The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 4

[Doc Samson]

Lomo beats Rigo, easily imo. The size and body work would be enough. No weird timing is going to throw off Lomo and the counter punching stuff won't work against someone with Lomo's workrate. They both have the same pedigree and Lomo is bigger, stronger and faster.

Gotta stop you right there, I think Rigo has a decided speed advantage, and it's part of the reason I think he would give Lomo problems. But that's just my opinion of course, I doubt we'll see them in the ring.

Yeah I agree, I don't understand all this Rigo hype. His last big fight was against Donaire more than 4 years ago, he fights once a year against cans, he's 36 years old, will be 37 when he fights again, and doesn't move up.

I don't think you can say Lomo has been killing world beaters. Far from it. Clearly, if they matched up, it would be the best competition either of them has faced to date, and again, speed kills. I don't believe it would be as easy as you & Darth think at all...

 

[Docker2.0]

Gotta stop you right there, I think Rigo has a decided speed advantage, and it's part of the reason I think he would give Lomo problems. But that's just my opinion of course, I doubt we'll see them in the ring.



I don't think you can say Lomo has been killing world beaters. Far from it. Clearly, if they matched up, it would be the best competition either of them has faced to date, and again, speed kills. I don't believe it would be as easy as you & Darth think at all...

I think Lomo wins by size alone honestly. But let's not pretend why Rigo isn't getting any good fights. He's been blackballed from boxing ever since he beat one of Arum's top guys. Arum and Rafael have absolutely killed his career.

 

[InCali]

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I agree with you that Lomo has a chance to be great. But who gets a title shot after their second fight? And the hype behind this guy who just started is crazy and I think that's one of the reasons he's criticized so much. If you look at the comments on every sports video on youtube and ESPN of his win, it's the same comment. The push he's getting this early after so little fights is crazy. I think he has the potential to be great but he should not be top P4P this early. If that's the case, then why isn't the case being made for Errol Spence who has just as much talent and potential, is undefeated and actually earned his way to title fights. I also think that's why GGG gets the hate he gets as well. It's the hype and push these guys get for fighting cab drivers and school teachers.

Maybe the hype is deserved. Of COURSE, there's a machine behind it, but let me ask you this: Who goes like 400 and 1 in their amateur career? Who beats the snot out of a world champ (later rounds which is completely unexpected of an amateur) in their second fight. You may not think he earned it, but in retrospect, it looks like an entirely reasonable decision from a skill perspective.

I don't know if you have any idea how hard it is to win everything as an amateur. When I boxed, it was 3 rounds and anything can happen in a round or 2. In order to be sure of winning, you have to be way better than your opponent. The short duration of the fight means just about anything can happen. In the pros, the competition is clearly head and shoulders above, but the fights last longer and you get less happenstance. Did you know that Jimmy Ellis beat Muhammad Ali as an amateur. Wrap your head around that one.

I think he DOES deserve to be considered top P4P because he's that good; whether he's had 10 fights or 25.

 

[InCali]

Gotta stop you right there, I think Rigo has a decided speed advantage, and it's part of the reason I think he would give Lomo problems. But that's just my opinion of course, I doubt we'll see them in the ring.



I don't think you can say Lomo has been killing world beaters. Far from it. Clearly, if they matched up, it would be the best competition either of them has faced to date, and again, speed kills. I don't believe it would be as easy as you & Darth think at all...

I don't think it would be easy, but speed slows over a tough fight. Lomo puts so much pressure on people and comes at you from so many angles that it's tough to stay away from him. Man, if he starts going after people with consistent body shots, there are going to be a lot of unhappy fighters out there.

I recognize that anything can happen when you put 2 good fighters together in a ring and you could be right, but good big usually beats good smaller. Alexis Arguello (who is an ALL TIME great) vs Aaron Pryor comes to mind. It also reminds me of why I don't think boxers should move up much in weight class.

EDIT: I think Rigo would have had a much better chance against Lomo as an amateur than as a pro.

 

[Docker2.0]

Maybe the hype is deserved. Of COURSE, there's a machine behind it, but let me ask you this: Who goes like 400 and 1 in their amateur career? Who beats the snot out of a world champ (later rounds which is completely unexpected of an amateur) in their second fight. You may not think he earned it, but in retrospect, it looks like an entirely reasonable decision from a skill perspective.

I don't know if you have any idea how hard it is to win everything as an amateur. When I boxed, it was 3 rounds and anything can happen in a round or 2. In order to be sure of winning, you have to be way better than your opponent. The short duration of the fight means just about anything can happen. In the pros, the competition is clearly head and shoulders above, but the fights last longer and you get less happenstance. Did you know that Jimmy Ellis beat Muhammad Ali as an amateur. Wrap your head around that one.

I think he DOES deserve to be considered top P4P because he's that good; whether he's had 10 fights or 25.

Rigo has a similar amateur record as well but yet he seems to be falling out of the top ten P4P even though he has faced some of the same comp. Lomo has. Paq just lost and is still in the top 10 P4P after he got beat by a school teacher.......literally. Again, I like Lomo but I think that huge push he gets when others should be getting something close to it is so unfair. Again, Spence earned his title shot in the pros and have took down some top names and is barely cracking the top 10 P4P he's quite possibly the most talented guy on the rise right now.

 

[InCali]

Rigo has a similar amateur record as well but yet he seems to be falling out of the top ten P4P even though he has faced some of the same comp. Lomo has. Paq just lost and is still in the top 10 P4P after he got beat by a school teacher.......literally. Again, I like Lomo but I think that huge push he gets when others should be getting something close to it is so unfair. Again, Spence earned his title shot in the pros and have took down some top names and is barely cracking the top 10 P4P he's quite possibly the most talented guy on the rise right now.

I'm not saying anyone else "doesn't" belong. What I'm saying is that I think Lomachenko definitely does. What I saw Saturday was the complete and utter dismantling of a very good fighter (smaller). I think a fight against Rigo plays out similarly with Rigo getting in more shots than Marriaga and winning a couple of rounds before he gets worn down. It's possible he could hold him off for 12 and get a decision, but I doubt it.

Lomo is getting better. What I saw Saturday was a guy who has made a LOT of progress from his 2nd fight. Salido should avoid him like the plague because if Lomo gets him in the ring again, he's going to be looking for revenge.

 

[Docker2.0]

Lomo is 29 so really he's almost peaking. Not sure how much better he can get. And again, I agree, I do think he beats Rigo but he should prove that in the ring. All this calling out other fights(Rigo, Garcia)and then not being able to fight them isn't a good look, especially when you are fighting cans.

 

[InCali]

Lomo is 29 so really he's almost peaking. Not sure how much better he can get. And again, I agree, I do think he beats Rigo but he should prove that in the ring. All this calling out other fights(Rigo, Garcia)and then not being able to fight them isn't a good look, especially when you are fighting cans.

I think I know what's going on and can understand your perspective on this. First off, how do boxers maximize their paydays? Ask Mayweather and Conor. You do sort of crazy things that get you noticed. I saw some of that from Lomo in the ring and he's going around telling people that nobody can beat him; that Rigo would be going down like Marriaga....etc.

He's probably not making the fights. Scum sucking Arum is and the sooner he and his ilk are out of boxing, the better off boxing will be. The problem is that there are scum suckers lining up to take his place.

Muhammad Ali was the greatest promoter in the history of boxing. He knew "just" how to get those white bigots and his supporters to pay money. "I am the king of the world!" and "I'm so pretty. You never seen a face so pretty as mine." etc. LOL.

EDIT: He may be 29 and may not get that much better, but he's improved dramatically from his 2nd fight with Salido. He's out on search and destroy missions. I really can't think of a fighter as aggressive as he is that is so good defensively. It's very, very uncommon. The point is that he doesn't need to improve to be considered one of the very, very best. He's really stepped up the offensive part of his game. He's not going in looking to win a decision and it makes for a very exciting fight.

 

[Docker2.0]

It's clearly Arum. I think Arum is holding the fights back and will do so in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijuV03ajF5I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB-Uz4QWnS4&t=10s

I think they may even be looking towards after Arum is gone because no way would Arum allow Garcia anywhere near Lomo after leaving his camp. But if you read the comments in the comment section, you will see a lot of people are beginning to despise Lomo because of his push and fighting cab drivers.

 

[InCali]

It's clearly Arum. I think Arum is holding the fights back and will do so in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijuV03ajF5I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB-Uz4QWnS4&t=10s

I think they may even be looking towards after Arum is gone because no way would Arum allow Garcia anywhere near Lomo after leaving his camp. But if you read the comments in the comment section, you will see a lot of people are beginning to despise Lomo because of his push and fighting cab drivers.

Yeah. I said earlier that the odds of a Lomo/Garcia bout are about the same as a resurrection. You seen any of those lately?

It's too bad because I really think Lomo beats Garcia. He's SO active and (wait for it t: ) comes at you from so many different angles he's almost impossible to defend. There just doesn't seem to be a pattern to his attacks.

There's one other thing that people may be overlooking. Lomo is a southpaw who also has an outstanding jab. That's not very common and is very difficult to handle. I only fought a couple of southpaws and found them rather confusing. My manager had me keep my left foot on the outside of his front foot. That gave me better angles than my opponent. An advantage that I had was that I was very tall and rangy for my weight, had a very good left jab and moved very well to my left.

The problem that Vasyl presents is that he moves really, REALLY well to either side and keeping outside of him looks to be nearly impossible. That gives him a decided advantage. He comes at you moving to his right (your left), gives you that stiff jab, then goes quickly to the body or throws an uppercut. Then comes that left cross. The uppercut he throws with either hand is nasty (and you can capitalize that).

One last thing.....his pivot. Most fighters use a pivot to get out of the way. He uses it as an offensive weapon and punishes the body from the side. Most people are used to fighting people in front of them and defending someone to your side isn't something you normally have to think too much about, but this guy will rack you from there.

OK, I'm done. t:

 

[InCali]

The talk about Rigo intrigued me so, having only seen him fight once, I went back and looked over some of his highlights. First off, I had forgotten that he is also a southpaw. That makes for a very unusual match up. Advantage....no one.

Secondly Doc, you said Rigo is faster than Lomo. He does have fast hands, but he doesn't put his punches together anywhere NEAR as well as Lomo does. It looks like he hits very, very hard, but he tends to wind up with his left and throws it more like a hook than a cross and he isn't going to get within a country mile of hitting Lomo with that punch unless he's got him hurt. Lomo's combinations are much faster than Rigo's and much, much harder to avoid. If Rigo tries to throw that windup left (I've actually seen him "LEAD" with it) at Lomo, he is going to get tagged. Lomo has better footwork and, while both are very aggressive, Lomo is more active and throws the sharper punches.

At a lower weight class, it looks like Rigo's punches have more effect than Lomo's, but I'm not sure how that translates at 130. Typically, as you move up in weight, your punches have less effect on your opponent. Offensively, I give Lomo a decided edge.

Defensively, both look very good, but Lomo's quicker combinations should translate into getting hit less.

You can look at their highlights yourself, but that's what I came away with.

 

[Docker2.0]

I kind of agree honestly. But again, I don't know why Lomo's camp doesn't take the fight. It's very winnable and it's a big name on his belt. I mean Walter's is his biggest win but if he beats Rigo, it clearly says he has arrived. But honestly, I don't see him beating Garcia. Mikey is so fundamentally sound that I can see him stopping Lomo.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He has already arrived, he is the #1 P4P for plenty of people, and Rigo got himself blackballed out of the sport basically.

 

[InCali]

I kind of agree honestly. But again, I don't know why Lomo's camp doesn't take the fight. It's very winnable and it's a big name on his belt. I mean Walter's is his biggest win but if he beats Rigo, it clearly says he has arrived. But honestly, I don't see him beating Garcia. Mikey is so fundamentally sound that I can see him stopping Lomo.

I've seen Garcia fight a few times, but went back and looked over a few of his fights. Here's what I see....

This is the same issue I see with Rigo v Lomo. Garcia is, as you say, fundamentally sound, bigger than Lomo, and I can see why someone would say he wins that fight. He hits hard in a weight class above where Lomo fights and I'm not sure how Lomo's punches translate going up in weight class, but his combinations are SO fast....look at some of Lomo's fights. He doesn't wind up to take the one shot like Rigo seems to do, but, MAN, he comes at you SO fast with his combinations....I haven't seen much like it. Just take a look.

That would be a good fight, but Garcia is noticeable slower than Lomo. I don't like moving up in class without a VERY good reason. Speed does kill, but when a bigger guy is leaning on you, it wears.

 

[Docker2.0]

I've seen Garcia fight a few times, but went back and looked over a few of his fights. Here's what I see....

This is the same issue I see with Rigo v Lomo. Garcia is, as you say, fundamentally sound, bigger than Lomo, and I can see why someone would say he wins that fight. He hits hard in a weight class above where Lomo fights and I'm not sure how Lomo's punches translate going up in weight class, but his combinations are SO fast....

That would be a good fight, but Garcia is noticeable slower than Lomo. I don't like moving up in class without a VERY good reason. Speed does kill, but when a bigger guy is leaning on you, it wears.

No arguments there. I see the fight being a 65/35 fight in favor of Garcia. I just think the size will play a difference if they actually ever meet. I'm not sure if Lomo can actually go up in size to much. We saw Roman Gonzalez go up in weight to fast and lose. Either way, he has options below and above him in weight.

 

[Fallen Angel]

In other news Paulie saying he throw a few body shots at Connor who started whimpering and had tears in his eyes. LMAO! he was hurting from Paulie Malinaggi's punches.

 

[Docker2.0]

In other news Paulie saying he throw a few body shots at Connor who started whimpering and had tears in his eyes. LMAO! he was hurting from Paulie Malinaggi's punches.

Wasn't there some kind of contract about talking about what happened in training, stay in training? IDK, I can see it being true but I can see it being part of the build up as well. Paulie is one of Mayweather's boys so it can all be staged.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Wasn't there some kind of contract about talking about what happened in training, stay in training? IDK, I can see it being true but I can see it being part of the build up as well. Paulie is one of Mayweather's boys so it can all be staged.

There was but Connor release a couple of pics of them sparring with Paulie on the mat. Paulie said it wasn't from a punch but from a shove. He's not sparring with Connor now.

 

[Iron_Stark]

I kind of agree honestly. But again, I don't know why Lomo's camp doesn't take the fight. It's very winnable and it's a big name on his belt. I mean Walter's is his biggest win but if he beats Rigo, it clearly says he has arrived. But honestly, I don't see him beating Garcia. Mikey is so fundamentally sound that I can see him stopping Lomo.

I'd say Gary Russell Jr is his biggest win. Matter of fact, him, Walters and Martinez are bigger wins than a Donaire win of 4 years ago. Beating Garcia would be bigger than beating Rico.

But I agree with you with Garcia, I favor him beating Lomo right now.

 

[InCali]

In other news Paulie saying he throw a few body shots at Connor who started whimpering and had tears in his eyes. LMAO! he was hurting from Paulie Malinaggi's punches.

Yeah....Paulie's a HUGE puncher and always has been. Honestly, I love that guy. He got by.... I don't know how, but he milked every bit of talent he had. Who knows whether all of this is BS or not, but I saw Tito Trinidad knock a guy out with one body shot to the liver. The guy completely collapsed. It was one of the most brutal things I've ever seen.

Conor is actually lucky he's fighting Mayweather and not Tito. It won't matter. I hear this and I hear that.....Conor has no business in the ring with someone of Mayweather's caliber. He's toast, but he "might" not get taken out early. If he was in the ring with Trinidad, he wouldn't last 2 minutes.

 

[InCali]

No arguments there. I see the fight being a 65/35 fight in favor of Garcia. I just think the size will play a difference if they actually ever meet. I'm not sure if Lomo can actually go up in size to much. We saw Roman Gonzalez go up in weight to fast and lose. Either way, he has options below and above him in weight.

I think Lomo wins. Garcia throws really nice combinations, but he does not have Lomo's hand speed and he doesn't put 3, 4, or 5 punches together like Lomo does. The only question to me is whether Lomo can go 12 rounds with a bigger guy. I "think" the answer is "yes". He moves so well, that he won't have anyone leaning on him for 36 minutes and seems to have more than enough stamina. If he's going to lose, it's going to be because he moves up in weight....unless Lomo fights Valdez....

 

[Doc Samson]

Secondly Doc, you said Rigo is faster than Lomo. He does have fast hands, but he doesn't put his punches together anywhere NEAR as well as Lomo does. It looks like he hits very, very hard, but he tends to wind up with his left and throws it more like a hook than a cross and he isn't going to get within a country mile of hitting Lomo with that punch unless he's got him hurt. Lomo's combinations are much faster than Rigo's and much, much harder to avoid. If Rigo tries to throw that windup left (I've actually seen him "LEAD" with it) at Lomo, he is going to get tagged. Lomo has better footwork and, while both are very aggressive, Lomo is more active and throws the sharper punches.

I believe Lomo throws more combinations as well, but I also think he's been able to do that against a certain level of competition.

Personally, I've always been hesitant to anoint boxers who haven't faced a full assortment of styles. Usually guys with huge amateur records or coming from out of the country build their name off of guys without one. Too many times once those guys get in there with someone they can't fold, they have no answer.

I think we're going to see this with GGG. From Canelo's early fights up to now I've seen vast improvements in his technique and defense. I haven't seen that from GGG because he hasn't faced anyone who made those adjustments necessary. It'll be a brave new world for him on the 16th if he can't knock Canelo unconscious within the first 5 rounds.

In short, I'll give you that, Lomo throws more combinations and he's pretty quick with it. But to me there's a big difference between doing that to guys you know can't catch up with you, and someone who can...

 

[InCali]

I believe Lomo throws more combinations as well, but I also think he's been able to do that against a certain level of competition.

Personally, I've always been hesitant to anoint boxers who haven't faced a full assortment of styles. Usually guys with huge amateur records or coming from out of the country build their name off of guys without one. Too many times once those guys get in there with someone they can't fold, they have no answer.

I think we're going to see this with GGG. From Canelo's early fights up to now I've seen vast improvements in his technique and defense. I haven't seen that from GGG because he hasn't faced anyone who made those adjustments necessary. It'll be a brave new world for him on the 16th if he can't knock Canelo unconscious within the first 5 rounds.

In short, I'll give you that, Lomo throws more combinations and he's pretty quick with it. But to me there's a big difference between doing that to guys you know can't catch up with you, and someone who can...

You could be right. Garcia would be a definite step up for Lomo. Let's wait for that resurrection and we'll find out. Personally, I think Lomo WANTS to fight Salido. When you have a blemish like that on your record, you want to wipe it off. My father lost one fight before he quit boxing. He told me he didn't train properly and had to lose a LOT of water weight (back then, the weigh in was the day of the fight). He told his manager, Jackie McCoy, that he wanted that guy again. He had 2 more fights with him and won them both.

I agree WRT Canelo's improvement. He's a very different fighter than the one who stepped in with Mayweather. That fight is going to be an interesting test for both of them.

 

[Docker2.0]

I also think Canelo beats GGG. Canelo has faced way stiffer competition than GGG and has shown fast improvement.

 

[P Supreme]

Canelo will eat up in the inside clinches, GGG too wide and wild and I agree with the above post Canelo has faced the better competition I actually think Canelo wins easy

Loved how mayweather all of a sudden feels "old" and "lost a step"
MAN I HOPE THIS EVENT ENDS UP LOSING MONEY

I'm saving my PPV $$ for Canelo vs GGG so is all other hardcore fans

You casuals are on your own in this one we can't walk you through the obvious