MCU X-Men - Part 1

[Marvel united]

Yeah, I think some people are vastly overestimating the number of X-Men that Marvel will be able to introduce and use to their full potential in their movies. Does anyone really want Forge and Sunfire's sister to be major players of the MCU for the next 2-3 phases?

Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Gambit, Rogue, Beast, Iceman, Shadowcat, Nightcrawler, Emma Frost... these are the X-Men Marvel should focus on. They've suffered enough under Fox, it's time for them to get the spotlight they deserve, and if that means that some of them have to be raceswapped then so be it.

You're right but that doesn't mean they have to use main X-Men. The B-list minority would be just as easy for Marvel to sell over those characters, their track record proves it. And they can keep the roster to 7 characters maximum to avoid "running out" of diverse characters in future films. And even if they have to race bend, they can change other b-list white mutants like Dazzler and Magik without touching the A-listers. This is a very possible way for Marvel to do this. And nobody from the A-list group gets race-swapped. Everybody wins, right?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

X-Men blue:

Cyclops
Jean
Bishop
Rogue
Polaris
Warpath

Xmen Gold:

Wolverine
Storm
Sunfire
Gambit
Jubilee
Armor

Xmen red:

Nightcrawler
Beast
Iceman
Shadow cat
Colossus
Psylock

X-force:

Deadpool
Wolverine
Archangel
Domino
Psylock
Cable

 

[Iceman]

Imagine if we getting all 4 of those lol. That would be crazy/unbelievable awesome.

 

[Marvel united]

Maybe for X-Men 3 but starting off with a team(s) that huge would be too much imo

 

[Iceman]

I thought he meant all separate films whether realistic or not. Even if it were just 2 teams with a team up after they had both had 2 films each (ie the 5th MCU X-Men team film) even that would be amazing. Doesn't feel realistic for now but nothing wrong with dreaming.

 

[Protar]

Yeah, I think some people are vastly overestimating the number of X-Men that Marvel will be able to introduce and use to their full potential in their movies. Does anyone really want Forge and Sunfire's sister to be major players of the MCU for the next 2-3 phases?

Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Gambit, Rogue, Beast, Iceman, Shadowcat, Nightcrawler, Emma Frost... these are the X-Men Marvel should focus on. They've suffered enough under Fox, it's time for them to get the spotlight they deserve, and if that means that some of them have to be raceswapped then so be it.

I am more than happy with either route, to be honest, and a proponent of race bending. But I do think there could be merit in a team composed more of minor characters, simply because of the overexposure certain characters have gotten in the Fox movies. Marvel has proven that they can make audiences fall in love with obscure characters. With the right actors, writers, directors, a z-list character like Sunpyre could easily become a household name. The MCU is not running out of steam any time soon. Later down the line, more famous X-men could be introduced, with renewed audience interest in those characters after a needed rest.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Yeah, I think some people are vastly overestimating the number of X-Men that Marvel will be able to introduce and use to their full potential in their movies. Does anyone really want Forge and Sunfire's sister to be major players of the MCU for the next 2-3 phases?

You say that as if Storm, Bishop, Sunfire, Jubilee, Warpath, and Sunspot don't exist. Major X-Universe characters, minorities, and hardly unknowns. (And frankly, yes, I would love to see Forge get his due. He's a decades old character with lots of great stories attached to him. So if you ask me if I want to see Storm and Forge's love story on the big screen, the answer is a resounding yes).

Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Gambit, Rogue, Beast, Iceman, Shadowcat, Nightcrawler, Emma Frost... these are the X-Men Marvel should focus on. They've suffered enough under Fox, it's time for them to get the spotlight they deserve, and if that means that some of them have to be raceswapped then so be it.

If you want to change their characters, then you're mistreating them worse than Fox, and not actually giving them their due. Haven't we learned a thing from the clusterf*** which was Millar's Fantastic Four with Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I thought he meant all separate films whether realistic or not. Even if it were just 2 teams with a team up after they had both had 2 films each (ie the 5th MCU X-Men team film) even that would be amazing. Doesn't feel realistic for now but nothing wrong with dreaming.

Yeah this is just a few team match ups I'd make for their own franchises its majorly unrealistic though. But would be awesome if we could get a big plot that required the x men to approach the situation all hands on deck. A threat so big and so wide spread that it requires multiple teams to take it down.

 

[Iceman]

Cyclops Jean Storm Beast Iceman Psylocke & Jubilee (as PoV character)

4 women out of 7. A-list team. Also a good dose of diversity without doing anything controversial. And you can also start off with very close to the original team 4/5 and pick up the others across the course of the film. You could also have Forge as a supporting character who is always resident at the mansion.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah this is just a few team match ups I'd make for their own franchises its majorly unrealistic though. But would be awesome if we could get a big plot that required the x men to approach the situation all hands on deck. A threat so big and so wide spread that it requires multiple teams to take it down.

Yeah what you put down is like the ultimate dream scenario leading which could lead to a seriously huge event. I love reading fan suggestions like that

 

[Protar]

If you want to change their characters, then you're mistreating them worse than Fox, and not actually giving them their due. Haven't we learned a thing from the clusterf*** which was Millar's Fantastic Four with Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm?

racebending Johnny had nothing to do with F4stic being the mess it was. It is incredibly disingenuous to blame the film's failings on that. What you're implying is that a character's skin tone is more important than their characterisation. Unless a character's race is somehow integral to their backstory, that simply isn't true. A black cyclops which actually portrays him as an integral character and a leader of the X-men would be more faithful than the white cyclops we got in the films.

 

[Marvel united]

You know, I never completely understood the notion that "race doesn't matter, he'd still be the same Cyclops" *It borderlines on the discussion of ontology, identity and philosophy because people keep wanting to split a person's physical appearance from the rest of their sense of self as if it's merely an interchangeable shell or husk. We're getting into real muddy territory here.

 

[Captain Marvel]

racebending Johnny had nothing to do with F4stic being the mess it was. It is incredibly disingenuous to blame the film's failings on that. What you're implying is that a character's skin tone is more important than their characterisation. Unless a character's race is somehow integral to their backstory, that simply isn't true. A black cyclops which actually portrays him as an integral character and a leader of the X-men would be more faithful than the white cyclops we got in the films.

A character should be recognizable based on what you expect. If they're not recognizable as the character you're familiar with, then what's the point?

And frankly, both things go hand in hand. If you don't respect the characters enough to keep them consistent with the source material, then that goes hand in hand with not respecting the property, period. Casting Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm is indicative of the general lack of interest in producing a comic accurate portrayal of the Fantastic Four, which would be the case if they start race changing existing characters. If they're doing that, then they're not interesting in bringing these characters to life as we know them, in which case that won't be the end. That'll just be the beginning of them twisting and turning the franchise until it's unrecognizable, and producing something even worse than what Fox gave us.

And once again, it's unnecessary. Particularly in a franchise which includes the likes of Storm, Bishop, Sunfire, Warpath, Sunspot, Forge, Mirage, Armor, Karma, etc.

 

[Captain Marvel]

You know, I never completely understood the notion that "race doesn't matter, he'd still be the same Cyclops" *It borderlines on the discussion of ontology, identity and philosophy because people keep wanting to split a person's physical appearance from the rest of their sense of self as if it's merely an interchangeable shell or husk. We're getting into real muddy territory here.

Yep. I'm Hispanic and you can't split that from my identity. Take that away, make me Caucasian or African-American, and I'd be a very different person. Being Hispanic, and the specific nationality which my family hails from, makes up part of who I am. My ethnicity, race, and nationality are not interchangeable with any other ethnicity, race, or nationality.

The notion that you could take Scott Summers or Hank McCoy, make them African-American, Asian-American, etc., and declare that they'd be the exact same character, is completely ludicrous. They'd be different. They'd have to be different. They'd be written different. In which case they're not the Scott Summers or Hank McCoy's which we want to see onscreen. They're new characters who just had another character's name slapped on them. In which case, what's the point?

 

[Fincher]

I've been a little indecisive on which X-Men I want the focus put on (I do want to see Psylocke and Emma Frost), but one thing I will point out is that there's likely to be both movies and television. You're probably not going to see Jean or Cyclops or Rogue on the TV shows because Marvel would want to keep their options open, so sidelining them would mean they just wouldn't be around, and there would be lesser known characters in both movies and TV. And if they did put them on TV, well, better hope you're not a purist, because you'd be seeing Cyclops and Jean on the B-squad and getting ignored by the movies.

 

[Iceman]

You know, I never completely understood the notion that "race doesn't matter, he'd still be the same Cyclops" *It borderlines on the discussion of ontology, identity and philosophy because people keep wanting to split a person's physical appearance from the rest of their sense of self as if it's merely an interchangeable shell or husk. We're getting into real muddy territory here.

Yeah, of course race matters. Otherwise they could be all white with no complaints. If it really made no difference then this discussion wouldn't even be happening. It doesn't mean that it has to totally define you but it's like the difference between being big or small or male or female. You might not even give those things a second thought but they are significantly changing your life all the same.

 

[Iceman]

And once again, it's unnecessary. Particularly in a franchise which includes the likes of Storm, Bishop, Sunfire, Warpath, Sunspot, Forge, Mirage, Armor, Karma, etc.

Storm especially as a black female and co-leader of the X-Men. And as mentioned before Psycloke is another A-lister and Jubilee too. The others could be effective supports too across a number of films and Forge could be an ever present.

 

[Protar]

You know, I never completely understood the notion that "race doesn't matter, he'd still be the same Cyclops" *It borderlines on the discussion of ontology, identity and philosophy because people keep wanting to split a person's physical appearance from the rest of their sense of self as if it's merely an interchangeable shell or husk. We're getting into real muddy territory here.

We're not talking about a real person - of course for real people our race informs who we are. We're talking about a comic book character. Even in a faithful adaptation, it is inevitable that MCU Cyclops will be different to the Cyclops of the comics. All of the MCU characters are distillations of their various comic book incarnations. So accepting that things will be different to the comics to some degree, why is race a sticking point for you?

 

[Marvel united]

Yep. I'm Hispanic and you can't split that from my identity. Take that away, make me Caucasian or African-American, and I'd be a very different person. Being Hispanic, and the specific nationality which my family hails from, makes up part of who I am. My ethnicity, race, and nationality are not interchangeable with any other ethnicity, race, or nationality.

The notion that you could take Scott Summers or Hank McCoy, make them African-American, Asian-American, etc., and declare that they'd be the exact same character, is completely ludicrous. They'd be different. They'd have to be different. They'd be written different. In which case they're not the Scott Summers or Hank McCoy's which we want to see onscreen. They're new characters who just had another character's name slapped on them. In which case, what's the point?

Exactly. I'm black and you can't tell me that I would be the same exact person if someone switched my race to White, Hispanic or full Asian (I'm half but look "black" to most people). It can be argued that it's an integral part of a person's identity. That's why subjects like this are such a hotly debated topic among philosophers and scientists.

Yeah, of course race matters. Otherwise they could be all white with no complaints. If it really made no difference then this discussion wouldn't even be happening. It doesn't mean that it has to totally define you but it's like the difference between being big or small or male or female. You might not even give those things a second thought but they are significantly changing your life all the same.

Right. This is another good point. I understand in part why saying that changing Cyclops wouldn't mean anything as he'd still have the same personality (Which is true) but on the other hand, he wouldn't be the same because who you are and what you see in the mirror plays a role in your identity

 

[CaptainWagner]

Yep. I'm Hispanic and you can't split that from my identity. Take that away, make me Caucasian or African-American, and I'd be a very different person. Being Hispanic, and the specific nationality which my family hails from, makes up part of who I am. My ethnicity, race, and nationality are not interchangeable with any other ethnicity, race, or nationality.

The notion that you could take Scott Summers or Hank McCoy, make them African-American, Asian-American, etc., and declare that they'd be the exact same character, is completely ludicrous. They'd be different. They'd have to be different. They'd be written different. In which case they're not the Scott Summers or Hank McCoy's which we want to see onscreen. They're new characters who just had another character's name slapped on them. In which case, what's the point?

Considering Michael B Jordan's portrayal of Johnny was one of the most accurate parts of that movie, that argument really doesn't have much ground to stand on.

 

[Shikamaru]

Michael B. Jordan was the one semi-good thing about that movie. Acting-wise he was never miscast.

Also while race plays a part in forming your identity, it wouldn't affect someone like Cyclops, Beast or Iceman to the point of changing their core personality. How is that different than the million other distillations superheroes get when being adapted? By that logic you can say Spider-Man is no longer Spider-Man because he's no longer a Baby Boomer.

Yep. I'm Hispanic and you can't split that from my identity. Take that away, make me Caucasian or African-American, and I'd be a very different person. Being Hispanic, and the specific nationality which my family hails from, makes up part of who I am. My ethnicity, race, and nationality are not interchangeable with any other ethnicity, race, or nationality.

Most of the changes on film you don't mind would completely disturb the Marvel characters if they were real and you showed it to them. Literally every one of the Avengers would say the MCU version isn't "them", and for changes smaller than race that you would completely overlook. That's why it's not a good idea to apply real psychology to character changes like you would to a real human.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I think the idea that some of the xmen cant be race swapped or if their skin is a different color that they are no longer the same character is ludicrous. They're fictional. They aren't flesh and blood they weren't born into this world with real DNA and history. They're drawings. Nothing more than intellectual properties that when it boils down were made to make money.

 

[sleekstereo]

A race change is going to happen. Especially after the success of Black Panther and Disney's push for more diversity among their casts in order to appeal to different audiences.

I don't know if it will be Cyclops, but it's going to be one of the main leads except Jean and Storm.

 

[Marvel united]

As long as it's not Scott, Jean, Logan or Kitty, race changes don't bother me

 

[Fincher]

A race change is going to happen. Especially after the success of Black Panther and Disney's push for more diversity among their casts in order to appeal to different audiences.

I don't know if it will be Cyclops, but it's going to be one of the main leads except Jean and Storm.

Yeah, Cyclops might be racebent, or he might be reduced in importance or removed entirely. Like some other characters, he's been in a number of movies now, and personality/character-wise he doesn't have a big hook. If he doesn't become the black/Asian/Latino character, they might apply the "we made Guardians of the Galaxy a hit" mindset and decide they can do just fine without him. And if he goes, maybe Jean goes, too.