MCU X-Men - Part 1

[Gamma Goliath]

I say the only ones safe from being swapped are colossus nightcrawler, storm and wolverine. Anyone else is fair game imo.

 

[Marvel united]

I say the only ones safe from being swapped are colossus nightcrawler, storm and wolverine. Anyone else is fair game imo.

Scott and Jean are safe too because they're one of the faces of the franchise. A race change of Scott in particular is unlikely

 

[Mad Ones]

Scott and Jean being the "faces" of the franchise is a good reason for them to get raceswapped.

A franchise "borrowing" themes of racial discrimination shouldn't have white faces representing it.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

In all honesty as of right now wolverine, Xavier and magneto are probably considered the face of the franchise. Cyclops and Jean should be the faces and they shouldn't be exempt from a race swap. The wider audience dont read the comics like we do.

 

[Marvel united]

Scott and Jean being the "faces" of the franchise is a good reason for them to get raceswapped.

A franchise "borrowing" themes of racial discrimination shouldn't have white faces representing it.

But Racial discrimination isn't the only form of oppression in the world and in America. There are many different types of marginalized groups that include white people. And racial discrimination certainly isn't the only metaphor used in the X-franchise. For one, Jean being a woman already checks off her off the list for misogyny and women's right. And her powers could be used as a metaphor for mental disability.

Scott could be considered physically disabled, he could kill any person he looks at without the function of his glasses and the reason why he can't control his powers is because of past traumatic events which caused him to have PTSD.

Iceman can be race swapped but if he's gay then there's zero need as he already checks out as a minority.

Point is, everybody in the movie doesn't need to be race swapped in order to fit into the themes of minority discrimination, oppression, bigotry and marginalized groups.

 

[Mad Ones]

People of colour can also be women, disabled, and gay!

The franchise needs to earn the Civil Rights metaphor or the X-men will continue to be out-dated.

 

[Marvel united]

People of colour can also be women, disabled, and gay!

The franchise needs to earn the Civil Rights metaphor or the X-men will continue to be out-dated.

Okay, and? That doesn't mean Scott and Jean can't be white and still be minorities. Racism isn't the only form of oppresion that is relevant to the franchise. Mutants represent ALL minorities and ALL marginalized groups

And this is the first I've heard anybody call the franchise outdated. In most of the newer comics, the social issues have taken a bit of a backseat and they don't lean anywhere near into it as much as the Claremont days but every once in a while, they will have a situation mirror the past like Cyclops turning into an extremist (and being compared to Hitler which was stupid. The entire X-Men vs. Inhumans story was stupid so meh) which I think is cool. Yeah, the stories could use more diversity but they are by no means "outdated" when they're working from an established continuity and tackling different themes.

 

[Lip]

I fear Marvel will race-change Bobby only to not make him gay.

 

[Protar]

I fear Marvel will race-change Bobby only to not make him gay.

I am not optimistic about seeing LGBTQIA characters in the X-men films, which is an incredible shame because just like the civil rights allegory, gay rights should be a major part of the films. But films with LGBT characters have a rough time in China and other nations, so the execs simply won't want to risk it. I doubt we will get more than the odd hint.

The chances of some gay X-men on television are much higher.

On that note, what are people's thoughts on an X-men TV show set in the MCU, and following a second team of less well-known mutants? My hope is that once Disney gets it's own streaming service off the ground that there could be more synergy between the MCU films and TV series. With AOS quite probably finishing in the next couple of years, an X-men TV series could be the perfect successor, in terms of a TV show which feels fully tied in to the MCU.

 

[Iceman]

People of colour can also be women, disabled, and gay!

The franchise needs to earn the Civil Rights metaphor or the X-men will continue to be out-dated.

The mutants and their struggles represent the other minorities and their struggles which is why it is referred to as metaphor. And that also makes white people sit up and take notice as they realise it could be them facing the same struggles as real world minorities if they had been born with this condition. If you start raceswapping a bunch of them of them then it's no longer a metaphor and just regular race relations. The comics are the ones that have originated this idea within their pages and for some reason haven't felt the need to change the race of their main characters (aside from Psylocke if you count that) after 60 odd years because the metaphor has been very effective.

 

[Protar]

The mutants and their struggles represent the other minorities and their struggles which is why it is referred to as metaphor. And that also makes white people sit up and take notice as they realise it could be them facing the same struggles as real world minorities if they had been born with this condition. If you start raceswapping a bunch of them of them then it's no longer a metaphor and just regular race relations. The comics are the ones that have originated this idea within their pages and for some reason haven't felt the need to change the race of their main characters (aside from Psylocke if you count that) after 60 odd years because the metaphor has been very effective.

This is kind of the point people are making though. In the 60's you couldn't really tell a mainstream story directly about discrimination against minorities, so the writers had to write about white characters from a fictional, allegorical minority group to get white readers to think.

It is no longer the 60's. In 2018 we no longer need metaphors to speak about discrimination. It is time for people of minorities - be it racial, sexual, gender etc. to tell our own stories.

 

[Iceman]

This is kind of the point people are making though. In the 60's you couldn't really tell a mainstream story directly about discrimination against minorities, so the writers had to write about white characters from a fictional, allegorical minority group to get white readers to think.

It is no longer the 60's. In 2018 we no longer need metaphors to speak about discrimination. It is time for people of minorities - be it racial, sexual, gender etc. to tell our own stories.

Fair point. But for long time readers of those comics for who those metaphors worked really well (like myself) it now would feel like selling out on that successful metaphor to just make the character a minority anyway. It’s like a mythic tale to me, like a story from a religious text that uses metaphor. By updating it you lose part of the cleverness behind it and the reason it originally worked so well. And if you want the metaphor to have an impact with those who might be guilty of carrying out that discrimination this is one of the ways. Hope some of the above makes sense.

It’s not like I am going to object to any changes Marvel makes. I’ve enjoyed Valkyrie, Domino, Heimdall and even tall Wolverine. But I’d rather the comics started coming up with many more iconic minority characters and these were then given priority on screen. For eg by creating a SLJ version of Nick Fury in the comics first the film itself had little controversy on that aspect. And I’d be fine with a Riri down the line. And I like how Cap Marvel has been prioritised in recent years ahead of her big screen debut.

 

[Protar]

Fair point. But for long time readers of those comics for who those metaphors worked really well (like myself) it now would feel like selling out on that successful metaphor to just make the character a minority anyway. It’s like a mythic tale to me, like a story from a religious text that uses metaphor. By updating it you lose part of the cleverness behind it and the reason it originally worked so well. And if you want the metaphor to have an impact with those who might be guilty of carrying out that discrimination this is one of the ways. Hope some of the above makes sense.

It made sense at the time, but it is outdated now. Racechanging Xmen in the movies wouldn't take away the cleverness behind the metaphor, because the metaphor hasn't been clever for a long time. Now it comes across as heavy-handed enough that you may as well just give the story to the people it is actually supposed to be about.

Likewise, when the X-men first debuted, showcasing white characters as minorities was a good way to get white readers to think about discrimination and maybe make them examine their own prejudices. In 2018 there is no need to do that - decent people should already be able to relate to minority characters.

Everything you are saying was true in the 1960's. But we're over half a century past that point. Of course, things should be different.

 

[Abudefduf]

Not to get too political but the last thing the world (especially the U.S.) needs right now is a movie where a bunch of white people are portrayed as the oppressed minority.

You say that as if Storm, Bishop, Sunfire, Jubilee, Warpath, and Sunspot don't exist.

Well, that might be because it's unsurprisingly easy to forget they exist, unlike the iconic characters I mentioned in my previous post... you know, the ones most people are familiar with, the ones that made this franchise so popular in the first place.

 

[Shikamaru]

It's also not just about diversity, but realism. If mutants are a global phenomenon, how does it make sense for most X-Men in the 15-30 range to be white?

If that happens I can already see the internet memes saying Cerebro was programmed by Microsoft, hence it only picking up white people.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I think the only way Scott, Jean and Logan all stay white is if they aren't the leads. They're not going to want a celebration of diversity and an allusion to discrimination and fear faced by minorities world-wide to be led by a bunch of straight, white, stereotypical hero-types.

 

[Havok83]

I think the only way Scott, Jean and Logan all stay white is if they aren't the leads. They're not going to want a celebration of diversity and an allusion to discrimination and fear faced by minorities world-wide to be led by a bunch of straight, white, stereotypical hero-types.

I can understand why people want them to change based on comments in this thread but I dont think its a foregone conclusion that Disney/Marvel is going to change the races of these three. Wolverine not a lead? Fat chance of that happening. They arent going to change his race either

It's also not just about diversity, but realism. If mutants are a global phenomenon, how does it make sense for most X-Men in the 15-30 range to be white?

If that happens I can already see the internet memes saying Cerebro was programmed by Microsoft, hence it only picking up white people.

The modern day intepretation of the Xavier School is one thats an actual school with dozens/hundreds of mutants. That is likely to be what we'll have in the film and not the original idea where there were only a handful around. Cerebro will detect all kinds of mutants and they'll likely be in the school. I dont think that will be a major concern.

 

[Mad Ones]

Not to get too political but the last thing the world (especially the U.S.) needs right now is a movie where a bunch of white people are portrayed as the oppressed minority.

Seriouly

 

[Jh7058622]

Not to get too political but the last thing the world (especially the U.S.) needs right now is a movie where a bunch of white people are portrayed as the oppressed minority.

Jewish people would disagree with you on that one bud. Also it's not just white people on the team.

 

[Spidey17]

Damn, it's crazy how many sheets are showing in this thread. Losing a lot of respect for certain posters. Just to throw it out there: Nightcrawler, Beast, Colossus and Emma are all white, period. They don't count as blue, silver or whatever. As a Latino, I absolutely HATE that Bane was whitewashed; same with Al Ghul. Nolan might've made two of the best superhero films ever (BB and TDK), but I will never forgive him for that. Just so everyone else can feel my pain, I want Cyclops to be Indian, Jean to be Latina, and Angel to be Asian.
Personally, I want the team for the first movie to be Colossus, Storm, Iceman, Beast and Nightcrawler. Those are my favorites, so that's who I want. I know Apocalypse will have to wait, but I'd love to see him eventually so Marvel could get him right.

Also, I heard a producer wanted Thunderbird gone, because he was too similar to Wolverine. Always seemed like an excuse to get rid of the Native, because Wolverine and Thunderbird weren't similar at all. They had different powers, looks, you name it.

 

[CaptainWagner]

See, Angel is one that I really feel should stay white no matter what. Him being a stereotypical "White Aryan Straight Person" is a big part of his character. I have to wonder though if they'll want to use him again.

 

[Shikamaru]

The modern day intepretation of the Xavier School is one thats an actual school with dozens/hundreds of mutants. That is likely to be what we'll have in the film and not the original idea where there were only a handful around. Cerebro will detect all kinds of mutants and they'll likely be in the school. I dont think that will be a major concern.

That interpretation of the school was only added in recent years. We don't know if Marvel will want to start with that. I mean, they might want to go back to a handful of mutants at the X-Mansion to differentiate themselves from Fox (not that they eventually they won't do an actual school).

 

[Marvel united]

IsSo now we've gone from "There needs to be more diversity" to "The leads.(Cyclops, Jean, Wolverine) need to be race swapped too!".. And that's where I personally draw the line for reasons I've already stated. I would lose a lot of interest in this version of X-Men if it turned into a literal social biopic experience. I don't read comics to be reminded of my struggle as a black man in America. I read them to escape reality and that's what I wanted the MCU X-Men to focus on. Racism, homophobia, oppresion etc are the ONLY things the Singer films focused on and for Marvel to lean even more heavily into that, putting all of their energy into it instead of telling a faithful film to the comics I grew up reading just wouldn't be for me

 

[Mad Ones]

"I want less social commentary in this adaptation of a social commentary"

Okie

Singer approached racism and homophobia with no queer characters and only token people of colour. That's really not good enough.

 

[DACrowe]

That interpretation of the school was only added in recent years. We don't know if Marvel will want to start with that. I mean, they might want to go back to a handful of mutants at the X-Mansion to differentiate themselves from Fox (not that they eventually they won't do an actual school).

Just to throw it out there, I believe that the whole idea of Xavier's Mansion being a real school and campus with hundreds of students came from X-Men (2000), specifically. It just seems like so much common sense everyone has done it that way ever since. I suspect the MCU will keep that approach, because it makes it seem more "grounded." But then again, maybe not. The MCU is more focused on the heroes, if you know what I mean, so getting away from the school aspect and making it more like a mutant counter to Avengers could help with the cross-pollination thing.