Rate then Review Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[NotNickFury]

Fantastic acting from the main cast especially Letitia Wright (she had a mammoth task at hand) loved the soundtrack of this film and in particular the scene with discovering a certain world. My god..... That for me was one of the best ethereal experiences with imagery ive had in a longtime. If you didn't feel anything then you are cold as stone lool That scene alone will rival a " certain " film being released in December. Namor and the Atlantis people were badass and loved his conflicted antihero ideologies.

You can't just say "Avatar?" I mean, we all know what you're talking about.

 

[Kane52630]

It certainly felt Wakanda F o r e v e r...

My Full Review
3/5

 

[inomilan]

Loved it. They gave a fitting and emotional tribute to Chadwick, while making sure the film itself was great. The action was the biggest improvement for me from the first movie tho it does suffers from a feeling like the movie lacked a lead. But damn, Namor was really great and I liked the changes they did for the movie. A really great MCU film and while i still enjoyed the other MCU films this year, this felt like a true return to form and I hope we get more films with this tone as well. 9/10

 

[psylockolussus]

You can't just say "Avatar?" I mean, we all know what you're talking about.

Yes, it is Avatar: The Way of Water.

 

[Albright]

like Erernals the pacing was a bit slower and they did a lot of world building. That’s my kind of movie

 

[psylockolussus]

like Erernals the pacing was a bit slower and they did a lot of world building. That’s my kind of movie

The pacing of Eternals wasn't slow.

 

[OroroGambitFan]

The pacing of Eternals wasn't slow.

I agree but it was a constant complaint so for a lot of others it was slow. I liked that movie. Just so peeps don't think I love all marvel I hated Dr. strange. I can't watch the first half of the movie-- second half is ok. Different strokes for different folks!

sidenote- psylockolussus I remember ur name from back in the day on the X-men threads u and I are huge X-men fans. I think u and I used to go back and forth cuz I hated the Fox X-men universe (loved X2 and Days of future though) and u loved it all and didn't want them to move to the MCU. Did I remember correctly or was that not u??

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah but here in this forum where ur posting there isn't a single bad review up yet! Not a single person has said the movie was let down by not recasting (here in this forum yet). It's kind of remarkable that not a single person has posted and said they don't like the movie (not speaking about those other forums just this one).

Allow me to be the first then. I just did not have fun with this movie. Now, there may be some extenuating circumstances that made a lot of what Coogler did just not work for me. But, as I am slowly digesting it more, the more I completely disagree with the emotional beats he tried to convey. The first half was great, amazing. But it totally missed the target on the second half.

I need some more time to digest, but I don't see it getting better the more I think about it.

 

[OroroGambitFan]

Allow me to be the first then. I just did not have fun with this movie. Now, there may be some extenuating circumstances that made a lot of what Coogler did just not work for me. But, as I am slowly digesting it more, the more I completely disagree with the emotional beats he tried to convey. The first half was great, amazing. But it totally missed the target on the second half.

I need some more time to digest, but I don't see it getting better the more I think about it.

U can't be the first-- nobody was, that was my point! I said as of me writing this, so from my reply in back-- not forward, there wasn't a single negative review!

I wouldn't dare say no was not gonna dislike it! That would be stupid of me. We're gonna have all kinds of great opinions and disagreements-- I think that's actually encouraged.

the point u missed in my response was that it was remarkable that there were 10-17 replies and up to that point, they were all positive. I was commenting on how bizarre that was, not saying everyone was gonna like it.

 

[Sithborg]

U can't be the first-- nobody was, that was my point! I said as of me writing this, so from my reply in back-- not forward, there wasn't a single negative review!

I wouldn't dare say no was not gonna dislike it! That would be stupid of me. We're gonna have all kinds of great opinions and disagreements-- I think that's actually encouraged.

the point u missed in my response was that it was remarkable that there were 10-17 replies and up to that point, they were all positive. I was commenting on how bizarre that was, not saying everyone was gonna like it.

I think you overestimate just how many people on this site will go to a Thur night showing.

 

[OroroGambitFan]

I think you overestimate just how many people on this site will go to a Thur night showing.

How so?? I never made any guesses one way or the other.

 

[psylockolussus]

I agree but it was a constant complaint so for a lot of others it was slow. I liked that movie. Just so peeps don't think I love all marvel I hated Dr. strange. I can't watch the first half of the movie-- second half is ok. Different strokes for different folks!

sidenote- psylockolussus I remember ur name from back in the day on the X-men threads u and I are huge X-men fans. I think u and I used to go back and forth cuz I hated the Fox X-men universe (loved X2 and Days of future though) and u loved it all and didn't want them to move to the MCU. Did I remember correctly or was that not u??

Not me. I was an anti-foX.

 

[Filmfan93]

Just came back from seeing this and wow - it was easily the best Phase 4 film and one of the strongest, most serious and consistent in quality MCU films, period.

Explores the theme of grief with powerful performances from Letitia Wright and Angela Basset, along with some truly eye-tearing moments throughout the film.

Beautiful visuals and cinematography (the Talokan scenes were fantastic), some very tense action and fights and an amazing score from Ludwig once again.

Namor was badass and had some very intimidating presence and good dialogue, accompanied by an awesome fighting style and costume design.

The whole film actually had superb costume and set designs.

Only criticisms: Ross dragged the film in all of his scenes and was completely unnecessary and also Riri's suit looked cheap, plastic and something out of a Power Rangers film, which didn't fit the film at all.

I am happy that we ended Phase 4 on such a high note and not with buffoon Thor, constant screaming goats and the less said about She-Hulk, the better.

Thank you, Ryan Coogler.

9/10

 

[The Duh]

7/10

The absence of T'Challa is felt, and this film was a great tribute to Chadwick Boseman. But the film is much more unwieldy with having to do world building (introducing a whole new underwater counterpart to Wakanda with Talocan as part of the plot) and set up MCU points to be followed up on in future MCU entries (Riri Williams was America Chavez 2.0, being a plot device with the bare minimum characterization and justification for her inclusion only with a upcoming show on the way, and Elaine from Seinfield felt like she was leeching off of Wakanda Forever for Thunderbolts) on top of telling the story of how a grieving nation moves on without its leader and central figure. I did not feel the long running time, but I felt that Riri/Elaine were extraneous characters and could be removed to streamline the film. While the supporting cast was a highlight from BP1 and really brought it in the acting department in BP2 for taking center stage, at times the movie felt like it was struggling on what to do with them with no real lead character. T'Challa did get upstaged in BP1 but he was our focal viewpoint character into the world of Wakanda, and he did get some character growth in Civil War, so it was okay to an extent. The other thing that made me feel the absence of T'Challa is that Namor's whole motivation concerns a key decision that T'Challa made at the end of BP1, and with T'Challa gone we lost out on a potential ideological and personal conflict with T'Challa vs Namor. The whole Wakanda vs Talocan conflict here essentially boils down to a misunderstanding and feels forced as a result. There's a lot stacked against this film and while I lament the film that Wakanda Forever could've been, I still admire it for coming together in spite of those odds.

Some things I liked:
+The Civil War call back to T'Challa's words when Shuri says vengeance has consumed her and that she's done letting it
+Namor and his generals were pretty cool, especially in action scenes
+Better action than BP1 overall, iffy CGI aside
+Shuri going to the ancestral plane only to meet a certain someone she was not expecting
+The more somber tone with humor being used sparingly
+The Marvel logo tribute to Chadwick Boseman along with Shuri having flashbacks to all the times she's interacted with T'Challa

Some additional things I didn't like (not necessarily dislike strongly):
-The contrast in funerals between T'Challa and Ramonda. T'Challa's was a lengthy mourning and felt immortalized; Ramonda's was short and abrupt
-Riri's overall introduction was somewhat awkward, and her participation in the final battle didn't feel special when Shuri essentially armed both Okoye and Aneka with suits that have similar capabilities, only with them using melee weapons over Riri using projectile weapons
-I am willing to accept that the heart shaped herb gives the fighting capabilities that are expected of a Black Panther (the emphasis on acrobatics and melee combat) but I did wish that Shuri's overall fighting BP style emphasized her own uniqueness more compared to T'Challa and Killmonger's BP fighting styles since she's not a melee combatant pre-BP powers; the sonic cannons only helped with that somewhat

 

[Batmannerism]

It was a mixed bag.

The good:

The tributes to Chadwick Boseman, RIP, were genuinely touching. Nicely done.

Angela Bassett, is a great actress and was brilliant despite mediocre material to work with.

Dubai Gurira and Winston Duke also solid performances.

Some pretty good special effects, some action sequences are pretty cool, but others feel like weightless cgi nonsense.

The meh:

Riri is essentially a plot device. She's kind of Shuri 2.0 . Not a bad character but she's lacking the humanity and flaws that made Iron Man who he was, and an interesting character. I mean, I can buy that she's a genius but that's about all she is.
The suit looked like a cheap anime robot doll
Also she's a hero right, so it seemed a bit strange when she wiped out all those cops....

Shuri, a good effort by Leticia but she hasn't got the gravitas to carry this film, especially with such mediocre material. If anyone was going to take up the mantle of BP why not Okoye ? She's far better suited for it.


The bad:

It's slow, there's only enough story for 2 hours tops.

There are a bunch of plot holes and things that don't make sense ( and I don't mean a man who can fly because of wings on his ankles).

Namor himself ..... badly written and his whole set of motivations and plan are just nonsense. They needed a better actor to portray him as well.
I'm not a fan of the remained version of Namor, but with better writing it could have worked.

There had to be a way to create a conflict between Wakanda and not-Atlantis in a way that made sense.

In the final analysis nowhere near as good as Black Panther. 5/10.

 

[Batmannerism]

It's not as good as the original Black Panther, but that was going to be tough to pull off regardless.

It's an emotionally moving tribute to Chadwick Boseman and T'Challa and the way it explores grief and mourning is fairly well done, using that as the crux of Shuri's journey.

I just think the way it mixes Talokan and Namor just is wonky and doesn't work very well. It's not well thought out or explained. There's also a fairly big subplot that is left totally unresolved, and that's in a movie that is already close to 3 hours long. The movie feels both bloated but also incomplete.

I'm sorry but Namor is an unlikable jerk here and lacks any sort of rogue-ish charm.

Very similar reaction from me.

 

[Asharad]

Meh

 

[Ninjablade]

My initial reaction coming out of the film was that it was kind of meh, and I didn't particularly care for it. Having sat on it for a night and thought about some particular things a little bit more, I lean far closer to the I don't think this movie is very good.

Certainly some moments that standout as really well done, especially performances, but on the whole it just doesn't work for me.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

It was a mixed bag.

The good:

The tributes to Chadwick Boseman, RIP, were genuinely touching. Nicely done.

Angela Bassett, is a great actress and was brilliant despite mediocre material to work with.

Dubai Gurira and Winston Duke also solid performances.

Some pretty good special effects, some action sequences are pretty cool, but others feel like weightless cgi nonsense.

The meh:

Riri is essentially a plot device. She's kind of Shuri 2.0 . Not a bad character but she's lacking the humanity and flaws that made Iron Man who he was, and an interesting character. I mean, I can buy that she's a genius but that's about all she is.
The suit looked like a cheap anime robot doll
Also she's a hero right, so it seemed a bit strange when she wiped out all those cops....

Shuri, a good effort by Leticia but she hasn't got the gravitas to carry this film, especially with such mediocre material. If anyone was going to take up the mantle of BP why not Okoye ? She's far better suited for it.


The bad:

It's slow, there's only enough story for 2 hours tops.

There are a bunch of plot holes and things that don't make sense ( and I don't mean a man who can fly because of wings on his ankles).

Namor himself ..... badly written and his whole set of motivations and plan are just nonsense. They needed a better actor to portray him as well.
I'm not a fan of the remained version of Namor, but with better writing it could have worked.

There had to be a way to create a conflict between Wakanda and not-Atlantis in a way that made sense.

In the final analysis nowhere near as good as Black Panther. 5/10.

Exactly my thoughts as well unfortunately. I was expecting to love this after how emotional those trailers were but the movie itself left me feeling cold so many times. I just think Coogler was biting off way more than he could chew with the amount of characters and sub plots going on in this movie.

I can understand Boseman's sudden, tragic death leaving them in a difficult position but there is so much they could have cut out of this like pretty much everything involving Martin Freeman and JLD.

Riri Williams didn't need to be in this movie either even if I didn't have a problem with Dominque Thorne's performance, but she really is just an unnecessary plot device like America Chavez in MOM.

Most surpassingly though is that I just wasn't a fan of what they did with Namor in this movie or the actor's performance which honestly shocked me the most after what Coogler got out of MBJ in BP.

It just felt really messy and unfocused to me overall.

 

[kguillou]

“Messy and unfocused” seems to be the theme of Phase 4 doesnt it?

 

[KaijuDude1992]

“Messy and unfocused” seems to be the theme of Phase 4 doesnt it?

Sadly, outside of Shang-Chi and NWH I honestly think so because I've started to notice that I seem to keep having a lot of the same problems with these recent movies at least when it comes to the writing.

I don't know what it is because I'm still enjoying the majority of the Disney Plus shows so far, but its been disappointment after disappointment with Eternals, Multiverse of Madness, Thor: Love and Thunder and now Wakanda Forever which I had really high hopes for, but it just didn't live up to my expectations.

I mean if you would have told me a year ago that Werewolf by Night would be my favorite MCU film of the year I would have told you were crazy but here we are, and I'll stand by it.

 

[Frodo]

Mixed bag is pretty good term for it.

If I were grading it, I would probably give it a B.

 

[Sithborg]

Alright, lets get this down in writing.

Spoiler

Disclaimer, I recently lost a family member, so that may have colored my view on how they handled some things in this movie.

First off, they handled the death of Boseman well. And his loss was felt, but I think that loss was well handled and integrated into the story. The first half of the movie was great. But after the attack by Atlantis, it went too far. Killing off Remonda was too much. The movie became way too dour. And there is no real recovering from that. Moments that should be "hell yeah" moments are not.

The whole Shuri becoming Black Panther just fell flat. It was just glossed over on the decision to try to revive the plant to bring back the Black Panther powers. And I get what they were trying to do with Shuri's motivations, but it essentially tainted the return of the hero. The return and reveal of the Black Panther is less triumphant and slightly sinister. And the sudden about face of Shuri didn't make sense. Hell, even the victory is tainted, because the actually call out in the movie that Wakanda is going to be villainized and blamed for Atlantis' actions. Hell, the main hopeful scene at the end of the movie isn't really till the ****ing end credits scene.

I think it is kind of clear where the rewrites happened.

There is good in the movie. I loved the first half. Coogler has some great dialogue for the characters. Namor is fine, if basically neutered because Disney is afraid of sex. The choice of how they animated his foot wings is still hilarious to me. I understand they will never not look silly, but there had to be better options.

Also, why the **** was Elaine in so much of this. I still don't understand what they are trying to do with this character. I like the Thunderbolts cast, but how they are using Elaine confuses me so damn much.

TLDR: After watching this, I felt like I needed to watch Love & Thunder or Capt. Marvel.

 

[psylockolussus]

“Messy and unfocused” seems to be the theme of Phase 4 doesnt it?

Especially when you include those Disney+ shows, that wouldn't have been made in the first place if Disney didn't launch their streaming app...

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

It was a mixed bag.

The good:

The tributes to Chadwick Boseman, RIP, were genuinely touching. Nicely done.

Angela Bassett, is a great actress and was brilliant despite mediocre material to work with.

Dubai Gurira and Winston Duke also solid performances.

Some pretty good special effects, some action sequences are pretty cool, but others feel like weightless cgi nonsense.

The meh:

Riri is essentially a plot device. She's kind of Shuri 2.0 . Not a bad character but she's lacking the humanity and flaws that made Iron Man who he was, and an interesting character. I mean, I can buy that she's a genius but that's about all she is.
The suit looked like a cheap anime robot doll
Also she's a hero right, so it seemed a bit strange when she wiped out all those cops....

Shuri, a good effort by Leticia but she hasn't got the gravitas to carry this film, especially with such mediocre material. If anyone was going to take up the mantle of BP why not Okoye ? She's far better suited for it.


The bad:

It's slow, there's only enough story for 2 hours tops.

There are a bunch of plot holes and things that don't make sense ( and I don't mean a man who can fly because of wings on his ankles).

Namor himself ..... badly written and his whole set of motivations and plan are just nonsense. They needed a better actor to portray him as well.
I'm not a fan of the remained version of Namor, but with better writing it could have worked.

There had to be a way to create a conflict between Wakanda and not-Atlantis in a way that made sense.

In the final analysis nowhere near as good as Black Panther. 5/10.

Out of laziness I'll point to that this post sums up a lot of what I was feeling when watching the film.

I'd probably put Riri as a bad part though as I don't really think that there's anything positive to the character here. She's the annoying kind of a sidekick and delivered a lot of obvious jokes that were rarely funny. Certainly among my least favorite characters in the film and I think she would have been better off introduced on a smaller scale first.

As for Shuri taking up the mantle, I don't like it but I do appreciate that they didn't just throw away that it's a Panther Tribe thing. I think she's the only viable option when they chose to not recast T'Challa, although I'll always think that the latter option would have been far better. Especially given what Chadwick's brother said about it.

Okoye is always great on screen but I'm not a fan of her new suit. I don't think it suits her at all and it looks like something that would belong more with Talokan. I'm disappointed if she's going to be some tech suit superhero now instead of the badass leader of the Dora Milaje.

Overall this wasn't even close to the greatness of the first film and I don't think it's one that I'm all that likely to revisit.