MCU X-Men - Part 1

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I guess the assumption was always that Singer was reining in the campy comicbooky elements after Batman & Robin because he deemed it necessary and I wouldn't have considered that he might have outright disliked that side of it. Possible of course. For me I know I want the heroes to look as good as possible and I leave the job of justifying it to the filmmakers. I don't want them to fail on that front and give me a muted costume because they couldn't find a good enough reason to justify what I want to see. If it came to it I'd rather extend my suspension of disbelief to accommodate a good look, a personal choice of course which I'm sure many don't share.

I get that. I don't think the wings look particularly 'good' or even 'cool.' They certainly don't look good on anyone else's uniform. It's a really weird whimsical design, and odd even moreso because Wolverine is someone who routinely rejects whimsy, and that's part of his appeal.

That said, I don't know that it's ever really impossible to justify a costume. I mean, you spitballed into something really epic for Wolverine off the top of your head. It's just a matter of do you put time into developing your character or not. After all, the is a real life reason that Wolverine has those. When they were first put on in comics, it wasn't to match anything before, it was a new idea, that made sense in some context and caught on for a reason.
 
Wolverine's mask is awesome idk what you're talking about!
 
I get that. I don't think the wings look particularly 'good' or even 'cool.' They certainly don't look good on anyone else's uniform. It's a really weird whimsical design, and odd even moreso because Wolverine is someone who routinely rejects whimsy, and that's part of his appeal.

That said, I don't know that it's ever really impossible to justify a costume. I mean, you spitballed into something really epic for Wolverine off the top of your head. It's just a matter of do you put time into developing your character or not. After all, the is a real life reason that Wolverine has those. When they were first put on in comics, it wasn't to match anything before, it was a new idea, that made sense in some context and caught on for a reason.


If you were to let an animal dress itself, It'd make some equally odd choices.
The problem here is that you look at Wolverine as a man.
 
I won't deny Wolverine's mask is awesome, but I think it's only because Wolverine is awesome and I associate the mask with the character. Put the mask literally ANYWHERE else and it looks ugly.

If you were to let an animal dress itself, It'd make some equally odd choices.
The problem here is that you look at Wolverine as a man.

You are right, I indeed may have erred here.

That said, I do actually let animals dress themselves, and while their choices are not to my liking, they do make a great deal of sense when I sit and think about it. :oldrazz:
 
I mean I guess you could say it's some sort of tribal thing representing the martial arts school of his sensei Ogun.

I think this is the best idea. Maybe Ogun gives it to Wolverine as a gift (it represents what you are... a wolverine) and he wears it as a tribute and because it reflects what he wants to be viewed as when he's in combat.
 
I use to think that it was the mask that caused the pointy hair lol

especially watching TAS as a kid

As a kid I was the opposite. I figured a round mask would feel tight on him due to the hair so Professor X adjusted it for the comfort. Damn, it's interesting how everyone's imagination fills in the little gaps differently.

I also think years of seeing Hugh Jackman without a costume set up that hair as being the default for me, so I figured the hair came first. lol
 
I'd rather Wolverine stay away from the Last Samurai stuff. Imagine Samurai Wolverine and Psylocke on the same team...
 
Wolverine had an entire mini-series where he went to Japan. He tried to marry a Japanese woman. Claremont likened Wolverine to a failed samurai. Its not like it would be a drastic change to his character to tie the look of his mask to something that has Japanese origins. All we need is some kind of character explanation for the mask so he could wear it and not have it come out of nowhere.
 
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The thing is, Marvel Studios rarely allow their heroes to wear face-concealing headgear unless it's absolutely necessary; I doubt with Wolverine it'll be any different.
 
The thing is, Marvel Studios rarely allow their heroes to wear face-concealing headgear unless it's absolutely necessary; I doubt with Wolverine it'll be any different.
So you think they won't let Logan wear the iconic mask when he's gone SIX movies without wearing it? When fans have been begging for a decade now to see him wear the suit? No way that happens.
 
I'd rather Wolverine stay away from the Last Samurai stuff. Imagine Samurai Wolverine and Psylocke on the same team...

Psylocke wasn't born Asian. She comes from a British family and was born caucasian.

latest
 
I get that. I don't think the wings look particularly 'good' or even 'cool.' They certainly don't look good on anyone else's uniform. It's a really weird whimsical design, and odd even moreso because Wolverine is someone who routinely rejects whimsy, and that's part of his appeal.

That said, I don't know that it's ever really impossible to justify a costume. I mean, you spitballed into something really epic for Wolverine off the top of your head. It's just a matter of do you put time into developing your character or not. After all, the is a real life reason that Wolverine has those. When they were first put on in comics, it wasn't to match anything before, it was a new idea, that made sense in some context and caught on for a reason.

So, I've been following along with what you guys have been saying for the last couple of pages, but I'm curious what you mean by "justify"? I don't want to put words in your mouth (especially because we agree on the costume point, it seems), but when I first read that part, it just sounded a bit... Singeresque. Again, not saying I necessarily disagree, just want to know where you're coming from.

Perhaps not needed, but an opportunity for better story, and fuller world and meaningful visuals. For me, the fact that MCU characters' costumes make sense for them as characters makes them, their costumes, and the story better. We could just make Iron Man red and gold, just because that's his uniform, a random detail that neither Tony nor the audience care about OR would could have a shot of Tony looking at his car and telling JARVIS "throw a little fire engine red in there" and thereby connect Iron Man's look with Tony's personality and character, making both more meaningful. They can make every superhero appearance going forward meaningless beyond being easter eggs and the MCU will not fail, but... why would they want to do that?



Captain America's uniforms have all been made for in-story purpose. None of them have been Black leather, and if the purpose is entertainment, Cap's uniform storylines have been far more entertaining than if he'd just had the blue mail from WWII in all his appearances. In fact, the only character to suffer this 'fate' is Hawkeye, and that's only because he doesn't have his circus storyline, and even still, he's got a little purple and flair. Singer's costumes are not borne of purpose, but of a clear disdain for superhero costumes, disguised as a need for utility when really it's an overwrought need to be taken seriously and seen as 'mature.'



Of course we can. I'm just thinking: what if his mask doesn't have to be nonsense? Every other comic costume gets to make sense in the MCU, why not Wolverine too?

You've got great ideas for it too. Like, what if it was his datemono (Samurai helmet crest) and Xavier or Scott or Jean incorporated this faded distant memory into his gear? That sounds a lot more badass to me than 'just like the comics.'



Haha! I think it is. Wouldn't want to mess up his 'do!


Overall, I think part of the story should be about the X-Men not wearing their uniforms, which by definition, they don't. Rogue walks around in skintight green and yellow and a bomber jacket, because that's her style, and she has no need for armor. Storm is in an all white pantsuit because that's how she carries herself. Gambit has some stolen body armor under his trench coat. Cyclops is pretty much the only person who wears the so called uniform, outside of students/trainees and Wolverine with a color-inverted version with his samurai crest on it. Jean doesn't wear a uniform, she just happens to have a green miniskirt on. Beast doesn't wear a uniform, just some underwear and his blue fur. Angel is a billionaire, so he makes his own custom suit because he's his own vigilante. Iceman wears the uniform, but you don't ever see it because he's ice. Bishop wears some scrounged up stuff from the future. Psylocke wears her ninja gear. Sunfire wears his country's custom outfit. Nightcrawler is in his circus gear for nostalgia, and Colossus... is... I dunno what Colossus is wearing. Regardless, neither one of them have any reason to wear armor. Like the Avengers, let each of their costumes come with its own story, and have fun with the fact that none of them are any more likely to wear body armor or a uniform than Black Widow and Scarlet Witch.

Now I get it... by "make sense", you mean providing some sort of backstory or basis or context or greater connection to the world, not the "make sense" of the bygone Singer era of foaming at the mouth and convulsing if the costumes weren't "tactical gear" :rolleyes: that could fit into the real (our) world. That I can definitely get behind!
 
I think this is the best idea. Maybe Ogun gives it to Wolverine as a gift (it represents what you are... a wolverine) and he wears it as a tribute and because it reflects what he wants to be viewed as when he's in combat.

LOL. I don't think they have Wolverines in Japan. His original costume(s) in the comics probably came from Department H in Canada hence his affiliation with Alpha Flight. That's who he was working for right before he joined the X-Men in the comics. He left department H because of his attraction to Heather Hudson, who was married to James Hudson, who he also saw as a friend. But department H called him Wolverine because of his claws, his small but fierce demeanor, and like wolverines are native to Northern Canada.

So maybe we can workshop this a bit. Maybe Ogun wants to give him his own ornamental mask like his own. So he decides to fashion one inspired by a Wolverine because it's native to Logan's ancestral home...or...eh? I dunno. Best I could come up with. Or you can just say the mask is inspired by some ancient, FICTIONAL, Japanese yokai that Logan will represent in battle.
 
LOL. I don't think they have Wolverines in Japan. His original costume(s) in the comics probably came from Department H in Canada hence his affiliation with Alpha Flight. That's who he was working for right before he joined the X-Men in the comics. He left department H because of his attraction to Heather Hudson, who was married to James Hudson, who he also saw as a friend. But department H called him Wolverine because of his claws, his small but fierce demeanor, and like wolverines are native to Northern Canada.

So maybe we can workshop this a bit. Maybe Ogun wants to give him his own ornamental mask like his own. So he decides to fashion one inspired by a Wolverine because it's native to Logan's ancestral home...or...eh? I dunno. Best I could come up with. Or you can just say the mask is inspired by some ancient, FICTIONAL, Japanese yokai that Logan will represent in battle.

I like the idea of Wolverine being part of Alpha Flight before he joins X-Men, and that is where he develops the Wolverine persona (complete with mask and outfit). Maybe he woke up after the Weapon X program in the late 90's and he's had twenty years to build a life for himself so he has a lot of experience before he joins the X-Men.
 
I'm thinking that Feige and company should dump Xavier for the reboot. He's either dead, missing or off planet. Introduce Scott and Jean as the heads of Xavier's school and team leaders of the X-Men. They were among the First Class, but the other members went "bad" and forced the school to shut down. Scott and Jean, now married, are bringing it back. My team:

Jean Grey: Director of the X-Men and Headmistress of Xavier's School. Introduced in the MCU X-Men film. Married to Scott Summers.

Scott Summers: Field leader of the X-Men and Assistant Headmaster to Xavier's School. Introduced in the MCU X-Men film. Married to Jean Grey.

Warren Worthington: Young mutant working (and failing) as a street vigilante (ala the original Timely Thomas Halloway version). Introduced in the MCU X-Men film.

Bobby Drake: Midtown student introduced in a Spider-man sequel. One of Peter's Amazing Friends.

Angelica Jones: Midtown student introduced in a Spider-man sequel. One of Peter's Amazing Friends.

Ororo Monroe: Kenyan Weather Goddess introduced in a Black Panther sequel.

Hank McCoy: Genius scientist (AIM? SHIELD? STARK? PYM?) introduced in an Avengers sequel. Adopts his blue and fuzzy form in a heroic, desperation move.

Logan : Member of Alpha Flight introduced in solo film Weapon X, featuring the Hulk.
 
Dump Charles? In the very first movie?? :dry:
 
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I'm thinking that Feige and company should dump Xavier for the reboot. He's either dead, missing or off planet. Introduce Scott and Jean as the heads of Xavier's school and team leaders of the X-Men. They were among the First Class, but the other members went "bad" and forced the school to shut down. Scott and Jean, now married, are bringing it back. My team:

Jean Grey: Director of the X-Men and Headmistress of Xavier's School. Introduced in the MCU X-Men film. Married to Scott Summers.

Scott Summers: Field leader of the X-Men and Assistant Headmaster to Xavier's School. Introduced in the MCU X-Men film. Married to Jean Grey.

Warren Worthington: Young mutant working (and failing) as a street vigilante (ala the original Timely Thomas Halloway version). Introduced in the MCU X-Men film.

Bobby Drake: Midtown student introduced in a Spider-man sequel. One of Peter's Amazing Friends.

Angelica Jones: Midtown student introduced in a Spider-man sequel. One of Peter's Amazing Friends.

Ororo Monroe: Kenyan Weather Goddess introduced in a Black Panther sequel.

Hank McCoy: Genius scientist (AIM? SHIELD? STARK? PYM?) introduced in an Avengers sequel. Adopts his blue and fuzzy form in a heroic, desperation move.

Logan : Member of Alpha Flight introduced in solo film Weapon X, featuring the Hulk.
I like all the alternative intros. :up:
 
I don't know about dumping Charles. I do like the idea of him giving the mutants he already knows responsibilities though that help support the main characters of the movie.

I think we'll have a clearer idea come next month, but I don't think the BP series will have 'room' for Storm in the way we seem to talk about. He already has a vested love interest. I don't think tossing Lupita's Nakia to the side for some non-classic comic book relationship is a good idea, especially because some people (who are clearly wrong) think of BP-Storm as forced or a stunt. Extra complication because BP and Storm would have a significant age difference.

I think it may be simplest to simply have Charles be the one introduced in a different film, and then he introduces us to the X-Men in X-Men: Homecoming.

LOL. I don't think they have Wolverines in Japan. His original costume(s) in the comics probably came from Department H in Canada hence his affiliation with Alpha Flight. That's who he was working for right before he joined the X-Men in the comics. He left department H because of his attraction to Heather Hudson, who was married to James Hudson, who he also saw as a friend. But department H called him Wolverine because of his claws, his small but fierce demeanor, and like wolverines are native to Northern Canada.

So maybe we can workshop this a bit. Maybe Ogun wants to give him his own ornamental mask like his own. So he decides to fashion one inspired by a Wolverine because it's native to Logan's ancestral home...or...eh? I dunno. Best I could come up with. Or you can just say the mask is inspired by some ancient, FICTIONAL, Japanese yokai that Logan will represent in battle.

Boom, I definitely wouldn't expect them to use a real Samurai house or anything. I think the Samurai thing being adapted/filtered by Department H into a wolverine could be really cool. Really like the Alpha Flight set up for Wolvie overall. Grounding Wolverine as Canadian could be a really cool bit of cultural texture and international flavor.
 
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I don't know about dumping Charles. I do like the idea of him giving the mutants he already knows responsibilities though that help support the main characters of the movie.

My thinking is the only way we're going to "grow up" Scott and Jean is by removing Charles. Put Scott in full control of the team in the field and have Jean take over much of Xavier's recruiting, teaching and administrative duties. Have Scott and Jean debate about whether the school should primarily be for intellectual enrichment or military training. It would be a definite change from Charles' omnipresence in the movies and more like the comics in which he has a much spottier attendance record.


I think we'll have a clearer idea come next month, but I don't think the BP series will have 'room' for Storm in the way we seem to talk about. He already has a vested love interest. I don't think tossing Lupita's Nakia to the side for some non-classic comic book relationship is a good idea, especially because some people (who are clearly wrong) think of BP-Storm as forced or a stunt. Extra complication because BP and Storm would have a significant age difference.

I never liked the idea of Marvel's only two major African heroes being in a romantic relationship. It reminds me of white kids trying to fix up the two black kids in a predominately white school back in the day. I was thinking of a child version of Storm weaponized by a rival clan, or perhaps just a cameo. But not a girlfriend for T'Challa.
 
I would love to see Marvel pull a Judy Dench and recast McAvoy as Xavier.

I don't think McAvoy just nailed Xavier, I think he improved on him. He carried the presence and experience I would expect from Xavier, but also gave him a fun quirky side. I had professors like that myself and from my experience, they have better communication with their students. I feel I would be more open with McAvoy's version than with any other one.

He's also the first Xavier to carry his own movie. Not once during DOFP did I think "Ugh, why are we focusing on Xavier and not on the X-Men?" That's because despite traditionally being more of a supporting character, McAvoy made him work as a protagonist to the point I didn't care. In a world where they couldn't turn actual X-Men like Wolverine into main MC without causing backlash, and just three years before hermit Luke Skywalker abandoning his principles caused uproar. But Singer somehow managed to avoid both of those controversies, and a lot of that I think is thanks to McAvoy.

So yeah, would love it if they do it. They most definitely won't do it, though. Sucks. Understandable, but still sucks. :csad:
 
My thinking is the only way we're going to "grow up" Scott and Jean is by removing Charles. Put Scott in full control of the team in the field and have Jean take over much of Xavier's recruiting, teaching and administrative duties. Have Scott and Jean debate about whether the school should primarily be for intellectual enrichment or military training. It would be a definite change from Charles' omnipresence in the movies and more like the comics in which he has a much spottier attendance record.

I get it, but that goes into the whole discussion of the previous thread about what you lose by skipping the development of these characters, the way X1 did, the way SMHC did not.

I definitely would love to see Scott and Jean more vocal, and in a conflict, and having important responsibilities, but I would love to see that transition occur. I think that could be really cool, and even fresher than just skipping to the end of their arcs.

I never liked the idea of Marvel's only two major African heroes being in a romantic relationship. It reminds me of white kids trying to fix up the two black kids in a predominately white school back in the day. I was thinking of a child version of Storm weaponized by a rival clan, or perhaps just a cameo. But not a girlfriend for T'Challa.

I get that too, however, it turns out that they actually do have all the things in common that the white kids imagined the Black kids did, perhaps because they are creations of some of those same White kids, and not actual Black people with diverse backgrounds. After all, what does it say that the biggest Black Marvel heroes are both from similar regions in Africa? A heck of a coincidence.
 
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