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The Amazing Spider-Man It's official! Andrew Garfield to play Spider-Man! - Part 2

People are complaining about the basketball scene, for me, with the exception of the bridge that was the best scene in the movie. Peter is a wise arse, THAT is his character, he doesn't BECOME a wise arse when he puts on the costume he 'IS' a wise arse.

Spider-Man wasn't a wise arse to me in this movie though. He was just a JERK. Wise arse Spidey is awesome and lovable ... I didn't find him to be lovable at all in this movie.

The quips in the car thief scene bothered me because of how MEAN Spider-Man came across. Yeah, he says stuff to get under the bad guy's skin all of the time, but the bad guys usually deserve it and Spidey has fun with it. Not that a car thief is the victim here, but Spider-Man was being completely selfish and a bully. Spider-Man isn't supposed to be a bully ... And Spider-Man isn't supposed to be vengeful either ... All in all, the scene was a mess, in my opinion.

As for the quips in the school fight against the Lizard, I thought those were fine. They were lighthearted quips while fighting. That scene worked for me.

The basketball scene didn't bother me too much, among other things. I don't mind a scene with him showing off before he learns about responsibility. I mean, most people would do something to show off if they got those powers, haha.
 
I've seen peter;

* nearly break a doctor's neck because he was angry the doctor wouldn't save aunt may.
* break a crook's hand when he wouldn't give him information on aunt may's killer
* beat crooks nearly to death when in a blind rage

Let's not make out that Spidey/Peter is always whiter than white

Yes, those instances were all in the heat of the moment. In this movie, it looked like Spider-Man was PLANNING on doing something bad if the car thief had been Uncle Ben's killer. There's a difference.
 
The quips in the car thief scene bothered me because of how MEAN Spider-Man came across. Yeah, he says stuff to get under the bad guy's skin all of the time, but the bad guys usually deserve it and Spidey has fun with it. Not that a car thief is the victim here, but Spider-Man was being completely selfish and a bully. Spider-Man isn't supposed to be a bully ... And Spider-Man isn't supposed to be vengeful either ... All in all, the scene was a mess, in my opinion.
He's supposed to be a bully in that scene. It's part of his character's progression. This Spider-Man doesn't flip a switch between SELFISH and NOBLE. He hasn't learned his lesson by this point. As you said, by the time we get to the school fight, he's light-hearted and funny. Because he's learned to be a hero by then.
 
Spider-Man wasn't a wise arse to me in this movie though. He was just a JERK. Wise arse Spidey is awesome and lovable ... I didn't find him to be lovable at all in this movie.

The quips in the car thief scene bothered me because of how MEAN Spider-Man came across. Yeah, he says stuff to get under the bad guy's skin all of the time, but the bad guys usually deserve it and Spidey has fun with it. Not that a car thief is the victim here, but Spider-Man was being completely selfish and a bully. Spider-Man isn't supposed to be a bully ... And Spider-Man isn't supposed to be vengeful either ... All in all, the scene was a mess, in my opinion.

As for the quips in the school fight against the Lizard, I thought those were fine. They were lighthearted quips while fighting. That scene worked for me.

The basketball scene didn't bother me too much, among other things. I don't mind a scene with him showing off before he learns about responsibility. I mean, most people would do something to show off if they got those powers, haha.


Interesting...
For me, I love the quips to the crook because they are being delivered with attitude but don't like (or rather like less) the quips being said to Lizard as they don't pack the same weight.

People can shot me down in flames I don't care, but I've seen 4 Spider-man movies now (5 if you include the 70's movie) and my favorite spidey moment on film is spidey taking down that cab crook and running from the police. That is how I imagine spidey looking, sounding and moving when I read the comics as a kid.
 
And that right there is the opposite of Spider-Man. I got MAD at that part.

Really? How did you react when Tobey let uncle Ben's killer trip backwards and fall to his death without making the slightest effort to try and save him. That to me was as far removed from PP as you can get.
 
Really? How did you react when Tobey let uncle Ben's killer trip backwards and fall to his death without making the slightest effort to try and save him. That to me was as far removed from PP as you can get.

You can argue he is in shock.
 
He's supposed to be a bully in that scene. It's part of his character's progression. This Spider-Man doesn't flip a switch between SELFISH and NOBLE. He hasn't learned his lesson by this point. As you said, by the time we get to the school fight, he's light-hearted and funny. Because he's learned to be a hero by then.

He should have learned his lesson after Uncle Ben died. It shouldn't have taken Captain Stacy's (justified) ranting to change his tone. The guilt of Ben's death shaped Spider-Man into being the hero he is ... Oh yeah, wait: I got no vibe in this movie that Peter felt responsible for Ben's death.

There isn't one point in the movie where Peter feels responsible for Ben's death. It was all about catching the guy who did it. If anything, Peter is even MORE responsible in this movie because he was being a jerk to the clerk at the convenience store from the get-go. The clerk didn't even screw him over, and he doesn't catch the thief. There isn't a scene in the movie that made me believe that Peter felt guilt, and that's just wrong to me.
 
Really? How did you react when Tobey let uncle Ben's killer trip backwards and fall to his death without making the slightest effort to try and save him. That to me was as far removed from PP as you can get.

Like spider-neil said, I got the vibe that he was in complete shock.
 
The only reason I really didn't have an issue with the carjacker scene is because they're basically giving you the origin of his trademarking quipping right there. It's birthed due to a tragic event in his life and it starts out as kind of cruel and humiliating, but evolves into what we know and love.
 
Spider-Man wasn't a wise arse to me in this movie though. He was just a JERK. Wise arse Spidey is awesome and lovable ... I didn't find him to be lovable at all in this movie.

The quips in the car thief scene bothered me because of how MEAN Spider-Man came across. Yeah, he says stuff to get under the bad guy's skin all of the time, but the bad guys usually deserve it and Spidey has fun with it. Not that a car thief is the victim here, but Spider-Man was being completely selfish and a bully. Spider-Man isn't supposed to be a bully ... And Spider-Man isn't supposed to be vengeful either ... All in all, the scene was a mess, in my opinion.

As for the quips in the school fight against the Lizard, I thought those were fine. They were lighthearted quips while fighting. That scene worked for me.

The basketball scene didn't bother me too much, among other things. I don't mind a scene with him showing off before he learns about responsibility. I mean, most people would do something to show off if they got those powers, haha.

Spider-Man isn't supposed to be vengeful?? Dude, have you read the early comics by Lee??? Peter was very vengeful, hell he was even spiteful at times. Lets not dismiss the fact that, Peter at this stage is behaving in a way that many of us would and that's something we can understand but throughout the movie he learns valuable lessons about himself and the most glaring one is when Captain Stacy goes off on one at the dinner table about how selfish and self-serving spider-man is being. You can see it in Peter's face that Georgie-boy is making a lot of sense and making Peter re-evaluate how he's been behaving.
 
Spider-Man isn't supposed to be vengeful?? Dude, have you read the early comics by Lee??? Peter was very vengeful, hell he was even spiteful at times. Lets not dismiss the fact that, Peter at this stage is behaving in a way that many of us would and that's something we can understand but throughout the movie he learns valuable lessons about himself and the most glaring one is when Captain Stacy goes off on one at the dinner table about how selfish and self-serving spider-man is being. You can see it in Peter's face that Georgie-boy is making a lot of sense and making Peter re-evaluate how he's been behaving.

Spider-Man did have those negative feelings in the early comics, of course ... But let's not forget that a lot of it was self-loathing because of, again, the guilt of Uncle Ben's death. It's a constant struggle for Spider-Man, which is a dynamic about the character that I do love. He's still LIKABLE and RELATABLE though, because he always tries to do the right thing, even if he messes up. That makes him human, but still a good person. I didn't get that with Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man at all. He started off as a jerk in the movie, and the movie ended with him being a jerk too (but that's a whole other topic).

And again, I will say that I got no vibe that Peter felt responsible for Ben's death in this movie, and that bothers me greatly. Captain Stacy's words shouldn't have been the impact on Spidey trying to shape himself, it should have been Uncle Ben's words.
 
Spider-Man isn't supposed to be vengeful?? Dude, have you read the early comics by Lee??? Peter was very vengeful, hell he was even spiteful at times. Lets not dismiss the fact that, Peter at this stage is behaving in a way that many of us would and that's something we can understand but throughout the movie he learns valuable lessons about himself and the most glaring one is when Captain Stacy goes off on one at the dinner table about how selfish and self-serving spider-man is being. You can see it in Peter's face that Georgie-boy is making a lot of sense and making Peter re-evaluate how he's been behaving.

If anything Pete is showing amazing restaint. In the movie they establish how stong he is and all Pete is doing is cracking wise, okay,
if the guy had a star on his wrist...
things might have been different.
 
I don't buy that. Peter just happily let him die as far as I'm concerned and that to me was a big no-no.

Happily? No way. After he escapes from the cops, you see him crying. He obviously didn't feel good about anything ...
 
Happily? No way. After he escapes from the cops, you see him crying. He obviously didn't feel good about anything ...

He's crying because his uncle is dead, I don't think there is a hint of remorse for the killer and when the killer dies whilst not 'happy' you can see it in his face he is clearly not sad the killer is dead.
 
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He's crying because his uncle is, I don't think there is a hint of remorse for the killer and when the killer dies whilst not 'happy' you can see it in his face he is clearly not sad the killer is dead.

I don't think he's sad the killer died, but he feels like garbage about the whole situation.

After he found out who the killer was, I really do believe was in shock, and did what he needed to to defend himself. After everything happened and he got away from the cops, he had time to let everything sink in. At least that's what I got from it.
 
He should have learned his lesson after Uncle Ben died. It shouldn't have taken Captain Stacy's (justified) ranting to change his tone. The guilt of Ben's death shaped Spider-Man into being the hero he is ... Oh yeah, wait: I got no vibe in this movie that Peter felt responsible for Ben's death.
Don't you realize how ridiculous that is, though? That one singular event is suddenly going to make a teenager into a selfless hero? No one is like that. Peter's progression is far more believable than if he suddenly became a hero. Even SM1 showed Peter going through the anger when he confronted the killer.
 
Don't you realize how ridiculous that is, though? That one singular event is suddenly going to make a teenager into a selfless hero? No one is like that. Peter's progression is far more believable than if he suddenly became a hero. Even SM1 showed Peter going through the anger when he confronted the killer.

I have to agree, I buy the slower progression of change far more in this movie than the Raimi movie even though the Raimi movie is closer to the comics.
 
I have to agree, I buy the slower progression of change far more in this movie than the Raimi movie even though the Raimi movie is closer to the comics.
The comics did what they did because they have 20-some pages to tell the entire origin story. Therefore, you need to tie up the loose ends by that point. Movies have the advantage of time, which lets them explore things in more depth.
 
Don't you realize how ridiculous that is, though? That one singular event is suddenly going to make a teenager into a selfless hero? No one is like that. Peter's progression is far more believable than if he suddenly became a hero. Even SM1 showed Peter going through the anger when he confronted the killer.

Spider-Man screws up once in a while, I get that ... And I love that about Spider-Man. He constantly TRIES to do the right thing though, because of Uncle Ben's words. He's trying to do the best he can.

The anger Peter went through in SM1 when he confronted the killer wasn't strategy, and it wasn't a plan. That was a guy who's going through heavy emotions and acting on them with not much time to process all that's going on. Spidey in TASM is specifically planning vengeance.

And I'm going to sound like a broken record, but Spidey in TASM didn't feel guilt or responsible for Uncle Ben's death, and again, I'm going to express how much that bothers me and how much I feel it ruins the character of Spider-Man.
 
And I'm going to sound like a broken record, but Spidey in TASM didn't feel guilt or responsible for Uncle Ben's death, and again, I'm going to express how much that bothers me and how much I feel it ruins the character of Spider-Man.
I really don't know where you're getting this. It's right there on his face as soon as he realizes what happened. And the fact that he can't even bear to listen to the voice-mail Uncle Ben left after he stormed out on him. Did you want him actually saying the words, "it's my fault?"
 
Spider-Man did have those negative feelings in the early comics, of course ... But let's not forget that a lot of it was self-loathing because of, again, the guilt of Uncle Ben's death. It's a constant struggle for Spider-Man, which is a dynamic about the character that I do love. He's still LIKABLE and RELATABLE though, because he always tries to do the right thing, even if he messes up. That makes him human, but still a good person. I didn't get that with Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man at all. He started off as a jerk in the movie, and the movie ended with him being a jerk too (but that's a whole other topic).

I did get that likable and relatable vibe from Andrew. Even in the comics before Peter became spider-man, he had a lot of ill-feeling towards his persecutors but it was only when after he became spider-man those feelings got stronger and made him all the more conflicted because for the first time in his life he actually had the power to do something about it but for obvious reasons he couldn't.

As for Peter starting out being a jerk in this movie, really? The first time we see Peter in high school, he's being bullied by Flash and having a ball thrown at his head for no reason. Then we see Peter come to the defense of some kid being terrorized by Flash and Peter pays the price for doing so. I don't see how that makes him a jerk. By the end of the movie, Peter and Flash's relationship has changed to some degree and isn't as it once was at the start of the movie. You have me at a loss with that particular viewpoint.

And again, I will say that I got no vibe that Peter felt responsible for Ben's death in this movie, and that bothers me greatly. Captain Stacy's words shouldn't have been the impact on Spidey trying to shape himself, it should have been Uncle Ben's words.

Peter imo did feel responsible, The film just didn't need to spoon feed it to the audience. Peter's inconsiderate attitude was the cause of it all. Had Ben not showed up to Peter's school after the b-ball incident, Ben wouldn't have needed to have Peter pick up aunt May. Now, seeing as Peter failed to follow instruction to pick up aunt may and had been ignoring Ben's calls, they wouldn't have had the argument which forced Peter to leave and for Ben to follow after him.

As a kid, as a teenager, it's a time in one's life where some degree of domestic rebellion is at it's highest. Peter's not going to listen to Ben, not within the state of mind that he's in. Peter is conflicted, he's being bullied at school, the whole business with his parents, the only and new found lead he has to finding more about his parents in the form of Connors. Peter isn't thinking clearly and that's understandable and the movie clearly conveys this.
With Peter seeking revenge on those fitting the description of Ben's killer, he's none the wiser. He doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. As stated at the dinner, he honestly believes he's doing a public service but George conveys the bigger picture of the ramifications of spider-man's actions and how he's only serving himself. It's at this point where clarity sets in. Peter isn't in the thick of his vengeful lust, he's having a nice family dinner at his g/f's house and he's paying attention in part because he is the subject matter and when trying to defend himself, he comes to the realization that Captain stacey is somewhat right.
 
Happily? No way. After he escapes from the cops, you see him crying. He obviously didn't feel good about anything ...

Of course he was crying, his world has just been turned upside down. The uncle he loved so much was just murdered and the last real conversation they had was Peter pretty much yelling at him about him not being his dad. Understandably, he let the killer die, I'd probably do the same if not worse but what I'm saying is, that with all the comparisons about who's the better parker and how you and some others feel that Garfield lacked this and that, that scene of Maguire letting Papajohn die was far removed as one can get from Peter...imo.
 
I really don't know where you're getting this. It's right there on his face as soon as he realizes what happened. And the fact that he can't even bear to listen to the voice-mail Uncle Ben left after he stormed out on him. Did you want him actually saying the words, "it's my fault?"

I didn't get that at all when he tried to listen to Ben's message. He just seemed mad that he died and mad at the killer, in my opinion. He was more focused on finding the guy rather than his Uncle being dead at that point. It's perfectly reasonable to be mad at those things, but I didn't feel like he was mad at himself at all, especially because of his actions after that (making the costume, ready to go all vigilante). I guess I'm too stupid to connect with this supposedly flawless performance, I don't know ...

With the voicemail, I felt that Peter refused to listen to the whole thing because his focus wasn't on what Ben had to say, it was on finding the guy who killed him. Honestly, I felt that this could have been done REALLY well, but I think it fell flat. Again, I didn't believe for a second that he felt guilty for what happened. If I had felt that, I would have understood why he wasn't ready to hear Ben's words, I would have gotten a "denial" vibe as he was seeking revenge on the killer, and I would have applauded the character development with him finally hearing all of Ben's words. In fact, I think it would have been great if Peter had listened to the voicemail after Stacy's rant and after he saved the kid from the car. I would have believed that Spider-Man was embracing the whole hero thing and realzing the guilt after all that, and I feel that Uncle Ben's words would have had a lot more weight than they actually did. Plus, I personally would have liked to root for Spider-Man as an "all-out" hero by the time he was finally fighting the Lizard.

Instead, the movie drops the vengeance angle after Peter listens to Captain Stacy's rant, just like that. It felt too brief, it felt lazy, and it didn't feel believable. In fact, the Lizard just felt like he distracted Spider-Man from seeking revenge rather than Spider-Man deciding to stop it.

All in all, I think the movie COULD have done things so much better than it did. I saw a lot of good and fresh ideas in this, but I think they dropped the ball.
 

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