Civil War What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques

[Aejej]

Which is why they moved the fight to an enclosed area, where he doesn't have much maneuverability.



Weapons, most of which would have flat out murdered Cap, but that wasn't his goal. And he tried to tie Cap up. It didn't hold.



They pretty much didn't give him any time to react. And two super soldiers teaming up, are more than challenging enough, especially since he was holding back, because Cap was in the vicinity. And even with the 2 pummeling him, they still barely did any damage. Heck, Ironman basically won the fight. Bucky lost an arm, Cap was barely standing. And you have to remember, he was still holding back, because he didn't want Cap dead. He only really lost because he wasn't paying attention.



Or maybe just pay attention and actually watch carefully how they set up the entire confrontation.

Like I said above, blind rage and tactical oversight. When people go red, they get dumb. But on a level playing field, Cap and/or Bucky cannot "beat" Iron Man.

'Sides, he's got enough tricks in that armor to take them out without killing them.

 

[Aejej]

Their punches still shouldn't have had much impact either, as the Mk 3 armour with 20% power was still taking full on hits from Iron Monger with no damage in the first movie. And this is what now, the Mk.9 at least?

Yeah, the serum enables peak physical (human) strength, not Iron Monger-strength.

But that's the only way they could give CW the "darkish, emotionally charged" finale they wanted it to have.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Yes, it did, and that was it's purpose. You can't end the movie on that level of unresolved tension.
The audience would have felt 100% ripped off. The film would have introduced a conflict, and only increased the conflict, with no real resolution, by the end of the film.

While some films absolutely CAN do this, this is not that kind of film. I could see something like Daredevil ending a season like that, but not a movie about the Sentinel of Liberty.
The absolutely must be, at the very least, some tiny glimmer of hope.

See so now you're saying the letter resolved conflict - which is what we're arguing didn't need to happen. Did it happen in the Star Wars originals? No. What happened after Vader chopped Luke's arm off? No resolution until Return of the Jedi.

There is no reason this film can't play by the same rules. The feel good moment of hope was provided when Stark was helping Rhodey with his rehab and Cap busted the other Avengers out of the Raft.

 

[kguillou]

I personally would have liked a darker ending with Tony and Cap at odds with each other, like the comic ended. But, in all honesty, it wouldn't have been the "right" ending for this movie. This version of Captain America would have absolutely done everything he could, despite that brutal fight with Tony, to make amends at the end. He knows, at the end of the day Tony is a good guy who thought he was doing the right thing. It wouldn't have been the right way to end the film with them as bitter enemies even though I would have applauded Marvel for going with such a bold ending.

 

[MIKE10]

Ok, I think we can all agree that the movie was great. But the final fight is just badly written. People! just go with it! Deal with it! OK? Iron Man should have won easily (even with damaged armor, even in enclosed area, even against two supersoldiers, etc., etc....Just stop racionalizing that) That's just the fact. Cap has won because it was Cap movie. All cap fans must admit it and all Iron Man fans just have to deal with it. End of discussion

 

[Enriquespy]

End of discussion

This discussion needs to end with a better resolution, maybe with a cellphone and a letter....

 

[Dark Raven]

The main thing I didn't like about CW was that it set up those super soliders/ winter soldiers early on who seemed more than a match for Bucky. I thought they wouldn't simply be dead already when Cap, Iron Man and Bucky discovered them later on.

I was hoping they would actually be a team that the Avengers would have to fight in the end battle, or that they might even be saved for a future movie as some kind of version of the Masters of Evil that Baron Zemo might be assembling. Hopefully it could still happen, because otherwise what was even the point of that scene to suggest there were more of them out there?

 

[JB33]

The main thing I didn't like about CW was that it set up those super soliders/ winter soldiers early on who seemed more than a match for Bucky. I thought they wouldn't simply be dead already when Cap, Iron Man and Bucky discovered them later on.

I was hoping they would actually be a team that the Avengers would have to fight in the end battle, or that they might even be saved for a future movie as some kind of version of the Masters of Evil that Baron Zemo might be assembling. Hopefully it could still happen, because otherwise what was even the point of that scene to suggest there were more of them out there?

The point of it was to throw the audience way off.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

The main thing I didn't like about CW was that it set up those super soliders/ winter soldiers early on who seemed more than a match for Bucky. I thought they wouldn't simply be dead already when Cap, Iron Man and Bucky discovered them later on.

I was hoping they would actually be a team that the Avengers would have to fight in the end battle, or that they might even be saved for a future movie as some kind of version of the Masters of Evil that Baron Zemo might be assembling. Hopefully it could still happen, because otherwise what was even the point of that scene to suggest there were more of them out there?

That whole supersoldier thing was a misdirection that Zemo used to get CA and IM to show up at the bunker in Russia so he could show them Bucky's history, which he would use to tear them even further apart.

 

[Jaxon]

The main thing I didn't like about CW was that it set up those super soliders/ winter soldiers early on who seemed more than a match for Bucky. I thought they wouldn't simply be dead already when Cap, Iron Man and Bucky discovered them later on.

I was hoping they would actually be a team that the Avengers would have to fight in the end battle, or that they might even be saved for a future movie as some kind of version of the Masters of Evil that Baron Zemo might be assembling. Hopefully it could still happen, because otherwise what was even the point of that scene to suggest there were more of them out there?

Yeah the super soldier thing was dumb. Hydra didn't have a super soldier serum. What we know from the first 2 caps is that Bucky was on a table in that first Hydra base in TFA and given "something to survive the fall" presumed by cap. And that Red Skull and Armin Zola didn't have a super serum formula because they were still after Erskine's formula and didn't get it.

Winter soldier has a metal arm, is well trained but doesn't have super strength like Cap, just an enhanced arm and a lot of training. So now suddenly there's other super serum guys? That's BS.

I was also bothered by Winter Soldier at times not using the mechanism in his arm that sort of focusses the strength like he did a few times in CATWS.

 

[zmystico]

The things I didn't like...

1. (I put this on myself) Black Panther was not as powerful as I was expecting him to be, I was really expecting him to completely overpower and man handle Bucky, I also really disliked how Black Widow was able to slow him down seemingly so easy...even Clint wasn't effective with his arrows.

2. Captain America doesn't seem like the outlaw he really should be viewed as.

3. Pepper & Tony's issues...really felt out of place and unneeded...considering how much he's done to keep her.

 

[Anita18]

Yeah the super soldier thing was dumb. Hydra didn't have a super soldier serum. What we know from the first 2 caps is that Bucky was on a table in that first Hydra base in TFA and given "something to survive the fall" presumed by cap. And that Red Skull and Armin Zola didn't have a super serum formula because they were still after Erskine's formula and didn't get it.

Winter soldier has a metal arm, is well trained but doesn't have super strength like Cap, just an enhanced arm and a lot of training. So now suddenly there's other super serum guys? That's BS.

I was also bothered by Winter Soldier at times not using the mechanism in his arm that sort of focusses the strength like he did a few times in CATWS.

Um, in TFA, Schmidt took an early version of the serum that Erskine later perfected with Steve. That's why Erskine fled Germany with the formula - he didn't want Schmidt to have it. In both Schmidt and Steve, the serum did exactly what Erskine said it would - amplify the person's strongest quality. "Good becomes great, bad becomes worse" is how it's explained in the film. If you read between the lines, that's what happens with Bucky too.

Spoiler

It explains why Bucky is the only WS HYDRA could control - his strongest quality is the way he protects people, not his aggression like the other soldiers.

Bucky is enhanced. He was outrunning BP and Cap, or at least keeping up with them. No other explanation for it.

And he did focus the strength in his metal arm when he

Spoiler

pushes Steve down the elevator shaft, despite Steve trying to fight against it.

It was a repeat of what happened with the knife in TWS.

 

[Schlosser85]

Winter soldier has a metal arm, is well trained but doesn't have super strength like Cap, just an enhanced arm and a lot of training.

.....did you miss Bucky jumping down insane distances, running faster than cars, just snatched a moving motorcyle out of midair, etc.?

He is obviously enhanced similar to Cap, that was even more emphasized in Civil War than in Winter Soldier.

 

[Visualiza]

The main thing I didn't like about CW was that it set up those super soliders/ winter soldiers early on who seemed more than a match for Bucky. I thought they wouldn't simply be dead already when Cap, Iron Man and Bucky discovered them later on.

I was hoping they would actually be a team that the Avengers would have to fight in the end battle, or that they might even be saved for a future movie as some kind of version of the Masters of Evil that Baron Zemo might be assembling. Hopefully it could still happen, because otherwise what was even the point of that scene to suggest there were more of them out there?

It was a red herring, and a pretty good one. I enjoyed it in IM3, but I thought it was more effective in CW.

 

[Dark Raven]

They could have kept some alive to be used in the future. Maybe one could even have been a villain in Spider-Man: Homecoming.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Spoiler

I honestly LOVED that the Russian Super Soldiers ended up not being alive. Great red herring but also... I didn't really buy the idea that they would have been so dangerous in the first place. Sure, they could cause some havoc but given the array of powers available to heroes in the MCU I think they would have been taken care of pretty easily.

 

[ernesth100]

I didn't like the fact they killed off the other Soldiers so soon either. While yes there are powerful heroes in the MCU. I think if the Winter Soldiers lead by Zemo, all split up and caused havoc in different countries it could've been a very interesting plot. Forcing the Team Cap and Team Iron Man to split up a work together to stop them all before it's too late.

It would've been a fantastic way to start off Infinity War and get the heroes back together. But that's just me. They're dead now so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Batmannerism]

That whole supersoldier thing was a misdirection that Zemo used to get CA and IM to show up at the bunker in Russia so he could show them Bucky's history, which he would use to tear them even further apart.

Right on ! And also misdirection for the audience, subverting our expectations, nicely played Russos. -making Zemo different than a garden variety megalomaniac.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I would have liked a short scene with Hank Pym. His previously established distrust of Stark would have been a perfect reason for him to aid Team Cap.

 

[AlluAllu]

Okay then, say it's the same suit, it was still able to rip open a huge metal door with just his hands with the same suit to get in there. Cap and Bucky had to break in. Even with 50% power, he should have been able to knock Cap clean out with one punch, and then rip Bucky literally in half.

I agree that Iron Man could have ended the fight with one good punch. But he didn't get an opportunity to give one. Cap and Bucky were moving too fast.

Their punches still shouldn't have had much impact either, as the Mk 3 armour with 20% power was still taking full on hits from Iron Monger with no damage in the first movie. And this is what now, the Mk.9 at least?

The way I see it, punching Tony's armor was not meant to damage it, but to keep Tony off balance so that he couldn't fight back.


The final fight was not bad writing. All those "rationalizations" do make the scene perfectly sensible. It might not have been the most likely outcome, but it was within reason and made for a great finale. Everyone loves to see the underdog win.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I agree that Iron Man could have ended the fight with one good punch. But he didn't get an opportunity to give one. Cap and Bucky were moving too fast.



The way I see it, punching Tony's armor was not meant to damage it, but to keep Tony off balance so that he couldn't fight back.


The final fight was not bad writing. All those "rationalizations" do make the scene perfectly sensible. It might not have been the most likely outcome, but it was within reason and made for a great finale. Everyone loves to see the underdog win.

Eh... Plot armor against the guy literally in armor though... Some are tired of that kind of BS. It speaks to a lazy writing and creative mind and this was one of those times for me, and I really loved that climax in Russia. But it don't pass the smell test.

 

[Jaxon]

.....did you miss Bucky jumping down insane distances, running faster than cars, just snatched a moving motorcyle out of midair, etc.?

He is obviously enhanced similar to Cap, that was even more emphasized in Civil War than in Winter Soldier.

He was powered up for this movie by the writing.

 

[Anita18]

He was powered up for this movie by the writing.

He was clearly enhanced in TWS too, otherwise the jump off the bridge would have broken a lot of bones. (The rest of his team went down on ropes.)

And even Brock Rumlow wouldn't take a flying knee to the chest (into a van...) from Captain America and stay upright, let alone keep fighting like nothing happened.

We don't see him running in CA:TWS cause he just doesn't run as the Winter Soldier, period.

The only time you could say he was deliberately underpowered was during TFA while he was in the Howling Commandos. But we're not told what exactly happened to him when Zola was torturing him the first time. He was a sniper, he doesn't go out and engage people directly. Maybe he never had the opportunity to test himself physically.

 

[Wylie Times]

He was powered up for this movie by the writing.

He was also shown to be that powerful in The Winter Soldier.

 

[Wylie Times]

He was clearly enhanced in TWS too, otherwise the jump off the bridge would have broken a lot of bones. (The rest of his team went down on ropes.)

And even Brock Rumlow wouldn't take a flying knee to the chest (into a van...) from Captain America and stay upright, let alone keep fighting like nothing happened.

We don't see him running in CA:TWS cause he just doesn't run as the Winter Soldier, period.

The only time you could say he was deliberately underpowered was during TFA while he was in the Howling Commandos. But we're not told what exactly happened to him when Zola was torturing him the first time. He was a sniper, he doesn't go out and engage people directly. Maybe he never had the opportunity to test himself physically.

There's a scene on the hellicarrier where he kicks a guy in the chest and launches him into the air. Bucky is definitely enhanced.