I respect and admire Joel Schumacher.

[Rocketman]

In my opinion, the man was hired for a job. He had very little creative control (other than nipples and various production designs). He didn’t write any of the scripts. He’s on record saying he wanted to direct darker material.

- He didn’t write Batman & Robin.
- He has gone on record apologizing for Batman & Robin.
- He has gone on record saying that a third Batman film would’ve been much darker.

In my eyes, what else does everyone want from him?

Nipples represented Greek statues, symbolizing Michelangelo’s sculpture of the David.

- These two movies were made for children.
- Nolan’s movies were made more for adults.
- Different approaches, different interpretations.

WB interfered because Burton’s Batman Returns was pushing R-rated material, and they were very clear on making more kid-friendly movies. So? Where does the blame on Schumacher come into play? It shouldn’t.

I respect and admire Schumacher for being so honest and candid, and for putting up with the utter crap from fanboys that he’s received over the years.

Joel Schumacher:

Long ago, when this whole thing started, Batman: Year One, the Frank Miller comic, was always my favorite. And I was always hoping that I would do that one. There was no desire (from WB) to do that the first time around (Batman Forever), and there was definitely no desire to do that the second time around (Batman & Robin).

Joel Schumacher:

Batman Forever kind of crept up on people. Batman & Robin was so overhyped from the minute we said we were going to do it, that I think that backfires many times. When you’re supposed to be a blockbuster, then it has to be.

Joel Schumacher:

In Batman & Robin, there was a real desire at the studio to keep it more family friendly, more kid friendly, and, a word I’d never heard before, more ‘toyetic’, which means that what you create makes toys that can sell.

Peter Macgregor-Scott (Producer):

We involved the toy company. We let them look and be involved in how the Batmobile was going to look, how Batman’s gadgets were going to be, which they wanted - this is key to them - they needed a lot of lead time.

Joel Schumacher:

The merchandising and licensing became a very, very important part of the making of the film. But I also have to say, I was an adult. I was awake. And I went along with it. So I’m not pointing a finger at anyone else and saying they made me do this, alright? I was there.

Joel Schumacher:

The studio wanted me to do a fifth Batman, which would’ve been my third, which would’ve featured the Scarecrow. And I just couldn’t do it. It just really wasn’t in me anymore. It has to be a true passion. It can’t be a job. And it can’t be because people expect you to do it. If there’s anybody that, let’s say, loved Batman Forever and went into Batman & Robin with great anticipation, if I disappointed them in any way, then I really want to apologize, because it wasn’t my intention. My intention was just to entertain them.

I can’t believe how simple and spelled out everything is:

- The man was pushed by the studio.
- The toy company was running the whole show.

Schumacher has very little to do with it, in my opinion.

So, for what the movies are, I can’t help but respect the hell out of the man. I don't care if the movies are terrible crap or not. He did what he was hired to do.

If blame should be directed at anyone, it should be directed at Akiva Goldsman.

And yet, Goldsman never seems to be mentioned when it comes to the discussion of why the Batman franchise was destroyed in 1997.

 

[Majik1387]

Schumacher's awesome in my book.

 

[Ponyboy]

Don't try and remove the blame totally from Schumacher. If Schumacher didn't like what the studio wanted, he could very well backed out the film. All that means is some other director would've gotten the job and done exactly what Schumacher did. Everyone is at fault. For Schumacher to say after the fact that he wanted to do "Year One" doesn't make him any less (or more) credible. What's done is done. In this business, it's the producers and the directors that really call the shots... and they are ultimately to blame for what you see onscreen. That said, I don't dislike Schumacher. I like Batman Forever to some degree. Batman & Robin is great for a total laugh fest with your mates... and Schumachers gave us several other, quite frankly, excellent films.

 

[Bathead]

Well , I do think he must share some of the blame, but I can see how pressure from the suits could have caused him problems. I also think the sometimes utter hatred of the man by Bat-fans is an extreme over-reaction, and undesereved. I remember a fan once said, when they heard that the fellow who played Bane in B+R had died said, more or less ''Good, too bad Scumacher and the rest didn't die with him." That's just wrong, and although the reaction from most fans was't that vile, it was still over the top in most cases.

 

[Ponyboy]

I despised B&R when I saw it in the theatre. My brother and I were shocked. I remember going home and my parents said "How was the movie?" and we were both speechless...haha... BUT, I've grown to love the film for what it is. I will crack it out every now and then for some good laughs.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

Ive never hated Batman & Robin. Ive never hated Schumacher. I think hes a good director and has done some great films. Viuially B&R is stunning. Production (sets/costumes) is amazing. I once wrote a blog entitles "A Bright Knight and a Neon Gotham", it was about B&R. I actually received alot of compliments on it and made people start to view things a bit differently. I will say that, imo, most of the hate is totally uncalled for and is actually just hollow words being written by people who are just trying to "fit in" with the rest of the crowd. It was a movie. It didnt end the franchise, it was never going to, the character didnt disappear. Batman and his history and future are still intact.

 

[Webbed Will]

It seems that many people too often wrongfully assume that Schumacher is a bad director based off of Batman & Robin being a disappointment. He actually has a decent body of work, if one were to pay attention to it. It's interesting because when you look at the list of the films he has done, a lot of them are darker in tone, so I believe him when he says that he had wanted to make a darker Batman film. And I think that while Batman Forever was certainly not as dark as Burton's films, it had some dark elements to it. I've always felt that film gets unfairly bundled with Batman & Robin just because Schumacher directed it.

I don't think anyone is trying to take any blame off of Schumacher. He himself takes blame for Batman & Robin. What some people have to realize is that sometimes when a director is hired, he is setting out to deliver the film that the studio wants released. He is expected to maintain a certain vision for the project. Especially on a big franchise film like Batman. Yes, Schumacher directed it and did the job he was hired to do, but the studio was responsible from the moment that they allowed the toy company to have input. They made it clear what kind of vision they wanted, and they hired Schumacher because they thought that he was the best guy to deliver that vision.

I respect Schumacher for being a professional and not trying to shove the blame off of himself. He was hired to do a job and he did it. The result was a disappointment to fans, but he owned up to it and apologized to those who were let down. After that, he moved on. Everyone else should move on, as well.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Joel Schumacher hired Akiva Goldsman to rewrite Lee and Janet Scott-Batchler's Batman 3 script into Batman Forever.

The campy comedy, the nipples and over-sized codpieces on Batman and Robin's crotches, the gratuitous butt closeups, and exaggerated beef-cake muscles on the costumes, Robin being an adult diva wearing an earring and a buzz-cut, the neon Gotham with glow in the dark Batmobiles, glow in the dark gangs, flamboyantly pink haired Riddler with a glow in the dark suit, pink painted faced Two-Face wearing a half pink suit with black zebra stripes and giggling like a clown, all the casting and directing, these were all Joel Schumacher's ideas. Warner Brothers actually gave Joel Schumacher too much freedom.

Warner Brothers just wanted kid-friendly/family-friendly live-action Batman films without all the killing, grotesque blood, gore and sexual elements and naughty words of Tim Burton's Batman Returns. Some other director could have just made the live-action films closer to Bruce Timm's Batman: The Animated Series. Pulling back on the graphic brutality of the violence and sexual elements and naughty words, so there wont be anything that's going to be really upsetting to children and offensive to their parents, while retaining a serious tone, adult themes and noirish atmosphere, which might have even persuaded Michael Keaton to stay on as Batman.

 

[El Payaso]

In my opinion, the man was hired for a job. He had very little creative control (other than nipples and various production designs). He didn’t write any of the scripts. He’s on record saying he wanted to direct darker material.

In my opinion, you don't accept a job that might humilliate you as an artist, and if you do, then it's your fault. Saying what his intentions were/could have been helps little to nothing. Results are results. Good intentions is what the road to hell is paved with.

- He didn’t write Batman & Robin.
- He has gone on record apologizing for Batman & Robin.
- He has gone on record saying that a third Batman film would’ve been much darker.

- He accepted the direction of Batman & Robin. When you put your signature on a document, even if you didn't write it yourself, then it's all your responsibility.
- Apologizing just makes it obvious that it was a mistake. And that it was his fault.
- What would've, could've, should've means absolutely nothing.

In my eyes, what else does everyone want from him?

A good movie.

That all I wanted. Not anything else I wanted.

Nipples represented Greek statues, symbolizing Michelangelo’s sculpture of the David.

Schumacher:

"I had no idea that putting nipples on the Batsuit and Robin suit were going to spark international headlines. The bodies of the suits come from ancient Greek statues, which display perfect bodies. They are anatomically erotic."

Thge nipples might have come from Greek statues, but he put them for erotic reasons. Enough said.


Anyways, what is the official justification for butt shots? Any executive put a gun on Joel's head so he included those? Are butts coming from ancient Rome or something?

- These two movies were made for children.
- Nolan’s movies were made more for adults.
- Different approaches, different interpretations.

- I don't see how nipples and butts are kid-friendly stuff.
- I don't see what Nolan could possibly have to do here.
- Different approaches don't justify bad movies.

WB interfered because Burton’s Batman Returns was pushing R-rated material, and they were very clear on making more kid-friendly movies. So? Where does the blame on Schumacher come into play? It shouldn’t.

Where does the blame on Schumacher come into play?

He directed the movies.

How about that as responsibility?

I respect and admire Schumacher for being so honest and candid, and for putting up with the utter crap from fanboys that he’s received over the years.

You admire him for having to face the consequences of his actions. It's what's expected from everyone.

I can’t believe how simple and spelled out everything is:

- The man was pushed by the studio.
- The toy company was running the whole show.

I can’t believe how simple and spelled out everything is:

- The man wasn't pointed with a gun, blackmailed or forced. He was paid for it. He was fee to sign in. And he did.
- The toy company didn't direct the movies.

Schumacher has very little to do with it, in my opinion.

Directing a movie has a lot to do with the results of such movie. I'd say that's not even an opinion.

So, for what the movies are, I can’t help but respect the hell out of the man. I don't care if the movies are terrible crap or not. He did what he was hired to do.

So if I hire a man to kill someone people should have nothing but resopect the man. He did what he was hired to.

The movies are bad. Schumacher was dirtercting. He is responsible.

If blame should be directed at anyone, it should be directed at Akiva Goldsman.

He is to blame as well. As well as Joel.

And yet, Goldsman never seems to be mentioned when it comes to the discussion of why the Batman franchise was destroyed in 1997.

You don't know why is that?

You quoted Joel yourself:

"So I’m not pointing a finger at anyone else and saying they made me do this, alright?"

So there.

 

[GothamAlleys]

I disliked Schumacher's Batman movies big time, but I never hated Schumacher. Untill he started offending people who dislike his Batman movies and people who think Batman should be serious. People are talking about that supposed, seconds-log apology on the DVD? Right, then check out all of his other interviews when he gets worked up and gets nuts and offensive towards those that dont like his Bat movies and when he gets an attitude towards those who expected Batman movies NOT to be for kids. I already quoted and spoke about that a lot, but in short, ever since I read those interviews about 2 years ago I cant stand the guy as a person and think he was the worst possible choice to handle the franchise. And you know, whaddya expect from a guy who says stuff like "its a comic book movie, who cares" and "its called COMIC book not TRAGIC book"...

 

[Majik1387]

To be fair, if you had to put up with all those crazed fanboys hating you, odds are you'd be a bit defensive.

 

[Bathead]

Exactly Majik. I would get a little defensive too, if I was getting death wishes and all that vitriol and hatred thrown at me.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I never disliked Batman & Robin, may it be Schumacher's fault or not, I liked it while I had disliking for Batman Forever, and in recent years I liked that

Never thought it wasn't more of his work, when I saw Phantom of the Opera and saw the sets saw a huge difference thought "He could make a decent set, why did he make Batman too colorful?"

 

[El Payaso]

To be fair, if you had to put up with all those crazed fanboys hating you, odds are you'd be a bit defensive.

After 10 years you can laugh it off too. BF was pretty much successful.

 

[Spoonman]

I don't hate Schumacher, I actually like many of his movies and its very ironic that most of his body of work is composed of dark and serious material yet he got to do the family friendly Bat films, but oh well cest la vie (sp?) I guess.

 

[cryptic name]

When I watch Batman Forever, I sort of see Schumacher trying to do what Rodriguez did with Sin City, but 10 years earlier. He was trying to recreate a comic book world. The problems were he was trying to recreate a world that hadn't existed in comics for 30 years at that point, and that he didn't go headlong enough into that concept. B&R only amplified the negative aspects of Forever while retaining almost none of the positives.

There are things that were not his fault, that's true. But there were also many, many creative decisions that he made or ok'd that could have been much much better. The man's a good filmmaker, but he didn't really show it with his two Batman movies.

 

[christpunchers]

BF for me will always bring back good memories. The normal cut of the film is over the top, but still has enough dark elements to keep reminding me of its potential. Plus its theme of to-be or not to-be is very strong. Too bad the deleted scenes were never reworked into a director's cut.

Batman and Robin was unforgiven. Granted, I found the dying Alfred subplot to be quite good. Some touching moments between Clooney and the late Michael Gough are golden, as if they belonged to a better film.

I don't mind Schumacher, he was what the world needed right after BR.

 

[christpunchers]

It seems that many people too often wrongfully assume that Schumacher is a bad director based off of Batman & Robin being a disappointment. He actually has a decent body of work, if one were to pay attention to it. It's interesting because when you look at the list of the films he has done, a lot of them are darker in tone, so I believe him when he says that he had wanted to make a darker Batman film. And I think that while Batman Forever was certainly not as dark as Burton's films, it had some dark elements to it. I've always felt that film gets unfairly bundled with Batman & Robin just because Schumacher directed it.

I don't think anyone is trying to take any blame off of Schumacher. He himself takes blame for Batman & Robin. What some people have to realize is that sometimes when a director is hired, he is setting out to deliver the film that the studio wants released. He is expected to maintain a certain vision for the project. Especially on a big franchise film like Batman. Yes, Schumacher directed it and did the job he was hired to do, but the studio was responsible from the moment that they allowed the toy company to have input. They made it clear what kind of vision they wanted, and they hired Schumacher because they thought that he was the best guy to deliver that vision.

I respect Schumacher for being a professional and not trying to shove the blame off of himself. He was hired to do a job and he did it. The result was a disappointment to fans, but he owned up to it and apologized to those who were let down. After that, he moved on. Everyone else should move on, as well.

I too believe BF had plenty of dark elements to it. I remember reading the novelization as a kid, it was great, but a lot was cut out in the transition to the silver screen.

To this day, those brief scenes where Bruce was knocked out by Two-Face's bullets and wondering about his father's diary along with finding the big-bat after he falls into the cave, forced to confront the next phase of his life.... they still resonate strongly with me.

 

[christpunchers]

Ive never hated Batman & Robin. Ive never hated Schumacher. I think hes a good director and has done some great films. Viuially B&R is stunning. Production (sets/costumes) is amazing. I once wrote a blog entitles "A Bright Knight and a Neon Gotham", it was about B&R. I actually received alot of compliments on it and made people start to view things a bit differently. I will say that, imo, most of the hate is totally uncalled for and is actually just hollow words being written by people who are just trying to "fit in" with the rest of the crowd. It was a movie. It didnt end the franchise, it was never going to, the character didnt disappear. Batman and his history and future are still intact.

Wow, very interesting tidbit of history right now. I'd be interested in reading your blog, if it still can be read.

I too think the hate is just too much. I see many *****ing about Schmuacher and even Burton while kneeling at Nolan's altar. But how many of them actually saw the original 4 movies, even if it's just TV re-runs and not when they were first released? You can dislike something but still respect its place in history and its significance.

 

[christpunchers]

Goldsman did a fantastic job with the extended BF script which was never made into the final film. He too was just hired to make a movie as the studios saw fit. I wouldn't go so far as to say Goldsman is anymore responsible than Schumacher. He's probably the one with the less amount of control as to what will and will not appear on screen, he's just there to write within certain specifications that others push him to write.

 

[Two-Face]

As I said before I like Forever for what it is but Batman & Robin I can not take I like to pretend that Batman & Robin film doesn't exist though I have box set of four movies on blu-ray I watched Forever the most out of the two. Burton & Nolan movies I watch more.

As for much for Joel Schumacher he was the director so what he says goes he decides what the movie will look like everyone has listens to the director. Goldsman was also has to be blame be here but again it's the director who decides really.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

As for much for Joel Schumacher he was the director so what he says goes he decides what the movie will look like everyone has listens to the director. Goldsman was also has to be blame be here but again it's the director who decides really.

Not really, the producer decides in most cases. There are just a few directors in Hollywood who can truly turn something into "their movie".

"Batman & Robin" was in general the result of false assumptions and greed. Batman Forever was a huge success, not only box office wise but also when it comes to merchandise. So people involved probably thought: "So let's go one step further, give them more!".

 

[GothamAlleys]

Goldsman did a fantastic job with the extended BF script which was never made into the final film. He too was just hired to make a movie as the studios saw fit. I wouldn't go so far as to say Goldsman is anymore responsible than Schumacher. He's probably the one with the less amount of control as to what will and will not appear on screen, he's just there to write within certain specifications that others push him to write.

Im not sure about that. He was the one who wrote that god awful dialogue thats a joke to Batman mythos.

"It's the car, chicks dig the car", "I'll get drive through", "Try a fireman. Less to take off. Im an open book, you read?...

Basically anything between Chase and Batman is the most ridiculous dialogue Ive ever heard aside with Troll 2. Similar with TwoFace and Riddler

 

[GothamAlleys]

Not really, the producer decides in most cases. There are just a few directors in Hollywood who can truly turn something into "their movie".

"Batman & Robin" was in general the result of false assumptions and greed. Batman Forever was a huge success, not only box office wise but also when it comes to merchandise. So people involved probably thought: "So let's go one step further, give them more!".

I very much disagree. Many great directors (Spielberg recently) said that you can have the same script but 2 different directors and you would basically have 2 completely different movies. The feel, the design, the vision, the characters etc., its all from the director. The producer okays or denies some creative decisions but the movie is always the Director's baby and vision. For example, the Alien script is a B movie rehash of a story thats been told in 4 B crappy movie stories already. Yet its the way Scott envisioned it and presented it onscreen that made all the difference

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

Wow, very interesting tidbit of history right now. I'd be interested in reading your blog, if it still can be read.

Unfortunately no. My blog page has since gone the way of the dinosaurs. I used to have it on Myspace, and well, thats no more. lol I "think" i still have a hard copy in one of my notebooks somewhere. I should try to look for it again.


At the time of Batman & Robin, Batman was at his highest. Forever jumpstarted the the movie franchise back into high gear. The comics were doing well. Merchnadising was at its strongest with mulltiple toy lines and just general merchandise everywhere. You had the cartoons. Batman was everywhere. WB, I think, just didnt know what else to do except keep filling the bubble. It just so happened they went too much and it popped.