Can we call out European Cowardice?

I don't think some European nations are cowards they are commited to the war on terror as threats and attacks have happened to their countries its just disagreed with the Bush administrations approach to the war on terror and handling of Afghanistan/Iraq.

If they are committed to the war, then why won't they follow America's lead and our President's pleas for increased troop presence?

Also there was a hell of alot of dislike towards Bush in europe which most likely made euro politicians alot less willing to put support to any kind of operation he was spear heading.

God help us if Tony Blair gets that new european president role they are talking about

They can't use Bush as a reason for their inaction anymore.

Al-Qaeda is a network of terror cells. Occupation of a country and fighting a terrorist network are not the same things. Europe supports the war effort, the occupation thing is trickier. You need to understand that.
Explain how Europe is fighting Al Queda in ways that don't involve Afghanistan. The Taliban and Al Queda are in Afghanistan, we know this. American troops are fighting them now, presently. America is dedicating more troops to the effort, Europe will not do the same.


As opposed to sending their men to die for what could be a lost cause ? We're asking for help dude. They just want a plan that actually WORKS. What Europe wants to avoid is a failed operation like Iraq that lasts on and on for years with no foreseeable end in sight. You can't expect them to fully commit to something without a sound and effective plan. It would be stupid. Calling them cowards is also a *****e act especially when you consider that they have agreed to help out.

It's only a lost cause if we give up. America entered WWII when France had fallen, Germany was on the march and England was being bombed. That was sending our men to die in a lost cause.

Again, if Europe did not benefit from the war on terror, you may have a point. But Europe's safety is threaten by Al Queda as much, if not more than, America's is. And yet they still do not put forth the dedication and the effort of routing out evil. It IS cowardly.

Assuming where the attacks will be next is utterly presumptuous. Al-Qaeda is recognized as a threat and they are staying vigil which is why we share intelligence with each other but Afghanistan IS primarily our problem since America is the one who invaded it. Like it or not, that's the reality of the situation. We'll have support but get used to the idea that the US is mostly on its own.

America's war with Afghanistan was a colaberation of America and her NATO allies, this was not Iraq.

US foreign policy decisions over the decades is what created Al-Qaeda so the problem at its root is not really Afghanistan.

Bull. American foreign policy has helped Al Queda gain power, but it was not what created the evil. Radical islam is the creation of evil men that hijacked a peaceful religion. Al Queda is a creation of Radical islam.

Radical and fundamentalist thought was festered after years of anger and resentment over our missteps and misdeeds. Osama Bin Laden was a Saudi, as were 20% of the 9/11 hijackers. Understand that even as Afghanistan is won, Al-Qaeda would still survive as long as the reasons why they hate us are not properly addressed.

Just because victory in Afghanistan doesnt' solve all of the world's problems doesn't make it any less important.

After the way we screwed up in Iraq, I can sort of understand why Europe might be a little hesitant. I wouldn't be so crass as to call them cowards necessarily, wary is probably more appropriate.

I prefer calling a spade a spade.
 
The Pearl Harbor attack made the US enter WW2, not the fall of France
 
Irrelevant to the point I was making, especially considering Al Queda has attacked Europe several times.
 
So when a historical fact doesn't line up to whatever point you want to make, you throw out history and make **** up
 
Well, when WW III breaks out in the Balkans, which many historians believe will happen.....we shall see who the Europeans turn to, and what happens at that time.
 
So when a historical fact doesn't line up to whatever point you want to make, you throw out history and make **** up

Cute, but wrong.

I never stated that the reason America entered the war was the fall of France, I simply stated that when America entered the war France had been overtaken by Nazi Germany and England was being bombed. This was in response to point of why would Europe want to involve itself in a war that they didn't know for a fact they were going to win.

Also, I would ask what I made up. Al Queda HAS attacked Europe.
 
There were some wars back in the 90s and they turned to NATO
 
Cute, but wrong.

I never stated that the reason America entered the war was the fall of France, I simply stated that when America entered the war France had been overtaken by Nazi Germany and England was being bombed. This was in response to point of why would Europe want to involve itself in a war that they didn't know for a fact they were going to win.

Also, I would ask what I made up. Al Queda HAS attacked Europe.

You said...

"America entered WWII when France had fallen, Germany was on the march and England was being bombed."

France fell in 1940. The US didn't enter WW2 until a year later.
 
The Future Historians will count 9-11 as a pseudo "first shot" in the coming WWIII.
 
The Future Historians will count 9-11 as a pseudo "first shot" in the coming WWIII.


Very possible, but I think we stopped watchingng Georgia alittle too early. I also think the fringe groups that are wanting independence from Russia are going very much unnoticed at the moment. The stans are also going unnoticed, and people forget that much of the Soviets biochemical plants were in that region. So, I would actually be keeping an eye on these areas as well.
 
"This is not the WWIII my Mother warned me about"
 
You said...

"America entered WWII when France had fallen, Germany was on the march and England was being bombed."

France fell in 1940. The US didn't enter WW2 until a year later.

...and when America entered WWII France HAD fallen, Germany WAS on the march and England WAS being bombed. It was not my intention to imply that America's entry into the war was a direct response to those events - especially since such a point (even if it was true) would of done nothing, for or against, the point I was making.

The Future Historians will count 9-11 as a pseudo "first shot" in the coming WWIII.

Historians will also be wrong. 9/11 wasn't even the first shot in a war on terror, it just happened to be the first time we had a President that had the will to take effective action.

Very possible, but I think we stopped watchingng Georgia alittle too early. I also think the fringe groups that are wanting independence from Russia are going very much unnoticed at the moment. The stans are also going unnoticed, and people forget that much of the Soviets biochemical plants were in that region. So, I would actually be keeping an eye on these areas as well.

I agree, Russia/Georgia is seperate conflict from Al Queda and 9/11, but one of equal (if not greater) severity. The Russia/Georgia conflict is apart of a larger war based on energy and, should it escalate, will include Venezuela, North Korea and Iran. Al Queda is a war of ideology. Of course Iran has the benefit of having toes in both pools.
 
Who will the Allies and Axis be in this WW III? :whatever:

America, Great Britain, Israel, any European country that grows balls + the smaller America pals = Allies

North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Russia = Axis
 
Because a country having balls means doing what the US wants...
 
Historians will also be wrong. 9/11 wasn't even the first shot in a war on terror, it just happened to be the first time we had a President that had the will to take effective action.

True. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Republicans not care about Al Queada while Clinton wanted to pursue them in the 90's?

I consider Russia/Georgia to be a different conflict from Al Queda and 9/11. The Russia/Georgia conflict is apart of a larger war based on energy. Al Queda is a war of ideology.
Isn't it also about territory?
 
America, Great Britain, Israel, any European country that grows balls + the smaller America pals = Allies

North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Russia = Axis
Where does China go? I don't see them allowing NK to doing anything like going to war again.

What would they be fight about exactly? Where does Al Quaeda fit?
 
Because a country having balls means doing what the US wants...

Yes, normally.

True. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Republicans not care about Al Queada while Clinton wanted to pursue them in the 90's?

Clinton didn't make Al Queda an issue in the 90's. Not after the embassy bombings, not after Yemen. Hell, Clinton opted NOT to take Bin Laden when he was offered to America.

Isn't it also about territory?

No. It's has nothing to do with boundaries, it's all about resources.
 
Where does China go? I don't see them allowing NK to doing anything like going to war again.

What would they be fight about exactly? Where does Al Quaeda fit?

China likely does what they do best - straddle the fences.

Al Queda doesn't fit either category. They are a separate enemy of the allies.
 
Clinton didn't make Al Queda an issue in the 90's. Not after the embassy bombings, not after Yemen. Hell, Clinton opted NOT to take Bin Laden when he was offered to America.

Who offered Bin laden to America? Why did he turn them down?

No. It's has nothing to do with boundaries, it's all about resources.
Isn't Chechnya rebelling since it wants to keep it's sovereign for itself?
 
I agree, Russia/Georgia is seperate conflict from Al Queda and 9/11, but one of equal (if not greater) severity. The Russia/Georgia conflict is apart of a larger war based on energy and, should it escalate, will include Venezuela, North Korea and Iran. Al Queda is a war of ideology. Of course Iran has the benefit of having toes in both pools.

Azerbejan is actually the real catalyst in the energy part of all of this....along with having a butt load of oil, they are also the country that pipelines have to go through and all the countries are, at the moment, are all chomping at the bit to get their hands on that country.
 
The first salvo in the war on terror unfortunately was the creation of Isreal and has been building ever since.

European nations may be fearing their ever increasing Muslim populations and they probably should.
 
Fearing immigrants or a particular segment of the population is so mature
 
Fearing immigrants or a particular segment of the population is so mature

Well when a particular segment of that particular segment has shown a particular interest and willingness in blowing up buildings, train stations, hijacking planes, killing Olympic athletes, etc. etc.

Europe can only turn a blind eye for so long, by the time they finally wake up, it might already be to late.
 

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