The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Andrew Garfield IS Spider-Man! - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]452731[/split]

 

[ThePhantasm]

Since we have threads for a lot of the other characters, I thought we maybe should go with one for our main hero as well.

One of the major letdowns of the first film, for me, was Peter Parker's characterization. He just wasn't likeable. At points he was simply mean-spirited (his jabs at criminals while dressed as Spider-Man came off more as demeaning and patronizing than witty or clever). He seemed incredibly immature. His quickness to break his promise to Captain Stacy, and his disrespectful comment about "broken promises being the best kind" didn't do any favors to my opinion of the character.

I think much of this is due to bad scripting rather than Garfield's performance. I'm hoping the characterization will be much better this time around. So to get things started: what would be some ways to improve his character in the second film? Where should his arc go from here? Do you disagree with my above analysis and why?

I'm hoping (fingers crossed!) that Spidey will be a more likeable and sympathetic character this time around.

 

[GuestStar2004]

sorry to get serious for a moment but strong cases of social awkwardness can be put down to a disability like autism which people are stuck with for life, peter doesn't have that, does that mean someone can't be socially awkward unless they have a disability? no course not there are many shy people who lack confidence which can range from very shy to abit shy

but it varies to how much someone is effected by something like social awkwardness, same with like say depression some have it bad and some you wouldn't even believe suffered from it

also like people have phobias of certain things which can range from bad to mild while others look at someones phobia and have no idea why they are scared of it

its not a case of oh you are socially awkward that means you have to have all of these

He wasn't visibly anxious or nervous in social settings.
He didn't display a lack of understanding of social norms.
He didn't act in an inappropriate or distasteful way.
He wasn't awkwardly silent or afraid to speak.
He didn't, as a result of his behaviour, have a lack of meaningful connection with others.

everyone is different, ok i'm done

 

[Spuzz]

I really dig Garfield's look and attitude but I feel that his attitude from the outset was more confident/Spidey-like than Peter-like. People can bash or praise the Raimi films but Tobey's performance was far more sympathetic since more time was spent making him seem like a real sap like the original Peter was in Amazing Fantasy #15. Now if Webb's Peter is more based on the Ultimate Spider-Man Peter then I dunno (I haven't read those comics).

I feel a combination of Tobey Maguire's Peter and Andrew Garfield's Spidey would be the absolute perfect movie portrayal of Spider-Man.

 

[Oscorp]

I agree that Tobey was a bit more sympathetic and likeable, and that's one of the strenghts of Raimi's first film, or weakness of Webb's. I do prefer the casting of Andrew though, it's just that he was written in a certain way in the first film, and I think we'll like Peter more in the next one.

 

[Loki882]

I really dig Garfield's look and attitude but I feel that his attitude from the outset was more confident/Spidey-like than Peter-like. People can bash or praise the Raimi films but Tobey's performance was far more sympathetic since more time was spent making him seem like a real sap like the original Peter was in Amazing Fantasy #15. Now if Webb's Peter is more based on the Ultimate Spider-Man Peter then I dunno (I haven't read those comics).

I feel a combination of Tobey Maguire's Peter and Andrew Garfield's Spidey would be the absolute perfect movie portrayal of Spider-Man.

How was he confident, he confronted Flash once. He still had trouble even talking to other people. Peter would stand up to Flash in the comics on occasion, so its accurate in that regard. Also, Tobey never felt like a real person, he felt like a walking stereotype, which isn't interesting.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Since we have threads for a lot of the other characters, I thought we maybe should go with one for our main hero as well.

One of the major letdowns of the first film, for me, was Peter Parker's characterization. He just wasn't likeable. At points he was simply mean-spirited (his jabs at criminals while dressed as Spider-Man came off more as demeaning and patronizing than witty or clever). He seemed incredibly immature. His quickness to break his promise to Captain Stacy, and his disrespectful comment about "broken promises being the best kind" didn't do any favors to my opinion of the character.

I think much of this is due to bad scripting rather than Garfield's performance. I'm hoping the characterization will be much better this time around. So to get things started: what would be some ways to improve his character in the second film? Where should his arc go from here? Do you disagree with my above analysis and why?

Garfield is a fine actor (though I am sure he had some input on the direction of the character along with Webb), but the writing was outright poor in many areas; Specifically Peter's "characterization". They went painfully out of their way to distance this Peter from previous incarnations and it shows as the character comes across as an amalgamation of approximated "teenage" behaviours. The fact that many posters/fans found this version of the character to be "relatable" or "admirable" says a lot about the current fanbase that this franchise has going.

They need to make it clear that Peter is learning and growing from the choices he makes. This was not at all clear in TASM. The "broken promise" premise wrote the character into a corner, and into an unfavorable light. He loses two father figures (for which he is pretty much responsible), and then what? He immediately breaks his promise to a dying man who knows a thing or two and only wants to protect his daughter's life, and we're expected to find it, what? Charming? Romantic? It makes the character come across as inept, selfish and cold. It rubbed me (and a lot of people apparently) the wrong way (Regardless of the defense that cites it as being "more realistic").

It looks as though they're going to be showing Peter's trepidations with seeing Gwen in the sequel with Captain Stacy's appearnce at the graduation scene, but this feels like something that is being unnecessarily (and heavy handedly) drawn out. We all know what the end game is going to be.

I'm hoping (fingers crossed!) that Spidey will be a more likeable and sympathetic character this time around.

Like I said, Garfield is a fine actor and he has played some wonderfully likeable and sympathetic characters in the past (Boy A, Never Let Me Go, the Social Network, etc...). It's one of his strengths as an actor. I truly hope that they evolve the character into someone who is more of a thinking, feeling human being rather than what feels like an approximation of one.

 

[Oscorp]

Garfield himself talked not too long ago about the last script not being as good as it could or something like that. So I'm pretty sure Garfield will try to improve things.

 

[Vid Electricz]

I have zero concerns with Garfield, he's a perfectly adequate actor and he's got a great, almost infectious enthusiasm for the part. I am wary of actor's praising scripts though, as Henry Cavill claimed that the Man of Steel was one of the best scripts he'd ever read- and that script was garbage.

 

[Oscorp]

I have zero concerns with Garfield, he's a perfectly adequate actor and he's got a great, almost infectious enthusiasm for the part. I am wary of actor's praising scripts though, as Henry Cavill claimed that the Man of Steel was one of the best scripts he'd ever read- and that script was garbage.

Yeah, I really love to hear and watch Garfield really live the Spider-Man role, and play with the kids and all that! It feels truly genuine!

Yeah, true. I guess we won't know until the film's out, obviously. It's fun to speculate a bit though.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I actually wouldn't like it if webbs Peter turned as goody goody as Raimis Peter, because he was unreleastic to annoying degrees of goody goody, to the point that in sm3 his landlord shouted at him for the rent and Peter reacted and to his landlords surprise had to then state something must be wrong with peter... He is a good boy, its like agh yeah we get it

I think TASM Peter having more sides to him made him more human, not even going into the fact people change as they grow, mistakes are made and we learn from them, no one stays the same

 

[Ant-manic]

How was he confident, he confronted Flash once. He still had trouble even talking to other people. Peter would stand up to Flash in the comics on occasion, so its accurate in that regard. Also, Tobey never felt like a real person, he felt like a walking stereotype, which isn't interesting.

it played better with little kids and their parents, though.

 

[Vid Electricz]

it played better with little kids and their parents, though.

Because the character of Peter Parker in TASM was sooooo subtle, layered and complex. lol. Hilarious.

If anything, TASM pandered more to little children and tweens.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Because the character of Peter Parker in TASM was sooooo subtle, layered and complex. lol. Hilarious.

If anything, TASM pandered more to little children and tweens.

Lol now your negativity about everything is just getting ridiculous

Peter was way more complex in the TASM, Toby was plain in comparison

 

[Vid Electricz]

Lol now your negativity about everything is just getting ridiculous

Right. Because when I say something negative about TASM, it's totally different than when you say something negative about SM1.

Peter was way more complex in the TASM, Toby was plain in comparison

How do you figure?

Wait, Tobey or Peter?

 

[GuestStar2004]

Right. Because when I say something negative about TASM, it's totally different than when you say something negative about SM1.



How do you figure?

Wait, Tobey or Peter?

Toby's Peter was plain, I mean he basically was this goody goody character that he a lot of bad luck and everyone treated him bad and only got angry when the villain threatened and kidnapped MJ, with Andrew he had a jokey and fun side and a side where you could see the sadness in the character and how he is trying to stay strong

And I don't have something negative about SM1 or SM2 in every thread

 

[Vid Electricz]

Toby's Peter was plain, I mean he basically was this goody goody character that he a lot of bad luck and everyone treated him bad and only got angry when the villain threatened and kidnapped MJ,

This is about as ridiculous and vapid as people criticizing Andrew's Peter for being a "skateboarding hipster". He's "plain"? "goody goody"? Excellent criticisms! lol. Surface level junk. I guess that's to be expected on these boards though.

with Andrew he had a jokey side, a side where you could see the sadness in the character and how he is trying to stay strong

Tobeys' Parker had all these things as well. They certainly weren't as in-your-face. Subtle though they may have been, they were there.

Tobey's Peter was a quiet, thoughtful, soft-spoken and modest guy. Sure he let people walk all over him at times, but at other times he was confident and assertive. Just because you personally didn't care for these traits doesn't mean the character was uninteresting or "plain".

And I don't have something negative about SM1 or SM2 in every thread

Nor I about TASM good sir. Do pay attention!

 

[Picard Sisko]

Andrew definitely resembles the Ultimate version of Peter Parker more than the 616... and I'm okay with this.

 

[sl500jazz]

In terms of Peter Parker, Imo Tobey and Garfield are about even. Raimi's Peter was depicted in a fashion similar to the way that the character was written in some of the early Lee/Ditko comics and Tobey played the part well. On the other hand, Webb's Peter is more Ultimate/modern 616/TSSM in characterization and Garfield is good at playing that type of character.

As for Spider-Man himself, imo there's no competition. Tobey (Raimi's Spidey) was good, but Garfield (Webb's Spidey) really seems to be an improvement. He has the perfect attitude and sense of humor for the character.

With regards to the whole "broken promise" thing, while it initially left a sour taste in my mouth (I do believe that it made him a bit unsympathetic to the audience), I really like the direction that they are taking with the character. Peter is a flawed human being. He is still young and has a lot of growing, learning, and changing left to do. Peter breaking Captain Stacy's promise (realism aside) was a very selfish and immature thing to do. However, this "broken promise" is something that will make him even more directly responsible for Gwen Stacy's death than he was in the original comics. Had he followed Captain Stacy's dying wishes, had he put his own personal feelings aside and done what was best for Gwen (left her alone) , she would still be alive. It's a very powerful thought, and (if done right) could lead to moments of intense guilt (maybe with the symbiote???), some deep personal reflection,and allow Peter to fully develop into the hero that we know and love- rather than being righteous from the get-go. The guilt of Uncle Ben's death is what gets him to put on a costume and fight crime, but Gwen Stacy's death allows him to fully understand the meaning of what Ben had been trying to tell him...and a hero is born. Could be an interesting angle.

 

[Picard Sisko]

In terms of Peter Parker, Imo Tobey and Garfield are about even. Raimi's Peter was depicted in a fashion similar to the way that the character was written in some of the early Lee/Ditko comics and Tobey played the part well. On the other hand, Webb's Peter is more Ultimate/modern 616/TSSM in characterization and Garfield is good at playing that type of character.

I can agree with this.

As for Spider-Man himself, imo there's no competition. Tobey (Raimi's Spidey) was good, but Garfield (Webb's Spidey) really seems to be an improvement. He has the perfect attitude and sense of humor for the character.

I can definitely agree with this!

With regards to the whole "broken promise" thing, while it initially left a sour taste in my mouth (I do believe that it made him a bit unsympathetic to the audience), I really like the direction that they are taking with the character. Peter is a flawed human being. He is still young and has a lot of growing, learning, and changing left to do. Peter breaking Captain Stacy's promise (realism aside) was a very selfish and immature thing to do. However, this "broken promise" is something that will make him even more directly responsible for Gwen Stacy's death than he was in the original comics. Had he followed Captain Stacy's dying wishes, had he put his own personal feelings aside and done what was best for Gwen (left her alone) , she would still be alive. It's a very powerful thought, and (if done right) could lead to moments of intense guilt (maybe with the symbiote???), some deep personal reflection,and allow Peter to fully develop into the hero that we know and love- rather than being righteous from the get-go. The guilt of Uncle Ben's death is what gets him to put on a costume and fight crime, but Gwen Stacy's death allows him to fully understand the meaning of what Ben had been trying to tell him...and a hero is born. Could be an interesting angle.

You make some very interesting points there! Though I never felt that Peter breaking the promise made him look unsympathetic or less likable for some of the reasons you stated:

He is still young and has a lot of growing, learning, and changing left to do. This "broken promise" is something that will make him even more directly responsible for Gwen Stacy's death than he was in the original comics. Had he followed Captain Stacy's dying wishes, had he put his own personal feelings aside and done what was best for Gwen (left her alone) , she would still be alive. The guilt of Uncle Ben's death is what gets him to put on a costume and fight crime, but Gwen Stacy's death allows him to fully understand the meaning of what Ben had been trying to tell him...and a hero is born.

 

[SpeterMan3]

I'll just say that Andrew's Peter felt sufficiently awkward to me in many of the same ways in which I am also awkward. I was able to relate pretty well. Surprisingly well, actually.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I feel exactly the same way. I share many of his querks in social situations that I feel uncomfortable in.

 

[SpeterMan3]

I'll just say that Andrew's Peter felt sufficiently awkward to me in many of the same ways in which I am also awkward.

This was an awkward sentence.

 

[Picard Sisko]

this was an awkward sentence.

LOL

"I didn't know you in fact work here, which means you know that I do not in fact work here."

 

[SpeterMan3]