Apocalypse X-men Movie Continuity Explained!

[psylockolussus]

But...you didn't say that...

You said:

"So basically just a pointless scene that made Wolverine all surprised? It pretty much takes the away the element of surprise if thats the case. And no thats not an easter egg.

Someone new to the series won't get that scene period if that person haven't seen the original trilogy and The Wolverine."

You were specifically talking about a particular moment/connection involving Logan.

Again people (someone new to the series like I said) wouldn't get it IF they had NO IDEA who were those characters assuming they had 0 knowledge about the X-Men universe and past movies. Not every one is gonna research a film before they watch it.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Thing is the Sabertooth character from X1 is nothing like the one from origins, the one from origins was way more vocal and if he recognised wolverine why didn't he say anything?

Agreed. They act like strangers in X1. But Sabretooth in Wolverine was much better character. More like comics. So I didn't mind that continuity change if it gave better Sabretooth.

 

[night0205]

Sabretooth knew Wolverine in X1, otherwise there would be no reason why he stole his dog tags. Wolverine didn't remember Sabretooth, but the dog tags were their main connection, as explained in Origins. As far as the changes of creed between films, it appears that creed, giving into his animalistic nature has evolved into more a beast then a man. This is not a new idea, for mutants to evolve into more extreme versions over time, and creed had 15 years to evolve. No contradiction there.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Sabretooth knew Wolverine in X1, otherwise there would be no reason why he stole his dog tags. Wolverine didn't remember Sabretooth, but the dog tags were their main connection, as explained in Origins. As far as the changes of creed between films, it appears that creed, giving into his animalistic nature has evolved into more a beast then a man. This is not a new idea, for mutants to evolve into more extreme versions over time, and creed had 15 years to evolve. No contradiction there.

That not an explained explanation that's just head canon

The dog tags could be considered a hint if you chose to see it that way but in terms of progression the 2 sabertooths do not add

 

[psylockolussus]

Sabretooth knew Wolverine in X1, otherwise there would be no reason why he stole his dog tags. Wolverine didn't remember Sabretooth, but the dog tags were their main connection, as explained in Origins. As far as the changes of creed between films, it appears that creed, giving into his animalistic nature has evolved into more a beast then a man. This is not a new idea, for mutants to evolve into more extreme versions over time, and creed had 15 years to evolve. No contradiction there.

I don't agree about that, watching X1, they seemed like perfect strangers and stealing Logan's dog tags just seemed random.

But it would have made perfect sense if they really explained what happened to Sabretooth after XOW and how he got recruited by Magneto. But its too late for that now.

 

[Weather Witch]

Honestly between 2 Toads, 2 Moiras, 2 Hanks and 3 Strykers, connecting the two Sabretooths is relatively easy.
And that is of course leaving out Emma Frost/Silverfox and Bolivar/Senator Trask since those two were not really acknowledged in the final products.

 

[X-Maniac]

I always see X3's 'Secretary Trask' as Larry Trask, regardless of screen credits. Someone (a very very distant relative, lol)? who somehow came to inherit the company (not Bolivar's son as Larry was in the comics). After the events of X3, Secretary Trask went on to ensure the creation of the super-adaptive Sentinels.

But it's best not to think about it all too much, lol...

 

[Weather Witch]

But it's best not to think about it all too much, lol...

Basically this. But where would be the fun in that? t:

 

[CyclopsSummers]

Sabretooth knew Wolverine in X1, otherwise there would be no reason why he stole his dog tags. Wolverine didn't remember Sabretooth, but the dog tags were their main connection, as explained in Origins. As far as the changes of creed between films, it appears that creed, giving into his animalistic nature has evolved into more a beast then a man. This is not a new idea, for mutants to evolve into more extreme versions over time, and creed had 15 years to evolve. No contradiction there.

He stole his dog tags doesnt mean he knows Logan
Sabret didnt have any dialogues throughout the film (just scream for me) we dont know if he knows Logan or not.

 

[night0205]

There is no explanation for him taking the dog tags other than he knows Logan. Then Origins confirms that.

 

[GuestStar2004]

There is no explanation for him taking the dog tags other than he knows Logan. Then Origins confirms that.

There is no reason for why the 2 sabertooths are different either

Why sabertooths would steal wolverines dog tags that have the name wolverine on them when that's not even how he knew him in origins I dunno but it's all speculation or head canon

 

[dax]

Thing is the Sabertooth character from X1 is nothing like the one from origins, the one from origins was way more vocal and if he recognised wolverine why didn't he say anything? and if he didn't then why not? because something happened that he don't know about? thats not a good way to add things up

Maybe they would have followed it up in an origins sequel but we probably won't get that now

Sabertooth didn't say anything to Wolverine for the same reason why Xavier hasn't spoken to Magneto (during the timegap between First Class and Days of Future Past) or Mystique (throughout the series before the timeline change). Sabertooth is still pissed off at Wolverine for abandoning him after being together side-by-side for almost 200 years but instead of being vocal about it, he lets his claws do all of the talking. Also, like most mutants, Sabertooth went through a secondary mutation that has severely damaged his mentality. His behavior is like a werewolf where every trace of his humanity is wiped away and all that remains is a monster.

There is no reason for why the 2 Sabertooths are different either

There are 2 reasons:

1) For the same reason why we have 2 Xaviers, 2 Magnetos, and 2 Mystiques... to show what Sabertooth looked like when he was younger and less animalistic looking.
2) Secondary mutation.

Besides, him taking Wolverine's dog tags is proof enough that the 2 Sabertooths are the same person.

Why sabertooths would steal wolverines dog tags that have the name wolverine on them when that's not even how he knew him in origins.

But surely, Sabertooth would've seen Wolverine's dog tags after their final fight on Three Mile island. With Wolverine standing above him with his claws touching Sabertooth's chin, Sabertooth would've gotten a good look at the dog tags that's inside Wolverine's tank top so Sabertooth would know by then that Wolverine calls himself by that name.

Agreed. They act like strangers in X1.

That's because Wolverine has amnesia. He doesn't remember Sabertooth nor that he:

- remembers his childhood.
- already met Xavier and Magneto 4 decades earlier.
- fought in 4 major wars over the course of 100 years.
- saved Yashida's life from the Nagasaki bombing.
- met William Stryker during the Vietnam war.
- dated Kayla Silverfox.
Or
- volunteered for the weapon X experiment.

I didn't expect Wolverine to not recognize some of the people he's already met before.

He stole his dog tags doesnt mean he knows Logan

Actually, it does. In Predator, Arnold knows the owner of the dog tags he was holding so you don't take somebody's dog tags unless you know its owner. Clearly, Sabertooth knows Wolverine since he decided to attack him first instead of grabbing Rogue which was his actual mission.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Sabertooth didn't say anything to Wolverine for the same reason why Xavier hasn't spoken to Magneto (during the timegap between First Class and Days of Future Past) or Mystique (throughout the series before the timeline change). Sabertooth is still pissed off at Wolverine for abandoning him after being together side-by-side for almost 200 years but instead of being vocal about it, he lets his claws do all of the talking. Also, like most mutants, Sabertooth went through a secondary mutation that has severely damaged his mentality. His behavior is like a werewolf where every trace of his humanity is wiped away and all that remains is a monster.

There is absolutely nothing to back up a secondary mutantion so if you have to make it up in your head because the films doesn't explain it then no it doesn't add up

There are 2 reasons:

1) For the same reason why we have 2 Xaviers, 2 Magnetos, and 2 Mystiques... to show what Sabertooth looked like when he was younger and less animalistic looking.
2) Secondary mutation.

Does sabertooth even age? i assume he doesn't same way wolverine doesn't

Besides, him taking Wolverine's dog tags is proof enough that the 2 Sabertooths are the same person.

Not really since in Origin the dog tags were not an important aspect, its not like they made a point of sabertooth noticing the tags so they could say thats why he took them in X1

But surely, Sabertooth would've seen Wolverine's dog tags after their final fight on Three Mile island. With Wolverine standing above him with his claws touching Sabertooth's chin, Sabertooth would've gotten a good look at the dog tags that's inside Wolverine's tank top so Sabertooth would know by then that Wolverine calls himself by that name.

thats stretching though don't you think?

 

[CyclopsSummers]

Actually, it does. In Predator, Arnold knows the owner of the dog tags he was holding so you don't take somebody's dog tags unless you know its owner. Clearly, Sabertooth knows Wolverine since he decided to attack him first instead of grabbing Rogue which was his actual mission.

However Creed in X1 and Origins are the same
like Toad in X1 and DOFP are the same

 

[BoredGuy]

the very fact that we've all put so much thought into this, or that this thread exists at all, shows just how f***ed the continuity on these movies is
you don't see these threads on the DC, Marvel, or Star Wars boards

 

[Sithborg]

You haven't seen Star Wars canon debates, have you.

 

[BoredGuy]

well that expanded universe stuff is just beatin your head against the wall

I'm talking just the film continuity itself, no tie-in comics, novels, tv shows or anything like that

 

[Sithborg]

Well, just be glad Ewan McGregor reminded Lucas that he needed to grab Anakin's saber.

 

[BoredGuy]

haha seriously?
guy couldn't even keep his own creation straight

 

[psylockolussus]

the very fact that we've all put so much thought into this, or that this thread exists at all, shows just how f***ed the continuity on these movies is
you don't see these threads on the DC, Marvel, or Star Wars boards

Sure, but the average Joe wouldn't care about all of this. Like if I wasn't a fan of X-Men, I wouldn't care. So far, there isn't a continuity error (in my opinion) that has hurt the public's interest in seeing the X-Men movies.

 

[BoredGuy]

I know a few people who liked X2 a lot but are confused enough by it to stay away from the films now (especially after DOFP)
they weren't huge fans to begin with, but still, every ticket counts

 

[Tilapia]

Sure, but the average Joe wouldn't care about all of this. Like if I wasn't a fan of X-Men, I wouldn't care. So far, there isn't a continuity error (in my opinion) that has hurt the public's interest in seeing the X-Men movies.

While that statement may be true, there hasn't been a huge interest since X2 or since the buildup toward DoFP to be fair. I think it's a culmination of the continuity blunders, the lack of visual spectacle and block buster action, the weak supporting characters, and the writing at times being very shoddy, X-3 and Origins aside. Just haven't delivered a stellar blockbuster to this point, when all the elements are there for this to succeed. I don't want to hear that it's more mature thematically as opposed to MCU style. I think it's proven it can work both ways.

Right now, X-Men is comparing favorably to the DC universe and WB in terms of gritty comic book blockbusters. MoS and DoFP performed very similarly. DCCU is now upping the ante big time, but I do not expect Avengers type numbers, not even close. And really, DC/WB numbers are good enough for X-Men. I want to see what the budget is for Apocalypse when all is said and done. Once the film is out and the numbers are in, we can reevaluate the franchise, but with a villain like this, with this story, egregious continuity blunders aside, this flick should post very respectable numbers and should out gross DoFP WW in my guesstimation. Anything under is a failure in my eyes.

 

[iacobusleo]

While that statement may be true, there hasn't been a huge interest since X2 or since the buildup toward DoFP to be fair. I think it's a culmination of the continuity blunders, the lack of visual spectacle and block buster action, the weak supporting characters, and the writing at times being very shoddy, X-3 and Origins aside. Just haven't delivered a stellar blockbuster to this point, when all the elements are there for this to succeed. I don't want to hear that it's more mature thematically as opposed to MCU style. I think it's proven it can work both ways.

Right now, X-Men is comparing favorably to the DC universe and WB in terms of gritty comic book blockbusters. MoS and DoFP performed very similarly. DCCU is now upping the ante big time, but I do not expect Avengers type numbers, not even close. And really, DC/WB numbers are good enough for X-Men. I want to see what the budget is for Apocalypse when all is said and done. Once the film is out and the numbers are in, we can reevaluate the franchise, but with a villain like this, with this story, egregious continuity blunders aside, this flick should post very respectable numbers and should out gross DoFP WW in my guesstimation. Anything under is a failure in my eyes.

I think you're putting way too much thought into why the X-Men franchise struggled after X3. The general audience don't really care about the specifics such as shoddy writing, continuity blunders and weak supporting characters etc. (Heck many non comic book fans I talked to enjoyed Last Stand and preferred Origins over The Wolverine). There are so many blockbusters out there that have made it big even with these flaws. It's when these flaws combine to make a truly terrible movie (like Origins) that hurt the audience perception. But when they are just the specifics of an okay movie, I doubt it will deter people from seeing the next one.

There WERE several factors working against each movie after Last Stand.

Origins: Truly terrible movie, hence bad word of mouth.

First Class: Not a classic X-Men lineup, relative unknown actors at the time, no real huge push in marketing.

The Wolverine: Extremely divisive, many casual fans I spoke to said it was really boring.

Each of these movies had no connections with each other, and did not form an overarching narrative, so it was easier for people to give them a pass.

Plus they were all coming out during the MCU explosion, whereas these movies only came out every 3 years or so. They kinda got lost in the shuffle and ended up looking mediocre in comparison (First Class aside).

I'm sure Fox has calculated the risk of not having Hugh Jackman or the novelty of having the OT cast in this movie. So even if Apocalypse not being able to outgross DOFP worldwide would make it a failure in your eyes, I think Fox would still be happy if the movie pulled respectable numbers but performed under DOFP.

 

[dax]

There is absolutely nothing to back up a secondary mutantion so if you have to make it up in your head because the films doesn't explain it then no it doesn't add up

Hank McCoy says hi. Jean Grey and Kitty Pryde too because they all went through secondary mutations in the movies so it's not that hard to believe that Sabertooth went through the same thing.

Does sabertooth even age? i assume he doesn't same way wolverine doesn't

Of course, Sabertooth doesn't age but that doesn't mean he's not going to turn into a giant caveman from hell.

Not really since in Origin the dog tags were not an important aspect, its not like they made a point of sabertooth noticing the tags so they could say thats why he took them in X1

Then you explain why Sabertooth took Wolverine's dog tags? You don't do that to someone unless you know that person and clearly, X1 Sabertooth gave the impression that he knew Wolverine. Those dog tags were very important to Sabertooth which is why he kept them throughout the movie till Wolverine took them back.

thats stretching though don't you think?

Not really.

 

[psylockolussus]

While that statement may be true, there hasn't been a huge interest since X2 or since the buildup toward DoFP to be fair. I think it's a culmination of the continuity blunders, the lack of visual spectacle and block buster action, the weak supporting characters, and the writing at times being very shoddy, X-3 and Origins aside. Just haven't delivered a stellar blockbuster to this point, when all the elements are there for this to succeed. I don't want to hear that it's more mature thematically as opposed to MCU style. I think it's proven it can work both ways.

Right now, X-Men is comparing favorably to the DC universe and WB in terms of gritty comic book blockbusters. MoS and DoFP performed very similarly. DCCU is now upping the ante big time, but I do not expect Avengers type numbers, not even close. And really, DC/WB numbers are good enough for X-Men. I want to see what the budget is for Apocalypse when all is said and done. Once the film is out and the numbers are in, we can reevaluate the franchise, but with a villain like this, with this story, egregious continuity blunders aside, this flick should post very respectable numbers and should out gross DoFP WW in my guesstimation. Anything under is a failure in my eyes.

Huge interest since X2? Isn't that why X3 earned more 100 million in 3 days.

And the DCCU would love to have the longevity that this X-Men series had without resorting to another reboot. Between the release of X1 and the latest X-Men film - we got Catwoman, Superman Returns, The Dark Knight Trilogy, Jonah Hex, Green Lantern, Man of Steel and soon another reboot of Green Lantern and Batman. While X-Men is in movie #8 and #9 this year and could be expanding its movie universe on TV. The X-Men Film Universe might not have been the most ideal movie franchise out there but its not as all over the place as DC. And may I remind you, none of the X-Men movies have flopped like Green Lantern and Catwoman.