Sequels How should the Lizard be cured?

[AIRWOLF]

Well If Raimi returns, I doubt that Lizard will survive unless he has a second villain to kill off.

 

[The Lizard]

We hear the bones from within Connors shifting, to accommodate muscle mass and bone growth, which slowly reveals his second arm forming and a tail forming down his spine.

Ah, but shouldn't his regrown arm come back first, a while before the Lizard transformation begins?

One of the very few things I liked about John Byrne's Spider-Man: Chapter One mini-series was the "#0" issue where Byrne did short prologues for the origins of a few villains, including Lizzy. Byrne shows Connors taking the regenerative formula, going to bed, then waking up in the middle of the night with a tiny withered arm growing out of his shoulder stump. The new arm grows in over the couple days and Connors thinks his experiment is a success. Then of course the arm turns scaly and everything goes wrong afterwards, leading up to the scaly half-lizard Connors running off into the swamp to get away from his family before his mind goes completely.

 

[Visionary]

Yeah, I agree, he should grow his arm first.

Byrne shows Connors taking the regenerative formula, going to bed, then waking up in the middle of the night with a tiny withered arm growing out of his shoulder stump.

You see, that's the kind of discusting stuff I want on film. I just want everything within The Lizard's transformation to gross some people out. If you think about it, growing an arm and a tail connected to your flesh requires some pretty nasty stuff.

The sad part is, there going to cater it to kids, so you won't see any of the graphic and cool stuff we saw in THE FLY.

 

[Visionary]

Well If Raimi returns, I doubt that Lizard will survive unless he has a second villain to kill off.

Now that's a question I would love an interviewer to ask Raimi, why do you always kill the villains at the end, why not have them ALL live?

 

[Spade]

Green Goblin needed to die- it's a classic storyline, and he was best before they revived him. So did the New Goblin and Venom- they add the completitude the revenge storyline of SM3 needed...it's a shame that was bogged down by so much of the filler in the movie. Doc Ock, though? Still doesn't make sense to me.

I do concede that The Lizard's idea is a good one. If Connors sent himself into self-banishment after realizing he has no method of returning himself to a human state it could be a heck of a lot more conflicting and touching for the viewing audience than what's been seen up until now, especially if they add some of the monstrous elements Visionary's transformation idea invokes.

 

[Visionary]

That's true, I know some villains needed to die (Norman/Harry/Venom). But I'd really like to see The Lizard live in SM4. I don't want a dead Curt Connors at the end of SM4. And yes, I still want Doc Ock to return.

 

[chief103182]

I'll take this opportunity to restate a somewhat controversial opinion of mine --- I don't think that Dr. Connors should be cured at the end of the hypothetical movie. At least not all the way.

To avoid comparisons with the Hulk and to add a slightly increased level of realism to the Lizard character, the initial transformation from Connors to Lizard should be shown to take place over an extended period of time. How this would be shown would depend on the structure of the film of course but Connors' transformation could take place in the background while the focus is on a secondary villain or storyline, or the whole transformation process could be shown as a flashback after the Lizard is already on the loose. Since the physiological changes that happen during the mutation from man to lizard-man are so extensive, the Lizard should not transform to and from human form during the film. He could just get more and more lizard-like as the plot progresses, perhaps starting out as the intelligent talking Lizard and ending up as the savage beastial Lizard.

When we finally get to the "cure," whether it be something whipped up by Spider-Man or something taken from Connors' lab, it can have a partial effect in the Lizard, perhaps restoring the mind of Dr. Connors. What a poignant tragedy to have the mind of Connors still trapped in the monstrous body of the Lizard. Thus we could see the unfortunate Doctor taken away to some kind of secret government holding facility (how about The Vault?) and even though the Lizard doesn't get killed, the ending is still downbeat in classic Spidey style.

An alternative to this would be to show Connors in captivity slowly turning back to human form. Maybe show him looking human, but with rough skin and no hair as he slowly turns back and waits for a chance to be with his family again.


That's the way I would do it at least.

I love this idea. You really understand the character (obviously). I would love to see a slow transformation into the Lizard over time. It would make it so much more dramatic and disturbing. If the plot focuses on another villain during the transformation, who do you want it to be?

 

[Web-Head408]

pete should create some cure using some brain-power!!

 

[Visionary]

...or his feet.

 

[Web-Head408]

or his hand!

 

[The Lizard]

If the plot focuses on another villain during the transformation, who do you want it to be?

Well, I'm glad you asked!

If there's going to be a secondary villain subplot in a movie featuring the Lizard, the secondary villain(s) can't be monsterish or have powers similar to Spidey or the Lizard.

While a lot of posters around here think that Kraven the Hunter is the best choice as a secondary villain (and I must admit, a story line where Kraven is hunting the Lizard and/or Spider-Man as a big publicity stunt could work well), I think that Kraven's lack of super powers doesn't make him interesting enough to carry the parts of the movie that occur while the Lizard is transforming or otherwise offscreen. Of course, the character of Kraven could always be "tweaked" to get around this, but I have another idea....

I want to see Spidey fighting more street-thug criminal types, so I'd like to see some members of the "Maggia", as they were called in the comics. Regular hoods like Silvermane, Cicero or Hammerhead, and maybe one super-powered thug like Tombstone to make things interesting. Thus, there are actually no costumed supervillains in SM4, just the Lizard and the Maggia guys. If there needs to be a link established between the plotlines, there could be some kind of situation similar to Amazing Spider-Man #74-76, where Curt Connors' family is kidnapped by crooks for some reason and the Lizard takes time out from his rampage to tear up a few Mafia boys.

 

[Visionary]

I want to see Spidey fighting more street-thug criminal types, so I'd like to see some members of the "Maggia", as they were called in the comics. Regular hoods like Silvermane, Cicero or Hammerhead, and maybe one super-powered thug like Tombstone to make things interesting. Thus, there are actually no costumed supervillains in SM4, just the Lizard and the Maggia guys. If there needs to be a link established between the plotlines, there could be some kind of situation similar to Amazing Spider-Man #74-76, where Curt Connors' family is kidnapped by crooks for some reason and the Lizard takes time out from his rampage to tear up a few Mafia boys.

Absolutely NOT.

That would be...The Lizard Meets The GoodFellas. I dare not go into my~what works in the comics, doesn't always work on screen. But that would be the case here.

What people should understand is, when it comes to The Lizard, because he's an animalistic character, you can't mix but so many concepts in terms of other villain(s) with him. You can't really have The Lizard being a fully thinking creature, that's what Connors is for. On screen, even Connors' family should be in danger when he's around them. No King Kong type thing, where he'll kill any human, but won't kill his lady love. This brings some dramatic and heart felt situations to the story at hand. A man who loves his family, but is also terrified of being around them, namely because he'll leave them a pile of shreaded flesh. This isn't the HULK, where Connors knows that he doesn't kill, so he knows that The Lizard doesn't kill. This would also fall into the character of the comics not liking HUMANS.

The wrong combination would take away from Connors/The Lizard and not let his character/story evolve. This is why I'm scared that they'll choose the wrong combination.

Here are my only choices for SM4 with THE LIZARD as the main villain:

1) There's only THE LIZARD, no secondary villain. Just Spider-Man vs. The Lizard.

2) KRAVEN THE HUNTER, the combination of the Lizard, Spidey and Kraven, would literally give way to the character development all three characters simultaneously.

For featured characters, I would include Maxwell Dillon (ELECTRO) but no ELECTRO the super-powered villain. Just MAXWELL DILLON. Also, this would be the movie, that the public finds out that DOCTOR OCTOPUS may not be dead, a sighting perhaps written in the Daily Bugle. I wouldn't mind just seeing those tentacles moving about at the end of the film, no full body shown, just those beloved tentacles. Lights on!

Personally, I think the Lizard/Kraven combination would be a great fourth movie.

 

[Mr Jide]

Good way to show Peter's scientific knowledge and abilities.

They could have done that by having the damn mechs

 

[Mr Jide]

Absolutely NOT.

That would be...The Lizard Meets The GoodFellas. I dare not go into my~what works in the comics, doesn't always work on screen. But that would be the case here.

What people should understand is, when it comes to The Lizard, because he's an animalistic character, you can't mix but so many concepts in terms of other villain(s) with him. You can't really have The Lizard being a fully thinking creature, that's what Connors is for. On screen, even Connors' family should be in danger when he's around them. No King Kong type thing, where he'll kill any human, but won't kill his lady love. This brings some dramatic and heart felt situations to the story at hand. A man who loves his family, but is also terrified of being around them, namely because he'll leave them a pile of shreaded flesh. This isn't the HULK, where Connors knows that he doesn't kill, so he knows that The Lizard doesn't kill. This would also fall into the character of the comics not liking HUMANS.

The wrong combination would take away from Connors/The Lizard and not let his character/story evolve. This is why I'm scared that they'll choose the wrong combination.

Here are my only choices for SM4 with THE LIZARD as the main villain:

1) There's only THE LIZARD, no secondary villain. Just Spider-Man vs. The Lizard.

2) KRAVEN THE HUNTER, the combination of the Lizard, Spidey and Kraven, would literally give way to the character development all three characters simultaneously.

For featured characters, I would include Maxwell Dillon (ELECTRO) but no ELECTRO the super-powered villain. Just MAXWELL DILLON. Also, this would be the movie, that the public finds out that DOCTOR OCTOPUS may not be dead, a sighting perhaps written in the Daily Bugle. I wouldn't mind just seeing those tentacles moving about at the end of the film, no full body shown, just those beloved tentacles. Lights on!

Personally, I think the Lizard/Kraven combination would be a great fourth movie.

Well said.

 

[Spade]

Kraven has always been a villain I've been tepid about seeing. He is the next logical choice to be paired with the reptilian Lizard, but after seeing how insignificant a character with a limited background can be to what should be the real focus I'm not sure they should jump for it. They focused a lot in SM3 in making the Sandman relevant, and due to the bad decision-making on what scenes got chopped it was for naught in my opinion. Kraven isn't too shabby, but half the issue would be making him seem like a genuine threat. The benefit of the Lizard is that he naturally looks like a contender. The disadvantage of Kraven is that potions and "good tracking skills" may or may not fly- it all depends on the storytelling and how they adapt him.

 

[Mr Jide]

Now that's a question I would love an interviewer to ask Raimi, why do you always kill the villains at the end, why not have them ALL live?

and his answer would be, "because I'm a c*nt*.

 

[Visionary]

Thanks to us, a very rich c*nt, lol. t:

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

Now that's a question I would love an interviewer to ask Raimi, why do you always kill the villains at the end, why not have them ALL live?

They shouldn't ALL live. Some should live, some should die.

Kraven should die. Scorpion should die. Electro should die. If they used Carnage, he should die. Beyond that, I think all the others should live.

 

[Tempest19]

Srry for the plug- Lizard fans check out my sig for how I would deal with the Lizard if he was in a film. A mixture of the films, with comics, with the 90s animated series.

 

[Spidey_87]

A bit of topic, but if Kraven is included in the next movie with our green Reptilian friend, I just bought the entire "Kraven's Last Hunt" storyline today from Lonestar Comics. I have some of his earlier appearances before this story, but I have never really checked into this one, even though some individuals hold it to be the definitive Kraven story.

 

[Spiderine]

Connors and Peter will work together on a cure between transformations.

 

[Mr Jide]

Damn, I want the transformation to be scary and quite freaky in the sense that its like, "oh snap this guy is gonna do a twisted jekyl/hyde stunt".

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

For featured characters, I would include Maxwell Dillon (ELECTRO) but no ELECTRO the super-powered villain. Just MAXWELL DILLON. .

What would be the point in including Maxwell Dillon? He never caught me as a character who needed to be introduced in the movie prior to the one in which he becomes Electro. Do you have any ideas as to how he would contribute to the story?

 

[The Lizard]

Absolutely NOT.

That would be...The Lizard Meets The GoodFellas. I dare not go into my~what works in the comics, doesn't always work on screen. But that would be the case here.

What people should understand is, when it comes to The Lizard, because he's an animalistic character, you can't mix but so many concepts in terms of other villain(s) with him. You can't really have The Lizard being a fully thinking creature, that's what Connors is for. On screen, even Connors' family should be in danger when he's around them. No King Kong type thing, where he'll kill any human, but won't kill his lady love. This brings some dramatic and heart felt situations to the story at hand. A man who loves his family, but is also terrified of being around them, namely because he'll leave them a pile of shreaded flesh. This isn't the HULK, where Connors knows that he doesn't kill, so he knows that The Lizard doesn't kill. This would also fall into the character of the comics not liking HUMANS.

The wrong combination would take away from Connors/The Lizard and not let his character/story evolve. This is why I'm scared that they'll choose the wrong combination.

Here are my only choices for SM4 with THE LIZARD as the main villain:

1) There's only THE LIZARD, no secondary villain. Just Spider-Man vs. The Lizard.

2) KRAVEN THE HUNTER, the combination of the Lizard, Spidey and Kraven, would literally give way to the character development all three characters simultaneously.

For featured characters, I would include Maxwell Dillon (ELECTRO) but no ELECTRO the super-powered villain. Just MAXWELL DILLON. Also, this would be the movie, that the public finds out that DOCTOR OCTOPUS may not be dead, a sighting perhaps written in the Daily Bugle. I wouldn't mind just seeing those tentacles moving about at the end of the film, no full body shown, just those beloved tentacles. Lights on!

Personally, I think the Lizard/Kraven combination would be a great fourth movie.

Well Vis, I'm glad you want to see Lizzy in SM4, and I agree that the Lizard by himself is the best scenario possible.
However, I think some of your visions for the Lizard are a bit too close to the horror movie genre with respect to him tearing everyone to pieces and theatening his family and such. The Silver-age Lizard was indeed too merciful, while the 1990s Lizard was too savage. I think there's a balance to be found somewhere in between. Particularly if Lizzy is the ONLY villain in the film and remains in Lizard-form most of that time, he can't be a rampaging killer the whole time.

My reasoning with the Maggia (and there certainly doesn't have to be any link between the Maggia and the Lizard in the storyline), is that there needs to be more Spidey vs crooks action that doesn't involve super villains. The scene in SM1 where Spidey stops the bank robbers in the street was great, classic Spidey stuff. Lots of real-world acrobatics and action, not so much CGI. This is the kind of stuff I want to see more of in a Spidey movie. I want to see Spidey infiltrate a mob boss's HQ and battle his way past dozens of thugs with automatic weapons. Tombstone is a good back-up here to keep things from getting too one-sided in Spidey's favor, but he should just be a minor character overall. Thus we don't need any origin stories (except maybe a throwaway line explaining Tombstone's powers), or JJJ coming up with villain names or costumed villains. Just Spidey cleaning up the streets of NY before he has to tangle with the Lizard.

Also, regarding a Kraven/Lizard combination in SM4 -- this was just recently done as a storyline in the SM3 video game, so the chances of that happening onscreen might be greatly reduced now.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

Well Vis, I'm glad you want to see Lizzy in SM4, and I agree that the Lizard by himself is the best scenario possible.
However, I think some of your visions for the Lizard are a bit too close to the horror movie genre with respect to him tearing everyone to pieces and theatening his family and such. The Silver-age Lizard was indeed too merciful, while the 1990s Lizard was too savage. I think there's a balance to be found somewhere in between. Particularly if Lizzy is the ONLY villain in the film and remains in Lizard-form most of that time, he can't be a rampaging killer the whole time.

My reasoning with the Maggia (and there certainly doesn't have to be any link between the Maggia and the Lizard in the storyline), is that there needs to be more Spidey vs crooks action that doesn't involve super villains. The scene in SM1 where Spidey stops the bank robbers in the street was great, classic Spidey stuff. Lots of real-world acrobatics and action, not so much CGI. This is the kind of stuff I want to see more of in a Spidey movie. I want to see Spidey infiltrate a mob boss's HQ and battle his way past dozens of thugs with automatic weapons. Tombstone is a good back-up here to keep things from getting too one-sided in Spidey's favor, but he should just be a minor character overall. Thus we don't need any origin stories (except maybe a throwaway line explaining Tombstone's powers), or JJJ coming up with villain names or costumed villains. Just Spidey cleaning up the streets of NY before he has to tangle with the Lizard.

Also, regarding a Kraven/Lizard combination in SM4 -- this was just recently done as a storyline in the SM3 video game, so the chances of that happening onscreen might be greatly reduced now.

Sh**. That sucks.

Man... they're blowing an opprotunity if they don't use a Kraven-Lizard combo. If they don't, I do like your Maggia idea. I definately want to see Spidey going up against more regular criminals... I wished that, for SM3, maybe instead of (or even in addition to) the dancing crap, we saw black Spidey take down some bank robbers and totally just beat the sh** out of them... and then realize he was becoming a monster.