The Last Jedi General Episode VIII News/Speculation/SPOILER Thread - - Part 11

[spiderman2]

Plenty of people do. The vast majority does not, mercifully.

I just got that impression that she could maybe be and it would maybe be interesting. Also with what happened with Snoke and KYLO I don't really know what to expect going forward. Any thoughts about that? I hate what they did with Snooke and don't really see what they can do with Kylo that is going to make him really fell like a threat in 9. Also any one fell under wellemd by the movies score? I fell like out side of the main like star wars theme and the new themes from TFA like Rey's that really nothing else stood out really from its score.

 

[mikeboydus]

Just simple observations, the Light side of the Force does not burn a Force user out like a fuse hit by surge. The Dark Side can burn one out though, e.g. often physically aging, corrupting and warping the Force user eventually to the point of self destruction.

A master force user would not try to stealth kill a sleeping person with a lightsaber, they would simply choke, suffocate, or paralyze them.

I don't think Rian Johnson or the Disney Storyteller committee understand the writings of Joseph Campbell and the concept of the Hero's Journey or Eastern mysticism and philosophy like Taoism that played such a huge role in shaping the vision of George Lucas. Plus what happened to all of the political subversion? Vietnam, Hitler, and Nixon had a huge impact on the OT and prequels, while the later prequels after 9-11 were influenced by the War on Terror. The only thing seeming to be subverted is the vision Lucas had, mythological archetypes in general, and then the Force no longer seems to function like the Tao/Logos.

After making such a lore friendly film such as Rogue One, this one is very strange, unnecessary in its oddities.

 

[Lionbush]

Just simple observations, the Light side of the Force does not burn a Force user out like a fuse hit by surge. The Dark Side can burn one out though, e.g. often physically aging, corrupting and warping the Force user eventually to the point of self destruction.

A master force user would not try to stealth kill a sleeping person with a lightsaber, they would simply choke, suffocate, or paralyze them.

I don't think Rian Johnson or the Disney Storyteller committee understand the writings of Joseph Campbell and the concept of the Hero's Journey or Eastern mysticism and philosophy like Taoism that played such a huge role in shaping the vision of George Lucas. Plus what happened to all of the political subversion? Vietnam, Hitler, and Nixon had a huge impact on the OT and prequels, while the later prequels after 9-11 were influenced by the War on Terror. The only thing seeming to be subverted is the vision Lucas had, mythological archetypes in general, and then the Force no longer seems to function like the Tao/Logos.

After making such a lore friendly film such as Rogue One, this one is very strange, unnecessary in its oddities.

Superbly put.

 

[jaqua99]

It never started or ended with the Skywalker line, Jedi and Younglings have been in the films to show that not all Jedi are Skywalkers.

However, the Skywalker line are descended from Anakin, the Chosen One. The one descended from The Force itself. They are special because of that. It was always the case. The Emperor wanted Luke to replace Vader who because of his injuries was limited to an extent. He also saw Luke as a major threat because of who he was.

No, not all Jedi are Skywalkers, but all Skywalkers are powerful force users. Probably more so than any other.

Exactly.

For the sake of continuity, do what they do with Rey. But when it comes to raw force potential... Anakin SHOULD be the standard.

It would be like having a more significant figure than Jesus Christ in the bible in a new new testament. That was the point of Anakin's character. He was the son of god. The son of the force. Virgin birth. Rey can be powerful...fine. but as an untrained force user, for the sake of continuity and regards for mythology, she should not be able to do what Anakin did and then some.

He was an EXCEPTION to force users. As was his son..who Obi Wan believed was the Chosen One. Ben has that power too..that connection..that indirect influence on the galaxy and the force itself. And it is still the Skywalker saga. Rey can be a random, but she should not be as powerful...no, she can be as powerful WITH wisdom, time and training..but when it comes to raw power, raw strength, untapped, untrained force potency, Skywalkers are the top, cream of the crop standard.

That's the mythology of the saga, that's the story.. that was Lucas' vision.

But if the movie is good, fine.

It seems like Rey didn't really DO much more than she did in the force awakens. And it SOUNDS like Luke, Yoda, and Snoke are still the most powerful force users in the film.

And the annoyance towards Rey, her raw power is fine. But it's doing something that requires SKILL, that bothers people. Her flying the falcon with the force..fine. Her timing the blast doors with the force? Fine.

Jedi mind trick, mental barriers, and force pulls have canonically required skill and training to achieve.

But lets not forget Anakin drove 700mph+ with a pod racer and flew a jedi star fighter manually and destroyed the droid gunship as a 9 year old. Silly silly stuff.

That was the point though. He was Jesus. He was a demigod of the force basically lol

 

[Lionbush]

Exactly.

For the sake of continuity, do what they do with Rey. But when it comes to raw force potential... Anakin SHOULD be the standard.

It would be like having a more significant figure than Jesus Christ in the bible in a new new testament. That was the point of Anakin's character. He was the son of god. The son of the force. Virgin birth. Rey can be powerful...fine. but as an untrained force user, for the sake of continuity and regards for mythology, she should not be able to do what Anakin did and then some.

He was an EXCEPTION to force users. As was his son..who Obi Wan believed was the Chosen One. Ben has that power too..that connection..that indirect influence on the galaxy and the force itself. And it is still the Skywalker saga. Rey can be a random, but she should not be as powerful...no, she can be as powerful WITH wisdom, time and training..but when it comes to raw power, raw strength, untapped, untrained force potency, Skywalkers are the top, cream of the crop standard.

That's the mythology of the saga, that's the story.. that was Lucas' vision.

But if the movie is good, fine.

It seems like Rey didn't really DO much more than she did in the force awakens. And it SOUNDS like Luke, Yoda, and Snoke are still the most powerful force users in the film.

And the annoyance towards Rey, her raw power is fine. But it's doing something that requires SKILL, that bothers people. Her flying the falcon with the force..fine. Her timing the blast doors with the force? Fine.

Jedi mind trick, mental barriers, and force pulls have canonically required skill and training to achieve.

But lets not forget Anakin drove 700mph+ with a pod racer and flew a jedi star fighter manually and destroyed the droid gunship as a 9 year old. Silly silly stuff.

That was the point though. He was Jesus. He was a demigod of the force basically lol

The Jesus analogy is a good one as that is the comparison.

My problem isn't Rey being powerful or being a no body. It's that she is a powerful nobody with no training.

 

[TheDreamMaster]

One thing that has bothered me, is a same problem from TFA. I’m all for tons of new aliens, but why were on named aliens like Ackbar and Nien Nunb the returning species. Once again no other familiar speciesZ makes things feel so different.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Just simple observations, the Light side of the Force does not burn a Force user out like a fuse hit by surge. The Dark Side can burn one out though, e.g. often physically aging, corrupting and warping the Force user eventually to the point of self destruction.

A master force user would not try to stealth kill a sleeping person with a lightsaber, they would simply choke, suffocate, or paralyze them.

I don't think Rian Johnson or the Disney Storyteller committee understand the writings of Joseph Campbell and the concept of the Hero's Journey or Eastern mysticism and philosophy like Taoism that played such a huge role in shaping the vision of George Lucas. Plus what happened to all of the political subversion? Vietnam, Hitler, and Nixon had a huge impact on the OT and prequels, while the later prequels after 9-11 were influenced by the War on Terror. The only thing seeming to be subverted is the vision Lucas had, mythological archetypes in general, and then the Force no longer seems to function like the Tao/Logos.

After making such a lore friendly film such as Rogue One, this one is very strange, unnecessary in its oddities.

I think you completely missed the point of Luke igniting the lightsaber. He wasn't in Ben's tent to kill him, he was there to search his mind and see how deep his darkness went. He only briefly ignited the saber, as he says, in a moment of pure primal fear at the thought of another Vader. It was one dark impulse that he overcame, but not before the damage was done.

One mistake that lead to a new dark lord, a very powerful idea to be honest.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Exactly.

For the sake of continuity, do what they do with Rey. But when it comes to raw force potential... Anakin SHOULD be the standard.

It would be like having a more significant figure than Jesus Christ in the bible in a new new testament. That was the point of Anakin's character. He was the son of god. The son of the force. Virgin birth. Rey can be powerful...fine. but as an untrained force user, for the sake of continuity and regards for mythology, she should not be able to do what Anakin did and then some.

He was an EXCEPTION to force users. As was his son..who Obi Wan believed was the Chosen One. Ben has that power too..that connection..that indirect influence on the galaxy and the force itself. And it is still the Skywalker saga. Rey can be a random, but she should not be as powerful...no, she can be as powerful WITH wisdom, time and training..but when it comes to raw power, raw strength, untapped, untrained force potency, Skywalkers are the top, cream of the crop standard.

That's the mythology of the saga, that's the story.. that was Lucas' vision.

But if the movie is good, fine.

It seems like Rey didn't really DO much more than she did in the force awakens. And it SOUNDS like Luke, Yoda, and Snoke are still the most powerful force users in the film.

And the annoyance towards Rey, her raw power is fine. But it's doing something that requires SKILL, that bothers people. Her flying the falcon with the force..fine. Her timing the blast doors with the force? Fine.

Jedi mind trick, mental barriers, and force pulls have canonically required skill and training to achieve.

But lets not forget Anakin drove 700mph+ with a pod racer and flew a jedi star fighter manually and destroyed the droid gunship as a 9 year old. Silly silly stuff.

That was the point though. He was Jesus. He was a demigod of the force basically lol

It's implied that Rey is the next incarnation of this, a demigod of the force. Smoke says he knew as Kylo gained power in the darkness, the light side of the force would rise someone up to balance him. He thought it would be Luke, but it was Rey.

 

[The Shape]

Regarding Snoke's demise:

While I understand the reasoning for it and even liked it within context, I am somewhat disappointed that we seemingly won't be learning much more about him in the film series. Where did he come from, how did he rise to power, what happened to his face/body, what were his true motivations for all of this, etc.

 

[The Shape]

Exactly.

For the sake of continuity, do what they do with Rey. But when it comes to raw force potential... Anakin SHOULD be the standard.

It would be like having a more significant figure than Jesus Christ in the bible in a new new testament. That was the point of Anakin's character. He was the son of god. The son of the force. Virgin birth. Rey can be powerful...fine. but as an untrained force user, for the sake of continuity and regards for mythology, she should not be able to do what Anakin did and then some.

He was an EXCEPTION to force users. As was his son..who Obi Wan believed was the Chosen One. Ben has that power too..that connection..that indirect influence on the galaxy and the force itself. And it is still the Skywalker saga. Rey can be a random, but she should not be as powerful...no, she can be as powerful WITH wisdom, time and training..but when it comes to raw power, raw strength, untapped, untrained force potency, Skywalkers are the top, cream of the crop standard.

That's the mythology of the saga, that's the story.. that was Lucas' vision.

But if the movie is good, fine.

It seems like Rey didn't really DO much more than she did in the force awakens. And it SOUNDS like Luke, Yoda, and Snoke are still the most powerful force users in the film.

And the annoyance towards Rey, her raw power is fine. But it's doing something that requires SKILL, that bothers people. Her flying the falcon with the force..fine. Her timing the blast doors with the force? Fine.

Jedi mind trick, mental barriers, and force pulls have canonically required skill and training to achieve.

But lets not forget Anakin drove 700mph+ with a pod racer and flew a jedi star fighter manually and destroyed the droid gunship as a 9 year old. Silly silly stuff.

That was the point though. He was Jesus. He was a demigod of the force basically lol

So you haven't seen the film yet?

 

[jaqua99]

The Jesus analogy is a good one as that is the comparison.

My problem isn't Rey being powerful or being a no body. It's that she is a powerful nobody with no training.

It isn't my analogy. Pretty sure Lucas said that. Anakin was a messiac figure.

So if the creator of Star Wars' vision was that Anakin is THE exeception, THE standard.. how does Rey's talents NOT disregard the creator's vision? Anakin was a sort of dues ex machina.. which is typically annoying but THAT was his character.

Look at the great Ahsoka did. Ezra, Kanan, Obi Wan with dedication, Yoda. All these people were great role playing force users with dedication, faith in the force and their own bits of wisdom. Anakin didn't NEED the intensive training, nor does his family because he IS a dues ex machina, both narratively, and plot wise to the force. Which makes the Skywalker family SO tragic, and from a story telling perspective..almost mythological like a greek tragedy. In the many many years of star wars, there haven't been force users as "special" as Anakin, and his family.

And they are human characters. Human emotions in a fantasy world where human emotions can impact the galaxy more than ever.

I just can't get behind someone sharing that with a Skywalker in the Skywalker saga.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure I will love the hell out of the movie. I like most of these characters. It's just my main gripe with the series.

I love the NBA. But it annoys me how inconsistent the officiating is and how theatrical the game is now. Same relationship as a fan

 

[jaqua99]

So you haven't seen the film yet?

Oyy. Knew that was coming. I am seeing it tonight. But it is irrelevant to the point I was making. I know I am going to love the movie.

 

[jaqua99]

It's implied that Rey is the next incarnation of this, a demigod of the force. Smoke says he knew as Kylo gained power in the darkness, the light side of the force would rise someone up to balance him. He thought it would be Luke, but it was Rey.

But WHY? The son of the chosen one is still alive lol.

 

[chamber-music]

Everyone is wondering about Rey's linage while Finn doesn't know his either. Finn doesn't even know his real name

 

[jaqua99]

Everyone is wondering about Rey's linage while Finn doesn't know his either. Finn doesn't even know his real name

I wonder if we will ever find out his real birth name

 

[mikeboydus]

I think you completely missed the point of Luke igniting the lightsaber. He wasn't in Ben's tent to kill him, he was there to search his mind and see how deep his darkness went. He only briefly ignited the saber, as he says, in a moment of pure primal fear at the thought of another Vader. It was one dark impulse that he overcame, but not before the damage was done.

One mistake that lead to a new dark lord, a very powerful idea to be honest.

A Jedi master does not need to be in the dwelling of a student to search his mind. The idea they would be fearful is also bizarre. A Jedi master has utter control of their emotions, even in the face of death or absolute horror. A Jedi who succumbs to fear, anger, or hate will succumb to the dark side or even death, e.g. Mace Windu.

The Jedi are essentially enlightened monks in the manner of Eastern martial arts schools, especially those who practice Tai Chi or Qigong. The idea that a Xian/Immortal master in one of these traditions would make such a bizarre mistake is absurd.

There were dozens of ways that could have been written and still be lore friendly, but story by committee without regard to lore or its influences will only result in unnecessary nonsense.

 

[spiderman2]

Regarding Snoke's demise:

While I understand the reasoning for it and even liked it within context, I am somewhat disappointed that we seemingly won't be learning much more about him in the film series. Where did he come from, how did he rise to power, what happened to his face/body, what were his true motivations for all of this, etc.

Yeah also he went down to darn easy. I really don't know what they do going forward either this movie felt more like it should have been episode 9 then 8.

 

[Mjölnir]

Regarding Snoke's demise:

While I understand the reasoning for it and even liked it within context, I am somewhat disappointed that we seemingly won't be learning much more about him in the film series. Where did he come from, how did he rise to power, what happened to his face/body, what were his true motivations for all of this, etc.

I liked it in a certain way as well, but I don't think Kylo Ren is a worthy successor to keep the "big bad" role for the trilogy (he's not nearly powerful enough from what we've seen), nor do I think Kylo in that position is the most interesting development for him at this point. He has by far the most potential for interesting character development, but I don't think that potential has been fully realized.

 

[TheDreamMaster]

Regarding Snoke's demise:

While I understand the reasoning for it and even liked it within context, I am somewhat disappointed that we seemingly won't be learning much more about him in the film series. Where did he come from, how did he rise to power, what happened to his face/body, what were his true motivations for all of this, etc.

I may be wrong as it’d come off really stupid, but I wonder if Disney assumes casual fans will just assume he was bad but now Kylo is the real bad guy, while more hardcore fans will read the novels and comics were Disney can dump whatever canon explanation the desire.

 

[TheFantasticJoe]

I'm just wondering what on earth IX can be about now. When I left TFA I could see a clear trajectory, but after leaving TLJ I'm just baffled on which direction they can take it in and how they can wrap everything up (not just the trilogy but possibly the entire saga) in just one movie.

 

[Infinity9999x]

A Jedi master does not need to be in the dwelling of a student to search his mind. The idea they would be fearful is also bizarre. A Jedi master has utter control of their emotions, even in the face of death or absolute horror. A Jedi who succumbs to fear, anger, or hate will succumb to the dark side or even death, e.g. Mace Windu.

The Jedi are essentially enlightened monks in the manner of Eastern martial arts schools, especially those who practice Tai Chi or Qigong. The idea that a Xian/Immortal master in one of these traditions would make such a bizarre mistake is absurd.

There were dozens of ways that could have been written and still be lore friendly, but story by committee without regard to lore or its influences will only result in unnecessary nonsense.

Doesn't he? Where do you base that off of? There's nothing to support your claim. Palpatine was standing next to Vader and didn't sense his decision to kill him. He never too Vader's doubt seriously.

And Jedi don't show fear and are not afraid? This is just false, of course they can or no Jedi Masters would ever turn to the dark side, which we know they do and have. Jedi make mistakes, hence why the rise of the empire happened while they were at their strongest as an organization.

You're basing most of this off your own preconceived notions of what you think Jedi should be, not what the films have shown us.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Can someone answer me this about Holdo

Spoiler

Why did she wait until the last minute to tell everyone the big escape plan? I dont recall anything other than her reasoning being "you need to trust my leadership and not be reckless".

Waiting only led to members of the resistance losing faith in her ability to command in an already dire situation, that led to a mutiny

 

[Filmfan93]

So what does the decreasing RT score and the mixed response to the film mean for itself and the future of SW?

I am asking, because I really like the film and what Rian did with the story and characters, but it's soul crushing to see not everyone liking it and all of these mixed feelings.

Really expected this to be considered one of the great SW films. I loved almost every aspect of it. It makes me really sad that it's current RT audience score is the same as AOTC's. It was NOWHERE near that in terms of quality.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Can someone answer me this about Holdo

Spoiler

Why did she wait until the last minute to tell everyone the big escape plan? I dont recall anything other than her reasoning being "you need to trust my leadership and not be reckless".

Waiting only led to members of the resistance losing faith in her ability to command in an already dire situation, that led to a mutiny

That I would have liked too. Even something as simple as "we think there might be a spy feeding them out locations and that's how they tracked us."

 

[MadVillainy]

So what does the decreasing RT score and the mixed response to the film mean for itself and the future of SW?

I am asking, because I really like the film and what Rian did with the story and characters, but it's soul crushing to see not everyone liking it and all of these mixed feelings.

Really expected this to be considered one of the great SW films. I loved almost every aspect of it. It makes me really sad that it's current RT audience score is the same as AOTC's. It was NOWHERE near that in terms of quality.

I mean it's still at 93 percent and the movie is making bank. I don't think anyone should worry how it'll affect the future of SW.


But just for convo sake, I could see them steering the franchise into less risk taking territories.

That I would have liked too. Even something as simple as "we think there might be a spy feeding them out locations and that's how they tracked us."

Yeah that whole bit was so dumb.