Zack is not known as an idea guy. His ideas are the very controversy we've been discussing in this thread... He's a visual master, I'll give you that. No one's saying he's terrible at framing or putting his vision on screen... quite the opposite. So why put him in a position where you're not utilizing his best asset?
I say give him The Killing Joke and let him rip those panels into a screen. But have him stick closely to the comic's storyline. That's all he needs to do, just like he did with 300.
Yeah, so after reading that I'm still not entirely convinced he wasn't going to play with some ambiguity of who the father was. I mean...it's the entire reason for Superman going bad. It's kind of fundamental to his story. I get that after they go back and alter the timeline, it would be Lois and Clark's kid. But idk...it's the entire dramatic crux of what he wanted to tell.
Well, nothing in the film actually suggests that Bruce and Lois hooked up after the events of BvS, and like @idiot09 said, this was already debunked by Snyder in a recent interview. All we need now is a fairly satisfying explanation for the bit about Bruce failing to prevent Lois's death at Darkseid's hands; and that's feasible imo.
C'mon man, word of god already said he's Clark's son, why you keep grasping at this point to argue is beyond me. Before the reveal of the whole Bruce/Lois idea, no one thought of anything on why Lois is the key, or why leaked storylines say it was Bruce's duty to protect Lois at the Batcave, which most sensible people chalk up to Superman trusting Batman enough to let him handle it while he fights Darkseid. This wasn't a thing until it the scrapped storyboards came out, and now it seems anti-Snyder peeps keeps grasping at this idea that was shot down early on to either say he's not handling the characters right, or secretly want it to happen so they can say "I told you so."
Yes, but people are discussing as if it's what's going to happen if Snyder continued the story, when he already said this is the first draft and was shot down before BvS even became a thing.
C'mon man, word of god already said he's Clark's son, why you keep grasping at this point to argue is beyond me. Before the reveal of the whole Bruce/Lois idea, no one thought of anything on why Lois is the key, or why leaked storylines say it was Bruce's duty to protect Lois at the Batcave, which most sensible people chalk up to Superman trusting Batman enough to let him handle it while he fights Darkseid. This wasn't a thing until it the scrapped storyboards came out, and now it seems anti-Snyder peeps keeps grasping at this idea that was shot down early on to either say he's not handling the characters right, or secretly want it to happen so they can say "I told you so."
Yes, but people are discussing as if it's what's going to happen if Snyder continued the story, when he already said this is the first draft and was shot down before BvS even became a thing.
Yeah: had the plan --- about Bruce and Lois --- remained the same, he --- certainly --- wouldn't have hinted at a likely romantic evolution of Bruce/Diana's relationship.
C'mon man, word of god already said he's Clark's son, why you keep grasping at this point to argue is beyond me. Before the reveal of the whole Bruce/Lois idea, no one thought of anything on why Lois is the key, or why leaked storylines say it was Bruce's duty to protect Lois at the Batcave, which most sensible people chalk up to Superman trusting Batman enough to let him handle it while he fights Darkseid. This wasn't a thing until it the scrapped storyboards came out, and now it seems anti-Snyder peeps keeps grasping at this idea that was shot down early on to either say he's not handling the characters right, or secretly want it to happen so they can say "I told you so."
OK fine, I'll let it go if you guys insist it was abandoned. Admittedly, my perspective on this is colored by the fact that I have a friend who LOVES MoS and BvS who is very pro-Snyder, but was recently completely turned off by this whole Lois idea, believes Snyder still intended that to be a "twist" and ranted to me about it. I didn't even know about all of it until he told me. We bonded over it and him finally acknowledging that Snyder had some bizarre ideas about where to take these characters, haha. And besides, if all of this is about getting Snyder's "unadulterated" vision with full creative control, it's relevant where he actually wanted to go with it all.
Regardless of all of that, I still think killing Superman in his second film, then bringing him back, only to turn him evil...whatever. What's done is done, but I still think the entire storyline of this universe was a complete mess, especially with regards to Superman.
I doubt Bruce/Lois will ever come to fruition, especially since that plan was scrapped early on when making BvS
If we are to go by what we saw in Snyder Cut of JL is that there were hints of a possible Bruce & Diana romance. Which this I do like and can get behind because this happened in the DCAU
I don’t think Snyder will do that because he seems to want to tell this story to completion. I also think he believes he can get the gang on board for it. Which maybe he can, if there is one group that has always spoke highly of him, it has been his cast. So maybe they would reassemble if he got the greenlight. Who knows?
You could maybe recast one character, but not the 2-3 that seem likely FOR NOW. So WB would need to make it up to Ray Fisher and find a way to convince one of Affleck and Cavill to return. I dont see Cavill returning unless they dont reboot Superman and make MOS2. Affleck...no clue to be honest.
BUT that doesnt mean they CANT figure out a way to get them all back. Just at this time it seems unlikely.
How about we just not have Superman go evil and get rid of the whole stupid plot point. It was a dream, leave it as such. I would rather Superman not be in the film than watch him go Injustice on the bit...
There has to be better ways to have Darkseid "win". And if people go "but that is different than in JL" point out that the Knightmare in BvS was different as well (or at least appears different since Joker is there) and just explain that time is always changing and updating. No one cares in most time travel movies if you just make the story coherent. (or hang a light on the stupidity like in Endgame)
Off topic but, do you think Nolan is throwing a hissy fit because Di$ney is now doing Day/Date for Black Widow? (with a premium price) Is this going to be what destroys the movie industry for theaters or is that only WB when they decide they have to do it.
Well, Disney didn't announce their entire slate of 2021 movies with pretty much everyone involved in them learning this from the trades, so I can't say they're there yet.
Off topic but, do you think Nolan is throwing a hissy fit because Di$ney is now doing Day/Date for Black Widow? (with a premium price) Is this going to be what destroys the movie industry for theaters or is that only WB when they decide they have to do it.
They didn't want to do this for BW, it was a last resort as governments are now backing off opening things back up, When most high risk people will be fully vaccinated by the time BW hits theaters. I think what WB did was far more radical, and this doesn't have anything to do with CBM's this is about the industry as a whole. Disney is going to lose millions on BW because of this, I get you're being tongue and cheek but this is effecting everyone. Disney already did this with Mulan and Raya and the Last Dragon. They are just doing this a few films at a time rather than whole cloth like WB did.
Sorry to get on my political soap box here, but at some point the governments need to fully open up. I realize that Europe is dealing with some specific questions over side effects to their vaccine and hopefully the three in the states can be mass produced for folks world wide. But we can't keep living in a box. We've already seen one theater chain gone as a result of the pandemic, we stand to lose everything if we don't plan an exit strategy.
Yes, this was a puff piece. And because it's a puff piece, they are going to be noncommittal. Which is why its kind of hilarious watching fans twist themselves into pretzels over a non answer about the Snyderverse. They're not committing to anything. Nor do they have to at this point.
That said, seemingly lost on people is that this wasn't just a gesture of goodwill. This got completed because HBO Max, in the midst of a pandemic with productions grinding to a halt, NEEDED unique content. They're not likely to throw half a billion dollars at him now and say "Make 2 and 3, THE BATMAN and THE ATOM. And Snyder knows that. That's probably why he's teasing the Knightmare, and did related reshoots, to highlight a lower budget option to continue his story.
I don't think Darkseid forgot about Anti Life. I think he didn't know what he had in the first place. I don't think they knew it was Anti-Life until the Motherboxes revealed that to Steppenwolf.
And I think DeSaad might have been hiding some things from Darkseid or trying to manipulate the situation a bit, though its never overtly stated. There's a "Well, we should probably give up now" tint to his "Without the Motherboxes, how will you reclaim your great prize? And his reaction to Darkseid's response isn't exactly glee.
Also, they lose points for not having Darkseid say "Have a care, DeSaad."
At the end of the day I am a DC fan. I will likely watch any major release DC has to offer. I don't necessarily need Snyder to direct the next Justice League but I hope we can jump off from this version of Justice League in some way shape or form. I just want good entertaining movies for my favorite heroes at the end of the day. I prefer Cavill superman and hope they continue with him. btw to my understanding isn't the whole Henry Cavill thing is that they're just negotiating more money? He says he still wants to stay in the role am I missing something here?
Also I want everyone to know I am black so I don't want anyone to come for me when I say that I never asked for a black superman and I feel like Warner Brother's is making a massive mistake if they abandon Cavill as superman. He embodies the character.
The only way I think black superman will work is if 1. They do it the way the comics did it and make it not Clarke Kent. 2. They hire someone people would love for the role like maybe Michael B Jordan 3. They also keep Henry Cavill as Clark Kent superman. It would be cool to leave room for them to meet too. That is the only way Black superman will work in my opinion in a way that does not look like pandering.
I think the truth that a lot of people need to realize is HBO Max greenlit ZSJL likely with no intention to continue it. They greenlit it because they were sitting on three + hours of unseen big budget footage featuring Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and Aquman and it was “only” going to cost THEM 50-70 mill to get it in shape for release. For 70 million dollars HBO Max was able to release a $300 million A list superhero blockbuster movie on their app. That was a unique advantage they had over the competition. I dont think they thought much past that but im SURE they were willing to keep an open mind so long as this thing does gangbusters for them.
And as an added bonus, they look like heroes to the Snydercut campaigners and get good press.
But again, this wasnt greenlit with the INTENTION of reigniting the Snyderverse. They greenlit it because it was a no brainer business decision.
Yes, this was a puff piece. And because it's a puff piece, they are going to be noncommittal. Which is why its kind of hilarious watching fans twist themselves into pretzels over a non answer about the Snyderverse. They're not committing to anything. Nor do they have to at this point.
That said, seemingly lost on people is that this wasn't just a gesture of goodwill. This got completed because HBO Max, in the midst of a pandemic with productions grinding to a halt, NEEDED unique content. They're not likely to throw half a billion dollars at him now and say "Make 2 and 3, THE BATMAN and THE ATOM. And Snyder knows that. That's probably why he's teasing the Knightmare, and did related reshoots, to highlight a lower budget option to continue his story.
I don't think Darkseid forgot about Anti Life. I think he didn't know what he had in the first place. I don't think they knew it was Anti-Life until the Motherboxes revealed that to Steppenwolf.
And I think DeSaad might have been hiding some things from Darkseid or trying to manipulate the situation a bit, though its never overtly stated. There's a "Well, we should probably give up now" tint to his "Without the Motherboxes, how will you reclaim your great prize? And his reaction to Darkseid's response isn't exactly glee.
Also, they lose points for not having Darkseid say "Have a care, DeSaad."
I definitely think the Knightmare could be done as a lower budget mini-series, A lot of people are thinking about this as if it would have to be two more four hour 300m dollar films, but I think if they look at the project as two to three mini-series and give Zack a lower budget (or one big budget he can spread across the projects as he feels necessary) he'd find a way to make it work.
Btw I just wanna add one thing to my prior post though. The “non comic book fan” people I’ve been talking to in real life so far who have seen it have really liked the movie and have asked “are they gonna make more? I wanna see more!”
So, I dunno about you guys and your circle of friends but i suspect theres gonna be a big contingent of people out there wondering if more is coming. Which is a very good thing.
I think the truth that a lot of people need to realize is HBO Max greenlit ZSJL likely with no intention to continue it. They greenlit it because they were sitting on three + hours of unseen big budget footage featuring Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and Aquman and it was “only” going to cost THEM 50-70 mill to get it in shape for release. For 70 million dollars HBO Max was able to release a $300 million A list superhero blockbuster movie on their app. That was a unique advantage they had over the competition. I dont think they thought much past that but im SURE they were willing to keep an open mind so long as this thing does gangbusters for them.
And as an added bonus, they look like heroes to the Snydercut campaigners and get good press.
But again, this wasnt greenlit with the INTENTION of reigniting the Snyderverse. They greenlit it because it was a no brainer business decision.
That's the thing. Fans asked for the Snyder Cut. They demanded The Snyder Cut. They didn't demand in huge numbers or even a unified voice to " Reinstate the Snyderverse".
So WB, fair or not, gave them the Snyder Cut . That's basically all fans asked for.
Now, some fans feel entitled to a direct sequel to the Snyder Cut , and are upset that WB isn't automatically giving them what they feel entitled to. But again, they didn't ask for a ZSJL2 and now are mad that they aren't automatically going to get it just because they want it.
That's not to say WB can't return to Snyder's JL story , but again, fans got what they wanted and demanded , The Snyder cut.
Probably just music thrown together for that spot, could also be scrapped music from the movie, something XL had made years ago, or just stock music from who the hell knows where.
I definitely think the Knightmare could be done as a lower budget mini-series, A lot of people are thinking about this as if it would have to be two more four hour 300m dollar films, but I think if they look at the project as two to three mini-series and give Zack a lower budget (or one big budget he can spread across the projects as he feels necessary) he'd find a way to make it work.
I think doing the Knightmare that way could work. His JL3 that he has talked about....less optimistic. That would need serious cash. But, you can do a cool Knightmare based movie on a lower budget than JL had. Just would have to be more about tension than actual action
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