30 minutes of Watchmen screened in the UK/Snyder/Gibbons on the "Squid"

[The Guard]

Well, I can't say that changing the squid ending bothers me too much, but would introducing the squid really cut out time for character development?

Yes and no. I suppose you could just go "Thank God we invented the squid creating device" and it would still sort of work, but without developing at least a scene or two to it's creation and putting that throughout the film, the squid element would feel thin and incredibly forced in. I would much rather see character stuff than scenes devoted to this story. The current Dr. Manhattan plot is actually woven quite cleverly into the script in multiple scenes and paced fairly well, so that elements of the plot are glimpsed, but it never pulls away from the story for more than a few seconds. It also doesn't feel thin because it touches on multiple themes in WATCHMEN as a plot itself.

 

[SatEL]

Yes and no. I suppose you could just go "Thank God we invented the squid creating device" and it would still sort of work, but without developing at least a scene or two to it's creation and putting that throughout the film, the squid element would feel thin and incredibly forced in. I would much rather see character stuff than scenes devoted to this story. The current Dr. Manhattan plot is actually woven quite cleverly into the script in multiple scenes and paced fairly well, so that elements of the plot are glimpsed, but it never pulls away from the story for more than a few seconds. It also doesn't feel thin because it touches on multiple themes in WATCHMEN as a plot itself.

Even in the GN the squid scences were only a few panels and at most 2 pages per every 3 or so chapters (If I am remebering correctly). They could have shown the missing writers scence on the news in one of the Heroes apartments or perhaps even when Dan is visiting Hollis or something. And the beach scence could also be added at the very least no longer than 5 minutes and then the boat scene againt 5 or 7 minutes. I think it could have been done if they stretched the running time to extend for a few minutes more.

 

[The Guard]

Even in the GN the squid scences were only a few panels and at most 2 pages per every 3 or so chapters (If I am remebering correctly). They could have shown the missing writers scence on the news in one of the Heroes apartments or perhaps even when Dan is visiting Hollis or something. And the beach scence could also be added at the very least no longer than 5 minutes and then the boat scene againt 5 or 7 minutes. I think it could have been done if they stretched the running time to extend for a few minutes more.

If it's only in a few scenes, then it's impact on the story won't be missed that much, will it? (I know, I know). The squid didn't take up that much time, no. The scene with the creators would probably last three minutes, tops, if it was included, which it likely wouldn't be, since most of the "supporting cast" doesn't get much time in the movie version. A scant few more minutes on the plot/scenes involving the squid itself. And Veidt's explanation of it is of course worked into scenes where he reveals his plans.

But hey, that's three to five minutes of things we wouldn't get to see with the other characters. That's cutting away from the characters to show what's going on with the squid/plot. There is not such a scene in the movie script. Every "reveal" of the plot takes place in the context of scenes involving the main characters.

When you think about how much material had to be excised (I went through each script this week with WATCHMEN in hand to compare, and it's shocking. Even though I've written a few of my own scripts, and know how much material I had to leave out), it makes you want those three minutes back for the characters to be fleshed out that much more.

Plus, Blake just HAPPENING to see the island the squid is on out the window, suspecting Sandanista bases, etc, swimming over to it...that's kinda lame. But I suppose that could have been adjusted as well, to what it's become in the movie version, with Blake keeping tabs on former heroes at Presidential request.

 

[War Party]

Hey Guard, have you also read the final draft from Orci and Kurtzman? Is so, how would you grade it? Just wondering since I pretty much agree with everything you've said in regards to the movie.

 

[SatEL]

If it's only in a few scenes, then it's impact on the story won't be missed much, will it? The squid didn't take up that much time, no. The scene with the creators would probably last three minutes, tops, if it was included, which it likely wouldn't be. A scant few more minutes on the plot/scenes involving it itself.

But hey, that's three to five minutes of things we wouldn't get to see with the other characters. That's cutting away from the characters to show what's going on with the squid/plot. There is not such a scene in the movie script. Every "reveal" of the plot takes place in the context of scenes involving the characters.

When you think about how much material had to be excised (I went through each script this week with WATCHMEN in hand to compare), it makes you want those three minutes back for the characters to be fleshed out that much more.

Plus, Blake just HAPPENING to see the island the squid is on out the window, suspecting Sandanista bases, etc, swimming over to it...that's kinda lame. But I suppose that could have been adjusted as well, to what it's become in the movie version, with Blake keeping tabs on former heroes at Presidential request.

I dont mean to sound like I am still complaning ( Of course the no squid aspect wil always be a what if for me) but to me its impact on the story will be greatly missed. Veidt plan was composed simply from his mere brilliance, he did not need the Doc energy or whatever the plan in the movie is. He made his own plan and it came through in the end, in the film it seems like he might need Jon to make his plans come true.

 

[The Guard]

Hey Guard, have you also read the final draft from Orci and Kurtzman? Is so, how would you grade it? Just wondering since I pretty much agree with everything you've said in regards to the movie.

That's a loaded question. It's not perfect, but they came very, very close to doing WATCHMEN justice. My quibbles are minor. Some of it is very, very good. Small parts of it feels like was written as placeholder dialogue, etc. From what we've seen of the trailers, etc, it looks like Snyder actually made it even more faithful after that draft. We'll see, I guess.

I dont mean to sound like I am still complaning ( Of course the no squid aspect wil always be a what if for me) but to me its impact on the story will be greatly missed. Veidt plan was composed simply from his mere brilliance, he did not need the Doc energy or whatever the plan in the movie is. He made his own plan and it came through in the end, in the film it seems like he might need Jon to make his plans come true.

Veidt hired scientists and artists to develop and create his plot. He hardly did it on his own. Was the plan that he/they came up with intelligent? Sure, but so is this movie one. He did need Dr. Manhattan's influence to pull off the plan in the comics, as I recall, as it was the advances brought by Dr. Manhattan's presence on Earth that made teleportation possible, although it required Jon's mind to stablize matter upon arrival.

 

[War Party]

Very interesting. We'll just have to wait and see on March 6.

 

[BestGirl]

Even in the GN the squid scences were only a few panels and at most 2 pages per every 3 or so chapters (If I am remebering correctly). They could have shown the missing writers scence on the news in one of the Heroes apartments or perhaps even when Dan is visiting Hollis or something. And the beach scence could also be added at the very least no longer than 5 minutes and then the boat scene againt 5 or 7 minutes. I think it could have been done if they stretched the running time to extend for a few minutes more.

I'm still not convinced that you need any scenes involving the missing artists. Couldn't Veidt just say that his company created these squids? Would the audience really ask "wow, where'd he come up with the design?"

 

[The Guard]

No, but then it would be very thin. It'd be akin to a line of dialogue. That's just not good enough for the villain's main plot.

The squid element isn't nearly as interesting without the angle of the island, the missing writers and scientists, etc. That's half the reason fans of the novel like the squid. Because it's created by almost complete innocents.

 

[Doctor Jones]

That's a loaded question. It's not perfect, but they came very, very close to doing WATCHMEN justice. My quibbles are minor. Some of it is very, very good. Small parts of it feels like was written as placeholder dialogue, etc. From what we've seen of the trailers, etc, it looks like Snyder actually made it even more faithful after that draft. We'll see, I guess.



Veidt hired scientists and artists to develop and create his plot. He hardly did it on his own. Was the plan that he/they came up with intelligent? Sure, but so is this movie one. He did need Dr. Manhattan's influence to pull off the plan in the comics, as I recall, as it was the advances brought by Dr. Manhattan's presence on Earth that made teleportation possible, although it required Jon's mind to stablize matter upon arrival.

Guard I have to ask. How do you get your hands on these scripts?

 

[The Guard]

I know people.

In all seriousness, they just get sent to me. Back in the day, I played the rumor mill game, and I have a few "sources" left over from that. Every so often somenoe goes "Hey, I know you'll appreciate this", and stuff just shows up.

 

[BestGirl]

No, but then it would be very thin. It'd be akin to a line of dialogue. That's just not good enough for the villain's main plot.

The squid element isn't nearly as interesting without the angle of the island, the missing writers and scientists, etc. That's half the reason fans of the novel like the squid. Because it's created by almost complete innocents.

So I take it that the cloning Jon plot or whatever the substitute plot is has been woven into the script? I mean, it's more than a line of dialogue, it's actually a developed storyline?

 

[The Guard]

Yes. It's woven into various character scenes, and there's a scene added to flesh it out a bit more. It's actually relatively clever, and relevant to the scenario of the graphic novel.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I know people.

In all seriousness, they just get sent to me. Back in the day, I played the rumor mill game, and I have a few "sources" left over from that. Every so often somenoe goes "Hey, I know you'll appreciate this", and stuff just shows up.

Lucky, lucky man.

You know people that go against their contracts of secrecy or people in high places?

What other scripts have you read beforehand? TDK, any of the SM film, etc?

Apart from Watchmen, I wouldn't want that. Though I would be tempted to read it, and as much as I want to know about it, there's nothing better than sitting down on the first night and watching a film unfold before your eyes. But that's just me.

 

[The Geek Vault]

I'm excited.

 

[[A]]

I'm excited.

Me too. But it's not related to Watchmen.

 

[the_tortel]

Aeghast, the avatar, NICE!!

 

[OctaviusINC]

Let's hope Watchmen changes cinema the way the GN changed comics.

 

[The Guard]

You know people that go against their contracts of secrecy or people in high places?p

A little of column A...

What other scripts have you read beforehand? TDK, any of the SM film, etc?

That would be telling. Most major movies.

 

[Doctor Jones]

A little of column A...



That would be telling. Most major movies.

Hmm. I take it you read the Star Trek script then? Possibly Terminator Salvation?

 

[The Guard]

I'm not a massive fan of either franchise, so no.

 

[the_tortel]

heh, sadly I've happened upon the spoilers about most of what takes place in star trek...

can't erase memories, that modern science for you!!

 

[Watson]

This is really great news in regards to the ending. And I can accept that as a decent reason for loosing the squid, but I still question how it's going to play out on screen. I know in my experience with other direct adaptations that sometimes moving away from the source can help the film while in other cases (like the in the Golden Compass where they ended the film way way too early) it can really hurt it.

 

[Sasso]

Plus, Blake just HAPPENING to see the island the squid is on out the window, suspecting Sandanista bases, etc, swimming over to it...that's kinda lame.

How is it lame? He stumbled across an island that was supposed to be uninhabited and saw boats docking there. It would of been stupid for him not to investigate it.

And we know Blake was flying to and from foreign countries for decades once he began working for the government, so it's not a stretch that he would eventually come across the island. For all we know he could of flown by it many times and the final time he just happened to fly over when the boats were there.

Life is full of coincidences and convenient moments, and even some moments that have astronomical odds against them for occurring. Manhattan's story makes that clear.

Worst comes to worst you could always use the Thermodynamic Miracle argument.

 

[BestGirl]

How is it lame? He stumbled across an island that was supposed to be uninhabited and saw boats docking there. It would of been stupid for him not to investigate it.

And we know Blake was flying to and from foreign countries for decades once he began working for the government, so it's not a stretch that he would eventually come across the island. For all we know he could of flown by it many times and the final time he just happened to fly over when the boats were there.

Life is full of coincidences and convenient moments, and even some moments that have astronomical odds against them for occurring. Manhattan's story makes that clear.

Worst comes to worst you could always use the Thermodynamic Miracle argument.

Maybe Blake ordered his pilot to fly over the island because he knew it belonged to Veidt and he was keeping tabs on him for the government. Nixon was right-wing and Veidt was famous for being a rich liberal pacifist so maybe Nixon was worried that he was using to island to train Sandinistas or something.