The Dark Knight Rises Why is Dick Grayson NOT embraced?

[GregComicFan]

Hi,

I think Nolan once mentioned Dick Grayson would never appear in any of his Batman films, and I think Christian Bale once mentioned he didn't like the idea of Robin at all. Then, on a lot of message boards, I notice fans do not embrace the idea of Robin in Batman Begins 3 (the third film in the triology) at all. So I'm just wondering...

why?

I dont care about Robin. What I'm talking about here is just "Dick Grayson", not "Robin". Why not introduce Dick Grayson in Batman Begins 3?

It's ironic/funny how Nolan cites The Long Halloween as a major influence on his Batman storyline, yet its sequel Dark Victory, which introduces Dick Grayson, is never mentioned at all.

I think introducing Dick Grayson (not Robin, just Dick Grayson) opens a plethora of exciting and interesting character development ideas for Bruce Wayne's character. To me, Dick has always been a fascinating character for Batman to bounce off of, because the writer can suggest Bruce is 1) trying to rebuild his family by making a surrogate family (Alfred as Bruce's father, Dick as Bruce's son, etc.) 2) Bruce needs Dick Grayson in order to not go over the edge. Bruce grows darker and darker in the role of Batman, but when he's forced to become a role model (for Dick), he's forced to mend his dark ways and become a positive role model. So in a way, Dick Grayson (having a surrogate son) keeps Bruce sane. 3) The end of isolation - I always found it interesting how Bruce discovers by accident a little boy who is EXACTLY like him (both Bruce and Dick's parents were murdered when they were very young). So this is a wake up call to Bruce - he's not alone...little kids have their parents/loved ones stolen from them every day. Bruce realizes he's not special. And because of this, Bruce begins to believe other kids have ever right as he does to make the world a less crime-driven place. So in other words, Bruce decides to take proteges and build an army of crime fighters.

So, as you can see, I think there's a lot that Dick Grayson offers Bruce Wayne, as far as character development and story potential. Not to mention, Dick Grayson by himself is an interesting character, but he'd offer the supporting cast a lot too.

So why do you think Nolan seems dead set against ever introducing him in the franchise?

I dont care about ever seeing a little boy in red and green spandex fighting Gotham criminals. But what I don't get is why introducing just Dick Grayson seems so .... out of the question/out of the realm of possibility.

thoughts?

Greg

 

[killingyouguy]

I wouldn't mind Dick Grayson being introduced in the last Batman movie they ever do. Or second to last. But not before then and no Robin. Ever.

 

[Spider-Bat]

No Dick because Nolan doesn't care about the true Bat-Mythos that's why. Robin is cool when done the right way. The 60's show and green underwear are a thing of the past. But with no imagination and stupid things as a lame and weak excuse they just keep making crap.

 

[Vile]

It makes ZERO sense for Batman to bring a child into his war on crime. And I'm talking about Dick Grayson, not Robin.

Alfred is the only companion Bats needs.

 

[odiin]

Because there's no point in using him if they don't intend on using him fully?

 

[Ixion]

It's ironic/funny how Nolan cites The Long Halloween as a major influence on his Batman storyline, yet its sequel Dark Victory, which introduces Dick Grayson, is never mentioned at all.

I've heard Bale say Dark Victory is one of his favourites.

I think if you want to tell the story of Batman you have to introduce Robin at some point, hes as big a part of the Bat mythos as any character other than Bruce and his parents. If the concept of Robin didn't work he wouldn't have been around for nearly 70 years, and pretty much every incarnation of Batman in whatever medium has used Robin.

 

[Joker]

Because having a child involved with Bruce Wayne/Batman at all raises the question of why this guy would take him in at all. If he's still going to be Batman, and hide that aspect of himself from this kid, and not cut back at all, he would be smart enough to realize that is doing a dis-service to Dick. And bringing him in as a side kick is just insane and near child endangerment. I think that Robin has been made great in the comics, mostly since Tim Drake took over, but we must'nt forget that the character was brought into the comics for the sole purpose of making the character lighter, and more kid friendly. And that's something I don't want to see happen to the movies.

 

[wellsy]

I actually agree with the OP. Dick himself adds a lot to Bruce's character. Introducing Robin is something else (there was a suggestion on another thread that Robin act as a taunter, a disembodied voice, which relates to Batman's terrifying of Gotham's underworld). Dick, however, can easily work.

Hell, I could see him working out Bruce is Batman. Doesn't have to become Robin. But he can know about Bruce's other side, which gives even more character development to Bruce.

As for the original question... well, I'd have to say that given how pathetically poor past attempts have been to translate Robin into other media (TV in the 60's, I'm sure he also butchered a few comic stories, Batman Forever and Batman and Robin especially). Its a cringe factor, and they say that its impossible to do it right (which it isn't - nobody has done it right YET).

 

[TwilightPro101]

Second what the Joker said.

 

[Deaths Head II]

I really think Robin needs to appear. I know people are dead set against this, but I really can't consider this a definitive Batman series if they leave out a crucial aspect of the Batman character thats been around in the comics so long. Batman and Robin. Its the most iconic dual in comicdom. Even if Nolan is apprehensive about having a kid in bright colors helping Batman (and the suggestions I've heard about this makes the concept better and better in my eyes), the fact he would ignore the Dick Grayson character completely feels like a big spit in the eye.

Maybe I feel this way because I grew up on the TAS and liked Dick the best. But there a lot of good emotions and interesting drama he can start in the Batman character. Whether it be Jason with his death or Dick with him getting out of Batman's shadow and becoming Nightwing. Just that speech in Batman Forever where Bruce talks to Dick about revenge (one of the few good scenes in the film in my opinion) and waking up each night "trying to find another face" shows how much Dick Grayson's character could do for the series. And that was made under Joel Shumacher. Imagine what a darker director like Nolan could do with it.

 

[Abaddon]

Because having a child involved with Bruce Wayne/Batman at all raises the question of why this guy would take him in at all. If he's still going to be Batman, and hide that aspect of himself from this kid, and not cut back at all, he would be smart enough to realize that is doing a dis-service to Dick. And bringing him in as a side kick is just insane and near child endangerment. I think that Robin has been made great in the comics, mostly since Tim Drake took over, but we must'nt forget that the character was brought into the comics for the sole purpose of making the character lighter, and more kid friendly. And that's something I don't want to see happen to the movies.

I don't like the idea of Robin being in, but I would've been fine with Dick Grayson until this post.

 

[batman44]

I dunno. I like the character of Richard/ Robin and hope's that he'll be in another Batman movie soon....atleast the character Dick himself.

 

[Mr. Socko]

This is why Superman works alone.

 

[GregComicFan]

anybody know the exact timeline in the comics for at what point in Batman's career that he witnessed Dick's parent's murder at the circus? Was he Batman for two years? three years?

I think I remember hearing it was his second or third year on the job as Batman.

 

[batdude]

It used to be year three. I'm not sure if it still is though.

 

[Romero's Stache]

This is why Superman works alone.

Your in hell little man, and I am the devil

 

[Ceb-Man]

Robin will more than likely be introduced after Nolan does his three films and hands they keys over to a new director.

 

[Joker]

I'd much rather see Batgirl, Huntress, Azrael, and even f**kin Batwoman before they do Robin...they all make much more sense than Robin ever will. Have Batgirl be 17 or 18, wanting to go into law enforcement but her father forbids it, so to make a difference she models herself after Batman and starts fighting crime. I dont know much about Huntress' origins in the comics, so I cant really comment on how I'd do her.

Azrael would be the easiest, I think. Have the Order of St. Dumas be a spliter group from the league of shadows who disagreed with there methods. And by that, I mean that they would think the league of shadows werent doing enough, and werent hardcore enough. Have Azrael come from them, much as Bruce did, but instead of being inspired by personal tragedy, have him be a guy that they essentially brainwashed into doing there work for them. He gets sent to kill Batman, Batman snaps him out of it somehow, and bam, there's your Azrael. I'd much rather see him, a guy I'd consider to be Batman's equal if done right, than a sidekick.

 

[Katsuro]

Robin is a great character, and I really hope Nolan decides to use him eventually. An intro at the end of the third movie, setting him up for a fourth would be great.

And yes, I mean Robin. Not just Dick Grayson as some kid, but full blown Robin. I think Nolan could do for Robin what Burton and co. did for Batman, and that's show people he's not the same person you saw in the 60's TV show. Before B'89 got made, there was talk of basically redoing the Adam West stuff with Bill Murray. That almost happened. People thought Batman was lame and campy and would never be taken seriously, just like they think of Robin.

Robin doesn't HAVE to be campy, it just happens to be how he's been portrayed more popularly. The average person only knows of Chris o'Donell and Burt Ward, and has never read stuff like Dark Victory. It would be great for Nolan to show the general public how cool the character can be.

 

[Jochimus]

I'd much rather see Batgirl, Huntress, Azrael, and even f**kin Batwoman before they do Robin...they all make much more sense than Robin ever will. Have Batgirl be 17 or 18, wanting to go into law enforcement but her father forbids it, so to make a difference she models herself after Batman and starts fighting crime.

Heck, I'd even take Barbara Gordon in the Robin suit before Dick Grayson.

 

[Leenie]

Casual fans and moviegoers will not embrace Robin as much as the comic book fans. Most people like to see Batman fighting by himself. It would be interesting to watch a Batman story that does NOT involve any sidekicks for once. I want to see Batman ... Not Robin!

I think that Nolan is making the right choice by not bringing in Robin. Remember what happened with the last movie franchise when Robin was brought into the picture? Or are people that traumatized by those movies that they forgot?

 

[Deaths Head II]

People bring up Robin ruining the old movie series, but I honestly found him to be one of the few things I liked about Batman Forever (which isn't saying much I know). To me, he just came in when the series started going bad, he didn't cause it. And by that line of logic, Two Face and Riddler shouldn't show up either. And don't say "its time characters like these were done well", because I can say the same exact thing about Robin. Lord knows hes a bigger character in the comics. Katsuro put it best I think. Robin could use a live action version that distances itself from the camp.

 

[mfbtl]

I think they shouldn't introduce Robin until they build a good franchise with the new Batman series. Ultimatley Robin is good for the Batman character because it developes more sub-plot. (i.e. when Jason gets killed)

If they plan on doing the whole "League of Shadows" thing then Azrael is a must b/c he becomes Batman.

 

[Victarion]

If we got a young Dick, we could see some of the parallels between his situation and Bruce's, like the Father's Day part of Dark Victory.

The most of "Robin" we should see is Dick going after who killed his parents, and his troubled reaction when he kills the guy...just like in Dark Victory.

 

[TwilightPro101]

That would be a dream come true.