Civil War What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques

[JtheDreamer]

It should also be noted that there's nothing to indicate that Tony had forgiven Cap. Tony never wanted any of the Avengers in jail to begin with, in fact he spends a good chunk of the film trying to keep Steve out of jail and make sure he's safe. The entire reason the airport fight happened is because Tony didn't want Ross sending in a special ops team that might hurt Steve. So Tony putting Ross on hold doesn't mean much, especially considering that Steve had already broken his team out by that point.

If he's pissed - he's not reading the letter. He'd be setting it off somewhere or flatout throwing it away.

 

[RockSP]

Audience laughed when Stark shot Falcon after war machine fell to the ground. I thought they shouldve handled that scene differently.

So did my audience, I was confused because I felt it was a serious moment...

No one in the audience laughed when I saw it...except for me, heh.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I say that RDJ'S reactions while reading the letter as well as his response to Ross on the phone speak to a man more on the "forgiveness" side of the equation.

Look... I in no way am suggesting the letter montage "ruins" the film. I don't think anyone is. But for myself the Russia fight and it's aftermath is THE dramatic and character high point of the movie and initially left me with a great feeling of tension. The letter part dissipated that to a large degree. It is still a fun film but some of the dramatic punch was drained away for myself.

I think it's fair to have a legit critique while still enjoying the film AND endorsing it. BUT folks please stop confusing that with trashing the movie. I know ya'll will claim otherwise but it seems the mildest of critiques is akin to spitting on this film as far as some are concerned given some reactions I have read so far to criticisms and nitpicks.

 

[Wylie Times]

If he's pissed - he's not reading the letter. He'd be setting it off somewhere or flatout throwing it away.

That might be how YOU'D react, that doesn't mean it's how Tony would react.

Also it'd be dumb to burn the letter before reading it. What if it said "I want to surrender, here's my location"?

 

[JtheDreamer]

Also it'd be dumb to burn the letter before reading it. What if it said "I want to surrender, here's my location"?

Illogical given what has transpired.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm gonna need people to stop acting like Peter's Spider-Sense hasn't continually been portrayed as inconsistent.

If Peter's spider-sense always worked NOBODY would be able to lay a finger on him with his speed and agility. As we've seen since the characters inception though, plenty of people who are MUCH slower than him are capable of hitting him with objects and even catching him by surprise at times.

That's true, I will give you that, and if the fight in the movie had been even I would have had much less of a problem with the fight. It's just the way Cap totally schooled him I had issue with, did Spidey even get a hit on him? I don't remember him doing so.

And after that, Cap then goes on to beat IM at the end when the latter should wiped the floor with both him and Bucky. I just thought a better and smarter way could have been found for both fights.

 

[Wylie Times]

That's true, I will give you that, and if the fight in the movie had been even I would have had much less of a problem with the fight. It's just the way Cap totally schooled him I had issue with, did Spidey even get a hit on him? I don't remember him doing so.

I felt the fight was pretty even and showed that Spidey was more powerful, but Cap was more skilled and had more experience.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I felt the fight was pretty even and showed that Spidey was more powerful, but Cap was more skilled and had more experience.

To me it just seemed Spidey got schooled. See how I feel after another viewing but I didn't like how the fight went at all.

And as I said there were smarter and better ways for the fight to go, have Spidey get one good hit on Cap and him to realise he couldn't get it again so he played it more tactically.

 

[Mjölnir]

As a huge Spidey fan I was fine with how the fight went. Peter was insecure and inexperienced and that made him "lose". It wasn't like Cap could knock him out, he just outsmarted him and stalled him for a while, and it's not exactly like Spidey didn't get to shine a ton during the fight overall either.

 

[MIKE10]

I know what you are saying about Cap, but this is also the Iron Man who took down Ultron when Cap couldn't, and much more easily also, and has stood toe to toe with the likes of Thor and Loki, the latter of which wiped the floor with Cap. IM's suits have also in the past took a tank shell full on, as well as a house collapsing onto them amount other things.

I like the movie a hell of a lot, but Cap shouldn't have stood a chance, whether IM was emotionally compromised or not.

I totally agree with you! This is an issue in this movie for me! And I'm really glad that someone else noticed that too.

 

[Ninjablade]

Spider-Man did hit Steve at least once, at the very beginning of their fight. After he webbed at Steve's feet, Peter kicked him into something.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Truth is, if one is so inclined they could have poked a lot of holes in all of the battles.

I guess it just comes down to suspension of disbelief and how screenplay writers face the same issues comic book writers do when these characters tangle.

 

[Tymminator]

My only issue is that once again, they killed off a potential future villian in Crossbones way to early. I feel he should have been put on the Raft. Almost all foes get killed off and I'm speaking in general for the MCU so who can they even put in the Raft. I really dig the MCU, but again, I feel Crossbones should have not been killed off.

 

[CoolCadaver49]

No, Tony clearly still holds some serious animosity, if he didn't, why wouldn't he call him right then?

Because there was no immediate threat? Steve said "whenever you need us."

Also, they HAVE to leave the seeds of possible future resolution, especially in a superhero film where the freaking bad guy won.

But Zemo didn't win. The movie tries to have its cake and eat it too. Zemo says he won, but we see that Cap is ready to work with Tony again, and Tony accepts his peace offering. What kind of Avengers break-up is that?

Tony not only read and clearly absorbed Cap's entire letter, but he keeps the cell-phone, and ignores Ross. Those three things immediately dissolve any dramatic tension that might have persisted into future films. We see Tony accept Cap's olive branch. That's not a glimmer of hope, that's a resolution to the emotional cliffhanger that this movie needed to end on. For chrissakes, at least have Stark deliberate a bit about keeping the phone. Can't we lend even a little bit of weight to the fallout between our heroes?

 

[SomeOldGuy]

That he read the letter and kept the cell phone don't mean some "olive branch" has been accepted. That's not in the movie, that's just your interpretation. As for Ross, Tony did exactly what he told Ross he was going to do. It was a callback, not a conclusion.

 

[CoolCadaver49]

That he read the letter and kept the cell phone don't mean some "olive branch" has been accepted. That's not in the movie, that's just your interpretation.

I'm curious as to what else you think that could possibly mean? I mean, that was the obvious implication of the scene. Whether or not you think that's an effective ending is up to you. But it's clear that the message at the end of the movie is that the gap in the relationship between Tony and Steve has been bridged significantly if not completely.

As for Ross, Tony did exactly what he told Ross he was going to do. It was a callback, not a conclusion.

It was a comedic way of showing that Tony is no longer answering to Ross (and perhaps, by extension, The Accords, but we don't know because the film doesn't tell us). It's not a throw-away gag. It's the last thing the character does in the movie. It's important. It finally shows that Stark has greater faith and loyalty in his former (?) friends than the bureaucracy trying to smother them. It was absolutely a conclusion. I don't follow, why is this an argument?

 

[SomeOldGuy]

We already knew he was ignoring Ross after he left the raft after failing to get his help, put on the suit and went to help Cap.

As for the phone scene, why would Tony trash two clues to where Cap is, since Steve is his only lead to Bucky, the guy he wants dead? It's an ambiguous scene and if you don't like that they ended on an ambiguous note, that's fine. But the idea it's a reconciliation is just an opinion.

 

[jp27]

I think Tony forgave Steve, because men don't hold grudges.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Because there was no immediate threat? Steve said "whenever you need us."

But Zemo didn't win. The movie tries to have its cake and eat it too. Zemo says he won, but we see that Cap is ready to work with Tony again, and Tony accepts his peace offering. What kind of Avengers break-up is that?

Tony not only read and clearly absorbed Cap's entire letter, but he keeps the cell-phone, and ignores Ross. Those three things immediately dissolve any dramatic tension that might have persisted into future films. We see Tony accept Cap's olive branch. That's not a glimmer of hope, that's a resolution to the emotional cliffhanger that this movie needed to end on. For chrissakes, at least have Stark deliberate a bit about keeping the phone. Can't we lend even a little bit of weight to the fallout between our heroes?

I couldn't put it any clearer than you did. Well said.

 

[Jaxon]

I think Tony forgave Steve, because men don't hold grudges.

Unless Cap cut his lunch

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Men don't hold grudges? I take offense to that, and will do so until my dying day!!

 

[Batmannerism]

My only issue is that once again, they killed off a potential future villian in Crossbones way to early. I feel he should have been put on the Raft. Almost all foes get killed off and I'm speaking in general for the MCU so who can they even put in the Raft. I really dig the MCU, but again, I feel Crossbones should have not beene killed off.

I loved CW but that is a good point. Crossbones is too good a Cap villain to kill off so quickly - and it could have easily been avoided (wanda could have pulled the explosives off him).

He's only in the film for about 5 minutes then boom, one and done. Just seems a waste.

Also, who stores biological weapons in Lagos ? But that's less of a problem than killing off Crossbones too early.

Otherwise CW was awesome.

 

[Batmannerism]

I liked Zemo. He wasn't the Red Skull wannabe that he is in the books, but he still maintained his "puppet master" schtick.

I liked that they dropped the ridiculous hood and costume - comic book Zemo looks like what Sir Elton John would wear if he joined the KKK.

 

[Mjölnir]

I loved CW but that is a good point. Crossbones is too good a Cap villain to kill off so quickly - and it could have easily been avoided (wanda could have pulled the explosives off him).

He's only in the film for about 5 minutes then boom, one and done. Just seems a waste.

Also, who stores biological weapons in Lagos ? But that's less of a problem than killing off Crossbones too early.

Otherwise CW was awesome.

It wasn't a weapon though, it was a research sample of a dangerous disease.

 

[gdw]

His suit didn't look very compromised at all, he flew to the finale base with no issues at all, ripped open 2 huge metal doors when he got there to get in and seemed to have no problems with the suite at all. It may have even been a different suit to the one he wore at the airport.

The arc reactor didn't receive extensive damage until after the fight with Cap started and Bucky intervened, Cap managed to damage a thruster on one foot and possibly also a blaster, but the reactor had no issues at that point.

Spider sense alone should have made a difference in the battle, throw in extra strength, durability and reflexes and the fight should at the very least have been even.

I was talking about the damage incurred AFTER he shows up in Siberia. Cap and Tony don't engage in a one on one fight until AFTER Cap and Bucky have, together, severely damaged his suit.
The reactor did not have any trouble while he was going after Bucky, at which point he was NOT fighting Cap, he was just trying to shake him off so he could kill Bucky.
Tony does not fully engage Cap until AFTER Bucky nearly rips the arc reactor out, which is what I've been saying from the start.

WHEN CAP AND TONY FIGHT one on one, Tony's suit is severely damaged. Pointing to BEFORE the one on one fight, BEFORE the damage was incurred, serves no purpose.