counteract all the serious stuff. I don't believe some quips make the movie lighter. Even the Nolan Batman movies had comedy moments and humour.
It's a terrible way to do a Spider-Man movie.
No worries, I just read it with the wrong implication.
Take this into consideration though, regardless of what you think of the film's quality, you consider this one film dark yes? And regardless of what you think of ASM2, I am assuming we can agree the tone is much lighter compared to this movie. So much like the Ultimate Spider-Man series, which would have an arc/story/moment like Death of a Goblin followed by Amazing Friends, or Carnage followed by Superstars; the Amazing film franchise, as far as tone is concerned, mirrors the comics pretty accurately.
And I use the Ultimate books as a reference here due to being more familiar with the arc titles and the tone changes being readily apparent in those arcs. It is present in each of the other books as well. While Amazing Spider-Man was very gloomy a while back with Civil War and Back in Black, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man was coming out at the same time on the other end of the tonal spectrum.
Those things now in bold are elements that would be present in any Spider-Man movie. I get you are saying; the manner in which the scene's were presented, for example Uncle Ben's death, were darker compared to the way they were presented before. But it doesn't make it straight up dark, to me anyway. I mean, a teenager having his uncle murdered due to their own inaction is inherently "dark" subject matter.
Captain Stacy's relationship with Peter is different than the source material but here he is used to show the audience that classic Spider-Man dilemma; he wants to help but the way he is perceived is divided. And in the end Captain Stacy acknowledges he was wrong about Peter. Then he dies of course, but for a moment stop and consider 4 out 5 movies pretty much end with funerals. Gwen bandaging up a beaten Spider-Man was a neat moment that to me shows Peter's inexperience, the Lizard's formidability, and that Peter's life is actually at risk when he is out there as Spider-Man.
The biggest fight in the movie at the school was in broad daylight.
Peter looks miserable half the time because he is miserable half the time, which is line with the character Peter Parker and with a teenager in general. There are moments that show he enjoys himself, and his time with his Uncle.
The lighter moments are made up of more than a few quips, there's easily more of those scenes here than in any of Nolan's Batman movies. And what makes the movie dark is nowhere near as dark as what we see in Batman.
But I get it now, this is Spider-Man and maybe the movie isn't as dark as others, but for some it is too dark for the character. I myself disagree. Spider-Man by the character's very nature can move from dark and light narratives with greater ease than any other.
Ocstat has got you here Dock Ock.
I've noticed you consistently redefine the subject matter when he points out something you missed.
"There's no fights in the day"
"What about the lizard fight"
"Well, that wasn't in the CITY?!"
Also, you seem to forget that TASM and TASM2 are separate stories as well...
I'd hate to be Ocstat, its like arguing whales and getting rebutted with rocks.
I did not redefine. I did not say there was no fights in the day. I said nearly every Spider-Man scene is at night. Nearly is not every single one.
I don't see what difference TASM and TASM 2 being different stories makes. They're still both Spider-Man movies in the same continuity and franchise. One of the complaints is how different they both feel tonally. If it were not for the same main actors they would feel like they came from different franchises.
Please stop interjecting all the time with your put down remarks BRAB. You are not Ocstat so you don't have to reply to this discussion at all. In fact neither does he if he does not want to. So stop stirring.
Take this into consideration though, regardless of what you think of the film's quality, you consider this one film dark yes? And regardless of what you think of ASM2, I am assuming we can agree the tone is much lighter compared to this movie. So much like the Ultimate Spider-Man series, which would have an arc/story/moment like Death of a Goblin followed by Amazing Friends, or Carnage followed by Superstars; the Amazing film franchise, as far as tone is concerned, mirrors the comics pretty accurately.
Yes I consider it dark and I think TASM2 is lighter. But because a comic book can have a dark story doesn't mean the whole title is dark toned. Just like in stories from Batman comics there can be light stories sometimes but that doesn't mean that Batman movies should be light toned. Just like Spider-Man movies should not be dark.
In regards to your first paragraph, I find it interesting you didn't respond like that in the first time. That makes more sense then rebutting somebody because it was a fight in the day in a school. You catch my drift?
You don't see the logical inconsistency there? That's fine I guess... Just consider that you're basically defining one thing as a series and the other as a story, hard to quantify them when you do this.
How on earth is somebody not agreeing with you a putdown? Its a forum mate, you're more than happy for people to jump in on your conversations when people agree with you, are you upset somebody doesn't agree with you? If you want a one on one conversation, there's a PM button. You're on a public part of the forum, just like other parts of the forum where you'll happily lap up the praise from others whilst bashing TASM2. Me jumping in is the equivalant to that, the only thing different? I'm not agreeing with you, and it seems evident that's offended you.
You know what? I'm not sorry, its a forum, and I have the right to interject just as much as anyone that agrees with you mate.
I'd hate to be Ocstat, its like arguing whales and getting rebutted with rocks.
Hard to argue when the argument gets shifted like that
So, this movie still proves to be as divisive as ever.