Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - Part 8

[cherokeesam]

Clairvoyant:

Spoiler

The implication at the end is that the Clairvoyant was never a superhuman with psychic powers, just a corrupt SHIELD agent with high level, privileged, classified information.

It was implied that it COULD be Agent Hand, but it's not 100% definitive.

The implication is also that Agent May is one of the good guys and while surveying the crew, she's not a traitor, at least not purposefully.

Here's one reason why I'm not buying that implication:

Spoiler

Earlier episodes made it a point to show that The Clairvoyant was a male. Raina had specifically asked about gender, and Po made no bones about the fact that The Clairvoyant was a guy.

 

[Hunter Rider]

 

[Gr0oT]

Here's one reason why I'm not buying that implication:

Spoiler

Earlier episodes made it a point to show that The Clairvoyant was a male. Raina had specifically asked about gender, and Po made no bones about the fact that The Clairvoyant was a guy.

Spoiler

Hand is obviously transgender!

 

[JC00]

Spoiler

Maybe.
But more likely, the big "Dramatic Prairie Dog" moment is just intended to indicate that "SURPRISE! Victoria Hand is a mole."

Also, is there any real indication that she's actually working for The Clairvoyant, and not someone else? As it stands right now, in AOS, there's really *three* factions in the power struggle right now --- SHIELD, HYDRA, and (probably) AIM, the group that The Clairvoyant seems to head up.

I'm willing to bet that the twist here is nothing more than the fact that Hand is part of the HYDRA infiltration, and is *not* tied to The Clairvoyant and AIM. The Clairvoyant is still out there in the shadows.

Spoiler

This.

The episode after this one is suppose to be the CA:TWS tie in right?

If Hand is the Clairvoyant or a part of the Clairvoyant's circle, with her being a high level agent she could have easily found out where the GH-325 was. It took Fitz-Simmons minutes to find out the location. Which Fitz used a favor to get access too. So it's not like Hand didn't have access to it. She also probably could have gotten her hands on Coulson's surgery report.

To me it seems like the Clairvoyant has some access to SHIELD but not all access.

Hand's story seems like it is more tied to CA:TWS than it is to the Clairvoyant story.

 

[TheVileOne]

Here's one reason why I'm not buying that implication:

Spoiler

Earlier episodes made it a point to show that The Clairvoyant was a male. Raina had specifically asked about gender, and Po made no bones about the fact that The Clairvoyant was a guy.

Spoiler

Raina could've been deceived as well. The implication is that the Clairvoyant is a master of deception. He set everything up to make it look like Thomas Nash was a GIFTED person with psychic powers and was behind everything. He wasn't.

 

[BlackDoomShadow]

The Clairvoyant's gender is never referred to by Po. He specifically uses only the term "the Clairvoyant" and never a specific gender. This was one of the major reasons people originally speculated he was a woman.

As for why [blackout]Hand could not access Coulson's death report or the GH325 serum, it was classified level 10. Hand is level 8. Fitz and Simmons figured it out because they're geniuses with advanced scientific knowledge who determined the GH325 is a drug that doesn't exist in any medical database, which Hand might not have access to or think or check. Also, who's to say Hand didn't just have Fitz and Simmons figure it out for her? They played right into her plans[/blackout].

 

[TheVileOne]

Spoiler

It could still be someone else. The ending didn't solidify 100% that it's Hand yet. Hand could be on another agenda entirely.

 

[kosh33]

The Clairvoyant's gender is never referred to by Po. He specifically uses only the term "the Clairvoyant" and never a specific gender. This was one of the major reasons people originally speculated he was a woman.

As for why [blackout]Hand could not access Coulson's death report or the GH325 serum, it was classified level 10. Hand is level 8. Fitz and Simmons figured it out because they're geniuses with advanced scientific knowledge who determined the GH325 is a drug that doesn't exist in any medical database, which Hand might not have access to or think or check. Also, who's to say Hand didn't just have Fitz and Simmons figure it out for her? They played right into her plans[/blackout].

actually, raina or Po refers to the clairvoyant as a HIM in one of previous episodes

 

[kosh33]

Spoiler

It could still be someone else. The ending didn't solidify 100% that it's Hand yet. Hand could be on another agenda entirely.

agreed vile one,

Spoiler

i think hand may be acting on the orders from redford in cap2, and it may have nothing to do with the clairvoyant directly
unless the clairvoyant is a part of the hydra portion of shield

 

[cherokeesam]

The Clairvoyant's gender is never referred to by Po. He specifically uses only the term "the Clairvoyant" and never a specific gender. This was one of the major reasons people originally speculated he was a woman.

As for why [blackout]Hand could not access Coulson's death report or the GH325 serum, it was classified level 10. Hand is level 8. Fitz and Simmons figured it out because they're geniuses with advanced scientific knowledge who determined the GH325 is a drug that doesn't exist in any medical database, which Hand might not have access to or think or check. Also, who's to say Hand didn't just have Fitz and Simmons figure it out for her? They played right into her plans[/blackout].

Yes, Po *does* refer to The Clairvoyant as "he" and "him." Raina specifically asks about The Clairvoyant's gender in Ep. 10.

Spoiler

Another reason why Hand isn't The Clairvoyant is the fact that The Clairvoyant's main goal for awhile now has been to figure out how and why Coulson was resurrected. On the other Hand, Victoria has been trying to figure out why SHIELD is making a big deal out of Coulson at all.

Hand is HYDRA, plain and simple.
The Clairvoyant is AIM.
HYDRA and AIM have very different motives and knowledge about Coulson and "Tahiti."

 

[Huddsy]

Yes, Po *does* refer to The Clairvoyant as "he" and "him." Raina specifically asks about The Clairvoyant's gender in Ep. 10.

Spoiler

Another reason why Hand isn't The Clairvoyant is the fact that The Clairvoyant's main goal for awhile now has been to figure out how and why Coulson was resurrected. On the other Hand, Victoria has been trying to figure out why SHIELD is making a big deal out of Coulson at all.

Hand is HYDRA, plain and simple.
The Clairvoyant is AIM.
HYDRA and AIM have very different motives and knowledge about Coulson and "Tahiti."

Was just about to say...

[BLACKOUT]Hand was ready to let Coulson stay with Centipede when they captured him on the bridge. Makes me think she wanted them to have time to actually learn what happened...[/BLACKOUT]

 

[jonathancrane]

Somewhat late in posting , but , thanks for the great pictures, Hunter Rider!

 

[hopeless]

Was just about to say...

[BLACKOUT]Hand was ready to let Coulson stay with Centipede when they captured him on the bridge. Makes me think she wanted them to have time to actually learn what happened...[/BLACKOUT]

So whose bases were they taking down whilst

Spoiler

Skye was locating the Clairvoyant's new base

?

I agree about

Spoiler

Hand being Hydra

But then whose base was it that

Spoiler

Coulson & Co recovered that serum from? SWORD

?

Did wonder about who recovered

Spoiler

Mike off the bridge since SHIELD should have been all over the place once May called them in

I think I've done enough spoilered bits for now!

 

[Huddsy]

You lost me, hopeless....

 

[JC00]

Yes, Po *does* refer to The Clairvoyant as "he" and "him." Raina specifically asks about The Clairvoyant's gender in Ep. 10.

Spoiler

Another reason why Hand isn't The Clairvoyant is the fact that The Clairvoyant's main goal for awhile now has been to figure out how and why Coulson was resurrected. On the other Hand, Victoria has been trying to figure out why SHIELD is making a big deal out of Coulson at all.

Hand is HYDRA, plain and simple.
The Clairvoyant is AIM.
HYDRA and AIM have very different motives and knowledge about Coulson and "Tahiti."

Spoiler

Ya. If Hand was the Clairvoyant or working for the Clairvoyant why would she reveal herself? Especially since Coulson is really no closer to knowing.

"Ya you just wasted time looking for me/or/my boss and have no real solid leads as to who me/or/my boss are but i'm gonna go ahead reveal myself anyways"

Just doesn't make sense. What does make sense is the episode after this is suppose to be the CA:TWS tie in. Speculation is that it is revealed in CA:TWS that Hydra has infiltrated SHIELD.

Hand = Hydra

 

[cherokeesam]

So whose bases were they taking down whilst

Spoiler

Skye was locating the Clairvoyant's new base

?

I agree about

Spoiler

Hand being Hydra

But then whose base was it that

Spoiler

Coulson & Co recovered that serum from? SWORD

?

Did wonder about who recovered

Spoiler

Mike off the bridge since SHIELD should have been all over the place once May called them in

I think I've done enough spoilered bits for now!

Spoiler

The "TAHITI" base was definitely HYDRA; that was the whole point of the "Bob, Agent of HYDRA" easter egg (the scene is totally superfluous and unnecessary otherwise....I mean, who gives a **** that a cannon fodder's name is "Bob" unless it's supposed to be an in-joke to fanboys in the know?)

Hand is probably just one cog in the gear of the HYDRA infiltration, and has no inside information about the fact that certain higher-ups and/or rogue elements inside the terrorist organization ran the Coulson operation, with Nick Fury's complicity.

Spoiler

Ya. If Hand was the Clairvoyant or working for the Clairvoyant why would she reveal herself? Especially since Coulson is really no closer to knowing.

"Ya you just wasted time looking for me/or/my boss and have no real solid leads as to who me/or/my boss are but i'm gonna go ahead reveal myself anyways"

Just doesn't make sense. What does make sense is the episode after this is suppose to be the CA:TWS tie in. Speculation is that it is revealed in CA:TWS that Hydra has infiltrated SHIELD.

Hand = Hydra

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yes, Po *does* refer to The Clairvoyant as "he" and "him." Raina specifically asks about The Clairvoyant's gender in Ep. 10.

Spoiler

Another reason why Hand isn't The Clairvoyant is the fact that The Clairvoyant's main goal for awhile now has been to figure out how and why Coulson was resurrected. On the other Hand, Victoria has been trying to figure out why SHIELD is making a big deal out of Coulson at all.

Hand is HYDRA, plain and simple.
The Clairvoyant is AIM.
HYDRA and AIM have very different motives and knowledge about Coulson and "Tahiti."

Spoiler

Fun fact... in the comics.... Baron Von Strucker of Hydra, just because the clairvoyant may be a part of AIM (no proof of AIM's involvement at all yet anyway), doesn't mean it's still not backed by HYDRA.

in IM3 Killian said AIM was a privately funded think tank. It's quite possible HYDRA/Strucker footed that bill... founding AIM. AIM could essentially be what Marvel Studios is to Disney.

 

[cherokeesam]

Spoiler

Fun fact... in the comics.... Baron Von Strucker of Hydra, just because the clairvoyant may be a part of AIM (no proof of AIM's involvement at all yet anyway), doesn't mean it's still not backed by HYDRA.

in IM3 Killian said AIM was a privately funded think tank. It's quite possible HYDRA/Strucker footed that bill... founding AIM. AIM could essentially be what Marvel Studios is to Disney.

Spoiler

Whether The Clairvoyant's group turns out to be AIM or something else, the one thing that can be said for certain is that they're an entirely different faction from the group that runs the TAHITI bunker and was responsible for Coulson's resurrection; because The Clairvoyant and his group are simply totally unaware of all that stuff.

So if it's HYDRA that runs the bunkers --- and that seems most likely, due to the SHIELD write-up that FitzSimmons was reading in the last episode, describing several known HYDRA bases across the globe --- then an out-of-the-loop Clairvoyant definitely has nothing to do with them.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Spoiler

Whether The Clairvoyant's group turns out to be AIM or something else, the one thing that can be said for certain is that they're an entirely different faction from the group that runs the TAHITI bunker and was responsible for Coulson's resurrection; because The Clairvoyant and his group are simply totally unaware of all that stuff.

So if it's HYDRA that runs the bunkers --- and that seems most likely, due to the SHIELD write-up that FitzSimmons was reading in the last episode, describing several known HYDRA bases across the globe --- then an out-of-the-loop Clairvoyant definitely has nothing to do with them.

Spoiler

which is certainly correct. Though... I also am skeptical if that were a HYDRA base... for one major reason. Would Fury really go to HYDRA to save Coulson? That fact this base deals with Aliens... could mean it's something else entirely.

I'm not sold on the fact it was a HYDRA base at all yet.

 

[Huddsy]

Spoiler

which is certainly correct. Though... I also am skeptical if that were a HYDRA base... for one major reason. Would Fury really go to HYDRA to save Coulson? That fact this base deals with Aliens... could mean it's something else entirely.

I'm not sold on the fact it was a HYDRA base at all yet.

Spoiler

Possibly the early parts of SWORD -- the space division of SHIELD

 

[Dr. Evil]

Spoiler

Possibly the early parts of SWORD -- the space division of SHIELD

Spoiler

Wasn't SWORD a Joss Whedon creation?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Spoiler

Possibly the early parts of SWORD -- the space division of SHIELD

Spoiler

That's what I was thinking... it's also touted as a medical facility... and for a SHIELD (or HYDRA base for that matter) it wasn't highly guarded at all...

 

[Huddsy]

Spoiler

Wasn't SWORD a Joss Whedon creation?

Yessir.

First published in an [BLACKOUT]Ashtonishing X-Men comic if I remember correct[/BLACKOUT]

The other thing to note...

Spoiler

Things got dicey between SWORD and SHIELD when Fury was out of the picture. So his link makes a ton of sense.

 

[Brainiac 8]

I really want them to introduce SWORD and Agent Brand, green hair and all.

 

[cherokeesam]

Spoiler

Possibly the early parts of SWORD -- the space division of SHIELD

Spoiler

I'm not at all against the idea of SWORD becoming involved; and it's certainly been referenced on one of the guidesigns inside The Hub in that one episode....plus, it seems that the GOTG rumor that [BLACKOUT]Rhomann Dey is a liaison between Nova Corps and SHIELD[/BLACKOUT] may turn out to be true...

Still doesn't explain the "Sorry about that, Bob" joke from the raid on TAHITI, which almost certainly was designed to invoke a certain Agent of HYDRA.