MCU Fight: Thor vs Hulk

[BigThor]

Just here to give some support to my boy Thor. Had fun reading all the back and forths in this match up.

Glad you enjoyed yourself, It's been a very eventful 3 days to say the least lol.

 

[BigThor]

Oh and it's my birthdayyyyyyyyyy!

 

[HammerDown]

It's neck and neck.

 

[Kuwolski]

How much time is left is irrelevant if there's a very sudden and fast influx of votes that just outbalances the amount of regular posters that vote. I'd rather say that there being a lot of time left is an argument that makes it more relevant to restart it, if that's what they want to do, as people have more than enough time to see that and put in their votes again. That's up to the guys that handle these polls though since it's their time and efforts that's being disrespected by potential cheating.

So? Maybe people are more interested in this true heavyweight match-up.

Is there a rule against voting without stating why? Some posters just don't want to go in circles in a debate.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

So? Maybe people are more interested in this true heavyweight match-up.

Is there a rule against voting without stating why? Some posters just don't want to go in circles in a debate.

That's already been discussed and if you want to ignore that there's legit suspicions, even to the point where a mod has offered assistance, then that's all you.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I believe shenanigans happened, but I think a revote is best course of action, personally.

 

[DrCosmic]

So? Maybe people are more interested in this true heavyweight match-up.

Is there a rule against voting without stating why? Some posters just don't want to go in circles in a debate.

This is actually deep.

What do we do when the popular vote is not interested in facts? Do we go with the voting or with the facts? While I'm all for restarting, what this group of votes has shown is that at least one person is very dedicated to voting for Hulk to beat Thor on the SHH, and not interested in any particulars of whether or not this is possible.

The poll assumes that people will abide by the intent of the thread, but there is nothing, not even a mechanism to enforce it. Hulk in particular is a character whose very power is passion over substance, and perhaps it was inevitable that some who find him most appealing work in that vein. I think we would find a similar phenomenon in polls about Wolverine. The appeal of the character may drive the poll more than it does for other characters who appeal because of their limits and specific abilities.

 

[Spider-Fan]

This is actually deep.

What do we do when the popular vote is not interested in facts? Do we go with the voting or with the facts? While I'm all for restarting, what this group of votes has shown is that at least one person is very dedicated to voting for Hulk to beat Thor on the SHH, and not interested in any particulars of whether or not this is possible.

The poll assumes that people will abide by the intent of the thread, but there is nothing, not even a mechanism to enforce it. Hulk in particular is a character whose very power is passion over substance, and perhaps it was inevitable that some who find him most appealing work in that vein. I think we would find a similar phenomenon in polls about Wolverine. The appeal of the character may drive the poll more than it does for other characters who appeal because of their limits and specific abilities.

I think this poll mirrors Thor: Ragnarok, on the cusp of victory, the Grandmaster tampers with the fight allowing Hulk to score the dubious "win"

 

[Kuwolski]

The poll assumes that people will abide by the intent of the thread, but there is nothing, not even a mechanism to enforce it. Hulk in particular is a character whose very power is passion over substance, and perhaps it was inevitable that some who find him most appealing work in that vein. I think we would find a similar phenomenon in polls about Wolverine. The appeal of the character may drive the poll more than it does for other characters who appeal because of their limits and specific abilities.

I agree with this, but a certain percentage of voters will always vote with their passion over logic. You even mentioned this in the Cap vs. Panther thread. Given the relatively equal abilities that both possess, BP's tech advantage should logically give him a substantial win in the poll, but it didn't. I've always questioned why these polls aren't made public, to me it just invites this kind of thing, but it's not my creation so I let it be.

There will always be a heavy grey area when it comes to these battles, so perhaps it should acknowledged more. They'll never be 100% legitimate. How can they be, circumstance has always played a key role.

 

[metaphysician]

Thor, and its not really in much doubt. Every single fight where Hulk has fought Thor, he has benefited from handicaps in his favor: Thor lacking Mjolnir, or Thor being unable to use Mjolnir's full power due to the surroundings. As soon as Thor started tapping his true power in Ragnarok? The fight went the other way until the Grandmaster cheated.

Put bluntly, Hulk's only advantage is marginally greater strength and durability. Everything else is in Thor's column.

 

[DrCosmic]

I agree with this, but a certain percentage of voters will always vote with their passion over logic. You even mentioned this in the Cap vs. Panther thread. Given the relatively equal abilities that both possess, BP's tech advantage should logically give him a substantial win in the poll, but it didn't. I've always questioned why these polls aren't made public, to me it just invites this kind of thing, but it's not my creation so I let it be.

There will always be a heavy grey area when it comes to these battles, so perhaps it should acknowledged more. They'll never be 100% legitimate. How can they be, circumstance has always played a key role.

But it hasn't always been key. It's not always 60% of the vote for a character comes from a sudden surge of silent disinterested votes. For BP and Cap, Cap fans cared enough to post their crazy ideas. They did what they were literally invited to do, and not just what they could do and say those who left the door unlocked asked for it.

I'm starting to be amused when people use this "all or nothing" type of logic. No, it's not 100% accurate, but not only does it not need to be to accomplish the explicit goal, but that's even MORE reason to defend the accuracy that is there. This level of inaccuracy actually undermines the goal of the thread series, and there's no gray area about that.

 

[Kuwolski]

But it hasn't always been key. It's not always 60% of the vote for a character comes from a sudden surge of silent disinterested votes. For BP and Cap, Cap fans cared enough to post their crazy ideas. They did what they were literally invited to do, and not just what they could do and say those who left the door unlocked asked for it.

I'm starting to be amused when people use this "all or nothing" type of logic. No, it's not 100% accurate, but not only does it not need to be to accomplish the explicit goal, but that's even MORE reason to defend the accuracy that is there. This level of inaccuracy actually undermines the goal of the thread series, and there's no gray area about that.

In the future make the poll public. That's the first most obvious step I would have made to help insure "accuracy". Then you can call out voters who voted but didn't post. Make it a rule going forward, if you vote you have to post why. If not then you can't complain. The internet will be the internet and someone will want to undermine the goal for simply liking one character more then the other, or just to screw things up for sh**'s & giggles.

 

[DrCosmic]

In the future make the poll public. That's the first most obvious step I would have made to help insure "accuracy". Then you can call out voters who voted but didn't post. Make it a rule going forward, if you vote you have to post why. If not then you can't complain. The internet will be the internet and someone will want to undermine the goal for simply liking one character more then the other, or just to screw things up for sh**'s & giggles.

Ah, but there's already rules in place that weren't followed, and even if there weren't, when a goal is stated, and someone undermines that goal, you can still address that conflict, even if you didn't spell out rules, which are no more necessary to address they goal than they are to know how to screw things up for lulz.

There's not really a way around it. Someone has done something highly organized to screw up someone else's work. The entirety of the blame for that lies on the person who intentionally did such a thing, not on those who have a great system and community working towards a goal for not anticipating the worst.

I'm the last person to use the word "victim blaming" but if I leave my door unlocked and you come take my TV, "he should have known better than to leave his door unlocked" is not a defense, it's an admission of guilt.

 

[Kuwolski]

Ah, but there's already rules in place that weren't followed, and even if there weren't, when a goal is stated, and someone undermines that goal, you can still address that conflict, even if you didn't spell out rules, which are no more necessary to address they goal than they are to know how to screw things up for lulz.

There's not really a way around it. Someone has done something highly organized to screw up someone else's work. The entirety of the blame for that lies on the person who intentionally did such a thing, not on those who have a great system and community working towards a goal for not anticipating the worst.

I'm the last person to use the word "victim blaming" but if I leave my door unlocked and you come take my TV, "he should have known better than to leave his door unlocked" is not a defense, it's an admission of guilt.

Great system easily undermined (if someone chooses to) because the simple option of making the votes public wasn't used. Now you are left to make it about "someone". Consider this a beta test which can be improved moving forward.

 

[BigThor]

Great system easily undermined (if someone chooses to) because the simple option of making the votes public wasn't used. Now you are left to make it about "someone". Consider this a beta test which can be improved moving forward.

Yes we most definitely will bro, from now on the votes will be public so everyone can see them.

 

[Kuwolski]

Good move

 

[Surfer]

Wow, this poll has blown up with people voting and I certainly did not expect it to be this close. Shenanigans or not.

Surfer

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I think this is probably one of the hardest to pick but Thor gets my vote. As shown in the Sakaar fight, Thor likely would have won had the Grandmaster not tampered.

 

[m2k]

Lol. Had a feeling this would be a split decision, especially after Ragnarok.
I'm a Hulk guy so gotta go with him but I think it can go either way with these 2.

 

[Finarfiniel]

I love how, despite clear shenanigans (a.k.a. cheating, my personal headcanon being that the Grandmaster got a load of his minions to sign up just to vote for his Champion) taking place in this vote, Thor has still managed to claw his way back up to be drawing level. Such is the power of the Mighty Thor.

 

[All-Father]

Thor wins this!

 

[Batmannerism]

On a somewhat related note, got Ragnarok on DVD, can't get enough of it. The wife and I love this movie, the New Zealand references are hilarious " Piss off ghost!" LOL

As a lifelong DC fan I ask myself every day, why can't Superman get treatment like that ?

I can only hope Disney buys DC and starts making decent movies. Maybe that's Marvel's phase 5.

 

[BigThor]

On a somewhat related note, got Ragnarok on DVD, can't get enough of it. The wife and I love this movie, the New Zealand references are hilarious " Piss off ghost!" LOL

As a lifelong DC fan I ask myself every day, why can't Superman get treatment like that ?

I can only hope Disney buys DC and starts making decent movies. Maybe that's Marvel's phase 5.

It's truly an amazing movie, I'm drunk af watching it right now.

 

[HammerDown]

On a somewhat related note, got Ragnarok on DVD, can't get enough of it. The wife and I love this movie, the New Zealand references are hilarious " Piss off ghost!" LOL

Talk about rewatchability. I have seen it 5 or 6 times now. It's just a pleasure and delight everytime.

 

[Batmannerism]

Talk about rewatchability. I have seen it 5 or 6 times now. It's just a pleasure and delight everytime.

Yup ! I love Thor's sense of optimism. Tons of bad **** happens to him and the people he cares about, but he still stays upbeat "Because that's what heroes do !"