MCU Fight: Thor Vs. Hulk

[Adhesive Boy]

Great anger will make you confused. Really angry people lose their ability to think straight, so if Hulk had unlimited anger (emotions of course aren't unlimited, but for the sake of argument) he'd eventually stop being able to do anything with much thought behind it and be just as likely to hurt himself as anything else. The concept doesn't really work.

 

[Fosterson]

Great anger will make you confused. Really angry people lose their ability to think straight, so if Hulk had unlimited anger (emotions of course aren't unlimited, but for the sake of argument) he'd eventually stop being able to do anything with much thought behind it and be just as likely to hurt himself as anything else. The concept doesn't really work.

True. I remember the Death Battle video of Hulk Vs Doomsday and them saying that Hulk can't keep getting angrier and angrier forever. He'll eventually hit his limit.

OT, Thor.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I wasn't going to bother commenting, but it seems like if you don't comment, your vote might not be considered valid.

I voted Hulk. Sure, Thor could daze Hulk with Mjolner or a lightning blast, but that's just temporary. It won't kill him. And what doesn't kill hulk makes him angrier. And Thor wouldn't like Hulk when he's angry.

I don't think we've seen Hulk truly angry yet, and I don't believe Hulk was the one saved in the arena. I think Thor was the one who was saved (along with the spectators who might have gotten caught up in his wrath).

 

[Spider-Fan]

Votes are public now, so they should all count.

 

[BigThor]

Votes are public now, so they should all count.

You know it bro ham.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think it's totally possible Hulk will get a power up revelation like Thor did. But until that happens... this is the Hulk we have.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

People are using Hulk being knocked out in AOU as some sort of barometer, but are forgetting g the fact that SW's spell made everyone weak when it wore off, yes even Thor. The spell had wore off when Hulk got hit, so like everyone else, he was weaker at this point.

 

[BigThor]

For those of you who don't know, you have to click on the vote numbers to see who voted for whom.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

People are using Hulk being knocked out in AOU as some sort of barometer, but are forgetting g the fact that SW's spell made everyone weak when it wore off, yes even Thor. The spell had wore off when Hulk got hit, so like everyone else, he was weaker at this point.

Hulk was knocked out by the fall from the Helicarrier in The Avengers though. Thor fell from that height as well and didn't get knocked out (and before someone tries, his jump out of the cell was horizontal and does not affect his falling velocity).

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Hulk was knocked out by the fall from the Helicarrier in The Avengers though. Thor fell from that height as well and didn't get knocked out (and before someone tries, his jump out of the cell was horizontal and does not affect his falling velocity).

Hulk wasn't knocked out, as the security guard said in the movie himself, he was awake when he fell. He just reverted back to Banner after landing.

Thor's impact seemed like it would have been less painful.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

Hulk wasn't knocked out, as the security guard said in the movie himself, he was awake when he fell. He just reverted back to Banner after landing.

Thor's impact seemed like it would have been less painful.

Yes, when he fell, not after he landed. Hulk doesn't revert back to Banner when he gets hurt, unless he is knocked out. Being hurt makes Hulk angry.

The scene has Banner asking if he hurt anyone, and says "lucky" when he's told he didn't. To that the guard replies "or just good aim, you were awake when you fell." The message is that he guard thinks Hulk steered his fall to this place. The "good aim" part becomes entirely nonsensical if you think he's talking about that Hulk crashed and remained conscious, as well as that it's a nonsensical answer to Banner.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yes, when he fell, not after he landed. Hulk doesn't revert back to Banner when he gets hurt, unless he is knocked out. Being hurt makes Hulk angry.

The scene has Banner asking if he hurt anyone, and says "lucky" when he's told he didn't. To that the guard replies "or just good aim, you were awake when you fell." The message is that he guard thinks Hulk steered his fall to this place. The "good aim" part becomes entirely nonsensical if you think he's talking about that Hulk crashed and remained conscious, as well as that it's a nonsensical answer to Banner.

It could really be interpreted either way though, Hulk lands, calms down and then reverts to Banner, which often in both the comics and movies can make Banner go unconscious.

I know the message of the scene, but it could really be interpreted either way, and without us actually seeing we don't know if Hulk was knocked out or not.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

It could really be interpreted either way though, Hulk lands, calms down and then reverts to Banner, which often in both the comics and movies can make Banner go unconscious.

I know the message of the scene, but it could really be interpreted either way, and without us actually seeing we don't know if Hulk was knocked out or not.

No, it can't. The guard is clearly just talking about what happened in the air. His words are nonsensical if he was talking about Hulk being conscious after the fall, and as a reply to what Banner said, so the only way you can interpret it like that is if you make up that the guard also has dementia.

We also fully well know that Hulk being subjected to damage and pain doesn't revert him back to Banner. That's the exact opposite of what happens, unless he's knocked out. To make the interpretation that Hulk crashed and all that pain somehow calmed him down and turned him into Banner is solely based on what you want to have happened, because of what you want it to say about the character, rather than what the available information says.

Or can you give me any example of where Hulk clearly reverts to Banner from physical pain? Just one, to go against all the cases where pain just makes him angrier.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The problem with analyzing a tiny detail like this to try to make some definitive statement is the writers likely didn't put this much thought into it.

They did it because it worked for the story they were telling and it was a couple lines in a script. They didn't stop and do the detailed analysis everybody here is doing.

 

[Zarex]

The biggest issue limiting Hulk's strength level in the MCU is Universal holding the distribution rights. If Marvel Studios could launch a Hulk movie trilogy without their involvement the big green guy would get powered up in a big way.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

The problem with analyzing a tiny detail like this to try to make some definitive statement is the writers likely didn't put this much thought into it.

They did it because it worked for the story they were telling and it was a couple lines in a script. They didn't stop and do the detailed analysis everybody here is doing.

It still has more to base it on than your wild assumption that the Grandmaster was saving Thor, which I'm pretty sure is not the intent of the director, and it certainly isn't supported by anything we see as Hulk doesn't even look very aggressive when Thor approaches him after the big punch, he just looks taken.

This whole thing is about establishing where the MCU character rank based on what we've seen, not who we want to be the best or what was in the comics.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

The biggest issue limiting Hulk's strength level in the MCU is Universal holding the distribution rights. If Marvel Studios could launch a Hulk movie trilogy without their involvement the big green guy would get powered up in a big way.

I don't think that factors much into it. Hulk got to be a standout in the first Avengers and he's really popular. There's no need to hold him back for the sake of others, he helps bring in fans and they want to give him a real arc over 3 movies. Why would they hold him back more than anyone else?

I'd say that if anything having a solo movie requires you to be beaten up more so there can be any drama to the action. It's easier to have a character seem invincible when he's just a part of a team without hurting the drama as much.

 

[DrCosmic]

^I don't think it's about holding him back, I think it's simply about time to develop him and giving development, which includes power ups, to other characters who are more central to whatever film is in question.

People are using Hulk being knocked out in AOU as some sort of barometer, but are forgetting g the fact that SW's spell made everyone weak when it wore off, yes even Thor. The spell had wore off when Hulk got hit, so like everyone else, he was weaker at this point.

Not a barometer, but a very clear demonstration that he can be knocked out, and so the comic book effect of 'he always just gets stronger' is no longer inevitable. In the MCU if you hit him hard enough, he doesn't get mad, he gets rest. Now I'm sure how hard that is varies, but when we look at him getting dazed in Ragnarok, we have a good ballpark idea, and we see Thor power up well beyond that by the end of the film.

The problem with analyzing a tiny detail like this to try to make some definitive statement is the writers likely didn't put this much thought into it.

Arguing what the writers intended is a black hole. The only thing we all have in common is what is on the screen. If it doesn't make sense, that's one thing, if we just don't like it, that's another.

The biggest issue limiting Hulk's strength level in the MCU is Universal holding the distribution rights. If Marvel Studios could launch a Hulk movie trilogy without their involvement the big green guy would get powered up in a big way.

I actually agree with this. If Hulk had had 3 solo films his feats would be an entirely ENTIRELY different animal than what we have here where he is a supporting character.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It still has more to base it on than your wild assumption that the Grandmaster was saving Thor,

I never said the Grandmaster was saving Thor.

The Grandmaster thought he was saving his champion. But I believe he ended up saving Thor because if he hadn't, I think we would have seen what we (and the Grandmaster) haven't seen yet. A truly enraged Hulk.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I actually think this question is clearly answered by one of the classic moments in the film.

When Bruce asks who won and Thor tells him he won easily, Bruce says that doesn't sound right and we laugh.

Why do we laugh?

Because Thor knows and Bruce knows and the director knows and the audience knows that in an unrestricted fight, Hulk would win.

If we assume Thor would win, that moment is no longer funny.

 

[DrCosmic]

When Bruce asks who won and Thor tells him he won easily, Bruce says that doesn't sound right and we laugh.

Why do we laugh?

Because it's true to character for him to say and its not true. He did not win the fight and it was not easy. Therefore it's funny. It's still funny to everyone who believes Thor from the end of the movie would beat Hulk. Banner knowing Hulk is not easy to beat doesn't change what we see in terms of power from these characters, which invalidates both Thor, Banner and the Quinjet computer's outdated perceptions of their relative power.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It still has more to base it on than your wild assumption that the Grandmaster was saving Thor, which I'm pretty sure is not the intent of the director, and it certainly isn't supported by anything we see as Hulk doesn't even look very aggressive when Thor approaches him after the big punch, he just looks taken.

This whole thing is about establishing where the MCU character rank based on what we've seen, not who we want to be the best or what was in the comics.

Nothing to do with the comics or who I want to be the best, we don't know own the full details of the fall, Hulk might have been calmed down enough when he landed that when he did get hurt he was dazed for a while and this is when he reverts to Banner who loses consciousness.

Or Hulk had calmed down enough by the time he hit the ground it did indeed knock him out. Either way, using it to say Thor is tougher is nonsensical. You could easily argue it the other way and say Hulk hit several floors of solid concrete when he landed where as Thor landed in a field.

For me Thor is more powerful and durable than a baseline Hulk. So if that Hulk hit the ground it could have knocked him out.

At the same time, we could easily say Hulk took jet machine gun fire and laser blasts full on in TA, while Thor was seen as dodging/diving out the way of both. Same with the Quinjet fire in AOU. You could say Ultron took down Thor in AOU (I personally think Thor was playing along with Visions plan, but I have seen others argue Ultron beat the crap out of Thor) yet in both encounters Hulk had with Ultron in the finale Hulk made quick work of him.

See where I am going here? We could argue these little details all day.

 

[Mjölnir]

I actually think this question is clearly answered by one of the classic moments in the film.

When Bruce asks who won and Thor tells him he won easily, Bruce says that doesn't sound right and we laugh.

Why do we laugh?

We laugh because Thor is lying and it's playing on his and Hulk's friendly and petty rivalry. Thor didn't win because the legit fight was interrupted by the Grandmaster's cheating, and the fight certainly wasn't easy.

It's not intended to be because anyone would think that Hulk was about to win since the scene didn't play towards that in any way whatsoever.

Because Thor knows and Bruce knows and the director knows and the audience knows that in an unrestricted fight, Hulk would win.

No, that's just wrong. I haven't seen anywhere where the majority haven't thought that Thor was about to win, and this poll is one example (one of the more favorable towards Hulk that I've seen, actually), so your statement about the audience is wrong.

The director clearly made the scene run towards a likely Thor win before he's stopped by cheating, and he's said that he used the obedience disk on Thor to depower him and make it believable that he could lose a fight. Those are not actions or statements in favor of Hulk at all, so you're wrong on that account as well.

What we got was an unrestricted fight until the Grandmaster cheated. Or well, Thor restricted himself a bit in the beginning since he didn't want to fight his friend, but he eventually started to go hard.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

Nothing to do with the comics or who I want to be the best, we don't know own the full details of the fall, Hulk might have been calmed down enough when he landed that when he did get hurt he was dazed for a while and this is when he reverts to Banner who loses consciousness.

Or Hulk had calmed down enough by the time he hit the ground it did indeed knock him out. Either way, using it to say Thor is tougher is nonsensical. You could easily argue it the other way and say Hulk hit several floors of solid concrete when he landed where as Thor landed in a field.

For me Thor is more powerful and durable than a baseline Hulk. So if that Hulk hit the ground it could have knocked him out.

At the same time, we could easily say Hulk took jet machine gun fire and laser blasts full on in TA, while Thor was seen as dodging/diving out the way of both. Same with the Quinjet fire in AOU. You could say Ultron took down Thor in AOU (I personally think Thor was playing along with Visions plan, but I have seen others argue Ultron beat the crap out of Thor) yet in both encounters Hulk had with Ultron in the finale Hulk made quick work of him.

See where I am going here? We could argue these little details all day.

Hulk inevitably crashes so regardless of how calm he is when he hits the ground he'll be in a ton of pain if he isn't knocked out. Again, show me at least one instance of Hulk reverting back to Banner when being exposed to large amounts of physical pain. I can make a long list for you of when the opposite happens, plus my statement is in line with how his powers are described.

If you can't show any example of Hulk taking a lot of pain and calming down from it I don't see any legit interpretation saying that Hulk wasn't knocked out. Then it's just wishful thinking.

I'm comparing two cases of the same thing, in the same movie, so I'm being very fair here. What the surface is that they land on is of little importance. If you fall at terminal velocity it doesn't matter if you land in water, you'll not push the water aside fast enough for that to matter so it will be a hard crash anyway. Actually, if we're talking such things then Hulk crashing through the roof actually helps dampen his fall. Of course it's not to a relevant degree, but it's a more significant factor than the surfaces they land on if we're talking physics.

Your examples don't have the characters doing the same thing so you're making false equivalences to my example.

 

[BigThor]

At the same time, we could easily say Hulk took jet machine gun fire and laser blasts full on in TA, while Thor was seen as dodging/diving out the way of both. Same with the Quinjet fire in AOU. You could say Ultron took down Thor in AOU (I personally think Thor was playing along with Visions plan, but I have seen others argue Ultron beat the crap out of Thor) yet in both encounters Hulk had with Ultron in the finale Hulk made quick work of him.

To be fair, Hulk on fought Ultron after he had been heavily damaged by Vision, Thor, and Iron Man's synchronized blasts. So him making quick work of a badly damaged opponent already near defeat doesn't really mean much.

And also Thor dodging gunfire while Hulk didn't also doesn't mean one is weaker than the other. One is a just a trained warrior who dodges out of instinct and the other was a raging monster with zero training (at the time).