Michael B Jordan is "Flame On!" The Human Torch - Part 2

[Dark Raven]

From people's reviews, it seems that MBJ didn't really display much of the traditional brash characteristics of Johnny Storm. So he clearly wasn't the best actor for the job who embodied the role the most. And of course he wasn't, because he was just given the part by his BFF Trank.

 

[Lencho01]

How can you come to that conclusion if the character wasn't written to have the traditional brash characteristics?

 

[Dark Raven]

How can you come to that conclusion if the character wasn't written to have the traditional brash characteristics?

Yeah now you may say that, but when he was initially cast and for all this time until the film's release, people have always argued that he has all the typical characteristics of what you'd expect in a traditional Johnny, just that he's not white. But now people change their tune.

 

[The Guard]

He does have the ability to be cocky. But this movie's Johnny was a lot less in your face cocky than Evans' version. Johnnys story in this movie is about finding something of real value beyond his immature exploits...whereas Evans Storm treated it as a big laugh until the end of ROTSS.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Michael would've been a better fit for Ben

 

[DarKush]

From people's reviews, it seems that MBJ didn't really display much of the traditional brash characteristics of Johnny Storm. So he clearly wasn't the best actor for the job who embodied the role the most. And of course he wasn't, because he was just given the part by his BFF Trank.

I've seen the film and that's not true.

Spoiler

The way he is introduced shows his brashness, in a drag race in which he gets injured. I think there are traces of brashness or cockiness when he becomes the Human Torch, but there was little for him to do that that's not Jordan's fault. Even Johnny's decision to work with the government against his father's wishes was a sign of rebelliousness on his part.

Chris Evans was given an opportunity at the Human Torch to shine that Jordan was not. Perhaps Jordan didn't display as many 'brash characteristics' because he was working with the script he was given and the direction he was given.

If you just want to say that Jordan wasn't 'qualified' because he's black just say that. When a lot of white directors hire white actors, or favored actors, they are cool with it's generally not a problem, but this gnashing of teeth over Trank hiring Jordan seems to me to be an undercover way to say Jordan's race disqualified him or made him not qualified for the role of Johnny Storm.

Jordan played a Stormesque character in Chronicle and did a very good job. Trank knows him, likes him, obviously trusts him, so why not hire him to play Storm?

 

[DarKush]

Yeah now you may say that, but when he was initially cast and for all this time until the film's release, people have always argued that he has all the typical characteristics of what you'd expect in a traditional Johnny, just that he's not white. But now people change their tune.

I'm one person not changing my tune. I think he did fine with what he was given. Though I personally would've cast him as Reed. I had seen him do a Johnny Storm-like character in Chronicle already, I didn't need to see him take on a similar role again.

 

[The Guard]

It's there, it's just more subtle.

 

[DarKush]

He does have the ability to be cocky. But this movie's Johnny was a lot less in your face cocky than Evans' version. Johnnys story in this movie is about finding something of real value beyond his immature exploits...whereas Evans Storm treated it as a big laugh until the end of ROTSS.

Good description of Jordan's Storm.

 

[Nathan]

Saw a comment somewhere that said the whole casting of MBJ as Johnny, felt more like a PC move than actually casting the best person for the job. Like we can't have an all white family, because nowadays many families are interracial, so lets get a token black guy in here.

He didn't have an audition and got to prove that he's undoubtedly the best person for the job and he just happens to be black. No, he simply got the job because Trank knew him. And I think that's really the biggest problem. And the funny irony is, they cast him because he's supposedly the perfect Johnny, but the character wasn't written to be Johnny from the comics. He's as lifeless as the rest as the Movie from what I've been reading.

 

[Lencho01]

Yeah now you may say that, but when he was initially cast and for all this time until the film's release, people have always argued that he has all the typical characteristics of what you'd expect in a traditional Johnny, just that he's not white. But now people change their tune.

And they were right. He does have those characteristics. It can be seen in his previous work. Why Trank didn't write/direct Jordan to be as such or close to Evans? Because he didn't want to, I assume.

Same goes for the rest of the actors. I've seen no reviews put any sort of blame or hate towards them and their abilities.

 

[Lencho01]

Saw a comment somewhere that said the whole casting of MBJ as Johnny, felt more like a PC move than actually casting the best person for the job. Like we can't have an all white family, because nowadays many families are interracial, so lets get a token black guy in here.

He didn't have an audition and got to prove that he's undoubtedly the best person for the job and he just happens to be black. No, he simply got the job because Trank knew him. And I think that's really the biggest problem. And the funny irony is, they cast him because he's supposedly the perfect Johnny, but the character wasn't written to be Johnny from the comics. He's as lifeless as the rest as the Movie from what I've been reading.

So, it wouldn't have mattered if he was played by a White actor.

 

[Nathan]

I think all the characters could have been played by Oscar winners, and it wouldn't have mattered with the Movie's script and direction.

 

[DarKush]

Saw a comment somewhere that said the whole casting of MBJ as Johnny, felt more like a PC move than actually casting the best person for the job. Like we can't have an all white family, because nowadays many families are interracial, so lets get a token black guy in here.

He didn't have an audition and got to prove that he's undoubtedly the best person for the job and he just happens to be black. No, he simply got the job because Trank knew him. And I think that's really the biggest problem. And the funny irony is, they cast him because he's supposedly the perfect Johnny, but the character wasn't written to be Johnny from the comics. He's as lifeless as the rest as the Movie from what I've been reading.

Lencho make some good points. But why would Jordan have to audition if Trank knew what he could do already? I think there's this insinuation that because he's black he's not qualified and that a white actor-because lets be real if it was another non-white actor there would be anger and whining from some fanboys too but maybe not as much animus as a black casting-is more qualified period. I think in the general US society blacks are viewed with more suspicion so it should be no different in Hollywood.

Now the token thing I do have concerns about. I do think its too easy to just colorize a previously white character and plop them into a story than to create or bring in a black or other non-white character, develop them, and make them important parts of teams. Though if that happened I'm sure some fanboys would whine about that too, and more PC running amok.

Though within the context of the film it was Sue who was adopted into a black family, which sort of muddles the token argument. To me the token might be a black or non-white character grafted onto a largely white cast or tossed in there with little development. Also Dr. Storm played an important part in the film. So there were two important black characters not one. Granted more could've been done and he was often ineffectual, but still he was an important part of the film and Cathey did a good job with him.

 

[Lencho01]

I think all the characters could have been played by Oscar winners, and it wouldn't have mattered with the Movie's script and direction.

That seems to be the case. Could've been Oscar winners who looked like the characters right off the page and it wouldn't have mattered.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Saw a comment somewhere that said the whole casting of MBJ as Johnny, felt more like a PC move than actually casting the best person for the job. Like we can't have an all white family, because nowadays many families are interracial, so lets get a token black guy in here.

He didn't have an audition and got to prove that he's undoubtedly the best person for the job and he just happens to be black. No, he simply got the job because Trank knew him. And I think that's really the biggest problem. And the funny irony is, they cast him because he's supposedly the perfect Johnny, but the character wasn't written to be Johnny from the comics. He's as lifeless as the rest as the Movie from what I've been reading.

There was so much wrong with his casting, it comes off as an annoyance more than a "the best person got the job".

 

[Lencho01]

I don't know why "best person for the job" is ever used as some sort of argument either way. It's not like there is solely one person for any acting job. And directors give roles to people they've worked with in the past without the use of auditions all the time.

 

[The Guard]

Exactly. I've worked with amateurs who would make much better versions of some characters, but that's not the way Hollywood works. It's a business, and as much about who you know as anything else.

 

[Lencho01]

Exactly. I've worked with amateurs who would make much better versions of some characters, but that's not the way Hollywood works. It's a business, and as much about who you know as anything else.

As far as superheroes go, the only example I know of is Captain America. They looked at many actors and you know who got the role? The dude who never auditioned for it.

 

[Tony Stark]

Whatever the reason, MBJ sucked in the role, but he wasn't alone. A lot of it was the crappy script, but all of the actors were completely aloof and had no chemistry on screen.

 

[Loki882]

Well the fact that:

Spoiler

Spoiler

They spend a big chunk of the movie apart/

Doesn't help matters.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Well the fact that:

Spoiler

Spoiler

They spend a big chunk of the movie apart/

Doesn't help matters.

So they're basically the Fantastic Few and Far Between from everything I've read.

 

[Loki882]

Calling them "Fantastic" is being, quite generous. But it really isn't the actor's fault, they had NOTHING to work with.

 

[The Infernal]

Didn't like Jordan in the role. He just seemed like he was tired all the time and resentful to be there. Lifeless.

 

[Dark Raven]

Didn't like Jordan in the role. He just seemed like he was tired all the time and resentful to be there. Lifeless.

But of course, it was just written to be that way.