Ben Kingsley's return

[Green Goblin]

Breathing fire came from Mallen, an extremely important figure in the Extremis storyline.

I know lol. They still changed his powers. It's like giving Spider-Man the power to shoot seaweed instead of webs.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I think it is clear to us all that Marvel Studios and Shane Black are in a deal with the devil to destroy the Iron Man franchise. The only thing that can save it now is for FOX to get the rights....

Iron Man was great rest were poor.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've had to debate this. "Killian wanted revenge because Tony stood him up on a roof? What a wuss."


Guess you missed the part where Aldrich Killian himself went to Stark Industries for help, or where he said "Why would I still be pissed at you, you gave me the greatest gift of all - anonymity.", Or how about how he had no plans to hurt Stark until he was challenged to a grudge match and got in the way.

That would make perfect sense, if he didn't also send attack helicopters to blow up Tony's house and try and kill him.

 

[metaphysician]

That would make perfect sense, if he didn't also send attack helicopters to blow up Tony's house and try and kill him.

After Stark Industries turned down his offer, and after Tony deliberately called out the Mandarin. All that means is that Tony wasn't irreplaceable to his plans.

 

[Ironfan72]

Alien Power Rings? Ehhh, Green Lantern did it first.

Technically they were not rings in the beginning, according to the story Dragon Seed saga, they were the power source for an alien space ship, basically Fin Fang Fooms race, when the crashed on earth, the survivors each took a peice and turned them into rings, and taking human form, only Fin Fang Foom stayed a dragon to guard the space craft, the rest hide in human society, least thats how that story went, I would need to re-read the story to see exactly how Mandarin got all ten rings.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

That would make perfect sense, if he didn't also send attack helicopters to blow up Tony's house and try and kill him.

After Tony called him out to a cage match.

Technically they were not rings in the beginning, according to the story Dragon Seed saga, they were the power source for an alien space ship, basically Fin Fang Fooms race, when the crashed on earth, the survivors each took a peice and turned them into rings, and taking human form, only Fin Fang Foom stayed a dragon to guard the space craft, the rest hide in human society, least thats how that story went, I would need to re-read the story to see exactly how Mandarin got all ten rings.

I have all six issues, I can re-read and let you know.

 

[Ironfan72]

I Have them as well, just I am at work and can not refer to them at the moment, basically going off memory at the moment

 

[cherokeesam]

After Stark Industries turned down his offer, and after Tony deliberately called out the Mandarin. All that means is that Tony wasn't irreplaceable to his plans.

That; plus, Maya went to Stark's mansion to try to warn him about the attack, and afterwards called Killian off when she informed him that she had just discovered that Tony probably had figured out the solution to the Extremis explosion problem back in '99. Once he discovered that, Killian again quit trying to kill Stark, and instead tried to recruit him/press him into service for AIM.

All told, Killian spent far more time in the movie trying to work with Tony than trying to kill him.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

Hence why I refuse to post there anymore, I posted my thoughts on when the Electro teaser/Comic Con footage came out (which were negative, but fair) and I got called a troll and hating because I'm too attached to Raimi's movies lol

You see, I actually really liked the first ASM movie and am really looking forward to the next next one, but that place is just too much concentrated crazy for me...and it appears to be spilling out lol

 

[Green Goblin]

They changed.... his powers...

 

[Green Goblin]

You see, I actually really liked the first ASM movie and am really looking forward to the next next one, but that place is just too much concentrated crazy for me...and it appears to be spilling out lol

"All it takes is the will, of a single man"

And that man is Vid Electricz

 

[A Necessary Evil]

You see, I actually really liked the first ASM movie and am really looking forward to the next next one, but that place is just too much concentrated crazy for me...and it appears to be spilling out lol

I used to like TASM, then I don't know why, but the more I thought about it, and watched it, really didn't like it. I liked things about it (Garfield's Spider-Man was better, but I liked Tobey's Parker more, music was great, and the chemistry between Garfield/Stone was great.), other than that the movie is a mess for me, imo.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Seeing as how Disney owns Marvel and ABC, maybe they can have Trevor being interviewed from Prison by Diane Sawyer or anyone who does 20/20.

Whoever earlier in this thread came up with "Inside the Actors Studio with Trevor Slattery" has come up with a good idea. That's how I think a One Shot with Ben Kingsley should go....a humorous one shot like an interview from prison. Plus "Inside the Actors Studio" host James Lipton already has prison experience (So to speak):

[YT]vwXGPar9kHc[/YT]

 

[chaseter]

That; plus, Maya went to Stark's mansion to try to warn him about the attack, and afterwards called Killian off when she informed him that she had just discovered that Tony probably had figured out the solution to the Extremis explosion problem back in '99. Once he discovered that, Killian again quit trying to kill Stark, and instead tried to recruit him/press him into service for AIM.

All told, Killian spent far more time in the movie trying to work with Tony than trying to kill him.

No, Killian went to see Pepper only to impress her by showing her what he had become. If he wanted to speak with Tony, he would have spoke with Tony. If he wanted to do a deal with Stark Industries, he would have glossed over the possible weapons applications the serum had. Pepper turning down Killian did not make Tony dispensable to his plans. Maya also did not run to the house to save Tony because she knew he had the solution to the problem with Extremis. She has had that exact problem with Extremis for 14 years. She could have contacted him at any point in time. She ran to the house because she knew that Aldrich was about to blow the place up. She did it because she was a good person deep down...same reason why she got shot by Aldrich. She was only blinded by ambition, not greed.

I don't even think Killian really wanted to kill Tony until he finished his plan of becoming better than Tony. I think he wanted to show Tony that he was bigger and better than the guy that left him standing up on the roof that night in 1999. Killian then wanted Pepper as a trophy...Paltrow even said that line herself...to one up Tony. Killian went to see her at Stark Industries and then of course nabbed her as leverage not only to get Tony to cooperate, but also to make her his Frankenstein Bride of sorts. Killian's only motivations were to outdo Tony Stark...all of it stemming from that night. That was his major motivation. It was a personal vendetta...nothing more.

In summary, none of that is The Mandarin. They made up a completely new character and gave him the name of Iron Man's most prolific foe.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

I'd say that's a pretty liberal use of the word "prolific" lol.

 

[chaseter]

Mandarin keeps popping up no matter what incarnation of Iron Man we see. You can't have Iron Man without the Mandarin at some point.

 

[CoherentChaos]

And that's what Killian was. An incarnation. One far from a fu manchu stereotype that uses some powerful alien device that would be too contrived for the story Black was wanting to tell. (Besides, we're inevitably gonna get that kind of story with Thanos)

But you know what? For a rather liberal incarnation of the character, it still works. You wanted a mastermind to challenge Stark? You got it. He was even smart enough to use a proxy, a decoy to keep the heat off himself while he worked his master plan.
Sure, he may be wanting to one up Tony, but straight up revenge was never part of the original plan. He wouldn't be as rash as to try to kill him until Stark called him out and gave him the home address. No, it was more about propagating his criminal market. And Pepper being his trophy I think was more of a call back to her rejection of him.

To me at least, that's some really clever characterization. Much better than some crazy guy blasting things with 'magical' rings and being evil for the sake of being evil. (I know that's probably a vast understatement and insult, but whatever his real deal is, I'm not sure it would translate well to film. Sorry.)

 

[chaseter]

But that sounds more like Justin Hammer than the Mandarin.

 

[CoherentChaos]

True, in the case of one up'ing Tony and using the services of another, but I felt that Hammer sort of kept Vanko under the rug while publicly claiming responsibility for Vanko's work (specifically the drones). Whereas Killian shoved Trevor in the spotlight so he could work behind the scenes.

Plus I don't think Hammer ever wanted Stark dead, or was particularly interested in Pepper. No, it was Vanko that wanted Stark dead, or at least undone. Hammer just wanted to beat Stark in the weapons market (which was kind of pointless on his end since at that point, Stark stopped selling weapons). That's different from creating a demand for counter terrorism by fabricating terrorism.

lol of course we're just talking movie versions though. Unfortunately I'm not well versed on the comic counterparts aside from the offhand research I've done as the sporadic interests demanded. Hammer doesn't really fall into my interest however.

 

[The Guard]

I'm still not sure how I feel about The Mandarin in IRON MAN 3. Kingsley gave an incredible performance.

The basic concept, creating a terrorist, is interesting, but I think it ultimately pales in comparison to an actual terrorist kingpin that can do those things.

And while Pearce was solid, I just found Killian's version of the Mandarin to be really generic, derivative of other superhero fare and boring.

Oh, another corporate villain. Oh, he has the same powers as his henchmen. Oh, he has no legitimate motivation for his hatred or evil. Yawn.

 

[The Question]

I'm still not sure how I feel about The Mandarin in IRON MAN 3. Kingsley gave an incredible performance.

The basic concept, creating a terrorist, is interesting, but I think it ultimately pales in comparison to an actual terrorist kingpin that can do those things.

And while Pearce was solid, I just found Killian's version of the Mandarin to be really generic, derivative of other superhero fare and boring.

Oh, another corporate villain. Oh, he has the same powers as his henchmen. Oh, he has no legitimate motivation for his hatred or evil. Yawn.

Besides the same powers as his henchmen thing, that pretty much literally describes The Mandarin from the comics.

ANYWAY:

My guess for Kingsley's return is either he'll be playing Trevor in a DVD one shot, he'll be playing Trevor in an episode of Agents of SHIELD, or he's lending his voice to an unrelated character in Big Hero Six.

 

[The Question]

. His motivations (destroy the west)

When was that ever The Mandarin's motivation? His motivation has always boiled down to an accumulation of power for himself because he thinks he's entitled to it and has been denied it by the people in charge of running the world. Later on they added the notion of him rationalizing that power lust with a philosophy of social darwinism. Hell, initially he had a much bigger personal beef with China than he did with the west because the cultural revolution is the reason he was born into a life of poverty instead of wealth and power.

 

[cherokeesam]

No, Killian went to see Pepper only to impress her by showing her what he had become. If he wanted to speak with Tony, he would have spoke with Tony. If he wanted to do a deal with Stark Industries, he would have glossed over the possible weapons applications the serum had. Pepper turning down Killian did not make Tony dispensable to his plans. Maya also did not run to the house to save Tony because she knew he had the solution to the problem with Extremis. She has had that exact problem with Extremis for 14 years. She could have contacted him at any point in time. She ran to the house because she knew that Aldrich was about to blow the place up. She did it because she was a good person deep down...same reason why she got shot by Aldrich. She was only blinded by ambition, not greed.

You're right about the first part (Killian coming to Stark Industries to see Pepper, not Tony), but wrong about the second (Maya coming to Tony's mansion to warn him of the attack). The movie made clear that she had just that day discovered the old back of an envelope (or whatever) where Tony had scribbled some notes back on NYE 99, and only now realized that he had actually solved the Extremis explosion problem back then. *That's* why she was coming to warn him off. Whether or not she was a good person deep down is a different subject altogether....I guess her girl talk with Pepper later on was proof of her good motives.

 

[Loki882]

I think that another problem for some people was that it was ultimately more of the same when we were promised something different. True, Killian wasn't another "man in armor" for Tony to fight, but he WAS another rival businessman/scientist with a grudge, just like in the first two movies. And he also wore a business suit, like the villains in the first two films. Kingsley's Mandarin WOULD have truly been something different. Also, he was simply much more intimidating when he was pretending to be a villain then Guy Pearce was when he was ACTUALLY a villain. Also, I kind of understood Killian's motivations, but what were Maya's exactly? I'm still confused by that.

 

[The Guard]

Besides the same powers as his henchmen thing, that pretty much literally describes The Mandarin from the comics.

Even if that were the case, which is debatable, how does that justify a subpar presentation of a concept in film?