First Avenger Is Captain America like Batman when it comes to killing?

[Shivsguy616]

Oh, you are just splitting hairs because you don't like to be wrong. You seem to be the only one who did not understand my point, my use of English is fine, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on this forum who's made the NYTimes bestseller list or works for a major magazine. I'm sure a few of us work in publishing though.

Hey, I may not have made the bestsellers list, but a publication in a Legal Journal at 18 isn't too bad, is it?

 

[Shivsguy616]

That makes sense to me. So an issue or miniseries or Graphic Novel would be a story... not all of Cap's adventures during WWII. That could be considered a backstory... but a "story" is a more specific term.

Who cares? It's highly likely that he wasn't even intending the word "story" to be taken in a litteral, specific sense.

 

[Rage]

You seem to be the one making an "issue" (pun intended) of it. That little I put in there was a cheeky way of saying that your use of the word "story" changes the meaning of your statement... I understood what you meant and was being sarcastic.... but maybe sarcasm is lost on a high-brow literary type like yourself.

And while I may not have gotten anything on the NY Times best sellers list... I have actually done work for a small publishing company called Marvel Comics... some of you may have heard of it. (even on Captain America... )

 

[ChickenScratch]

Hey, I may not have made the bestsellers list, but a publication in a Legal Journal at 18 isn't too bad, is it?

That's pretty good, I got my first magazine job at 18 when I just started college. Didn't even have a desk, good times.

Yes, literalism seems to be the malady in this thread. To the point of making yourself miss the obvious meaning of a statement to mince words.

 

[Majik1387]

If true, one can also say you have a bias based on whatever issue(s) you may have worked on.

But then again, I pay no mind to people boasting about doing something yet still trying to be anonymous.

 

[ChickenScratch]

If true, one can also say you have a bias based on whatever issue(s) you may have worked on.
But then again, I pay no mind to people boasting about doing something yet still trying to be anonymous.

LOL, love it.

Yes, just like I would not listen to Kevin Smith on his interpretation of Batman or Daredevil since we have all seen the result of that.

 

[captainrogers]

Oh, you are just splitting hairs because you don't like to be wrong. You seem to be the only one who did not understand my point, my use of English is fine, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on this forum who's made the NYTimes bestseller list or works for a major magazine. I'm sure a few of us work in publishing though.

Ahhh....... C'mon guys, Rage seems like a good guy. He's in the camp that prefers a Cap that shouldn't kill because of his abilities. And believe it or not, i respect that. But my man agrees that Cap has and that the current incarnation does in certain circumstances as well. Maybe he was splitting hairs with the statement, but I was actually about to jokingly chime in with a friendly "*geek pushing up glasses* actually, Not EVERY WWII story " myself.
Rage and Surfer(who also is in the "prefers 'non kill' Cap camp' )seem like reasonable, good buch o' dudes.

 

[Rage]

If true, one can also say you have a bias based on whatever issue(s) you may have worked on.

But then again, I pay no mind to people boasting about doing something yet still trying to be anonymous.

I remain anonymous because the work I did was ghost work. While I attended the Joe Kubert School, I made ends meet by doing odd comic book jobs (including ghost work for professionals in the industry at the time) My name doesn't show up on the credits page and don't want to "out" the artist(s) that I helped to meet thier deadlines.

Actually the issue I worked on Cap was not my favourite (the penciller was a bit of a *****e) Although it was cool to work on a Cap comic. It would be like a Yankees fan getting to play an inning during a regular season game.

 

[ChickenScratch]

An ex of mine lived right by the Kubert school. Oh I hated going over to Jersey to see her.

 

[captainrogers]

By the by, Rage, love the avatar, is that Zeck?

 

[Shivsguy616]

That's pretty good, I got my first magazine job at 18 when I just started college. Didn't even have a desk, good times.

Well done! That was just a few months ago, by the way, so hopefully I'll have a fair few more ahead of me. I'll be on the editorial board for next year's edition of the Journal. t:

 

[Rage]

An ex of mine lived right by the Kubert school. Oh I hated going over to Jersey to see her.

Dover NJ and Rockaway are not exactly the nicest places in "the Garden State" t:

 

[Rage]

By the by, Rage, love the avatar, is that Zeck?

That is infact a Mike Zeck cover. Zeck's Cap was one of my favourites growing up (just behind John Byrne's and Dwyers')

 

[Rage]

If true, one can also say you have a bias based on whatever issue(s) you may have worked on.

But then again, I pay no mind to people boasting about doing something yet still trying to be anonymous.

Hahaha... Its funny to think of it as boasting. Having worked in the comic book industry, I don't find it anything to boast about. It is not a glamorous job. Long hours, not great pay... TIGHT deadlines.

I realizes quickly that there was not a lot of money to be made in comics unless you were the top of the heap. It was too much work for too little pay. I like the idea of doing comics... but the reality of it wasn't as cool... so I became a graphic designer.

 

[captainrogers]

Dover NJ and Rockaway are not exactly the nicest places in "the Garden State" t:

I'm from Jersey myself, and yeah, those aren't the best of parts. I was gonna try to get in to the Kubert school myself. Ended up getting a degree in Graphic Design and then I joined the military. oh wells. I really don't "art" a lot any more. I'm afraid to see how decrepit my current abilities are.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Dover NJ and Rockaway are not exactly the nicest places in "the Garden State" t:

Yeah, you should see me working up the courage almost every weekend for 4 years to go over to Rockaway. Not the nicest town or people ... and I'm including her in the assessment.

 

[Rage]

Hahaha. The good thing about Dover was (according to rumour) the town housed a lot of older mob families. I can honestly say that I lived there for 3 years and never once saw any sign of petty crime or felt like I was in any danger... even though the place is really run down and grimey.

 

[Surfer]

Except of course for the fact that the idea that humans only use 10% of thier brain function is an idiotic misconception. And equally, postulating that olympic atheletes are at 30% of human physical potential has no basis in fact, evidence, or even simple logic.

In 1896, Spiridon Louis won the Olympic marathon with a time of 2:58:50. In 2008, Samuel Kamau Wanjiru won the Olympic marathon with a time of 2:06:32. So, in 112 years, with all the medical, fitness, clothing, hydration, training etc. advances, there has been a 52 minute improvement. And for the most part, this had been a very slowly creeping progression, with the improvements becoming lesser and lesser each year.

Now, if we are to assume that the Olympians who run the marathon are at just 30% of peak physical fitness, then you are in effect saying that you believe a perfect human could run a marathon in about 0:37:57. Or in other words, run for 42km non stop at a speed of almost 67kmph. Now, it doesn't take a great leap of faith to realise that this will never be naturally humanly possible. But to put it into perspective; record-setting sprinters Michael Johnson and Donovan Bailey hit top speeds of 43kmph, but only for seconds.

Below, too, I have posted a link to a mathematical model for the theoretical fastest humanly possible 100m sprint time. It is estimated to be about 9.2 seconds and is likely not to be achieved for hundereds of years. Usain Bolt already runs a sub 9.6 100m. If this was 30% of peak human capability, then Cap would be running the 100 meters in 2.9 seconds... or at 124kmph. http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/08/the_math_of_the_fastest_human.php

Shivsguy616, I wasn't expecting you to get all mathematical on me. However, the difference as I mentioned is this is a comic book. I just threw out some numbers to allow people to believe in the possibilities. I was not suggesting that this is an exact representation of where we are at in the scheme of actual human performance. However, I would like to know where you heard that using 10% of your brain is an idiotic misconception. What I have heard is that we use all of our brain, but that we only use about 10% of each of the respective areas on average. If I am wrong I apologize, but I would hardly think it makes the thought idiotic.

Surfer

 

[Rage]

Think of the possiblities (physically) if you didn't build up lactic acid (like everybody else)... you'd be able to run, lift, jump etc... longer than anyone else. Now image that your muscles didn't breakdown as quickly... you'd be able to go longer than most. Now imagine that your lung capacity is second to none... now you wouldn't run out of gas as quickly...

When ALL your faculties are higher than everyone else... everything benefits. Being "the perfect human" would mean you are proably head and shoulders above other Olympic calibre athletes because they all have thier strengths and weaknesses... while Cap wouldn't have a weakness (so to speak) so all his other attributes would be that much greater. I would guess that Cap would be a lot closer to someone like Spiderman than Batman. While Batman is considered an olympic class athlete... Cap is HUMAN PERFECTION (and spidey is beyond that)

 

[Shivsguy616]

Shivsguy616, I wasn't expecting you to get all mathematical on me. However, the difference as I mentioned is this is a comic book. I just threw out some numbers to allow people to believe in the possibilities. I was not suggesting that this is an exact representation of where we are at in the scheme of actual human performance. However, I would like to know where you heard that using 10% of your brain is an idiotic misconception. What I have heard is that we use all of our brain, but that we only use about 10% of each of the respective areas on average. If I am wrong I apologize, but I would hardly think it makes the thought idiotic.

Surfer

I was just trying to show that even in the realms of a comic, those estimates would be way off.

As for the 10% thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10%_of_brain_myth
http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percent.asp
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=people-only-use-10-percent-of-brain

I used the word idiotic because the idea that humans would evolve a brain (an incredibly costly organ) with capabilities far beyond what it is needed for is, to anyone who understands how evolution works, laughable. No offence was meant, and I wasn't calling you idiotic. It is very normal not to check myths which are very commonly perpetuated. But if at all looked into, it is a very transparant and silly myth.

 

[Shivsguy616]

Think of the possiblities (physically) if you didn't build up lactic acid (like everybody else)... you'd be able to run, lift, jump etc... longer than anyone else. Now image that your muscles didn't breakdown as quickly... you'd be able to go longer than most. Now imagine that your lung capacity is second to none... now you wouldn't run out of gas as quickly...

Except that in humans, each of those factors have definite, finite limits.

 

[Rage]

Except that in humans, each of those factors have definite, finite limits.

While humans do have a finite limit (for all these things) That finite limit still depends on the sum of all the other parts and their limits. So I'd think that Cap's ceiling is vastly higher than other peoples' (even those thought to be world class athletes). With all his faculties working at 100% Cap would seem almost super-human to anyone watching him do what he does. Think... he'd be able to sprint faster than Hussen Bolt and keep up that pace longer than 9.6 seconds... maybe minutes.

Conservatively... The world record time for running the mile is 3 mins 43 seconds and 13 miliseconds. That works out to be a 13.85 second 100 yard dash. So by that math... if Cap could keep up with Hussen Bolt (he'd be faster of course) and not tire for the entire mile... he'd run the mile in under 3 minutes (2.57 minute mile) That would seem SUPER HUMAN... and that is a conservative estimate.

 

[captainrogers]

While humans do have a finite limit (for all these things) That finite limit still depends on the sum of all the other parts and their limits. So I'd think that Cap's ceiling is vastly higher than other peoples' (even those thought to be world class athletes). With all his faculties working at 100% Cap would seem almost super-human to anyone watching him do what he does. Think... he'd be able to sprint faster than Hussen Bolt and keep up that pace longer than 9.6 seconds... maybe minutes.

Conservatively... The world record time for running the mile is 3 mins 43 seconds and 13 miliseconds. That works out to be a 13.85 second 100 yard dash. So by that math... if Cap could keep up with Hussen Bolt (he'd be faster of course) and not tire for the entire mile... he'd run the mile in under 3 minutes (2.57 minute mile) That would seem SUPER HUMAN... and that is a conservative estimate.

And in the comic, Cap HAS stated he could a mile in a little over a minute if he had to.

 

[Shivsguy616]

Conservatively... The world record time for running the mile is 3 mins 43 seconds and 13 miliseconds.

Just wondering, why do you call the world record "conservative"?

 

[Rage]

not the world record... the estimate of Cap's speed for the mile is conservative. I think he'd probably be able to do it faster, but I wanted my estimate of Cap's time to be conservative.